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I ask because that's basically what happened with dutch dating apps earlier this year.


Apple has made it clear that they see 27% as a platform fee, and not some arbitrary commission they are collecting from sales.

It's also not impossible that iOS penalises apps from third party app stores, citing security concerns. For example, apps purchased this way might not be able to access iCloud, or users may have to contend with periodic pop-ups (something like that clipboard saga with iOS 16).

I won't be surprised if seemingly isolated legal precedents suddenly all come together and allow Apple to effectively kneecap third party app stores before they even have a chance to take off.

Yeah, but that’s based on an individual case not on DMA.
If i remember correctly not the final decision too, it‘s all still ongoing, just like the EPIC case.
Let us not forget the few bills in USA that are still rolling, with more or less the same intentions as DMA.

The DMA also clearly says that gatekeepers must allow API and Services access to third-parties.
 
Side loading will not make apps better or make the phone more secure. It will do the opposite. Big companies that currently have to abide by a quality standard will no longer be required to meet those standards. Groups of apps can choose to disregard Apple’s guidelines and collect as much information as they’d like because they don’t have to abide to Apple’s App store rules. Your data that was secure on your phone and your friends iPhones will now be open to anyone in your friends and family that chooses to side load a crappy app and give them access to your data on their phone (photos, addresses, phone numbers, email history, etc).

More companies will be subject to pirating of their intellectual property because anyone can pirate their IPs and side load them on their iOS devices.

This will happen if allowed. It already happens on Android. Sure there will be competition but also that competition can simply circumvent any safeguards that were in place. This is just like the government saying that people can just come into your home from any opening they want and sit on your couch. Doesn’t matter if they didn‘t bathe, or eat food on your couch, or go through your mail, government said it was okay and so now they can do whatever you want. But don’t worry you can just not sideload yourself because that protects you right.

What should be done is that better regulation and openness to API’s, while maintaining security and stability of your device.
How long before Apple starts selling Xcode and key access in the EU?
 
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Apple bought this on themselves through pure greed and a sense of entitlement.

Before I start to criticise Apple, I am here on these forums as hugely admire Apple's hardware and OS level software.

I'll always celebrate Apple when it brings out amazing products such as the new Macs, the new iPhones etc. etc.

But I think it's fair to criticise them when they deserve it.

I feel that its Services is a massive source of rot, which is damaging Apple as company.

So the EU are right to act as they are in this case (when they will almost certainly name Apple as a gatekeeper).

Services is obviously a high margin business that is growing as iPhone revenue is starting to slow, which is why Tim Cook is letting it happen.

Of course, it's business school basics that if you can get extra revenue from your existing customers and still keep them, you should.

And in fact the duty of the CEO - who in reality, works for the shareholders - to maximise revenue.

But the CEO can also make the argument to the shareholders, that gaining every extra $ can sometimes be the long term detriment of the company.

Tim Cook seems to be unwilling to make this argument, which I simply don't like, as I believe that he is profoundly wrong not to.

***

The App Store at the start, was fantastic and allowed devs to reach a huge audience and not have to set up billing and distribution systems. Consumers got a (mostly!) safe curated store.

Nowadays the App Store seems more about Apple jealously guarding its revenue from it and using it as a platform to claw additional incremental revenue - App Store ads, even more App Store ads and clamping down on anyone trying to sell anything without giving Apple their cut - NFTs and so on.

I haven't got an MBA, but I'm aware that as products and markets reach maturity, different rules & norms come into play and that fair competition has to be ensured and companies generally don't enjoy as high margins as before.

It also encourages companies to create new products and not just sit on their 'gold mine', which is all for the good.

This is exactly what the EU is aiming to ensure.

Apple is behaving although this simply doesn't apply to them and that they don't have to budge an inch.

***

And as for security: as many have pointed out, the Mac uses notarisation.

And there has still been security issues on the App Store.

