I think you are assuming some sort of gotcha moment here, but I have no idea what you two are talking about.
I am getting the feeling several are not actually reading what is being posted by others here...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I think you are assuming some sort of gotcha moment here, but I have no idea what you two are talking about.
I am getting the feeling several are not actually reading what is being posted by others here...
Just out of curiosity, what exactly is it that you are able to achieve on the chrome book that you can't get done on an iPad? General "office" work can very easily be achieved using iPad in my opinion.
A Chromebook is much closer to a desktop OS than a tablet OS. So you can see the file system, it assumes a keyboard and mouse are always present, etc. Where it runs into issues is the lack of apps, which Google are trying to fill with Android apps. I admittedly have not used one lately so I cannot comment on how good the Android apps are. If you are in the Google world, a Chromebook can definitely be more than sufficient as long as you don't need the traditional pro apps such as Adobe, or a productivity suite like Office (and no Google Docs, etc are not on the same level as Office).
So, yeah, Chromebook are rather good, much better than what they started out as. Having said that, my last Chromebook was an Asus that was a "2 in 1" and while it was perfectly acceptable as a laptop, it was garbage as a tablet. Classic case of a desktop UI with touch slapped on leading to a less than great experience. I would never use the touch on a regular basis on that particular iteration.
Which is one of my main arguments against mouse support on iOS. You can't just slap it on. It has to be thought out thoroughly and supported properly, otherwise it is a feature that won't get used while introducing complexity and confusion.
I guess you don't EVER work on an Excel spreadsheet. Trying to edit Excel with a finger is "cave man" stuff. IF the iPad had mouse support, you wouldn't have to use it and DRAG your 2oz mouse along.
It's been said many times before, but once again, Apple WON'T add mouse support to the iPad because it would take away big money sales to their MacBook, MacBook Pro and other Apple laptops.
I recently bought a MS Surface Pro 4 for traveling which I wouldn't have bought if my iPad had mouse support. I almost bought a MacBook for this purpose (traveling), but the Surface was $350 less than the MacBook. While I'm still an Apple guy, IMO the Surface Pro 4 is a great laptop. Same weight as the MacBook and I think a better keyboard to boot.
OH, and it has mouse support.
I don't think that Apple makes all that much more money from a macOS device than an iPad Pro. I honestly don't know, but I suspect they are either close, or the iPad is better.
As for your Excel comment. Most people actually don't use Excel. And those that do know that the version on the iPad has far more problems than the lack of mouse support. If am using Excel for significant data entry or calculation, I am using it on macOS or Windows, and mouse support is the least of my reasons why.
And of course the Surface has mouse support. It is a desktop OS. iOS is inherently a mobile, touch first OS. That is the point to this whole argument. The Surface is a very compelling product with a very different approach. Where Apple approaches this from the left, MS is approaching from the right.
I can define it pretty easily for you.
A 2in1 Chromebook is mainly a light, secure laptop, that can turn into a tablet for casual use. It's mainly a laptop that can also be a tablet. It was not designed to be a tablet first and then a laptop. It's for people who prefer a laptop that can be a tablet.
An iPad is a tablet first, and now apple is trying to convince people it can replace a laptop. The iPad is a touch only device (for now). The Chromebook is a point first AND touch device.
Google has worked a lot on the interface of the OS in the last year and it is totally touch friendly today.
Also, when comparing one to another, please don't go ahead and compare a $299 Chromebook with a $1000 tablet. Get the best Chromebook money can buy and compare it with the best tablet money can buy (the iPad). From my experience with both devices I prefer the Chromebook approach more because it fits MY needs. I need more of a light laptop that I can turn into a tablet now and then. Android apps runs mostly great (especially those who target Nougat API's). They work great with touch and a mouse and keyboard. But like everything Google, it's not as polished and some things can be rough around the edges.
Having a full blown browser + mobile apps on one device is a great combination and it works very well with keyboard + mouse + touch + stylus.
It's a laptop + tablet that you can also plug in and power two monitors while at a desk. I'd love to see Apple implement this on the iPad.
As I stated before, I also have both new iPad Pro's (and an iPhone and a MacBook) and they are fantastic tablets and devices. Google will never reach the level of polish Apple has with its products but as soon as I actually tried to use the iPad pro for actual productivity and get regularl office work done, this polish feeling vanished very quickly because I had to reach out and touch the screen for every little thing.
