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iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
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If you're gonna use an iPad to connect to a PC, then just carry a PC! A Surface would be a similar form factor.
The whole point is that I don't want or need to carry a PC. With Jump Desktop and the Citrix mouse, I can now control the servers at work remotely with the iPad. Works great. Up until now, I've had to take my work PC and my iPad wherever I go. Now I can just take the iPad. What I'd like to do is also use a mouse for other apps on the iPad.
This logic is ridiculous.
This is an Apple forum, so chances are, people don't want a windows based machine. I know I don't.
I'm using the same setup as @seadragon. The reason I choose to use the iPad is because when I'm not using Remote Desktop for desktop tasks, I like to be able to browse/read/watch on the tablet. If I just "do away" with the iPad middle layer, I'm forced to do all of these things with a machine that's twice the weight (or more?) and tied to a keyboard.
So, I have a few options: I can have a laptop AND tablet (cost more) that I would have to carry around (more weight), or I can use Remote Desktop and only carry an iPad Pro. To make this set up better, mouse support would be helpful.
I'm thankful that jump Desktop does have compatibility with the citrix mouse as this atleast means I can use Remote Desktop and perform tasks remotely that require a mouse (I.e. Using excel). I would love a track pad on a keyboard like the Brydge keyboard though.
While I was a big proponent of iOS getting mouse support in the past, now not so much.
I've found that either multitouch has gotten a lot better in interpreting what I want to do, or it might be that I've gotten better at using it. I'm finding that I can easily handle content management activities using touch, when in the past I gave up in frustration.
The other thing I've discovered in ASK workflow is that with my hands resting on the desk, moving my fingers to the screen, still supporting the weight of my hands with my wrists contacting the desk, I can easily reach any point of the screen while simultanously touching the edges on an 10.5 Pro without stain, so it's actually a pleaureable way to work.
I've found that either multitouch has gotten a lot better in interpreting what I want to do, or it might be that I've gotten better at using it. I'm finding that I can easily handle content management activities using touch, when in the past I gave up in frustration.
The other thing I've discovered in ASK workflow is that with my hands resting on the desk, moving my fingers to the screen, still supporting the weight of my hands with my wrists contacting the desk, I can easily reach any point of the screen while simultanously touching the edges on an 10.5 Pro without stain, so it's actually a pleaureable way to work.
This does not work on the 12.9'' model as the screen is too large. It works on the the 10.5'' but still feels like a huge compromise when using the ASK.
I like iOS, but for an IT job I would get a Windows tables, specially when I have to deal with a Windows based office and proprietary management solutions made for Windows (some of which are legacy). A Surface has both a stylus and mouse support and a very adequate keyboard. Software is not as good as iOS, though.
To me, the iPad has a long way to go before being a desktop replacement (and a production device) and the Surface has a long way to go to be a real consumer tablet (a consumption device).
I think that's the crux of the entire issue. Mouse support would fundamentally alter iOS in such a way that drawbacks outweigh benefits. We can position Apple Pencil and multi-touch as an example. Some people thought that the Apple Pencil would turn into a stylus where you use the device as an general input device for iPad. Instead, users find themselves alternating between Apple Pencil and their fingers in a very natural way. We never end up needing to put the Apple Pencil down, instead holding it in between our thumb and ring finger like we would with a pencil/pen.
The key word here is natural. The Apple Pencil is used for making marks - writing/drawing, while we still use our fingers for everything else. I'm not sure the same dynamic can exist if using a mouse, alongside multi-touch, on an iPad/iPhone.
At this point, you aren’t saying anything that hasn’t already been mentioned in this thread and as stated earlier, mouse support doesn’t need to change iOS at all. Input can still be driven primarily by finger/multi touch, the mouse would act as a smaller method to implementing a touch in iOS... and would allow things such as dragging (that I don’t think a pencil is capable of). This would help for instance when you want to copy a formula in excel to multiple rows in a sheet... or populate a date across multiple columns.
