...what are your thoughts on the arrow keys Apple included on the Smart Keyboard? Seems to me they provide an appalling and dreadfully antithetical manner of interacting with the touchscreen without pressing on it.
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iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
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I have no thoughts on it, though I personally have little need for them in the rare occasions when I type using a bluetooth keyboard. I guess having it is better than not having it, since it resides on the keyboard already, rather than as some sort of external numpad accessory.
Not exactly. If you read my explanation above, I do detail why I feel implementing cursor support might require a complete rethinking of how the touch interface might work on iOS. To me, it's not so simple as simply having a floating arrow on the screen and calling it a day.
And yes, I do find working on spreadsheets a pain on my iPad, but I am willing to bite the bullet and wait for a better app solution to present itself, rather than for Apple to take what I view as a short-sighted bandaid.
But who knows. I could be wrong and Apple might find a way to make it work. I was wrong about the usefulness of split-screen multitasking and a file manager after all (though to be fair, Apple's version of files is more like Documents, which I am already using).
So the jailbreak community was able to give us a cursor presence at all times without impact to iOS, but apple can't?
You find it easy to use touch to highlight text on an idevice and then select that text? Its a nightmare.
Regardless of mouse support the implementation of that feauture sucks. It's incredible that is was left unchanged (just became more buggy) since iOS3
Someone posted this on Reddit:
https://insideinnovation.co/gorilla-arms-will-make-you-stop-using-the-ipad-pro-92922c2c4e5c
So that brings me back to my initial statement that all the people here who are so much against mouse / trackpad support have probably never used the iPad Pro 12.9 for more than an hour and for anything that is not related to art / surfing the web and replying to an email while the iPad is docked. They have probably never used the iPad for anything that requires lots of interactions with the screen for longer periods of time.
Our bodies are not made to lift our arms 200+ times per hour to reach and touch the screen for every little action we would like to preform on a computer device. It's just never physically going to work without some side effects. Apple WILL need to create a solution for that if they want to see any additional iPad Pros selling well and replacing our daily traditional computers. While Apple is trying to innovative, they can't reinvent the wheel and change how the human body is built.
This is exactly why they never created a touch screen Mac...but oddly they did create a huge 12.9'' touch screen iPad.
People will not continue to purchase the iPad Pro and spend so much money after they realize that this device doesn't really do anything much better than a regular iPad or tablet (unless you are an artist). Sure, it has a great screen and great mobile apps but if my arm hurts using it...what's the point? Of working on it does not simplify anything for me, what's the point? For real work during prolonged times the iPad MUST get a pointing device that does not require the user to lift his/her arm.
I'm also pretty sure that most of the people who are willing to spend so much on an iPad Pro are buying it for work purposes. They are not spending so much to watch Netflix on the device or reply to simple emails. Until there is mouse / trackpad / pointing device the iPad Pro will fail to deliver to the main audience it attracts and these customers will look elsewhere for a mobile device that they can actually do work on without the arm fatigue side effect.
Some posters here say we are a very small minority. I say that the more people actually use the device like they do their laptops, we will become the majority.
https://insideinnovation.co/gorilla-arms-will-make-you-stop-using-the-ipad-pro-92922c2c4e5c
So that brings me back to my initial statement that all the people here who are so much against mouse / trackpad support have probably never used the iPad Pro 12.9 for more than an hour and for anything that is not related to art / surfing the web and replying to an email while the iPad is docked. They have probably never used the iPad for anything that requires lots of interactions with the screen for longer periods of time.
Our bodies are not made to lift our arms 200+ times per hour to reach and touch the screen for every little action we would like to preform on a computer device. It's just never physically going to work without some side effects. Apple WILL need to create a solution for that if they want to see any additional iPad Pros selling well and replacing our daily traditional computers. While Apple is trying to innovative, they can't reinvent the wheel and change how the human body is built.
This is exactly why they never created a touch screen Mac...but oddly they did create a huge 12.9'' touch screen iPad.
People will not continue to purchase the iPad Pro and spend so much money after they realize that this device doesn't really do anything much better than a regular iPad or tablet (unless you are an artist). Sure, it has a great screen and great mobile apps but if my arm hurts using it...what's the point? Of working on it does not simplify anything for me, what's the point? For real work during prolonged times the iPad MUST get a pointing device that does not require the user to lift his/her arm.
I'm also pretty sure that most of the people who are willing to spend so much on an iPad Pro are buying it for work purposes. They are not spending so much to watch Netflix on the device or reply to simple emails. Until there is mouse / trackpad / pointing device the iPad Pro will fail to deliver to the main audience it attracts and these customers will look elsewhere for a mobile device that they can actually do work on without the arm fatigue side effect.
Some posters here say we are a very small minority. I say that the more people actually use the device like they do their laptops, we will become the majority.
What are you espousing here? Tablet purity? That went out the window with the smart cover. Does the smart cover--with its keyboard shortcuts--impinge on the "tabletness" of the ipad pro? No. Apple liked the idea so much they started pushing the "laptop replacement" meme. But you are drawing the line at the keyboard; the mouse or trackpad would be a step too far! The addition of a pointing capability is : "toasters and refrigerators" madness.
This is an insane distinction. You are welcome to the "idiosyncrasies" of the current workflow, but many here want the flexibility of a true hybrid device. And if Apple gave it to them. it would affect your ipad use not a wit.
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Many excel users do not need to do heavy entry of calculation on their mobile devices: they just need to review and/or update files.
So why would you need a mouse for that? I guess my point was that if I was editing a spreadsheet enough to really want to use a mouse, I would probably just use a laptop. If I am editing a cell or two, then I can suffer for that 30 seconds. And if I am reviewing it as you say, then by definition I wouldn't really be interacting in order to want a mouse. Excel is a great example of when a mouse would be very useful, probably necessary. Unfortunately it is also a great example of an app I don't use the mobile version of because of its limitations, no mouse being one of many.
