My First Job. Critiques/Ideas needed!

[game2]

I think some of you so called "Designers" forget that there's no NORM on what people like. ART cannot be taught, specific art designs can be... this does not mean that the CONSUMER prefers your so called BOOK taught bull crap design concepts.

Im sorry but if your taught that the London logo " is perfect" or an example im not sure what your teachers are teaching. Logo design altho a little different than art must be liked, and you simply cannot teach what is liked.

Funny and i was considering graphic design as a dual bachelors with the marketing im about to finish. 84k at frt laudy art institute i think ill save my money.

 

[THX1139]

I think some of you so called "Designers" forget that there's no NORM on what people like. ART cannot be taught, specific art designs can be... this does not mean that the CONSUMER prefers your so called BOOK taught bull crap design concepts.

Im sorry but if your taught that the London logo " is perfect" or an example im not sure what your teachers are teaching. Logo design altho a little different than art must be liked, and you simply cannot teach what is liked.

Funny and i was considering graphic design as a dual bachelors with the marketing im about to finish. 84k at frt laudy art institute i think ill save my money.

Wow, a dual bachelors and you can't even spell? Most modern computers have spell-check built in. You should learn to use it if you want people to take you serious.

Anyway, your first mistake is to think that Art and Graphic Design are the same thing, or very similar. They are not. I won't bother to explain the difference because you probably wouldn't understand.

You should save your money and stick with your marketing degree. Especially since you know nothing about the field of graphic design. Oh, and one more thing! Not all reputable schools charge 84K for a design degree.

 

[anim8or]

Never before have I seen such a hostile group of people. My goodness. Did all the 'designers' wake up on the wrong side of the bed today or what.

I don't think i have ever found a forum that doesn't have a majority of disgruntled designers who accuse everyone of having no formal training and criticise (not always constructively) the work on show.....

They all had it hard I guess and no one gets an easy ride.....

How else are people supposed to discover they have a talent for design until a twist of fate throws them a job on the side and they realise their love for it... that when they should go get trained up....

I think all you 'designers' should get off your high horses and try to be more accommodating to those who are asking advice

 

[game2]

Wow, a dual bachelors and you can't even spell?

Posted at 4 am buddy give me a break. It's okay ill save my money for something worthy

 

[Muncher]

Im sorry but if your taught that the London logo " is perfect" or an example im not sure what your teachers are teaching. Logo design altho a little different than art must be liked, and you simply cannot teach what is liked.

I don't think anyone is capable of saying that logo is perfect. It did, however, attract quite a bit of attention, even from outside the design industry. This is what it was probably meant to do (it was described as "vibrant," lol ), therefore it was successful. If you want to want to get a chocolate bar, and you blackmail someone into getting it for you, well, you still get your bar .

 

[sn00pie]

The last batch looks extremely unprofessional. I liked #2 the best. Throw out the blue and go with a red, it fits with the medical theme much more than a hue of blue will.

Don't take the criticism negatively because if this is something you want to pursue, you will need to get used to it and learn from it.

 

[THX1139]

Posted at 4 am buddy give me a break. It's okay ill save my money for something worthy

If you don't know what something is, then how do you know what it's worth?

It's posts like his - and you wonder why some designers have the attitudes that they have. There is a blatant disregard of educated designers on this forum; a very unfriendly environment for people who worked their butts off to get their degrees.

 

[stainlessliquid]

Never before have I seen such a hostile group of people. My goodness. Did all the 'designers' wake up on the wrong side of the bed today or what.

You must be new. This happens all the time.

You're coming to people when your work is 50% finished. It's not like it's almost there, and you only need a few eyes to help with the finishing touches. What you're essentially doing is this: Through asking questions, you're going to edit your work, take more of the advice, and just continue until you have something that has had a professional touch on it.

You're going to get this reaction from any field where something needs creativity, and an understanding of fundamentals, to create something that works.

