iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant

[subjonas]

If the ASK had a trackpad that worked as well as the one on your MBP and simply made a cursor appear when you touched it with which you could do the things you currently have to do with your index finger, would you use it or perpetually ignore its presence?

If Apple does support a system-wide cursor, it will probably be through a trackpad on the Smart Keyboard, as you suggest. It would support all the usual multi touch gestures, and the cursor would probably look like a translucent dot, rather than an arrow. Not sure if the trackpad needs to be able to click. Probably not.

When using the keyboard I would definitely use the trackpad. It’s less energy.

 

[AlexJoda]

Back in the day, I would jailbreak my iPad 1 and iPad 2 to add support for mice. It worked well. I currently use a Citrix X1 mouse with Jump desktop to remote into my iMac. That works and feels like having an iPad running macOS. It too works great.

One reason why some people are fearful of system-wide support for mice is the misplaced belief that if a mouse were to be made optionally available then apps would REQUIRE it. I understand that concern, but it isn't a fear that should be accommodated.

Android has had native system-wide support for mice for years. It is optional and does not in any way interfere with using an Android tablet with touch. There is no "requirement" to use mice on Android tablets. I have the OPTION to use the trackpad or external mouse on my Lenovo Yoga Book (Android version) and depending upon where I'm using it and how I'm using it, I'll use my finger on the screen, or a mouse... because sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

I find it interesting that some of the same people who don't want mouse support didn't want support for physical keyboards either. They've finally come around to seeing the value of a physical keyboard... they'll do the same with the mouse.

I use the keyboard mostly together with my X1 mouse because with using the keyboard you are already too far away from the iPad with an uncomfortable working angle to use the touchscreen. If this would work outside of Jump Desktop it would be very welcome...

 

[IowaLynn]

I’ve got a Surface Pro 2017, Samsung DeX with Note 8, and iPad Pro 10.5. They all use stock Apple keyboard and mouse. Also Samsung Smart tv.

Add ‘support’ for mice. The iOS -ification of OS X and now MacOS began years ago, and seems destined to bring ARM Mac possibly too.

 

[strawberryshortcake]

I think that's the crux of the entire issue. Mouse support would fundamentally alter iOS in such a way that drawbacks outweigh benefits. We can position Apple Pencil and multi-touch as an example. Some people thought that the Apple Pencil would turn into a stylus where you use the device as an general input device for iPad. Instead, users find themselves alternating between Apple Pencil and their fingers in a very natural way. We never end up needing to put the Apple Pencil down, instead holding it in between our thumb and ring finger like we would with a pencil/pen.

The key word here is natural. The Apple Pencil is used for making marks - writing/drawing, while we still use our fingers for everything else. I'm not sure the same dynamic can exist if using a mouse, alongside multi-touch, on an iPad/iPhone.

Found the following video while searching for mouse and ipad. Starting video: @1:20

The above video is something that I did not know about until this very moment (January 2018). I just tried it on my Ipad Pro 12.9 and it totally works for "notes." Looks like anytime you can bring up the virtual keyboard, you can "activate" this "mouse" function.

Isn't the above video demonstrating something analogous to "mouse support" already built into the ipad iOS? Imagine doing the same thing without using your fingers and simply with a traditional mouse or a touchpad built into the apple keyboard or third party keyboard. It was so refreshing to see a mouse cursor (sort of) on a ipad.

Haven't read through the entire thead, but I bet there's one side that wants mouse support and the other side that's against mouse support. Then there are those that present a compromise -- mouse support is optional.

My Stance: Options are ALWAYS a good thing. Bring on the mouse support. Sort of like bluetooth support. There's an on/off button for that currently on ipads.

Most of us are saying that a mouse should be an optional accessory, much like keyboards and the pencil. No one forces us to use any of those accessories, but they’re available for those of us who would like them. That’s exactly how mouse support should and will be. If you or others don’t happen to need it, great, don’t use it. But I don’t see the point in arguing against something when the existence of that thing wouldn’t negatively affect you and it would clearly benefit many others...

