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iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
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Apple allows developers to provide blue tooth game controller support in their apps. Why not allow blue tooth mouse support?
https://developer.apple.com/library...meControllerPG/Introduction/Introduction.html
Controllers Must Be Optional on iOS and OS X
Even though controllers are intended to enhance gameplay, not every person who purchases your game is going to own one. Therefore, never require the use of game controllers in your game. If a controller is not available, your game must provide alternative controls.
- When designing an iOS game, use the touchscreen and integrated sensors. Further, when you support the game controller, you may not require the use of the extended controller layout, although you can take advantage of the extended controls when they are available.
- When designing a Mac game, use the keyboard and mouse. Because all standalone controllers provide the extended controller layout, your app can always use the extended controller layout.
- When designing a tvOS game, you may require the use of an MFi game controller, but where possible you should also support the Siri Remote.
you are welcome, maybe that will comfort those worried about mouse support killing the touch screen experience.
They're scared to cannibalize MacBook sales. They need to get over that. They're different form factors.
I wonder how much this comes into play in Apple's decision about this. If there were that scared of it than they would not have released the ASK, would they?
I am thinking too that the ASK is only halfway to a usable productive device and laptop replacement. Without an indirect pointing device it is not fully usable and incomplete, but it maybe gives a hint that it will change sometimes....
I have wondered this myself. I actually have no idea, but I suspect they make more on an iPad Pro than they do a MacBook, but I could be way off base. It just seems like cost of components plus the amount of after sale cost (support, etc) would be higher on the laptop. Then again, R&D is probably costlier on the iPad so who knows. I would guess that the iPad either has better margins, so they would rather you buy that, or the two are very similar, and so whether you buy a MacBook or iPad, Apple doesn't care. I do not think that the laptops make more money for Apple though, so at worst it's a one-to-one swap for them.
There's another aspect to this; Apple and third party software makers benefit more from computer sales than tablet sales. The average app on tablets is probably less than $10, while spending $100 or more on individual apps is common on computers.
That's true, but I imagine they are selling far more <$10 apps on iOS than they are pricier versions on the desktop. Like I said, I could be way off base, but on the surface, it would make sense that iOS hardware is more profitable than macOS hardware.
Let's get down to something very simple. I just got the iPad Pro 10.5 and thought wow, I can use this with the Smart Keyboard and use it for various work related tasked while traveling. Purchased the Smart Keyboard, tried it out... it didn't work!!!! I can't easily do the things I need to do ... without a mouse. It's that simple... Returned the Smart Keyboard... End of story.,.
Different people have some vastly different opinions on this. I really miss a keyboard when I use an ASK on my 12.9 but it really doesn't bother some - more power to them.
Due to the release of the Samsung Chromebook pro and plus, Chromebooks actually are good tablets now because of the introduction of Android apps. That great divide and lack of function still exists in the iPad pro.. I have had no problem with any of the Android apps I run on my Chromebook plus. The device is fast and has everything necessary included...file manager , trackpad, desktop os, Android apps, and a a built in Wacom pen. For the price, value , performance, and the beautiful display quality, it definitely makes you rethink even buying a ipad pro. I have not went back to the iPad pro since it was first released and I don't see myself ever getting one anytime soon. I'm glad the latest chromebooks have closed that gap in my opinion.
If a detachable 2 in 1 Chromebook arrives, it would be unbeatable unless Apple gets mouse support and a real proper file manager, microSD card functionality and the ability to attach other peripherals. With the latest Chromebooks, you have all of these freedoms.
I could not have said it better myself. While I have the Samung Chromebook pro and the iPad pro, I find myself using the Chromebook almost all the time. The iPad is just too frustrating to work with at the current state without mouse or track pad support.
This is what I have been trying to say. I think many of those wanting a mouse want a machine that approaches the idea from the desktop OS side not from the tablet OS side. Which is fine. I don’t think you would ultimately be happy with an iPad with mouse support. I think you all want macOS with touch support and your opinion on the Chromebook is verification of it. Again, that’s cool. Personally, I prefer two separate devices. I like the combo of my MacBook Pro and iPad Pro because I use them for very different things. I am not intending for my iPad to replace anything. It has its own niche that it fills.
The problem one will run into is the quality of apps, depending on what they use their iPad for.
