New EU Law Could Force Apple to Allow Other App Stores, Sideloading, and iMessage Interoperability

[DanTheMan827]

the fact you think that sideloading will enable any of that is funny.

Why wouldn't it?

• A loopback VPN connection can be used to block outgoing communications, but this I don't believe is allowed on the App Store
• Sideloading will mean apps like development environments will be able to run
• Terminals already exist for iOS...
• Explicitly allowed are alternative app stores
• The only reason alternative browser engines can't run is because Apple says they can't in order to retain control of web apps and to limit them, there is no technical reason.

The only thing preventing these things from being possible is Apple gatekeeping the App Store.

 

[BaldiMac]

If Apple tries that they will face immediate Enforcment actions by the EU for violating their rules on allowing sideloading on their devices since Apple cannot apply any rules on apps not installed thru the Apple App store.

Source? I didn't see anything on the linked DMA website that implied Apple couldn't have platform rules. It would be downright dangerous for the EU to require that iOS run unsigned apps.

 

[Stunning_Sense4712]

Not to mention you can most likely install a VM and run Windows or a Linux distro on an iPad with sideloading as well to.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I can just picture a few Germans sitting around their wood burning stove this winter to keep warm, grateful that the EU has mandated side loading apps and the use of the USB-C cable to plug in their phones. Anxiously waiting for either the wind to blow, or the sun to rise, so that that the electricity will come back on, and they can recharge the iPhone using the USB-C mandated cable. I heard there is an app out there you can side load, that gives you some locations to buy coal rather than wood to heat with! Again many thanks to the EU for looking out for me.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Would love to sit by in an Apple meeting just to see the angry top management faces discussing this. 🤣

Personally I’m looking forward to:

• Sideloading for e.g. a decent firewall, advanced development tools, decent terminal, etc.
• Alternative AppStores, maybe we get Steam for iOS, decent Xbox Cloud version
• Alternative Browser Engine with AddBlocker e.g. Firefox incl. Gecko and uBlock.

Thanks EU!
Told ya it’s coming… 😛

I told them too and I kept getting dislikes for it. Well at least the coping will be fun to watch while I'm having fun with alt app stores and the fun stuff Apple doesn't allow on the App Store, like home screen themes. There's some Persona 5 themes I've been itching to try but couldn't since my iPhone isn't jailbroken.

 

[DanTheMan827]

I doubt it will be forked since that would create too much work for the software developers you would need to write a separate watch OS, iPadOS, and iOS separately from the rest of the world which would bring that total to 6 from 3. My guess is these changes would be applied worldwide.

Even if it's only possible to sideload apps from EU developers worldwide, that would be a huge win.

But somehow, I have a feeling that Apple will geolock the feature to only devices initially set up in the EU, or perhaps certain SKUs only sold in the EU.

 

[Stunning_Sense4712]

Source? I didn't see anything on the linked DMA website that implied Apple couldn't have platform rules. It would be downright dangerous for the EU to require that iOS run unsigned apps.

Apple cannot dictate what software developers can do when not installing officially thru the Apple App store and have no legal agreements to force them to comply with any regulations Apple might want.

 

[NervousFish2]

It’s hard to imagine there aren’t talks at this point of Apple just removing iMessage functionality entirely in the EU as a flippant response. Sosumi.

Not going to happen. That market is way too big. There is no "flippant" response of this nature that would not result in apple upsetting a lot of loyal customers.

 

[NervousFish2]

So it will be much easier to spy on citizens.

EU tends to be much better on civil liberties than state governments

 

[DanTheMan827]

I told them too and I kept getting dislikes for it. Well at least the coping will be fun to watch while I'm having fun with alt app stores and the fun stuff Apple doesn't allow on the App Store, like home screen themes. There's some Persona 5 themes I've been itching to try but couldn't since my iPhone isn't jailbroken.

I don't see why this would require a jailbroken device... it's just a bunch of shortcuts with custom icons and a custom wallpaper.

Use the shortcuts app to create a shortcut that opens the desired app, save it to the home screen with a custom icon.

 

[Wildkraut]

If Apple tries that they will face immediate Enforcment actions by the EU for violating their rules on allowing sideloading on their devices since Apple cannot apply any rules on apps not installed thru the Apple App store.

Yep, exactly, and would I love to see that happen. 🔥🍎🤣

 

[BaldiMac]

Apple cannot dictate what software developers can do when not installing officially thru the Apple App store and have no legal agreements to force them to comply with any regulations Apple might want.

You're just repeating your claim. I asked for a source. Platforms owners have always been able to license access to their software platforms. I don't see anything in the DMA that changes that.