Other people may argue for mouse support on the home screen, but I would love at least a framework developers could implement so that we can pair and use normal Bluetooth devices IN certain apps (pending developers update their apps).
I also don’t mind if apple wanted to implement a more ‘swipe’ based system like we see with Apple TV...
I just got an iPad Pro 10.5. It really is amazing. The multitasking in iOS 11 and touchscreen for basic stuff works really well.
But: Today I paired a wireless keyboard, and this thing suddenly started to behave like a tiny, fast, amazing, really useful macOS-like device - better in some ways than macOS is.
But, boy did I want to pair my mouse with it - sadly it doesn't work. But it would be fantastic!
No need to alter any of the current iOS design, simply add pointer support as if it were your finger.
The stylus support is also good, but useful in a different way than a mouse is.
But: Today I paired a wireless keyboard, and this thing suddenly started to behave like a tiny, fast, amazing, really useful macOS-like device - better in some ways than macOS is.
But, boy did I want to pair my mouse with it - sadly it doesn't work. But it would be fantastic!
No need to alter any of the current iOS design, simply add pointer support as if it were your finger.
The stylus support is also good, but useful in a different way than a mouse is.
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I would like mouse support it productivity apps only. I think it'll happen one day, but who knows. Definitely not needed system wide, just in certain apps.
I personally don't think it's needed, the iPad Pro is enough for things like drawing photo editing apps and so on if people need more or a computer OS then buy a Mac and use the iPad Pro as a companion device, i do that and i love using my Mac for writing and video editing and then my iPad Pro for drawing, watching content and so on.
I think the customer should get what they want -if Apple doesn’t provide it someone else will. If the only thing that’s stopping people from be8ng satisfied with an iPad is the lack of mouse support then allowing Apple to prevent that solely to allow them to keep selling more computers is nuts (and unsustainable in a free market).
This is ridiculous, why would you want mouse support only in some apps and not system wide? I would hate having to switch between mouse and touch all the time. For example, switching between two mouse enabled apps would be annoying.
Back in the day, I would jailbreak my iPad 1 and iPad 2 to add support for mice. It worked well. I currently use a Citrix X1 mouse with Jump desktop to remote into my iMac. That works and feels like having an iPad running macOS. It too works great.
One reason why some people are fearful of system-wide support for mice is the misplaced belief that if a mouse were to be made optionally available then apps would REQUIRE it. I understand that concern, but it isn't a fear that should be accommodated.
Android has had native system-wide support for mice for years. It is optional and does not in any way interfere with using an Android tablet with touch. There is no "requirement" to use mice on Android tablets. I have the OPTION to use the trackpad or external mouse on my Lenovo Yoga Book (Android version) and depending upon where I'm using it and how I'm using it, I'll use my finger on the screen, or a mouse... because sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.
I find it interesting that some of the same people who don't want mouse support didn't want support for physical keyboards either. They've finally come around to seeing the value of a physical keyboard... they'll do the same with the mouse.
And Apple can mandate that use of a mouse must be optional, not required, much like with game controllers:
https://developer.apple.com/library...meControllerPG/Introduction/Introduction.html
Because it's not needed. I get adding it for Excel or Pages or Word, maybe some others, but I don't see a reason for it system wide, plus I think it could get messy having mouse support in touch games and other apps. Keeping it within certain apps makes sense for Apple and it's users.
The thing is, that is a very subjective opinion. It’s great that you seem happy with the iPad as it is, but 24 pages of this thread shows that many of us are not and clearly would appreciate mouse support. I do happen to see a reason for it system wide, as do many others. For me, that reason is efficiency and physical comfort when I’m using my keyboard already and have that and my iPad set up at my desk. For me, it’s really not efficient or comfortable to reach back and forth all the time. A trackpad next to the keyboard, with a little dot on the screen representing my finger, would make it that much easier for me. But that, of course, is my own subjective opinion.