Just the other month, there was an issue with apps being able to store Facebook login credentials. Why didn't Apple catch that? There's numerous other examples too, just search for them.

The reason is, is because the App Store isn't really about curation and user safety as a priority anymore. It's about - yes you've guessed it - revenue. For Apple.

As for sideloading other App Stores. Well, you won't have to. And if a store gets a bad reputation, just like real life stores no-one will use them.

Having said that, I will concede a point in Apple's defence though & agree with some other posters here - there will be a lot of scams from 3rd party app stores.

But I can't help thinking that we wouldn't have got to this point if Apple had compromised.

But it refused to, as revenue was more important to it than the longer term health of the product. And now there's going to consequences for us all, including Apple (at least in the EU!).

***

P.S. I'm in the UK so this may or not apply to me (depending on which government is in place and if Apple decide to only apply these rules in the EU only), nor am I a dev etc. so I have no skin in the game, so to speak.
UK is also working on a bill similar to DMA.
 
Isn't its a lot easier for EU to deal with fewer companies? If this was totally the other way, they would be forever complaining then pointing the finger at their favorite two targets.
I agree. I would not be surprised to find that the EU, as an end goal, would like very much to make doing business for Apple so onerous that they are left with ONLY having to deal with Google and their Android platform. It’s not so much about choice (as their actions won’t increase choice in any real way), it’s about ease of control.
 
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American companies, cough - cough, yep e.g. ARM is totally American. 🙄
Yeah, but, like… what has the EU done with the technology they birthed? If a lot of the technology came from EU countries, it stands to reason that they should have a commanding lead in every sector of technology where they, at one point, held the keys. Did they sell off the technology off or did the principals found their companies outside the EU where the regulations allowed them an easier path to being able to pay off their startup loans and reach profitability faster?
 
I agree. I would not be surprised to find that the EU, as an end goal, would like very much to make doing business for Apple so onerous that they are left with ONLY having to deal with Google and their Android platform. It’s not so much about choice (as their actions won’t increase choice in any real way), it’s about ease of control.
When a company vanishes, new ones are founded to replace it, a normal process in our economy.
Or do you expect Apple to exist in 500-1000 years from now? I don’t!
Just like Nokia, Palm, Blackberry and uncountable other companies vanished and got replaced.

Who cares?!
 
American companies, cough - cough, yep e.g. ARM is totally American. 🙄

Just like the German Intel Department a.k.a. Infineon/Siemens, bought by Apple, who is now developing Apples Modem to compete with Qualcomm. And the Sony lenses Apples uses are also American, just like the Samsung displays Apple uses, and the Hynix RAM modules. 🙄

Dreams are your reality?!

But I must agree, Americans aren’t stupid like Europeans, Americans don’t give everything easily out of their hands, this stupidity is probably too deep in European genes, sharing is caring.

Acorn spun off the chip business into ARM with Apple's money and VLSI's tooling. Both of those companies are American. Perhaps next time you want to make a 'clever point', you could try to actually know what you're talking about.


But I must agree, Americans aren’t stupid like Europeans, Americans don’t give everything easily out of their hands, this stupidity is probably too deep in European genes, sharing is caring.

According to the Almanac of American Philanthropy, Americans donate around seven times as much as continental Europeans to charitable causes per capita. Per person, even after adjusting for differences in household income, Americans donate twice as much of their income as the Dutch, three times as much as the French, five times as much as Germans, and ten times that of Italians.
 
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In Europe we always scratch our heads if we learn about the huge fines companies have to pay for something that would not even be a problem in Europe. One restaurant chain had to pay millions to a customer because the coffee was too hot. That goes so far that some companies think twice before expanding their business to the US. They could make a lot of money there, but a single court case could ruin them. In the US parent companies can be held responsible for what their daughter companies do. Volkswagen hat to pay $30 billion for some cheating during emission tests, although European cars still are much cleaner than American cars.

