New Apple TV model

[oneMadRssn]

Streaming is incredibly convenient if you have the internet speed. I use it on my Xbox to save space all the time.

In recent years though there has been a lot of pushback from enthusiasts about the idea of licence purchase, ownership and perpetually renting things forever. California recently passed a law meaning that digital storefronts have to make it clear that buyers are only ever purchasing a licence and not at actual product, meaning buyers of plastic discs suddenly have a lot more rights over what they do with infinitely copiable computer code than digital buyers.

In other words there has been a lot to say from the community about having faceless corporations as the sole gatekeepers of software. Look at what has happened with TV: programs disappearing forever to prevent residuals with no physical release. Due to outdated copyright laws to gaming has already become commoditised; do we want a future where we can only play what Microsoft or Google deem their time to be worth?

You don't need to convince me that streaming is anti-consumer and overall an inferior way of consuming media, I believe it fully.

But I also understand that enthusiasts and those in "the community" are a tiny minority. Most people are sold on the convenience of streaming - no big dollar hardware purchases, no messing with physical discs, nothing to administer and keep updated and backed up; just click and watch/game.

As I said, I think PC gaming will continue to exist basically forever. It's a large enough market, and they tend to be the most willing to spend big bucks. But I think console gaming as we know it (local real-time rendering, offline playing, loss-leader hardware sales) is going to be replaced by streaming within the next ~10 years.

At this point, it's pretty clear there is not going to be another Xbox for local gaming. The PS6 might be the last local-play Playstation if there is even ever a PS6. Nintendo and other mobile-type console gaming will continue to exist. But big budget latest-and-greatest graphics AAA releases will be streaming-only pretty soon.

The last piece of the puzzle is revenue-sharing--how much does Apple charge Sony, Microsoft, nVidia, etc. for the privilege of distributing their apps on the App Store? That's where the fight has been for a while. To that end, I think Apple is fairly well-positioned with the most valuable App Store and constantly on the forefront of implementing the latest Wifi tech. When the business issues are resolved, and Wifi7 is out and adopted en mass, I think the days of unboxing the latest console on Christmas morning will be over.

 

[Ctrlos]

You don't need to convince me that streaming is anti-consumer and overall an inferior way of consuming media, I believe it fully.

But I also understand that enthusiasts and those in "the community" are a tiny minority. Most people are sold on the convenience of streaming - no big dollar hardware purchases, no messing with physical discs, nothing to administer and keep updated and backed up; just click and watch/game.

As I said, I think PC gaming will continue to exist basically forever. It's a large enough market, and they tend to be the most willing to spend big bucks. But I think console gaming as we know it (local real-time rendering, offline playing, loss-leader hardware sales) is going to be replaced by streaming within the next ~10 years.

At this point, it's pretty clear there is not going to be another Xbox for local gaming. The PS6 might be the last local-play Playstation if there is even ever a PS6. Nintendo and other mobile-type console gaming will continue to exist. But big budget latest-and-greatest graphics AAA releases will be streaming-only pretty soon.

The last piece of the puzzle is revenue-sharing--how much does Apple charge Sony, Microsoft, nVidia, etc. for the privilege of distributing their apps on the App Store? That's where the fight has been for a while. To that end, I think Apple is fairly well-positioned with the most valuable App Store and constantly on the forefront of implementing the latest Wifi tech. When the business issues are resolved, and Wifi7 is out and adopted en mass, I think the days of unboxing the latest console on Christmas morning will be over.

Whilst there are diminishing returns chasing higher resolutions, I reckon Sony and Microsoft are going to both launch handhelds in the near future. The Switch and Steamdeck have both proven that they remain popular, and there is an acceptable limit to the graphics people accept in handhelds as the tradeoff for decent battery life. Its a way to sidestep the limitations of under the TV boxes and offering gamers a different way to play.

If Sony bought out a PSP3 that played all my PS4 downloads I'd bite their hand off.

 

[kiranmk2]

At this point, it's pretty clear there is not going to be another Xbox for local gaming. The PS6 might be the last local-play Playstation if there is even ever a PS6. Nintendo and other mobile-type console gaming will continue to exist. But big budget latest-and-greatest graphics AAA releases will be streaming-only pretty soon.