Just think about , every mouse click, every single one - requires you to touch the screen.
We click our mouse about 100+ times per hour, if not a lot more. Having to reach out to touch the screen 100+ each hour, on a 12.9'' display...i'm sorry but the arm pain this has caused is significant. The iPad can never be a true, comfortable device that people can work for long periods as long as it won't have a proper pointing device. These devices were invented for a reason, which is mostly ergonomic to the human body. There is no need to try and re-invent the wheel here. I'm sure Apple will figure it out, probably in the form of a trackpad that can mimic all the gestures we do on the iPad screen.
Touch is great for devices we hold in our hands. When you take such a device and dock it to a keyboard with the intention of working with it on a desk, it must be combined with a mouse/keyboard for comfortable use.
clubtech, I'm not going to quote you due to the size, but I think you way misread what I was saying. I actually think we are in agreement overall. I wasn't bashing Chromebooks. I was trying to answer another user's question of what you can do with a Chromebook that you can't on an iPad.
In my view, a Chromebook and iPad approach the same problem from two different sides. As you said, a Chromebook is a laptop first, tablet second while an iPad is the reverse. Both are excellent at the primary focus and compromised on their secondary, as would be expected. If I needed to type a lot, was using the device on a desk more often than not, needed multiple windows, then I would grab a laptop (possibly a Chromebook, though never in the $1000 iteration, I see no reason to ever go that direction). If I am going to be super mobile, am going to be in a variety of locations, don't have to type a ton, and don't need a bunch of windows at this moment, I am grabbing the iPad. If I could only afford one, then I would take an inventory for my needs.
In my view, a Chromebook and iPad approach the same problem from two different sides. As you said, a Chromebook is a laptop first, tablet second while an iPad is the reverse. Both are excellent at the primary focus and compromised on their secondary, as would be expected. If I needed to type a lot, was using the device on a desk more often than not, needed multiple windows, then I would grab a laptop (possibly a Chromebook, though never in the $1000 iteration, I see no reason to ever go that direction). If I am going to be super mobile, am going to be in a variety of locations, don't have to type a ton, and don't need a bunch of windows at this moment, I am grabbing the iPad. If I could only afford one, then I would take an inventory for my needs.
When I work on a spreadsheet, which I do regularly, I use a desktop computer with a large screen. A mouse wouldn't make the difference.
It would if on the go with a 12.9 iPad. Smart keyboard, and mouse would work perfectly.
A particular use case of interest to me would be the ability to use a mouse with the Adobe Lightroom app. I need a mouse to select manipulate within an image - a finger is too hamfisted and because I have essential tremors, I am unable to use a pencil or stylus. So today I use a desktop or, on the road, a laptop. I recognize this is a special case but for me and others similarly afflicted, a pencil is useless, even for writing. But a mouse I can have a better grip on and hold it tightly against a surface to control movement. (Something to think about as you get older ...)
I even thought about this when watching a demo video of Affinity Designer for the iPad from one of the developers himself..
Even he was struggling to select a specific element with his finger that he wanted to manipulate. The precision of a mouse/trackpad would be most welcome (optionally) in many different contexts on the iPad.
Even he was struggling to select a specific element with his finger that he wanted to manipulate. The precision of a mouse/trackpad would be most welcome (optionally) in many different contexts on the iPad.
THIS. Please, Apple, take note. I have had essential tremor since my teens, and without a mouse, control of the iPad, without holding it in my lap, is extremely difficult. I'm continually surprised, with Apple's decades of work on accessibility, that they can't see that for many people, the act of reaching up to the iPad screen when propped up by their keyboard or by a stand, and trying to navigate the controls, is a no-go.
I say this, as someone who uses an iPad for HOURS every day. I love my iPad, have had one since they first came out, but have been wishing for mouse support since day one.
And honestly, I think most of us advocating for some optional mouse support would be absolutely 110% fine with it buried in settings as something you have to very explicitly go seek out and activate (like all the other accessibility options).
Well thats that then: no one doing spreadsheets on ultrabooks or surfaces. Thanks for clarifying.
Nope. No connecting one of those to an external monitor or projecting wirelessly to your TV either. You have to use a *desktop* computer.