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In light of iOS 11's capabilities, and the 4GB of ram in the pro models, that it is time for a mouse for those that use an iPad for productivity.
All of my iPads have been purely for pleasure and to get me away from the desktop workstations that I use for work. And I would be pretty upset to see iOS move into a more productivity oriented realm, as it would likely diminish the outright simplicity and directness that iOS offers. But consumers, corporate buyers, and developers are going to move on if apple doesn't adapt (or allow their customers to adapt) to market trends. The Microsoft Surface is admittedly an excellent tablet/notebook replacement that many corporations, institutions, and governments are buying in large numbers without apple able to directly address in the marketplace.
You shouldn't have to be forced to use a pointing device if you do not wish to, but it sure would be helpful if I could pop open numbers or excel and whip up a quick table where I can quickly define variables, input parameters, output format, and descriptive statistics, without having to try to get iOS to place the cursor in the right place for a =iferror(vlookup(A:F,n1:n6,0),0), and have it display all of the values in the right formats so that I can hand the file or iPad over to someone else and have them easily and quickly understand what I am calculating. Mouse or trackpad is substantially faster and more accurate for that work. Same goes for any work with multiple copy/pastes.
I'm not going to do the company budget or calculate satellite launch windows. Just let me point the cursor where I want quickly and precisely. It can use the existing apple pointers, or develop a new one. It's not sexy or industrial art. But neither is most work. And power users will still likely buy MacBooks /map.
All of my iPads have been purely for pleasure and to get me away from the desktop workstations that I use for work. And I would be pretty upset to see iOS move into a more productivity oriented realm, as it would likely diminish the outright simplicity and directness that iOS offers. But consumers, corporate buyers, and developers are going to move on if apple doesn't adapt (or allow their customers to adapt) to market trends. The Microsoft Surface is admittedly an excellent tablet/notebook replacement that many corporations, institutions, and governments are buying in large numbers without apple able to directly address in the marketplace.
You shouldn't have to be forced to use a pointing device if you do not wish to, but it sure would be helpful if I could pop open numbers or excel and whip up a quick table where I can quickly define variables, input parameters, output format, and descriptive statistics, without having to try to get iOS to place the cursor in the right place for a =iferror(vlookup(A:F,n1:n6,0),0), and have it display all of the values in the right formats so that I can hand the file or iPad over to someone else and have them easily and quickly understand what I am calculating. Mouse or trackpad is substantially faster and more accurate for that work. Same goes for any work with multiple copy/pastes.
I'm not going to do the company budget or calculate satellite launch windows. Just let me point the cursor where I want quickly and precisely. It can use the existing apple pointers, or develop a new one. It's not sexy or industrial art. But neither is most work. And power users will still likely buy MacBooks /map.
While one or two have made some reference to my overarching defense of keeping a mouse off the iPad. I give up.
Have your mouse.
And then you’ll see what I am trying to say.
You don’t want a mouse on the iPad. You want a touchscreen on your Mac.
Because while iOS works “JUST F’IN DANDY” with a mouse, you’lol eventually tire of the simple GUI and want the full Mac OS X experience.
“APPLE! WHY CAN’T YOU GIVE ME FULL MAC OS ON THE iPAD?! HMMMM IT’D BE SO EASY FOR YOU TO DO IT.”
Yes, it would BE SUPER EASY to enable a cursor on screen. But I do not think you are thinking in portals. Why you would want to keep the overly simplified GUI of iOS with a cursor is beyond me. And it’s beyond you. You’re not thinking beyond getting what you veritably want. What happens after you get that cookie? Will you want a glass of milk?
Really, as an engineer, you are saying you want a touchscreen Mac.
You can wail all you want. But you will inevitably want a richer GUI, richer file system, a true Finder, and the ability to install and use third party apps and ports. Just think through it. You want a touchscreen Mac.
So, let’s agree to disagree.
Just like Apple is. You won’t be getting a mouse. I can guarantee it.
Have your mouse.
And then you’ll see what I am trying to say.
You don’t want a mouse on the iPad. You want a touchscreen on your Mac.
Because while iOS works “JUST F’IN DANDY” with a mouse, you’lol eventually tire of the simple GUI and want the full Mac OS X experience.
