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New EU Law Could Force Apple to Allow Other App Stores, Sideloading, and iMessage Interoperability

Skyscraperfan said:
Their is no need for new app stores. Just the option to install apps from anywhere. Like the .apk files on Android. They would not be dangerous, because they could still only do what iOS allows them. If they can hijack iOS, then there is a problem with iOS that Apple needs to fix.
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Ok you install Snapchat Hack Plus you give it access to your contacts/photos that go straight to the darkweb. Let's not even look at a bad actor scenario lets look at Facebook downloading your whole camera roll without your knowledge. If they get caught oh oops it was a feature we were testing that accidentally got released. No rules have been broken but you just impacted everyone in your address book/camera roll regardless of if they sideload themselves. I would love the sue to heck out of someone for doing this in future.

How about that Facebook VPN app that recorded everything your device did and also installed a root ssl certificate to decode/record all traffic coming in and out of your device? Once again following the rules if you allow it.

Nothing in iOS could ever prevent this scenario if Apps are on alt stores. Get it now?

iOS is a safe space for those not technically savvy. I don't need to worry about a billion iOS users installing that app that's gonna affect me by proxy.

When laws catch up and you can hold individuals accountable for mistakes maybe I'll be ok with it. Right now most laws including the amazing GDPR would hold the creator of the malicious app accountable. Oh darn they are in another country nothing we can do. Nope new rules we have records from Altstore XYZ that you downloaded this compromised app and leaked this persons phone number they have to be notified and can take legal action against you.

Now if people were held accountable for their actions do you think the Altstores would exist?
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre said:
A rogue app could mess with my file systems on my Mac, infiltrate my home network infecting other systems, get access to my tax and work information, access several of my accounts, etc.

The form factor is different, but the usages and risks are not. Computers are computers, whether as a desktop, a Macbook, or a phone. So aside from the background security, it's also on you to look into what you're installing. That has never changed on traditional computers, and it still means the same even on a phone.

Phones made you lazy in cybersecurity.
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Seems like that emphasizes my point.
 
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BaldiMac said:
I think the negatives have been mentioned a bunch. Having to search more than one place. Piracy. Privacy. Malware. Trust. Stability.

As far as innovations in "being an app store", we already have 80% of the global market as a playground to try out new things in that area. To date, nobody cares.
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Those are issues that people could have with other app stores on the platform, yes. But unless Apple changes something significant about the App Store, avoiding those negative effects would continue to be one of their best marketing tools. That's the reason I keep saying I suspect most devs and customers would be slow to move away from the App Store.

And you did sorta hit the nail on the head there; to date, nobody cares. Consumers, generally speaking, don't know side-loading and third-party stores on Android are a thing. But whatever happens with Apple is instantly international news, and will put the idea of third-party app stores in the brain-space of average consumers and creative developers alike in a much more prominent way. Does that mean something awesome will result? Obviously not. But the possibility is there, and I'm interested to see how this develops while I continue to get my apps through Apple's App Store.
 
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Stromos said:
Ok you install Snapchat Hack Plus you give it access to your contacts/photos that go straight to the darkweb. Let's not even look at a bad actor scenario lets look at Facebook downloading your whole camera roll without your knowledge. If they get caught oh oops it was a feature we were testing that accidentally got released. No rules have been broken but you just impacted everyone in your address book/camera roll regardless of if they sideload themselves. I would love the sue to heck out of someone for doing this in future.

How about that Facebook VPN app that recorded everything your device did and also installed a root ssl certificate to decode/record all traffic coming in and out of your device? Once again following the rules if you allow it.

Nothing in iOS could ever prevent this scenario if Apps are on alt stores. Get it now?

iOS is a safe space for those not technically savvy. I don't need to worry about a billion iOS users installing that app that's gonna affect me by proxy.

When laws catch up and you can hold individuals accountable for mistakes maybe I'll be ok with it. Right now most laws including the amazing GDPR would hold the creator of the malicious app accountable. Oh darn they are in another country nothing we can do. Nope new rules we have records from Altstore XYZ that you downloaded this compromised app and leaked this persons phone number they have to be notified and can take legal action against you.

Now if people were held accountable for their actions do you think the Altstores would exist?
Click to expand...
I wonder how people survive on macOS.
 
Stromos said:
Ok you install Snapchat Hack Plus you give it access to your contacts/photos that go straight to the darkweb. Let's not even look at a bad actor scenario lets look at Facebook downloading your whole camera roll without your knowledge. If they get caught oh oops it was a feature we were testing that accidentally got released. No rules have been broken but you just impacted everyone in your address book/camera roll regardless of if they sideload themselves. I would love the sue to heck out of someone for doing this in future.

How about that Facebook VPN app that recorded everything your device did and also installed a root ssl certificate to decode/record all traffic coming in and out of your device? Once again following the rules if you allow it.

Nothing in iOS could ever prevent this scenario if Apps are on alt stores. Get it now?

iOS is a safe space for those not technically savvy. I don't need to worry about a billion iOS users installing that app that's gonna affect me by proxy.

When laws catch up and you can hold individuals accountable for mistakes maybe I'll be ok with it. Right now most laws including the amazing GDPR would hold the creator of the malicious app accountable. Oh darn they are in another country nothing we can do. Nope new rules we have records from Altstore XYZ that you downloaded this compromised app and leaked this persons phone number they have to be notified and can take legal action against you.

Now if people were held accountable for their actions do you think the Altstores would exist?
Click to expand...
Apps would still be required to ask the user if they want to provide access as far as I'm aware.

In the VPN example, Facebook didn't even need the app to do that, they could have just used configuration profiles to do the same thing... a VPN connection and a root certificate.