I think there will still be local console gaming for at least another console generation. The PS5 Pro is showing where things are going - the advancement of ML cores and AI will allow the next gen of consoles to reconstruct a 4k image from 1080p-1440p internally rendered content. The current generation released just too early to get the hardware to do this and had to rely of FSR 2 which is a pretty poor upscaler as it doesn't utilse ML hardware. The PS5 Pro is showing what can be done with some dedicated ML cores and Sony's own PSSR upscaler. I can imagine a PS6/next XBox using a Zen 6 CPU and RDNA5/6 GPU with a chunky NPU to enable better image quality than currently possible (full path tracing?) and 60 fps in most games due to a lower internal render than the current generation.

 

[oneMadRssn]

I think there will still be local console gaming for at least another console generation. The PS5 Pro is showing where things are going - the advancement of ML cores and AI will allow the next gen of consoles to reconstruct a 4k image from 1080p-1440p internally rendered content. The current generation released just too early to get the hardware to do this and had to rely of FSR 2 which is a pretty poor upscaler as it doesn't utilse ML hardware. The PS5 Pro is showing what can be done with some dedicated ML cores and Sony's own PSSR upscaler. I can imagine a PS6/next XBox using a Zen 6 CPU and RDNA5/6 GPU with a chunky NPU to enable better image quality than currently possible (full path tracing?) and 60 fps in most games due to a lower internal render than the current generation.

I don't dispute that there might be another PS6, but I think it's pretty clear there isn't going to be another Xbox. Also, look at the specs you listed - it's a gaming PC at this point.

Also, fwiw, tech like ML/AI upscaling is particularly great for game streaming where bandwidth and latency are the constraining factors. So while this tech might find a first life on next-gen consoles, it will ultimately be the thing that enables game streaming.

 

[kiranmk2]

I don't dispute that there might be another PS6, but I think it's pretty clear there isn't going to be another Xbox. Also, look at the specs you listed - it's a gaming PC at this point.

Also, fwiw, tech like ML/AI upscaling is particularly great for game streaming where bandwidth and latency are the constraining factors. So while this tech might find a first life on next-gen consoles, it will ultimately be the thing that enables game streaming.

Microsoft have already come out confirming a next gen XBox will be coming with "the largest technical leap you will have ever seen in a hardware generation." - https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/15/24073723/microsoft-xbox-next-gen-hardware-phil-spencer-handheld

Also, when the PS5/Series X launched, they were at or above average gaming PC standard at the time. Even today, the PS5 Pro at £699 probably requires a £1k+ PC to match its performance.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Microsoft have already come out confirming a next gen XBox will be coming with "the largest technical leap you will have ever seen in a hardware generation." - https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/15/24073723/microsoft-xbox-next-gen-hardware-phil-spencer-handheld

Also, when the PS5/Series X launched, they were at or above average gaming PC standard at the time. Even today, the PS5 Pro at £699 probably requires a £1k+ PC to match its performance.

Regarding the next-gen Xbox, the article goes on to speculate that it might be a handheld. And generally Microsoft is cagey and vague with their announcement that the next-gen hardware could just be a low-power end-points (set-top boxes or handhelds) to access their cloud gaming service. I think that would surprise nobody.

Regarding the comparison to PC, this has been a debate as old as time. Of course a comparable PC will cost more than a single-purpose gaming device at first - a comparable PC can also do a whole lot more. And Sony/Microsoft have been pretty clear that at first the hardware is a loss-leader - they lose money on each sale at first in hopes of making it back up on the subscription services and game distribution revenue later. (Since you like The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit Sony was selling the PS5 for less than it cost to produce it for the first 6 months, the PS4 for 6 months, and the PS3 for years, same with Microsoft).

 

[kiranmk2]

Regarding the next-gen Xbox, the article goes on to speculate that it might be a handheld. And generally Microsoft is cagey and vague with their announcement that the next-gen hardware could just be a low-power end-points (set-top boxes or handhelds) to access their cloud gaming service. I think that would surprise nobody.