I'd like mouse support, but its not the end of the world. Doesn't make any sense why they wouldn't just allow the option if people care to use it.
I asked one of the guys at the Apple Store about it and he basically said hardly anyone has asked Apple for it. In the 4 years he has worked there only 2 other people have mentioned mouse support on an iPad. Be interesting to see where they get their data from with those sorts of requests.
I asked one of the guys at the Apple Store about it and he basically said hardly anyone has asked Apple for it. In the 4 years he has worked there only 2 other people have mentioned mouse support on an iPad. Be interesting to see where they get their data from with those sorts of requests.
Seems the iPad sells very well without mouse support 
. Perhaps people uses the iPad in different ways compared to a laptop and that is the whole idea with the iPad. New methods to interact with iPad type of devices will evolve and will eventually replace the now ancient keyboard and mouse user input. This debate is the same as the prompt vs GUI in the 80th and early 90th and look what happened.
. Perhaps people uses the iPad in different ways compared to a laptop and that is the whole idea with the iPad. New methods to interact with iPad type of devices will evolve and will eventually replace the now ancient keyboard and mouse user input. This debate is the same as the prompt vs GUI in the 80th and early 90th and look what happened.
Seems the iPad sells very well without mouse support
They are selling okay. The question I ask is could they be selling better if there were a few more features, such as better file support (kind of coming in iOS11) and mouse support? New ways of interacting don't necessarily mean better ways. A touch OS is great when not using an ASK. But when you are, it slows a user down and is an ergonomic mess.
IPad outsell mac 2 to 1 - I would say that is quite OK. I agree that touch and ASK is a bad combination, but then again why buy a iPad if you use a ASK centric workflow? New ways are not necessarily worse either. Now there is at least an alterative to keyboard and mouse setup which is great.
I think keeping mouse support out of the iPad will benefit the iPad in the long run as software developers will be forced to think outside the keyboard and mouse paradigm. If you need better precision, buy a pencil. We also have to factor in the iPhone which often uses simpler interface of the same software as the corresponding iPad. So in that respect, the iPad may benefit more by leaning towards the iPhone(touch) than the Mac(keyboard and mouse).
The only time I use ASK is when I need to write long manuscripts. The reason I use it is not because I do not like touch keyboards but I need the larger screen real estate. Writing manuscripts provides little need for touch as the two finger cursor is mostly sufficiant. Software arrows, page up and down, would however be helpful for navigating text.
They may also come up with a system that allows you to use your iPhone as a trackpad for the iPad. I'd go for that.
Like I can do with my phone when I hook it up to an external screen.
What about having a mouse cursor visable when using a mouse and not visible when using touch?
That is how it works on Windows so why not the iPad?
That is how it works on Windows so why not the iPad?
That is exactly how it would work on an iPad as well. Anyone who has used the Xcode iOS virtual machines can tell it works just fine.
It's really a silly argument. There is no reason at all that Apple couldn't introduce mouse support when using certain productivity or editing apps. This is where they make sense. It simply comes down to money. No UI changes would be needed, people wouldn't be confused, fingers would still work, all would be fine.
Bottom line is that mouse control on a tablet ABSOLUTELY works, even on an iPad. Apple just needs to turn it on.
And yes, it is that simple.
And yes, it is that simple.
I didn't buy the iPad because I have an ASK centric workflow. As has been discussed at great length in this thread though, mouse support would make my iPad far more useful and would allow me to leave my MBP home at times instead of having to bring both devices.
What's the logic behind no mouse/trackpad support in iOS?
- This is the car vs. truck argument (if you need mouse/trackpad support, you need a "truck")
When you want to do one thing and do it really well, you don't want to screw up the user experience by making things overly complicated.(e.g. iPod Nano/Shuffle vs. iPod Touch or Apple Watch or iPhone... oh wait... nevermind)- Resistance to return to an old input method (mouse/trackpad) on a device that is effectively a complete vision of Steve's 1983 vision of Apple Computer's direction: "What we want to do is we want to put an incredibly great computer in a book that you can carry around with you and learn how to use in 20 minutes
I'd settle for an in-built trackpad that functions exactly like the Apple Remote for the Apple TV.
Since tvOS is essentially a version of iOS designed for a larger, non-touch sensitive screen, I don't see why Apple can't implement the same input method for iOS. If Apple can improve on the user interface, I think this can be a very elegant approach.
Since tvOS is essentially a version of iOS designed for a larger, non-touch sensitive screen, I don't see why Apple can't implement the same input method for iOS. If Apple can improve on the user interface, I think this can be a very elegant approach.
So you want to use an iPad to replace a PC by using the iPad to remotely connect to a PC?
Just cut the iPad in the middle.
The only reason I see for a mouse is if you have an ASK centric workflow, ie emulating laptop mode. The reason I oppose mouse support is becuase it gives developers an excuse not to develop proper touch or pencil interactions. Developers have a tendency to take the easiest route, partly because consumers don't want to pay the price for development. Do I lack trackpad sometimes on iPad? Yes, but the reason is often poor a touch interface implementations which is a software issue. Take the two finger "trackpad" function. Why not navigate with two fingers, add a third finger for selection and fourth finger for moving the selected part. Perfectly doable.
I think the mouse was a proxy for touch and pencil 30 years ago and its existance has been challanged since the introduction of the multitouch trackpad.
Will iPad be more usable with mouse/trackpad support - yes, for the moment and in my opinion only for those with ASK centered workflows using softwares poorly designed for touch/pencil.