Thats not true. Forums that are dedicated to design help people of all skill levels at all stages of the design, people are there to help each other because they know that theyll be able to ask for help as well. The snobs and people who just want to find a reason to brag about being a professional get shunned/banned out of those places pretty quick.

 

[HerbyGunther]

Let me guess, you have no formal training in graphic design? If not, then why are you doing this for money?

Sorry to say this, but this is such a stupid comment. I know a lot of professional designers who are talented and skilled as hell, who didn't had formal design training. It just takes hard work and dedication! Having had formal training doesn't mean you are good and vice versa.

 

[THX1139]

Sorry to say this, but this is such a stupid comment. I know a lot of professional designers who are talented and skilled as hell, who didn't had formal design training. It just takes hard work and dedication! Having had formal training doesn't mean you are good and vice versa.

Riggghhht... but those designers have real world EXPERIENCE and that gives them a reason to charge. They paid their dues to learn their craft. You took my comment out of context. The OP presented a logo that has all kinds of basic design errors that led me to believe he was a novice and shouldn't be charging money. I agree that there are other ways to be good at design than just going to school. Experience and natural talent go along way too. My argument has been that if you are new to (anything) and don't know what you are doing, then you have no business charging money for your services. If the OP would have posted his "logo" as practice and asking for crit, my response would have been different.

There are other ways to get good enough to be professional and charge for services. Go to school, or get an internship, or mentor under someone (preferably do all three!). Again, my argument has been that the amateurs and novices should not be charging money for services until they know the industry - of which I favor formal training in a reputable design school. Of course, my opinion on this led to all types of disdain for me and formally trained graphic designers; I felt the need to defend my position.

 

[stainlessliquid]

Riggghhht... but those designers have real world EXPERIENCE and that gives them a reason to charge. They paid their dues to learn their craft. You took my comment out of context. The OP presented a logo that has all kinds of basic design errors that led me to believe he was a novice and shouldn't be charging money. I agree that there are other ways to be good at design than just going to school. Experience and natural talent go along way too. My argument has been that if you are new to (anything) and don't know what you are doing, then you have no business charging money for your services. If the OP would have posted his "logo" as practice and asking for crit, my response would have been different.

There are other ways to get good enough to be professional and charge for services. Go to school, or get an internship, or mentor under someone (preferably do all three!). Again, my argument has been that the amateurs and novices should not be charging money for services until they know the industry - of which I favor formal training in a reputable design school. Of course, my opinion on this led to all types of disdain for me and formally trained graphic designers; I felt the need to defend my position.

So what youre saying is that people should do design for free? Somehow I think you would be objecting to that as well. Amateurs comping work always starts arguments here with people saying theyre ruining the industry.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Are you mean old designers still beating this poor kid up over asking for advice?

 

[EmperorDarius]

Riggghhht... but those designers have real world EXPERIENCE and that gives them a reason to charge. They paid their dues to learn their craft. You took my comment out of context. The OP presented a logo that has all kinds of basic design errors that led me to believe he was a novice and shouldn't be charging money. I agree that there are other ways to be good at design than just going to school. Experience and natural talent go along way too. My argument has been that if you are new to (anything) and don't know what you are doing, then you have no business charging money for your services. If the OP would have posted his "logo" as practice and asking for crit, my response would have been different.

There are other ways to get good enough to be professional and charge for services. Go to school, or get an internship, or mentor under someone (preferably do all three!). Again, my argument has been that the amateurs and novices should not be charging money for services until they know the industry - of which I favor formal training in a reputable design school. Of course, my opinion on this led to all types of disdain for me and formally trained graphic designers; I felt the need to defend my position.

What is someones wants to get a logo for (very) cheap? Better hire an amateur than do it by themselves.

 

[THX1139]

So what youre saying is that people should do design for free? Somehow I think you would be objecting to that as well. Amateurs comping work always starts arguments here with people saying theyre ruining the industry.