“APPLE! WHY CAN’T YOU GIVE ME FULL MAC OS ON THE iPAD?! HMMMM IT’D BE SO EASY FOR YOU TO DO IT.”
Yes, it would BE SUPER EASY to enable a cursor on screen. But I do not think you are thinking in portals. Why you would want to keep the overly simplified GUI of iOS with a cursor is beyond me. And it’s beyond you. You’re not thinking beyond getting what you veritably want. What happens after you get that cookie? Will you want a glass of milk?
Really, as an engineer, you are saying you want a touchscreen Mac.
You can wail all you want. But you will inevitably want a richer GUI, richer file system, a true Finder, and the ability to install and use third party apps and ports. Just think through it. You want a touchscreen Mac.
So, let’s agree to disagree.
Just like Apple is. You won’t be getting a mouse. I can guarantee it.
And I guarantee that you can guarantee nothing. Unless you're now going to tell us you're not just an engineer, but an engineer at Apple. Seriously, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Its really not as complicated as you're making it out to be. Think of all the things that naysayers like you said Apple would never provide over the years and eventually did.
I want a mouse that works with the iPad. For ME it would be very useful. It will come is some form.
I seriously do not understand those against mouse control. If you don't want to use it, DON'T. It would be an OPTIONAL input method. So, you don't like the mouse, you don't use a mouse. Simple.
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I don't think robbietop is disputing whether or not it would be easy. He is saying that it wouldn't be enough. That the next request would be floating windows. And then something else after that. The other misguided argument throughout the thread is the "just don't use it" argument. If it is such a pivotal feature, it seems unlikely that would be a genuine option. Apple won't make it something so small.
Having said that, the idea of a blended iOS/macOS on an iPad is intriguing. However I still think I kind of like my two separate devices that do two different things.
I would love to see mouse capabilities within apps... but I know this isn't likely. I'm ok with it (I'll stick with Jump Desktop and my citrix mouse for now). I do anticipate a drive towards touch and some alternative solution to a mouse. I think because of this, we won't use a traditional mouse in the future. It's growing pains. Apple likes to do that.. take away something old and useful to get people to innovate and come up with something new.
That being said, a hybrid Mac/tablet is exactly what I want. Imagine if that dreaded launch pad on MacOS put your Mac in "tablet mode" and ran just like iOS. Want to do something that involves lots of keyboard and mouse? Attach it to the body of your MBP. Done with that and ready to read in bed? Pull the screen off the MBP and have it enter a "tablet" mode.
I think laptops are slowing becoming a thing of the past. How this will look practically, I don't know yet... who will win out? Microsoft or Apple? My money is still on Apple... but we will see.
No. I just want it to use a mouse for certain apps. I don't disagree that apple won't make that step.
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IMO They are at risk of losing sales to competition, not internally.
That will move them off of worrying about revenue from low end (for apple) laptop buyers.
I ended up getting a Galaxy tab s3 instead of an iPad, this isn't a gloat post because I was agonising over an iPad for ages esp size wise.
I am a long term apple user, typing this on my mac mini which I am happy with but again it hits a nerve when questioning apples decision making regarding upgrades to their devices and what they will allow and not allow users to do.
I am able to simply turn on bluetooth on the s3 tab and connect my magic mouse. An arrow appears on the home screen, so instead of using touch or the stylus I can use the mouse and open Word or Excel and work away comfortably as I have the bluetooth keyboard paired to it as well.
For the life of me I can't understand why apple will not allow me to use apple products with other apple products!
Where is the logic in this that a competitor will allow me to but not apple?
It is very bizarre. as for my purchase I am very happy with it but I will say that I'd have loved the option of a iPad mini with stylus support.
But come on apple let people use their mice.
ps I have an additional sin to commit, I have to give money to google for chromecast or microsoft... for their wireless adapter. this will allow me to view the tablet on my 29" monitor that my mac mini uses.
you can't win!
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Good job on the purchase, I love my tab S3......my ecosystem and devices all integrate with each other and its hard to find a lack of features in any samsung product unlike Apple.
This is a slippery slope fallacy. Even without a mouse some of the things you mention are things people would want. But there is no reason why more functionality can't be turned into something new that works perfectly with a touch screen. Many traditionally desktop app types have already been successfully translated into a form that works great on a tablet.