Regarding the comparison to PC, this has been a debate as old as time. Of course a comparable PC will cost more than a single-purpose gaming device at first - a comparable PC can also do a whole lot more. And Sony/Microsoft have been pretty clear that at first the hardware is a loss-leader - they lose money on each sale at first in hopes of making it back up on the subscription services and game distribution revenue later. (Since you like The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit Sony was selling the PS5 for less than it cost to produce it for the first 6 months, the PS4 for 6 months, and the PS3 for years, same with Microsoft).

I think everyone can agree that "largest generational leap" and "handheld" don't go together. My opinion is that at a new XBox will launch alongside a PS6 and instead of a Series S-like machine we will get an XBox Handheld like the SteamDeck. I'd hazard a guess that it will be about as powerful as a PS4 Pro (or maybe XBox One X) but with Series X/PS5 features (RT, mesh shaders etc) and ML cores - a 800p-1080p screen should allow ~720p internal rendering, reconstructed up to native res.

There are all kinds of theories about Microsoft abandoning hardware to become a 3rd party publisher (they are now in a situation where a lot of their tent-pole games will not only come of PS5, but will look and play better on PS5 Pro compared to the Series X), but remember all the leaks that came from the Activision acquisition trials - the plans for next gen consoles were well underway.

There is also clearly an issue with trying to get the production costs of the consoles down. With previous generations, the launch of a "slim" model 2-3 years into the generation was largely accompanies by a price cut (and the mid-gen One X/PS4 Pro launching at the base model's original price). This time around, the only RRP cuts have been when clearing stock (e.g. the non-slim PS5 or the 512GB Series S) - the PS5 slim still costs around the same as the launch PS5 and the PS5 Pro is definitely not launching at the PS5 original launch price...

 

[oneMadRssn]

I think everyone can agree that "largest generational leap" and "handheld" don't go together. My opinion is that at a new XBox will launch alongside a PS6 and instead of a Series S-like machine we will get an XBox Handheld like the SteamDeck. I'd hazard a guess that it will be about as powerful as a PS4 Pro (or maybe XBox One X) but with Series X/PS5 features (RT, mesh shaders etc) and ML cores - a 800p-1080p screen should allow ~720p internal rendering, reconstructed up to native res.

There are all kinds of theories about Microsoft abandoning hardware to become a 3rd party publisher (they are now in a situation where a lot of their tent-pole games will not only come of PS5, but will look and play better on PS5 Pro compared to the Series X), but remember all the leaks that came from the Activision acquisition trials - the plans for next gen consoles were well underway.

There is also clearly an issue with trying to get the production costs of the consoles down. With previous generations, the launch of a "slim" model 2-3 years into the generation was largely accompanies by a price cut (and the mid-gen One X/PS4 Pro launching at the base model's original price). This time around, the only RRP cuts have been when clearing stock (e.g. the non-slim PS5 or the 512GB Series S) - the PS5 slim still costs around the same as the launch PS5 and the PS5 Pro is definitely not launching at the PS5 original launch price...

Fair enough, we'll see. Comprehensive and well-functioning cloud gaming would be a huge generational leap though.

 

[kiranmk2]

Fair enough, we'll see. Comprehensive and well-functioning cloud gaming would be a huge generational leap though.

I would love cloud streaming to take off and have been keeping an eye on it since Sony bought Gaikai, but even though Sony have continued to invest and we also have the MS xcloud and nVidia GeForce Now but nothing has yet broken through. Whether its the latency of the general public's desire to use dedicated local hardware, I'm not sure. I would have thought the ability to simply buy a PS5/Xbox controller and pair it to your TV/Apple TV etc and stream games without having to sped $400-$500 on a console would have been very appealing.

If latency is the problem, then there may well be mileage in the ML-based latency reducing techniques that are currently employed in frame generation techniques on modern GPUs.

 

[OverTheHill]

DTS please. Disney+ has implemented it, but it’s still ATMOS on the AppleTV. Tons of movies in DTS that have been converted to Dolby Digital for streaming. Part of the problem is DTS themselves, but Apple should be working with them to get the catalog updated and provide a device to support it.

 

[pdmpolishing]

Just want to see a new Apple TV with the ability to control sound output to multiple HomePods for Surround sound not just as it is now stereo fronts, and oh yes be able to play True HD, DTS MA and so on.