You are correct, I object to that as well. A large part of my argument has been that businesses should NOT be hiring amateurs to create their identity as a way to get off cheap. I think it takes money out of the pockets of legitimate designers who deserve to make a living. A business identity is probably the most important aspect of setting up a business. Why would anyone trust designing their business persona to an amateur?

Would you go to an amateur to have them give you a root canal if you could get it done cheaply?

People should not do design for free. As I said in my post above, amateurs can gain experience by going to school, mentorship, or internship.

 

[KeithPratt]

God, I thought I could resist posting in this thread...

My argument has been that if you are new to (anything) and don't know what you are doing, then you have no business charging money for your services. If the OP would have posted his "logo" as practice and asking for crit, my response would have been different.

The OP asked for some advice on his design, not the rules by which to live his life.

Would you go to an amateur to have them give you a root canal if you could get it done cheaply?

But that's the whole point isn't it — design is not like dentistry. Did you back off from "heart bypass" here, deciding it was too much?

Why would anyone trust designing their business persona to an amateur?

Rather than a design god like yourself? Can you truly not see the (barely) latent arrogance here that's rubbing people up the wrong way?

It doesn't matter how many times you restate or subtly modify what you've said earlier in the thread, the fact is a lot of people disagree with your comments and attitude.

 

[stainlessliquid]

Then how do you get experience? If they shouldnt be doing work for money without graduating from design school, and they shouldnt do work for free, then where is this experience coming from?

Would you go to an amateur to have them give you a root canal if you could get it done cheaply?

As a last resort, yes. Wouldnt you? Does Mary who brings home $25,000 a year after expenses running Mary's Gardening and Landscaping not deserve a logo and business card because she cant afford the $5,000 a design firm charges? A lot of designers assume every business is a multi million dollar corporation that can spend thousands of dollars on design work, when in reality a lot of small business owners are just as broke as any normal person making 15 bucks an hour after expenses and outrageous taxes. People without much money have 2 options, they can either find an amateur that knows how to design or do root canals even if they arent very good at it, or they can go without a design or a root canal and suffer the consequences. Its not always an issue of a business being cheap and taking advantage of a designer, it can mean the difference between spending thousands of dollars on a fancy website or spending thousands of dollars on equipment you need to do your job. These people need SOME money to live on you know.

 

[Daremo]

I've been a graphic artist for almost 19 years now. I've worked in all aspects of the print industry, from film stripper, to desktop publisher, head designer, and Art Department foreman for a high end commercial printer for many years (one of the first in Illinois to use Staccato printing.) I attended some college but 19 years ago, where things were very different then today. I evolved with the technology, and continue to be self taught.

This thread is interesting to me. I agree and disagree with a lot of both sides on this. I think there's a good line right in the middle where it should all sit.

Sometimes, it's impossible to get real world experience on design. What I used to do was design projects just for the practice. If they turned out good, they would make it into my portfolio. New designers can gain experience, without clients. Just look at a product, and design for it. Take a car photo, and try to create a magazine quality add. Even go as far as to have your family and friends make up a fake company name, and what this fake company does, and create an identity for it.

There's ways to get good at your craft without stepping on peoples toes. Where I agree, if someone is willing to pay you money, do the best you can to earn that money, BUT, make sure you can offer them their moneys worth, and the only way to do that is first get decent at your craft.

Basically, if the OP wants to be a designer, there are many ways to do it without formal training, but they're going to need to put in the time and practice.

 

[OutThere]

Then how do you get experience? If they shouldnt be doing work for money without graduating from design school, and they shouldnt do work for free, then where is this experience coming from?