Most of us are saying that a mouse should be an optional accessory, much like keyboards and the pencil. No one forces us to use any of those accessories, but they’re available for those of us who would like them. That’s exactly how mouse support should and will be. If you or others don’t happen to need it, great, don’t use it. But I don’t see the point in arguing against something when the existence of that thing wouldn’t negatively affect you and it would clearly benefit many others...
The thing is, that is a very subjective opinion. It’s great that you seem happy with the iPad as it is, but 24 pages of this thread shows that many of us are not and clearly would appreciate mouse support. I do happen to see a reason for it system wide, as do many others. For me, that reason is efficiency and physical comfort when I’m using my keyboard already and have that and my iPad set up at my desk. For me, it’s really not efficient or comfortable to reach back and forth all the time. A trackpad next to the keyboard, with a little dot on the screen representing my finger, would make it that much easier for me. But that, of course, is my own subjective opinion.
Most of us are saying that a mouse should be an optional accessory, much like keyboards and the pencil. No one forces us to use any of those accessories, but they’re available for those of us who would like them. That’s exactly how mouse support should and will be. If you or others don’t happen to need it, great, don’t use it. But I don’t see the point in arguing against something when the existence of that thing wouldn’t negatively affect you and it would clearly benefit many others...
I'm not arguing at all, just giving my opinion as I think it's the most likely scenario if we get mouse support at all. I have no issue with someone wanting it system wide.
Keyboards and touch screens were never designed for each other. They were shoved together as an afterthought. There’s a reason why keyboards and mice/trackpads have existed together for so long—one was designed for the other. It’s the optimal experience. Anything else is not optimal.
This whole debate is ultimately caused by another flaw in the iPad and pretty much all tablets—a more fundamental flaw—which is that they were never given a good text input method that was designed completely for the tablet form factor. They simply borrowed from traditional computers, which borrowed from typewriters. But traditional computers and typewriters were similar enough in form factor that the transition made sense. The tablet is a completely different form factor, more akin to a book or a pad of paper.
With a keyboard you have to stand the iPad up on a table, so it turns back into a traditional computer. It’s a quasi-hybrid. Some people may ultimately want that hybrid experience. But personally, I prefer more dedicated devices with software and hardware all designed specifically for one particular form factor. But the iPad can’t be a dedicated device if it doesn’t have its own text input method.
Of course, the million dollar question is what would that method be? I don’t know. Voice dictation is out because it’s just not practical in many situations. Swype would be a contender if it was accurate and didn’t take up half the screen, but those are huge hurdles. I think some form of handwriting recognition is a possibility, though there are big hurdles with that as well.
In any case, in my opinion Apple should make a decision—either go all in with the tablet form factor and build a better specialized form of text entry into iOS, or go one step further toward hybrid and at least give the people better ergonomics by adding mouse support. This toeing the line isn’t good for anyone.
This whole debate is ultimately caused by another flaw in the iPad and pretty much all tablets—a more fundamental flaw—which is that they were never given a good text input method that was designed completely for the tablet form factor. They simply borrowed from traditional computers, which borrowed from typewriters. But traditional computers and typewriters were similar enough in form factor that the transition made sense. The tablet is a completely different form factor, more akin to a book or a pad of paper.
With a keyboard you have to stand the iPad up on a table, so it turns back into a traditional computer. It’s a quasi-hybrid. Some people may ultimately want that hybrid experience. But personally, I prefer more dedicated devices with software and hardware all designed specifically for one particular form factor. But the iPad can’t be a dedicated device if it doesn’t have its own text input method.
Of course, the million dollar question is what would that method be? I don’t know. Voice dictation is out because it’s just not practical in many situations. Swype would be a contender if it was accurate and didn’t take up half the screen, but those are huge hurdles. I think some form of handwriting recognition is a possibility, though there are big hurdles with that as well.