But assuming apps use certificate pinning, a VPN + root certificate doesn't automatically mean that your data is insecure, just that your web browser traffic might be.

People don't realize how much a configuration profile could actually do
 
Wildkraut said:
Thanks EU!
Told ya it’s coming…
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Don‘t hold your breath.

If Apple’s recent conduct (such as in South Korea or the Netherlands) is any indication, they will drag this out as long as possible, trying to undermine and circumvent this law in every which way imaginable.

I can well imagine this may take years to get the ball rolling.
 
AppliedMicro said:
Don‘t hold your breath.

If Apple’s recent conduct (such as in South Korea or the Netherlands) is any indication, they will drag this out as long as possible, trying to undermine and circumvent this law in every which way imaginable.

I can well imagine this may take years to get the ball rolling.
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All in the meanwhile, Apple will be incurring huge fines and potentially risk being barred from selling their products and services in the EU for violating their laws.
 
AppliedMicro said:
Don‘t hold your breath.

If Apple’s recent conduct (such as in South Korea or the Netherlands) is any indication, they will drag this out as long as possible, trying to undermine and circumvent this law in every which way imaginable.

I can well imagine this may take years to get the ball rolling.
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No prob, time flies! Feels like it was yesterday when the EPiC trial started.
Max 2024 is game over, then the fine begins.
 
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strongy said:
if you think that you will get any sort of discount you are forgetting that the companies will still be forced to pay other people that 30% and more for the services that were covered by apple
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No idea what you mean. Perhaps use an example?
 
AppliedMicro said:
Don‘t hold your breath.

If Apple’s recent conduct (such as in South Korea or the Netherlands) is any indication, they will drag this out as long as possible, trying to undermine and circumvent this law in every which way imaginable.

I can well imagine this may take years to get the ball rolling.
Click to expand...

Well the article said before March 2024, so I doubt it would be long. iOS 17 will most likely have support for sideloading and then turned on in March.

We can already see signs of this with the new Apple Security Research site https://security.apple.com/

A new bulletin of security alerts, but more than that the introduction of the Security Research Device (SRD,) an iPhone that is fully open all the way to the kernel to find any possible vulnerabilities. They're most likely going to try to close as many holes as possible before they're forced to open up

phone.png
 
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GMShadow said:
A functioning US President would have made it clear to the EU that such a move would be met with harsh economic retaliation.
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A functioning US president has a lot more important things on his/her plate to worry about, like the economy, like threats to democracy, like an unstable person waging war on a sovereign nation, threatening the use of nuclear weapons. I’m not even sure this would fit on the dessert plate.
 
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I remember not so long ago (roughly around the time Epic started its crusade against Apple's monopoly) that there were many of us here who said that was just the beginning. That eventually Apple would be forced to allow alternative app stores & payment processing methods.

We were belittled, ridiculed & shouted down.

My how the worm has turned.....
 
citysnaps said:
As long as the someone who sideloads first agrees that any harm suffered by the user or to the phone, is the responsibility of the user. With no Apple responsibility or liability.

In other words, sideloading is at your own risk.
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What if my bank bails off the AppStore and forces me to side load their app?
 
dampfnudel said:
A functioning US president has a lot more important things on his/her plate to worry about, like the economy, like threats to democracy, like an unstable person waging war on a sovereign nation, threatening the use of nuclear weapons. I’m not even sure this would fit on the dessert plate.
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You can't simultaneously say that the country has to win the technological race against geopolitical enemies and then do nothing when backward individuals create laws designed to cripple that.
 
MORE COMPETITION drives innovation
MORE CHOICE for consumers
MORE FREEDOM AND CONTROL for end users


For greedy Apple Shareholders here who don’t understand what this means -

giving users the ability to purchase, download and install from elsewhere….even Pro Apps is akin to using MacOS.

It is people’s choice if they want to risk their security and privacy not being locked in a wall gardened digital prison gatekeeper by Apple.


so what if it hits your stock value because Apple will no longer have an anti-consumer and anti-competitive App Store monopoly.

ALWAYS side with consumers and Apple workers over Apple corporation its greedy good for nothing wealthy shareholders.
 
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Apple's going to have to figure out a new way to make money. That's not snark, just a fact. They give away the development tools, give away software upgrades, and monetize all that work via the apps themselves. Expect XCode to have a price tag if this passes.

There are legitimate security issues with other app stores, and I really wonder if the EU realizes that the first thing facebook and other data-privacy invading companies do will be to leave the apple app store and their restrictions and launch their own 'ad and data selling friendly' store. Apple loses the ability to be the privacy gatekeeper. Left hand meet right hand.

On iMessage, sorry. There are plenty of competing systems, and forcing apple to open theirs up (aka stealing their IP) is bogus. If google had picked a strategy and stayed with it, they'd have a similar app. Just because they blew it, doesn't mean apple should have to give them a second chance.
 
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Admiralbison said:
MORE COMPETITION drives innovation
MORE CHOICE for consumers
MORE FREEDOM AND CONTROL for end users


For greedy Apple Shareholders here who don’t understand what this means -

giving users the ability to purchase, download and install from elsewhere….even Pro Apps is akin to using MacOS.

It is people’s choice if they want to risk their security and privacy not being locked in a wall gardened digital prison gatekeeper by Apple.


so what if it hits your stock value because Apple will no longer have an anti-consumer and anti-competitive App Store monopoly.

ALWAYS side with consumers and Apple workers over Apple corporation its greedy good for nothing wealthy shareholders.
Click to expand...
Competition: Google/Android
Choice: Google/Android
Freedom and Control: Google/Android

If you don't like apples practices, there's an alternative. No one has a 'right' to use a companies products. We all know exactly what we're getting when we buy an Apple device or service. Don't like it? Shop elsewhere.

That's the free market.
 
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