Oh you awful person! It's almost like you're saying that this whole silly MR forum has no point....

Personally, I'm with you. Why can't Apple just add support? (long term money making plans, presumably). Scenario - I have a mouse next to me on the desk as I use my iPad, I move it, the cursor appears and does exactly what I'd do with my index finger without having to reach across to the screen (and does it better). I can imagine exactly how it would work, so I'm sure there are clever people at apple that could make it happen.

If you're arguing against any kind of iPad mouse support on some kind of Jobs paradigm fixation principle, then why not argue against it on a laptop?
[doublepost=1516739417][/doublepost]Question -

If the ASK had a trackpad that worked as well as the one on your MBP and simply made a cursor appear when you touched it with which you could do the things you currently have to do with your index finger, would you use it or perpetually ignore its presence?

I’ve got a Surface Pro 2017, Samsung DeX with Note 8, and iPad Pro 10.5. They all use stock Apple keyboard and mouse. Also Samsung Smart tv.

Add ‘support’ for mice. The iOS -ification of OS X and now MacOS began years ago, and seems destined to bring ARM Mac possibly too.

 

[subjonas]

Found the following video while searching for mouse and ipad. Starting video: @1:20

The above video is something that I did not know about until this very moment (January 2018). I just tried it on my Ipad Pro 12.9 and it totally works for "notes." Looks like anytime you can bring up the virtual keyboard, you can "activate" this "mouse" function.

Isn't the above video demonstrating something analogous to "mouse support" already built into the ipad iOS? Imagine doing the same thing without using your fingers and simply with a traditional mouse or a touchpad built into the apple keyboard or third party keyboard. It was so refreshing to see a mouse cursor (sort of) on a ipad.

Haven't read through the entire thead, but I bet there's one side that wants mouse support and the other side that's against mouse support. Then there are those that present a compromise -- mouse support is optional.

My Stance: Options are ALWAYS a good thing. Bring on the mouse support. Sort of like bluetooth support. There's an on/off button for that currently on ipads.

I think almost all who want mouse support want it to be optional. But the argument against (even) optional mouse support is that seeing as touch UI is not designed for a mouse, using a mouse would create an awkward/non-optimal experience (which I assume Apple never wants anyone to have on their devices even if they want it), and also that supporting a mouse might compromise the consistency of touch UI apps in the ecosystem, keeping developers from being encouraged to come up with touch solutions for problems.

The problem is that a physical keyboard and touch screen combo is also an awkward/non-optimal experience. In my opinion, Apple has worked themselves into a corner.

I think Apple added text cursor tracking though because of two reasons: 1) text bodies are isolated from the rest of the touch UI, and 2) text REALLY needs accurate pointing.

I’m willing to bet text cursor tracking will come to the Smart Keyboard soon in some shape or form. But beyond that it’s anybody’s guess.

 

[strawberryshortcake]

I think almost all who want mouse support want it to be optional. But the argument against (even) optional mouse support is that seeing as touch UI is not designed for a mouse, using a mouse would create an awkward/non-optimal experience (which I assume Apple never wants anyone to have on their devices even if they want it), and also that supporting a mouse might compromise the consistency of touch UI apps in the ecosystem, keeping developers from being encouraged to come up with touch solutions for problems.

The problem is that a physical keyboard and touch screen combo is also an awkward/non-optimal experience. In my opinion, Apple has worked themselves into a corner.

I think Apple added text cursor tracking though because of two reasons: 1) text bodies are isolated from the rest of the touch UI, and 2) text REALLY needs accurate pointing.

I’m willing to bet text cursor tracking will come to the Smart Keyboard soon in some shape or form. But beyond that it’s anybody’s guess.

Didn't read the entire thread, but did anyone mention the Microsoft Surface. Sure, different device but still a similar device so to speak. Surface integrates both touch user interface and mouse interface, and it seems to be working in perfect harmony, no?

Any app developers want to chime in on how difficult or easy it would be to integrate both mouse and touch for a specific app?