The problem in Europe is that the fines here are simply too low to impress big companies. If Microsoft or Google have to pay $1 billion for some anti-competitive behaviour, they do not care very much, because that behaviour has brought them multiple times more money than they have to pay in fees. I think the EU has to step up a lot.

Google is the worst offender of all. Google decided to scan millions of books and made them searchable via Google Books without asking the authors first. That brought them into such a powerful position that today authors give their permission. Google did the same with news and other content. I hope that privacy laws will one day stop Google. The whole reason why Google developed Android was just to gather even more user data. Google used their market power to force smartphone producers to preinstall a lot of Google apps. If a smartphone company does not accept that, it will not get Android. All that expensive development of Android is paid by stolen user data. The EU should have stopped Google much earlier. Then we might have some competition among mobile operating systems today.
 
Bring it on. It's not like you're being forced to sideload.
It's funny, you have the proof right before your eyes, but you just refuse to acknowledge it. Look at the Android ecosystem, certain apps are only available on alternate stores. And the OS has around 50 times the malware.

Same goes for the completely open Windows ecosystem btw. We have the "case study" for how "great" completely open systems are, 30 decades of that, yet you still "assume" it'll be great.

OH BOY CAN'T WAIT!

No.
 
Acorn spun off the chip business into ARM with Apple's money and VLSI's tooling. Both of those companies are American. Perhaps next time you want to make a 'clever point', you could try to actually know what you're talking about.
LOL Acorn was British, ARM is British, go read again, VLSI was more or less what Foxcon/TSMC is for Apple today.

That would be like claiming that Foxcon and TSMC invented the iPhone. Or that Apple = Microsoft just because Billy saved Apple from going to nirvana.

You’re funny!

 
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Oh God, Apple just can’t catch a break from all this. I feel like the EU is the reason we got to see the new not-so-good iPads and MacBook Pros are delayed till next year. No November Apple event!
You think that releasing half assed iPad updates and penny pinching by not even adjusting the Pencil 1 to fit the USB port going forward is the EU‘s fault?
 
I think the solution to this is simple. Give the EU what they want, everything … however, Apple devices are only guaranteed to work with Apple ecosystem, therefore, if an apple device detects that an alternative App Store, or App has been sideloaded, the warranty on the device ends. So when you break your phone or iPad, well, it’s not Apple’s fault, they warned you … They cannot be responsible for people’s ignorance …
 
I think the solution to this is simple. Give the EU what they want, everything … however, Apple devices are only guaranteed to work with Apple ecosystem, therefore, if an apple device detects that an alternative App Store, or App has been sideloaded, the warranty on the device ends. So when you break your phone or iPad, well, it’s not Apple’s fault, they warned you … They cannot be responsible for people’s ignorance …
You clearly don’t know the EU laws, specially when it comes to warranty.
 
It's funny, you have the proof right before your eyes, but you just refuse to acknowledge it. Look at the Android ecosystem, certain apps are only available on alternate stores. And the OS has around 50 times the malware.

Same goes for the completely open Windows ecosystem btw. We have the "case study" for how "great" completely open systems are, 30 decades of that, yet you still "assume" it'll be great.

OH BOY CAN'T WAIT!

No.
The Android of my mom with her nearly 80 years has no malware and is working fine, she browses the web and use social stuff daily. She must be doing something wrong, right?

Well, against stupidity there is no safety, just education!
 
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Until the key apps you wish to use choose to exit the app store, leaving you with a dilemma of eschewing those apps or opening your device up.

(edited for typo)
Key apps choosing to exit the app store will open the opportunity for competing apps to enter the app store and sell added security
 
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A functioning US President would have made it clear to the EU that such a move would be met with harsh economic retaliation.
In the current state of international affairs, what we really need is the USA and the EU declaring economic war on each other so that people can continue enjoying not being able to sideload on their phones.

Might not be a solid plan actually.
 
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