In any case, in my opinion Apple should make a decision—either go all in with the tablet form factor and build a better specialized form of text entry into iOS, or go one step further toward hybrid and at least give the people better ergonomics by adding mouse support. This toeing the line isn’t good for anyone.
People do provide it and IPad is still the go to tablet for almost everyone.
I don’t think Mouse support is the issue they need to solve. Touch support is more natural and the Pros of this age have a preference with it, but by the time my kids are in college ( 6 & 8 now ) people will be editing in iPad Pro and Android Pro and Windows will probably be long forgotten.
Their Achilles Hill is I/O support or lack there of. It’s a problem I think they are trying to solve on their MacBook Peo line up. Do you think it’s a coincidence that the year after releasing the iPad Pro 12.9 (which was more powerful than the base model MacBooks Pros) they redesigned the MacBook Pro and removes all their legacy ports? That was done because Apple needs to move (wants is probably a better word) the industry to adopt USB-C quickly (or go wireless - like they said they think is the better way) so you can get your files easily on the iPad Pro without the use of the lightning port. This allows them to keep their design without a lot of ports and allows them to have a new Pro line up that can go head to head with the Surface Pro. Being able to work in the field is going to be something a lot of professionals is going to want, and the MacBook Pros don’t have the battery life the iPad Pros do.
Wanting a mouse is holding people back. Embrace change or just use what you have now. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon.
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The thing is, Apple has always shown us what we want instead of listening to us. It’s who Apple is. Some people might go over to Windows 10, because Microsoft is giving a desktop experience on a tablet already.
It’s up to Apple to show us why their iPad Pro is better than anything else out there, and right now they are working towards that goal. They just aren’t there yet.
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The thing is, that is a very subjective opinion. It’s great that you seem happy with the iPad as it is, but 24 pages of this thread shows that many of us are not and clearly would appreciate mouse support. I do happen to see a reason for it system wide, as do many others. For me, that reason is efficiency and physical comfort when I’m using my keyboard already and have that and my iPad set up at my desk. For me, it’s really not efficient or comfortable to reach back and forth all the time. A trackpad next to the keyboard, with a little dot on the screen representing my finger, would make it that much easier for me. But that, of course, is my own subjective opinion.
Most of us are saying that a mouse should be an optional accessory, much like keyboards and the pencil. No one forces us to use any of those accessories, but they’re available for those of us who would like them. That’s exactly how mouse support should and will be. If you or others don’t happen to need it, great, don’t use it. But I don’t see the point in arguing against something when the existence of that thing wouldn’t negatively affect you and it would clearly benefit many others...
I don’t see the point either, but I do see the point in curbing your expectations. I could be wrong - Apple could throw us a curve ball anytime now and announce a new trackpad or mouse for the iPad Pro. But the likely hood of it is very slim. Apple is trying very hard to show us Touch is the future. They just aren’t there yet.
Most of us are saying that a mouse should be an optional accessory, much like keyboards and the pencil. No one forces us to use any of those accessories, but they’re available for those of us who would like them. That’s exactly how mouse support should and will be. If you or others don’t happen to need it, great, don’t use it. But I don’t see the point in arguing against something when the existence of that thing wouldn’t negatively affect you and it would clearly benefit many others...
Oh you awful person! It's almost like you're saying that this whole silly MR forum has no point....
Personally, I'm with you. Why can't Apple just add support? (long term money making plans, presumably). Scenario - I have a mouse next to me on the desk as I use my iPad, I move it, the cursor appears and does exactly what I'd do with my index finger without having to reach across to the screen (and does it better). I can imagine exactly how it would work, so I'm sure there are clever people at apple that could make it happen.
If you're arguing against any kind of iPad mouse support on some kind of Jobs paradigm fixation principle, then why not argue against it on a laptop?
[doublepost=1516739417][/doublepost]Question -
If the ASK had a trackpad that worked as well as the one on your MBP and simply made a cursor appear when you touched it with which you could do the things you currently have to do with your index finger, would you use it or perpetually ignore its presence?