Hypothetically speaking, if it's only a matter a few to several lines of added code, would the same camp against the addition of mouse support still be against it? Honestly, if mouse support was implemented (today) for all ipads, I am certain that all camps would openly welcome it.

 

[jeremiah256]

You can connect computer keyboards, external storage, monitors, guitars, midi keyboards, cameras, and multiple other peripherals to an iPad, but somehow a mouse is going too far.

 

[sracer]

Didn't read the entire thread, but did anyone mention the Microsoft Surface. Sure, different device but still a similar device so to speak. Surface integrates both touch user interface and mouse interface, and it seems to be working in perfect harmony, no?

Any app developers want to chime in on how difficult or easy it would be to integrate both mouse and touch for a specific app?

Hypothetically speaking, if it's only a matter a few to several lines of added code, would the same camp against the addition of mouse support still be against it? Honestly, if mouse support was implemented (today) for all ipads, I am certain that all camps would openly welcome it.

I am certain that there would be a segment of the community that would be rabidly opposed to it.

It's easy to do. There was support for Bluetooth keyboards and mice for jail broken iPads back at the very beginning.

Android devices have had native, global, optional support for mice for years. It is well designed and does not interfere with touch-only interactions.

 

[strawberryshortcake]

I am certain that there would be a segment of the community that would be rabidly opposed to it.

It's easy to do. There was support for Bluetooth keyboards and mice for jail broken iPads back at the very beginning.

Android devices have had native, global, optional support for mice for years. It is well designed and does not interfere with touch-only interactions.

So it's just a matter of time before apple actually implements mouse support.

Would those rabid individuals be opposed to it just because they want to be oppose to it despite the feature not interfering with their existing workflow? Simple on/off button for mouse support just like the bluetooth on/off switch. If everything plays harmonious with one another, would that group simply want to have something to complain about.

I currently don't have a keyboard with my 12.9 ipad (but may want one in the future). I'm not oppose to a keyboard despite having the ability to use the touchscreen virtual keyboard. I'm actually using my PC to type, but if I had a keyboard, I could very well be typing this response on my ipad. It's simply much faster, more efficient, and more productive to type with a real keyboard.

 

[sracer]

So it's just a matter of time before apple actually implements mouse support.

Would those rabid individuals be opposed to it just because they want to be oppose to it despite the feature not interfering with their existing workflow? Simple on/off button for mouse support just like the bluetooth on/off switch. If everything plays harmonious with one another, would that group simply want to have something to complain about.

I currently don't have a keyboard with my 12.9 ipad (but may want one in the future). I'm not oppose to a keyboard despite having the ability to use the touchscreen virtual keyboard. I'm actually using my PC to type, but if I had a keyboard, I could very well be typing this response on my ipad. It's simply much faster, more efficient, and more productive to type with a real keyboard.

No, it isn't simply a matter of time. It was never a technical issue but one of direction. Apple made a marketing decision not to include mouse support. Apple generally reacts to what their competitors do when it begins to become something to be concerned about. They did it with phablets, refusing to produce a larger iPhone until Android phablets had begun selling in significant numbers. The same was true for 7-8" tablets.

But now that Android tablets are no longer viable competition, no pressure to implement what Android offers. Chromebooks are another matter and it remains to be seen if Apple's attempts to regain market share in the education segment will pay off.

As for the few but rabid in opposition, it is nothing more than emotions. They're emotionally invested in Apple's declaration that mice are not necessary for touch devices. The same was true for physical keyboards for the iPad. Lots of resistance. They weren't even aware that Apple made a keyboard dock for the iPad 1. I had it for my iPad 1 and 2, and it was a great accessory.

 

[richpjr]

I am certain that there would be a segment of the community that would be rabidly opposed to it.

A lot of the ones that rabidly oppose it, would suddenly tout how magical it it if Apple finally does relent and add it.

 

[Msivyparrot]

If it is technically possible to introduce the mouse/cursor on the ipad, then it really should be done, the point is, my home button on the ipad broke, and I thought that was the end of that, the repair shop showed me how to use the accessibility feature and create an on screen home button, and it works 100%, having a cursor and a mouse would actually be very useful, you need to cater to a large user base not just assume we will have 10 fingers, 2 arms, 2 eyes that work, 2 ears that work, we are not all the same, so surely it makes commercial sense to have the device as accessible as possible....

