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With the language essentially saying, if you choose to sideload, you're on your own if your phone is compromised or you suffer from being hacked or damaged in some manner (privacy.security, losing money, etc). Along with an "I agree" button.

What would that change? As far as I know Apple does not make good the damage e.g. from apps on the app store, that spy on me.

Imagine a car manufacturer dictating its customers what they can and can't do with their car. Would any customer accept that? Would people say that you could just buy a car from another brand?

I can not not change the software on my in car navigation system or the software controlling my engine.

What does iMessage interoperability mean ? iMessage supports SMS, should it support some standard image format ? Or should all others support iMessage formats ? What about end-to-end encryption ?

That would probably allow apps like WhatsApp to get my data, even if I do notbuse them.
 
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I get this impression that-- to comply with the EU should this be enforced-- Apple will create a fork of iOS/iPadOS for the EU market, perhaps "hobbled" in some fashion.

I mean, it's what I'd prefer to happen. And as others have said, should certain apps choose to leave and be available only through alternative means, you move away from them. The heightened competition should (in theory) force Apple's hand, making them further improve their stock applications.

Quite the turning point we're watching unfold here...
I doubt it will be forked since that would create too much work for the software developers you would need to write a separate watch OS, iPadOS, and iOS separately from the rest of the world which would bring that total to 6 from 3. My guess is these changes would be applied worldwide.
 
Good for you. But for others who use iMessage and prefer not to use SMS or Android, they have no choice but to accept Apple's monopoly dominance over iPhone/iPad App distribution. And in a few months, that dominance will come to an end. Also, Apple doesn't lock down the Mac in the same way as the iPad even though the Mac and the iPad have the same exact M1 and M2 chips. Why?
No choice? There are dozens of cross-platform messaging systems.

Do you even know what choice is? Don’t hit the toggle. Why is this so hard?
Perhaps instead of repeating the question over an over, you can some of the dozens of responses to this argument. Again, a choice is removed (everything in one place) in addition to the choices that are added. Since 80% of the global market already has the options that you want, some of us prefer that the other choice continues to exist.

Which is also a distinct possibility. Some devs would use it, and like I've said, most probably wouldn't. In any case I feel like Android is a pretty good case study of how this would shake out; from the consumer standpoint, very little would change, except in a very small subset of cases which would probably see a slight improvement in the customer's eyes. App Store pricing already being ridiculously low is a separate issue all together, but it does serve to highlight the idea that there isn't much room for individual developers or small teams to innovate in the App Store ecosystem anymore.

I recognize that's an industry-wide problem, not just an issue in the App Store. But it speaks to the commoditization of people's time, which is a rabbit-hole unto itself.
I agree with that.

The issue I'm having is that I don't see many places where it could negatively affect customers, and I do see one specific area where it might benefit them; app stores that don't exist yet. Forcing Apple to do this will shed light on the concept of third-party app stores in the public eye, which might enable as-yet-unknown players to come in and do something interesting in the space of "being an app store".

Will that happen? No idea. But the possibility remains that it could be a major improvement for users, and given that the only thing being negatively affected is Apple's bottom line, I'm not against seeing where this winds up.
I think the negatives have been mentioned a bunch. Having to search more than one place. Piracy. Privacy. Malware. Trust. Stability.

As far as innovations in "being an app store", we already have 80% of the global market as a playground to try out new things in that area. To date, nobody cares.

OEMs license the Android OS to use on their devices with some tweaks (if desired) allowed. 99%+ of current smartphones run either iOS or Android.
Again, Brave and Chrome are different browsers based on the chromium open source project. Same thing applies to OS based on the android open source project.

Those who want to stay with iOS and prefer a single app store can still use a single app store. That choice is not taken away.
Sure, but that's not the choice being talked about. As mentioned over and over and over again, the choice being taken away is the one to have all apps available from a single app store.

However, those who want to stay with iOS but would prefer to use an alternative app store or multiple app stores don’t have that choice. Apple should give a choice to their customers similar to how Android smartphone OEMs give a choice to their customers.
But as we just discussed, that's an incredibly small percentage of users who don't need to be pandered to.
 
It means that Apple will have to allow other platforms a way to send messages to and receive messages from iMessage users.