 

[Stunning_Sense4712]

You're just repeating your claim. I asked for a source. Platforms owners have always been able to license access to their software platforms. I don't see anything in the DMA that changes that.

I am stating facts. If Apple does not have a binding legal agreement with the software developer Apple can go pound sand. The reason the EU wants sideloading is to take Apple out of the gatekeeping business not allow them to continue said practice in sideloading which would defeat the purpose for it existing.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

I don't see why this would require a jailbroken device... it's just a bunch of shortcuts with custom icons and a custom wallpaper.

Use the shortcuts app to create a shortcut that opens the desired app, save it to the home screen with a custom icon.

There's custom sounds and animations to replicate Persona 5's unique stylish UI.

 

[DanTheMan827]

Not to mention you can most likely install a VM and run Windows or a Linux distro on an iPad with sideloading as well to.

That hinges on Apple exposing the virtualization functionality of the M1/M2 chip to apps though, although they won't really have much reason not to if their previous motivation was to keep people from sideloading apps via VM.

 

[DanTheMan827]

Source? I didn't see anything on the linked DMA website that implied Apple couldn't have platform rules. It would be downright dangerous for the EU to require that iOS run unsigned apps.

Article 6, Section 4
The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable the installation and effective use of third-party software applications or software application stores using, or interoperating with, its operating system and allow those software applications or software application stores to be accessed by means other than the relevant core platform services of that gatekeeper. The gatekeeper shall, where applicable, not prevent the downloaded third-party software applications or software application stores from prompting end users to decide whether they want to set that downloaded software application or software application store as their default. The gatekeeper shall technically enable end users who decide to set that downloaded software application or software application store as their default to carry out that change easily.

Article 6, Section 7
The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper. Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services.

Basically, Apple has to allow developers free access to iOS development tools, and they can't require that the resulting app be distributed via the App Store.

It does not however mean they can't require the use of code signing though, but they can't use it as a means to restrict the apps.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

It would be downright dangerous for the EU to require that iOS run unsigned apps.

Not really. Mac can run unsigned apps just fine and that platform is still highly secure. You'll live

 

[Wildkraut]

You're just repeating your claim. I asked for a source. Platforms owners have always been able to license access to their software platforms. I don't see anything in the DMA that changes that.

Hey Apple, if you read this, please follow his advices, and don’t listen to your lawyers.
Would love to see you(Apple) face planting.

 

[BaldiMac]

I am stating facts. If Apple does not have a binding legal agreement with the software developer Apple can go pound sand. The reason the EU wants sideloading is to take Apple out of the gatekeeping business not allow them to continue said practice in sideloading which would defeat the purpose for it existing.

If you believe you are right, simply provide a source. Per forum rules.

 

[Paddle1]

I feel Apple has brought some of this on themselves. They had a chance to get ahead of this and implement things their way while still encouraging competition and chose not to. Now governments are going full throttle, and it may be too late now.

 

[Tagbert]

This is a horrible example since the average user can’t sideload anything at the moment.

They can on Android and I expect the example refers to those users

 

[Wildkraut]

Why wouldn't it?

• A loopback VPN connection can be used to block outgoing communications, but this I don't believe is allowed on the App Store
• Sideloading will mean apps like development environments will be able to run
• Terminals already exist for iOS...
• Explicitly allowed are alternative app stores
• The only reason alternative browser engines can't run is because Apple says they can't in order to retain control of web apps and to limit them, there is no technical reason.

The only thing preventing these things from being possible is Apple gatekeeping the App Store.

Terminals exist, but they are very castrated.

 

[BaldiMac]

Not really. Mac can run unsigned apps just fine and that platform is still highly secure. You'll live

This may be shocking, but a smartphone has different uses than a computer. For example, a rogue app could mess with navigation, emergency phone calls, health data, tracking (stalking), etc.

 

[Wildkraut]

This may be shocking, but a smartphone has different uses than a computer. For example, a rogue app could mess with navigation, emergency phone calls, health data, tracking (stalking), etc.

Which is all synced or also accessible from the Mac. Same - same!

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

This may be shocking, but a smartphone has different uses than a computer. For example, a rogue app could mess with navigation, emergency phone calls, health data, tracking (stalking), etc.

A rogue app could mess with my file systems on my Mac, infiltrate my home network infecting other systems, get access to my tax and work information, access several of my accounts, etc.

The form factor is different, but the usages and risks are not. Computers are computers, whether as a desktop, a Macbook, or a phone. So aside from the background security, it's also on you to look into what you're installing. That has never changed on traditional computers, and it still means the same even on a phone.

Phones made you lazy in cybersecurity.