As a last resort, yes. Wouldnt you? Does Mary who brings home $25,000 a year after expenses running Mary's Gardening and Landscaping not deserve a logo and business card because she cant afford the $5,000 a design firm charges? A lot of designers assume every business is a multi million dollar corporation that can spend thousands of dollars on design work, when in reality a lot of small business owners are just as broke as any normal person making 15 bucks an hour after expenses and outrageous taxes. People without much money have 2 options, they can either find an amateur that knows how to design or do root canals even if they arent very good at it, or they can go without a design or a root canal and suffer the consequences. Its not always an issue of a business being cheap and taking advantage of a designer, it can mean the difference between spending thousands of dollars on a fancy website or spending thousands of dollars on equipment you need to do your job. These people need SOME money to live on you know.

Well said.


The degree of elitism in this thread is deafening. Anyone with half an eye on the design world knows there are tons of hacks out there with plenty of degrees and experience. Distinguish yourself from them by the quality of your work, not by s***ting on newcomers on an internet forum.

 

[THX1139]

God, I thought I could resist posting in this thread...



The OP asked for some advice on his design, not the rules by which to live his life.



But that's the whole point isn't it — design is not like dentistry. Did you back off from "heart bypass" here, deciding it was too much?



Rather than a design god like yourself? Can you truly not see the (barely) latent arrogance here that's rubbing people up the wrong way?

It doesn't matter how many times you restate or subtly modify what you've said earlier in the thread, the fact is a lot of people disagree with your comments and attitude.

Wow, I don't know how to respond to your personal insults without getting banned, so I'll just leave it at that.

I've decided that this thread is a waste of my time and I won't be back. There is no sense in trying to convince a bunch of strangers the value of getting formal training in graphic design. I just wish I could be there on the day your cousin Sal can't deliver on that $50 logo he promised and you just can't understand why.

 

[mwchris]

Can't handle a taste of your own medicine? Whether you believe it or not, more likely not, you have insulted the original poster, other "designers", and everyone else who has disagreed with you in this thread.

I think what is so interesting that you are so concerned about the fact that someone who has no formal training is being compensated for there time, regardless of how big or small it is.

Everyone's TIME is a valuable thing, and is worth something!

Spend less time worrying about others and how you feel they are going to fail and you will most likely have more TIME, which means more MONEY!


OH, and . . .

SNIP...

I'll end this by saying that I'm sorry if I offended anyone. ....

Wow, I don't know how to respond to your personal insults without getting banned, so I'll just leave it at that.

I've decided that this thread is a waste of my time and I won't be back. ...

Heard that before!

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I'm surprised this is still going on...

I thought the horse was dead long ago...

Well no one has posted NO!SPEC so I though it might be a good idea to interject some more trolls to the thread

 

[usclaneyj]

Since it looks like usclaneyj is not going to answer, I will offer you this.

Take off your designer hat and put on your investor hat for a moment.

Conservative, responsible, integrity, professional, honest, etc. come to mind which is what I want with my funds/money!

The line on the left and underneath the words indicate a run chart -- one of the most popular charts used by investors. Additionally, if you look at it as an investor, it shows an up tick and down tick which portrays a realistic approach since the market go up and down and is rarely static. By having the upper part in the middle, the logo gives the impression of growth.

Granted different fonts might be used. Possibly a different color. But for a first time out, the OP created a decent logo.

Sorry for not checking these forums quickly enough for you, Sush.

I'm unsure what line you're referring to. I never made mention of a line in my post. Maybe you mean the one in macdaddy's original design?

Now on to the box issue: There is nothing wrong with using a box to draw focus to an important word, such as "Growth". But psychologically, the size of the box & the lack of generous margins create a feeling of confinement. When something is confined to a small box, it is unable to grow (ie - Chinese foot-binding, Bonsai trees, large fish in small fish tanks, etc). The typeface lacks action and visual interest, and the kerning causes these issues to become more obvious. Framing said issues in a box only heightens their conspicuousness.

For the record, I'm not the type of person to begrudge someone their chance at becoming a graphic designer. I fully hope that the OP is continuing to refine their skills and glean useful information from criticisms that they *will* receive when they ask for help.