The same will likely be true of the other big chat platforms as well.

Basically, someone could make a near-universal chat client that supports almost all of the chat platforms if they wanted to

This is actually how it should be, if you ask me. Looking at phone systems (wired or wireless network)... one "system" that many competitor devices can connect to. Consumers don't need to worry about the network. It just works, much like how the internet as a whole is generic and robust. Consumers are free to choose handsets (aka. "chat clients") that best suit their preferences and needs, and they interoperate with others seamlessly. But how would a company monetize this?
 
What would that change? As far as I know Apple does not make good the damage e.g. from apps on the app store, that spy on me.

Sounds like you're aware of apps that spy on you. And that you're OK with that otherwise you would not install such apps - or at least would remove them as soon as you became aware of such apps spying on you.

Apple does reject a lot of apps annually:

 
This is a horrible example since the average user can’t sideload anything at the moment.

Money is a powerful motivator. If you can get something for free, why not? I often see non-techie elderly folks that boast about having side-loaded software on their computers so they don't have to pay. They've figured it out, but they don't understand it. And they are also often the ones falling victim to compromises.
 
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Good news!!! Apple advertises the Mac as secure yet has open app stores, side loading AKA installing whatever you want. What makes the iphone so different? NOBODY is forcing you to do these on your phone if you don’t want to.
What makes it different? An always connected set of sensors in your pocket, owned by over a billion people! It isn’t even close to being comparable.
 
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You do realise that majority of the people who sideload apps are the ones who sideload cracked/pirated apps? How is that any good for the developers on iOS
I install apps outside the MAS all the time. Not a single one is cracked/pirated due to moral ethical and security concerns on my part.

==============
With that said, I wonder how that would affect the ability for people to actually hack or bypass the iOS App Store with apps that choose not to move to a 3rd party as having an official channel of side loading would make it easier for people to get direct access to IPAs for piracy purposes.
 
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Would love to sit by in an Apple meeting just to see the angry top management faces discussing this. 🤣

Personally I’m looking forward to:

  • Sideloading for e.g. a decent firewall, advanced development tools, decent terminal, etc.
  • Alternative AppStores, maybe we get Steam for iOS, decent Xbox Cloud version
  • Alternative Browser Engine with AddBlocker e.g. Firefox incl. Gecko and uBlock.
Thanks EU!
Told ya it’s coming… 😛
 
Would love to sit by in an Apple meeting just to see the angry top management faces discussing this. 🤣

Personally I’m looking forward to:

  • Sideloading for e.g. a decent firewall, advanced development tools, decent terminal, etc.
  • Alternative AppStores, maybe we get Steam for iOS, decent Xbox Cloud version
  • Alternative Browser Engine with AddBlocker e.g. Firefox incl. Gecko and uBlock.
Thanks EU!
Told ya it’s coming… 😛
the fact you think that sideloading will enable any of that is funny.
 
And to all people who defend the walled garden of Apple: If the EU really allowed that behaviour, Google could also decide to no longer accept apps from unknown sources. Then consumers only had the chance between two walled gardens and both without nipples.
Works for me!
 
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The fact you think it won’t is even funnier.
Just like it was very funny to see all the angry faces, laughing faces, when i posted that DMA, DSA and RightToRe-air would pass without any problem.
its wildly obvious you have no clue what you are saying if you just posted this, sideloading does not open up the OS to do anything you want.
 
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Not a lot of people would bat an eye. Most people here use WhatsApp.
It's Apple that would lose a selling point.
Yeah, Apple is not going to do that. I do wonder what the ‘acceptable means of compliance’ will be. And especially for the Facebook, Whatsapp and Telegram platforms.
 
Apple bought this on themselves through pure greed and a sense of entitlement.

Before I start to criticise Apple, I am here on these forums as hugely admire Apple's hardware and OS level software.

I'll always celebrate Apple when it brings out amazing products such as the new Macs, the new iPhones etc. etc.

But I think it's fair to criticise them when they deserve it.

I feel that its Services is a massive source of rot, which is damaging Apple as company.

So the EU are right to act as they are in this case (when they will almost certainly name Apple as a gatekeeper).

Services is obviously a high margin business that is growing as iPhone revenue is starting to slow, which is why Tim Cook is letting it happen.