Quite frankly I am sure legislation will soon be passed in many jurisdictions that will mandate the use of "switches" or devices that render the ipad functional for the population that need it...Like buildings need lifts/ramps for wheelchairs, and lifts with braille for the blind to function.

 

[rmariboe]

I'm always baffled by those against it. It's literally a matter of turning on the ability to pair a mouse natively. Doesn't harm anyone or anything.

It actually might harm everyone as not being able to rely on a mouse forces developers to work into their apps good touch support. If devs were free to require a mouse, touch support would in many cases hurt, making the iPad little more than a simplified Surface

I would love having mouse support in a few of the apps I use - but I'm afraid of the consequence for all the apps I don't want the mouse being the primary input device for...

 

[sparksd]

It actually might harm everyone as not being able to rely on a mouse forces developers to work into their apps good touch support. If devs were free to require a mouse, touch support would in many cases hurt, making the iPad little more than a simplified Surface

I would love having mouse support in a few of the apps I use - but I'm afraid of the consequence for all the apps I don't want the mouse being the primary input device for...

Market forces will take care of poor developers - I don't see this as being an issue.

 

[jeremiah256]

It actually might harm everyone as not being able to rely on a mouse forces developers to work into their apps good touch support. If devs were free to require a mouse, touch support would in many cases hurt, making the iPad little more than a simplified Surface

I would love having mouse support in a few of the apps I use - but I'm afraid of the consequence for all the apps I don't want the mouse being the primary input device for...

The tools for touch are embedded within iOS and the hardware. If an object is supposed to be touched, it doesn't matter whether it's a Pencil, finger, or a curser. I believe we can trust Apple's developer community to want to continue to make money and the good developers know that iOS would still primarily be a touch first OS. Adding mouse/trackpad support would just open up opportunities for upgrading applications, such as Excel, where touch is not the optimal way to interact.

 

[Mathias Denichi]

Back on iOS 9, I jail broke my iPad Air and had the BT mouse and keyboard mod. It worked fine and I was able to get text work done way quicker.

I would definitely welcome this to be natively supported by app, like mifi controllers. I’d be way more into coding and games on the iPad if it was supported.

 

[canesalato]

No, it isn't simply a matter of time. It was never a technical issue but one of direction. Apple made a marketing decision not to include mouse support. Apple generally reacts to what their competitors do when it begins to become something to be concerned about. They did it with phablets, refusing to produce a larger iPhone until Android phablets had begun selling in significant numbers. The same was true for 7-8" tablets.

But now that Android tablets are no longer viable competition, no pressure to implement what Android offers. Chromebooks are another matter and it remains to be seen if Apple's attempts to regain market share in the education segment will pay off.

As for the few but rabid in opposition, it is nothing more than emotions. They're emotionally invested in Apple's declaration that mice are not necessary for touch devices. The same was true for physical keyboards for the iPad. Lots of resistance. They weren't even aware that Apple made a keyboard dock for the iPad 1. I had it for my iPad 1 and 2, and it was a great accessory.

or a stylus, or a usb-c port. And in software a file manager and split screen multitasking. Now it's about mice and external memories. If you need a keyboard and a trackpad, just buy a MacBook (until the keyboard stops working).
[doublepost=1548216448][/doublepost]

I would love having mouse support in a few of the apps I use - but I'm afraid of the consequence for all the apps I don't want the mouse being the primary input device for...

The exact same thing was said for the stylus. "If they add a stylus, all the apps will require the stylus, using fingers will became a horrible experience". You don't need to be worried. Android has been having mouse support for years. It's ok. All these "fears" only belong to the apple ecosystem bubble. =)

 

[AlexJoda]

As the hardware of the iPads gets more and more powerful with every generation the biggest hurdle to use these devices for professional tasks is the missing support for pointing devices. A first step was the external keyboard but without a trackpad or mouse a keyboard does not make much sense. It is totally annoying to switch between keyboard and touch input all the time.