 

[gonidog]

Hopefully AI will help with "the ability to control sound output to multiple HomePods"... We will see??? I am hoping for both software and hardware updates next week...???? Combined Apple TV with a soundbar. I would like to see improved gaming, stand up gaming a la Kinect with camera/lidar, improved Siri and easy to work FaceTime. All the pieces are there, they just need to put it all together with an A18/M4 chip.

 

[wilderkun]

How about this

2024/25 - Apple TV SE - A17 Pro Chip
2024/25 - Apple TV Max - M1 Chip
2024/25 - Apple TV Pro - M4 Chip

Apple TV SE is a Streaming Stick also can be used as a multi screen device paired with a “Home/Slave” box which enables all home TV’s to be a Apple home TV’s running TVOS. Utilising the storage of the main box.

This could be useful when using Apple TV when connecting to a TV provider such as EETV in the UK 🇬🇧.

All have Apple intelligence hence chip choices

All have at least a 3yr life if not a lot lot more.

Apple TV SE (New Streaming Stick) - £79/$79/€79 - 64GB or 128GB

Apple TV Max to replace current 2022 4K box - £150/$150/€150 - 256GB

Apple TV Pro (New) to run games and anything more intense Apps
£199/$199/€199 - 1TB

Maybe also a Soundbar with a cutout for the addition of one of these boxes. Would also work as a standalone like the HomePods

This kills the Firestick & Roku boxes etc.

And if side loading is let in then this wins all battles - ALL apps available.

Also a wildcard addition - Apple VPN to give users total worldwide Privacy & Anonymity.

The idea of a stick doesn’t make any sense. With the stick you couldn’t have the same chip, and Apple TV+, airplay, and sometimes iTunes, are available on almost all new TVs. There’s no reason to have a stick if it didn’t have an A chip

 

[DJHB1980]

The stick option is the best way for Apple to get their service into homes and into more rooms in those homes.
£170 per box per room is expensive and when cabling is taken into account people just think Roku or firestiick is better option and it is or use the built in.
Apple consumers want their personal devices and a shared box in main living room is good to a point which is why a lot of houses have a multi room extra be it on Sky or Virgin or EE or just multiple fire & Roku sticks or express which is easy and convenient and cost effective.

The sub £100 stick is very appealing to this demographic which Apple is completely ignoring.

I would swap out all my firessticks and Rokus to a main Apple TV box and hdmi sticks if available

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Just want to see a new Apple TV with the ability to control sound output to multiple HomePods for Surround sound not just as it is now stereo fronts, and oh yes be able to play True HD, DTS MA and so on.

Why wait for this? Apple has NEVER shown any interest in going this way at all. There is not 1 rumor about this.

If you want it now, use any HPs that you have as originally intended: as MUSIC speakers. But yourself a Receiver and up to true ATMOS "dumb speakers" and have a superior home theater today.

HPs are great and all but Apple doesn't seem to want to go "there." But others have long since been there. IMO: best option is a Receiver and "dumb speakers." However, if one wants "smart" speakers, there are other providers who already have the whole home theater layout implemented and functional. Bonus: their FOCUS in on speakers. It's not an afterthought line.

Besides, should Apple choose to try to do this, 2 HPs + 2 HP minis is only a 4.0 setup. Where's the Sub? Where's the crucial Center channel, especially important for spoken dialogue? And if one wants true ATMOS, where's the overhead speakers? HP fantasies are a LONG way from just a basic 5.1 surround setup... which has existed since the early 1990s. If you want it, it's abundantly available right now. Just "think different" and you could be enjoying true home theater audio as soon as tonight.

BONUS: since "dumb" speakers don't completely rely on "smarts" likely to be vintaged in a few years, one can enjoy good dumb speakers for upwards of decades. They can sound as good in 2044 or 2054 as they sound in 2024. Get it right one time and they will outlast ANYTHING we can buy from Apple... including anything at far greater expense.

 

[bozzykid]

The stick option is the best way for Apple to get their service into homes and into more rooms in those homes.

The best way is to support all the major TV and streaming platforms which they already do. I'm not sure Apple has ever taken the Apple TV hardware very seriously.