Of course, it's business school basics that if you can get extra revenue from your existing customers and still keep them, you should.

And in fact the duty of the CEO - who in reality, works for the shareholders - to maximise revenue.

But the CEO can also make the argument to the shareholders, that gaining every extra $ can sometimes be the long term detriment of the company.

Tim Cook seems to be unwilling to make this argument, which I simply don't like, as I believe that he is profoundly wrong not to.

***

The App Store at the start, was fantastic and allowed devs to reach a huge audience and not have to set up billing and distribution systems. Consumers got a (mostly!) safe curated store.

Nowadays the App Store seems more about Apple jealously guarding its revenue from it and using it as a platform to claw additional incremental revenue - App Store ads, even more App Store ads and clamping down on anyone trying to sell anything without giving Apple their cut - NFTs and so on.

I haven't got an MBA, but I'm aware that as products and markets reach maturity, different rules & norms come into play and that fair competition has to be ensured and companies generally don't enjoy as high margins as before.

It also encourages companies to create new products and not just sit on their 'gold mine', which is all for the good.

This is exactly what the EU is aiming to ensure.

Apple is behaving although this simply doesn't apply to them and that they don't have to budge an inch.

***

And as for security: as many have pointed out, the Mac uses notarisation.

And there has still been security issues on the App Store.

Just the other month, there was an issue with apps being able to store Facebook login credentials. Why didn't Apple catch that? There's numerous other examples too, just search for them.

The reason is, is because the App Store isn't really about curation and user safety as a priority anymore. It's about - yes you've guessed it - revenue. For Apple.

As for sideloading other App Stores. Well, you won't have to. And if a store gets a bad reputation, just like real life stores no-one will use them.

Having said that, I will concede a point in Apple's defence though & agree with some other posters here - there will be a lot of scams from 3rd party app stores.

But I can't help thinking that we wouldn't have got to this point if Apple had compromised.

But it refused to, as revenue was more important to it than the longer term health of the product. And now there's going to consequences for us all, including Apple (at least in the EU!).

***

P.S. I'm in the UK so this may or not apply to me (depending on which government is in place and if Apple decide to only apply these rules in the EU only), nor am I a dev etc. so I have no skin in the game, so to speak.
 
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Torrent client as well.
Would love to sit by in an Apple meeting just to see the angry top management faces discussing this. 🤣

Personally I’m looking forward to:

  • Sideloading for e.g. a decent firewall, advanced development tools, decent terminal, etc.
  • Alternative AppStores, maybe we get Steam for iOS, decent Xbox Cloud version
  • Alternative Browser Engine with AddBlocker e.g. Firefox incl. Gecko and uBlock.
Thanks EU!
Told ya it’s coming… 😛
 
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Reactions: sorgo †
Would love to sit by in an Apple meeting just to see the angry top management faces discussing this. 🤣

Personally I’m looking forward to:

  • Sideloading for e.g. a decent firewall, advanced development tools, decent terminal, etc.
  • Alternative AppStores, maybe we get Steam for iOS, decent Xbox Cloud version
  • Alternative Browser Engine with AddBlocker e.g. Firefox incl. Gecko and uBlock.
Thanks EU!
Told ya it’s coming… 😛
I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed in the likely event Apple announces that they will enforce the exact same rules on sideloaded apps and alternate app stores that they do on App Store apps. In addition to "platform fees" that maintain the status quo.
 
its wildly obvious you have no clue what you are saying if you just posted this
But yes, i hope you’re right and Apple don’t bend over.

I will LMAOROFL once Apple get the 10% of annual worldwide turnover fine and then 20% in a loop or even a full sales stop EU wide.
 
It will be interesting o see how this gets implemented by the major companies; especially outside of Apple. There appears to be a lot of wiggle room for what a gatekeeper actually must do.I suspect a lot of litigation out of this rule.
 
I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed in the likely event Apple announces that they will enforce the exact same rules on sideloaded apps and alternate app stores that they do on App Store apps. In addition to "platform fees" that maintain the status quo.
If Apple tries that they will face immediate Enforcment actions by the EU for violating their rules on allowing sideloading on their devices since Apple cannot apply any rules on apps not installed thru the Apple App store.
 
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