The same thing is true for the external display that in most cases makes much more sense as an extended and not as a mirrored display. But an extended display is only usable with a pointing device....

As the first iPad was more like a big iPhone the recent iPads are about to overtake the MacBooks regrading the hardware performance (and price). Apple shouldn’t cripple them any longer and give them the possibilities to do everything the customers wants and needs with them. Don’t get me wrong, I love the touch interface of the iPad for many things. But to remove these limitations from IOS and add some features of MacOS (like pointing devices, finder operations and so on) is much better idea than adding touch support to the MacBooks. This will give a big boost to iPad sales as the success of the Surface line shows....(and the iPad is or better can be the much better product in comparison).

 

[rowspaxe]

Would tReplyhose rabid individuals be opposed to it just because they want to be oppose to it despite the feature not interfering with their existing workflow? Simple on/off button for mouse support just like the bluetooth on/off switch. If everything plays harmonious with one another, would that group simply want to have something to complain about.

Don't you understand? adding mouse support would immediately corrupt the purity of
ios: touch targets will grow smaller overnight! Soon vast swaths of ios software will be..
untouchable! Soon the ipad will be like the yucky Surface Pro, of which I have bought
six but had to return when each when they BSOD'd after mere minutes
of use!
[doublepost=1548235612][/doublepost]

It actually might harm everyone as not being able to rely on a mouse forces developers to work into their apps good touch support. If devs were free to require a mouse, touch support would in many cases hurt, making the iPad little more than a simplified Surface

And...beyond parody...there is MacRumors
[doublepost=1548235967][/doublepost]

Not exactly. If you read my explanation above, I do detail why I feel implementing cursor support might require a complete rethinking of how the touch interface might work on iOS.

OMG! And right on the heels of the transformation of ios caused by the pencil!

And yes, I do find working on spreadsheets a pain on my iPad, but I am willing to bite the bullet and wait for a better app solution to present itself, rather than for Apple to take what I view as a short-sighted bandaid.

"Because I value my ios purity over product usefulness". And then, there is that looming
post mouse utopia! No bandaids please!
[doublepost=1548237018][/doublepost]

They're scared to cannibalize MacBook sales. They need to get over that. They're different form factors.

The ipad will still be a subpar laptop--but it will be an awesome hybrid device!

 

[akash.nu]

The exact same thing was said for the stylus. "If they add a stylus, all the apps will require the stylus, using fingers will became a horrible experience". You don't need to be worried. Android has been having mouse support for years. It's ok. All these "fears" only belong to the apple ecosystem bubble. =)

Just to bring it back in context. You’re comparing with a market that doesn’t exist! Android tablet market is dead to say the least.

 

[sracer]

Just to bring it back in context. You’re comparing with a market that doesn’t exist! Android tablet market is dead to say the least.

Well, if a "dead" platform was able to support mice and trackpads, then a "superior" platform should.

 

[akash.nu]

Well, if a "dead" platform was able to support mice and trackpads, then a "superior" platform should.

Not necessarily, hitler is dead, do we want another?!

 

[sracer]

Not necessarily, hitler is dead, do we want another?!

I apologize. I assumed you wanted to engage in a reasonable discussion.

 

[sparksd]

Just to bring it back in context. You’re comparing with a market that doesn’t exist! Android tablet market is dead to say the least.

That does not mean that Android tablets don't have some features that are superior to Apple's.

 

[jamesrick80]

I really need my mouse support, real file manager, drag and drop, and a new tablet/desktop style iOS for the ipad pro to justify me having the 1 tb 6 gb ram model. I am so not buying a ipad pro for the next 3 years so this better become the best bang for the bucks I spent on the highest model 11 inch ipad pro. Its ashame...I have to have future hope for a expensive product. Thank goodness they at least gave me USB-C, I can't even see anyone justifying buying a iPhone this year without USB-C seeing that every device I have uses USB-C in some form or another.

Otherwise, I use my other devices that do these things without a hitch.