I'm sure where you work, there's plenty of money to purchase tablets and external monitors. I work in the public sector, so money is tight and getting tighter.
Nope. No connecting one of those to an external monitor or projecting wirelessly to your TV either. You have to use a *desktop* computer.
A tablet and external monitor can be a lower cost option than a desktop computer, IF the tablet form factor works for you. I can appreciate that in the public sector, ANY new purchase can be difficult to budget.
But this is getting more into a discussion of cost analysis, rather than whether or not using a tablet is feasible for use with a particular kind of work, or if mouse support would be beneficial or not to tablet use.
Right. Which goes back to my original statement. For me, a mouse wouldn't help, because a tablet is just too small for something like Excel.
I think mouse support on productivity apps would be great and definitely a nice addition to iOS. I think it will eventually be supported in Numbers, Pages, etc. and Microsoft Office. It could stop there though. I had a MacBook, but I prefer iOS over macOS. For me, the hardware and hardware is better and a laptop is not very good to use in a collaborative office environment. I also feel that the hardware apple produces in conjunction with the software is a better scenario moving forward. iOS has the brighter future.
They do have the product you are looking for:
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook
It's called a laptop. What is the point of spending Tens of Billions of dollars investing in researching in digital capacitive touchscreens when your users literally just want to attach a mouse to it. It makes zero sense.
Hey, I just spent ten years and almost $100 billion in R&D on the below so we can go back to the computing paradigm we just spent all this money getting away from:
Remember, kids. It's all life, it's just a game. And the sooner you realize that asking for a carburetor for your inline v-8 fuel injection vehicle is not just silly, it's a waste of time.
https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook
It's called a laptop. What is the point of spending Tens of Billions of dollars investing in researching in digital capacitive touchscreens when your users literally just want to attach a mouse to it. It makes zero sense.
Hey, I just spent ten years and almost $100 billion in R&D on the below so we can go back to the computing paradigm we just spent all this money getting away from:
- Developing a 4-5" touchscreen phone/9-12" touchscreen tablet
- Developing multitouch digitization of finger manipulation via capacitive touch
- Enduring months of arguments that caused a huge row in the company over a brand spanking new computing user interface paradigm
- 4k/HDR displays better than have ever been designed or deployed
- Designed and delivered an in-house chipset that yearly rapidly approaches outperformance of clamshell laptops
- Conceived and developed a touchscreen button that can read your fingerprint in 10ms
- Developed a system wide encryption protocol that has the NSA worried
- Releasing a new phone and then two new phones every year on time for ten years straight, while also releasing a new desktop OS every year on time for 8 years straight
- Also conceiving, developing, and releasing BRAND NEW products at a good pace.
- Designed a chip that forced the US Government to spend several million dollars to hack. This chip protects your medical info and credit card info.
- Put a credit card in your phone and convinced every bank that matters to support that system
- Bought a music company and turned it into a service
- Pioneered AI on a mobile device (while also neutering it)
- The 3.5" floppy stopped shipping as a native config in Mac products in 1998. It became an outside accessory that lasted four more years in the PC world before losing its standard as default.
- The headphone jack died in the iPhone last year. This year will cement the decline in Apple and then other manufacturers competing on size until the old fashioned RCA jack slips into the darkness with RCA Video/Stereo Cables/RGB/COAX/ UHF.
- USB-A is on the outs. Microsoft has already made it known they intend to eventually replace the aging standard.
- Disc Drives do not ship on any Microsoft Surface. Nor any laptop not intended for the Enterprise.
- Flash is dead. Adobe is plotting a successor.
- the mouse? I use a trackpad on My mac. But I am increasingly using my iPad and find I am faster without a mouse.
Remember, kids. It's all life, it's just a game. And the sooner you realize that asking for a carburetor for your inline v-8 fuel injection vehicle is not just silly, it's a waste of time.
Yeah... I'll still take the mouse thanks.
LOL, gotta agree with this. I'd be happy to ditch the mouse if there was an ergonomic way I could do things on my iPad while using my ASK, but I haven't seen anything yet.
But still lives in Apple's latest flagship devices
[doublepost=1500328552][/doublepost]
Where are those? iPad screens are not 4K.
Last edited: