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New iMac's glossy screen to anger graphics pros?

shecky

shecky

Guest
May 24, 2003
2,580
5
Obviously you're not a golfer.
i think someone else on here will explain this better than i can, but ignoring the glare issue for a moment, as stu said above the problem for me as someone who does print design, is that glossy displays produce colors that are only reproducible on other glossy displays. if the color gamut of a glossy display is:

...|--------------------------------|...

the gamut that can be printed is:

...........|----------------|...............

that makes working on such a display a huge issue. even the gamut on a matte display is still wider than what can be printed but the colors are represented in a way that more like how they print. having said all that i have learned to never fully rely on my calibrated monitors; i rely on a combination of pantone books, printer's Kodak proofs and the final press sheets to see what the color really looks like. a good calibrated monitor will only help you make a better guess.
 
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l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
shecky said:
i think someone else on here will explain this better than i can, but ignoring the glare issue for a moment, as stu said above the problem for me as someone who does print design, is that glossy displays produce colors that are only reproducible on other glossy displays. if the color gamut of a glossy display is:

...|--------------------------------|...

the gamut that can be printed is:

...........|----------------|...............

that makes working on such a display a huge issue. even the gamut on a matte display is still wider than what can be printed but the colors are represented in a way that more like how they print. having said all that i have learned to never fully rely on my calibrated monitors; i rely on a combination of pantone books, printer's Kodak proofs and the final press sheets to see what the color really looks like. a good calibrated monitor will only help you make a better guess.
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Well you've just described the 'issue' of an RGB working space to CMYK print space - so I hardly see this is a problem of monitor calibration of a glossy display...

If you use proofing on the display (when using photoshop, Command/CTRL +Y from memory) you will have an idea of the output on screen.
 
shecky

shecky

Guest
May 24, 2003
2,580
5
Obviously you're not a golfer.
the calibration is irrelevant, im talking about the perceived glossy gamut vs a perceived matte gamut. to my eyes the glossy seems even more out there than the matte even tho both work in an RGB colorspace.
 
S

Stu Allen

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2007
19
0
l33r0y said:
Well you've just described the 'issue' of an RGB working space to CMYK print space - so I hardly see this is a problem of monitor calibration of a glossy display...

If you use proofing on the display (when using photoshop, Command/CTRL +Y from memory) you will have an idea of the output on screen.
Click to expand...

Lets make this quite clear, I am talking about all printing, which includes onto Photographic paper using either Adobe RGB or sRGB and inkjet printing. So it is a problem of the gloss screen. This is what the calibration guy told me.
 
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tiggle

macrumors member
Jan 31, 2006
89
0
Hong Kong
What is the difference between the 'glossy' of CRT monitors and the 'glossy' of the new 'glossies' (LCD)? I recall reading that CRTs were preferred because they offered more accurate colours. Are they not 'glossy'?

If they are the same as far as 'glossy' is concerned, then was there such major problems with CRTs before LCDs came along?

Forgive my total ignorance on the subject :)
 
S

Stu Allen

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2007
19
0
tiggle said:
What is the difference between the 'glossy' of CRT monitors and the 'glossy' of the new 'glossies' (LCD)? I recall reading that CRTs were preferred because they offered more accurate colours. Are they not 'glossy'?

If they are the same as far as 'glossy' is concerned, then was there such major problems with CRTs before LCDs came along?

Forgive my total ignorance on the subject :)
Click to expand...

The old CRTs did not change things like the LCD gloss screens do.
 
O

observer

macrumors member
Jan 26, 2007
82
0
screen vs print

Stu Allen said:
I have out of interest just phoned up the shop I use to buy my calibration equipment now he explained things in a way which makes things clearer than the words I have used.

Although the screen will calibrate ok the trouble is gloss screens show a level of black the you just can't get when you print. ie it's much darker. So your sat looking at your screen seeing these different levels of black and adjusting your photo accordingly. The end result on scrren could be that you can see right into the shadow detail. You then go to print it and all that lovely shadow detail has turned to one level of black and the paper it is being printed on has nowhere near the range. The papers range is nearer that of a matt screen not gloss. Same problem if you adjust the photo on a gloss screen and then you upload it onto a website and people start viewing it on matt screen. You must remember this problem will not just be on black it will be on all colours.
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It sure sounds like the problem with the glossy screens is that they're **too good**. Gosh, life is tough.

Surely any professional has to consider where the work is going to be printed -- newspapers have poor resolution, magazines much better, art books quite good. A heavily frosted crummy screen might be the best way to preview for newspapers. Since I'm not a professional, I don't have to worry about it. I'd really like to see as much as possible, and I'll get the best screen available. Which is glossy, it sounds like.
 
S

Stu Allen

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2007
19
0
observer said:
It sure sounds like the problem with the glossy screens is that they're **too good**. Gosh, life is tough.

Surely any professional has to consider where the work is going to be printed -- newspapers have poor resolution, magazines much better, art books quite good. A heavily frosted crummy screen might be the best way to preview for newspapers. Since I'm not a professional, I don't have to worry about it. I'd really like to see as much as possible, and I'll get the best screen available. Which is glossy, it sounds like.
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Well that is fine unless you intend to print using your home injet printer or say place a print order via iPhoto or Kodak's prints service or another online service or maybe a Walmart, Asda or Tesco's instore print service. The danger is your get the prints back which will lok really bad and blame the store. They will turn around and say 'well sir it's your adjusted file's that look bad'. So you see you don't have to be a pro to be effected by this. Just being fussy about the quality of your photos will be enough and that is a lot of keen amateur photographers.
 
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GWN

macrumors newbie
Jul 13, 2007
10
0
Stu Allen said:
Well that is fine unless you intend to print using your home injet printer or say place a print order via iPhoto or Kodak's prints service or another online service or maybe a Walmart, Asda or Tesco's instore print service. The danger is your get the prints back which will lok really bad and blame the store. They will turn around and say 'well sir it's your adjusted file's that look bad'. So you see you don't have to be a pro to be effected by this. Just being fussy about the quality of your photos will be enough and that is a lot of keen amateur photographers.
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If you are fussy about prints you won't go to Walmart in the first place... They do all sorts of color corrections, sharpening that you have no control over. And again Stu, this is all speculation... I'm still waiting for real evidence that the glossy screen will be an issue that can't be worked around easily.

Having more colors/blacks displayed on the monitor than what can be printed is after all not a new issue is it?
 
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urbanskywalker

macrumors 6502
Apr 30, 2007
255
0
No two screens reproduce colours exactly same. I do video editing and make projects that show on $50 TV.s and the latest HD TV.s Pro's use colour bars to standardize images but unless your broadcasting who cares. Print is the same way. Most labs will make changes to your images that are far more significant than monitor differences. There is no perfection.
 
johnmcboston

johnmcboston

macrumors 6502
Sep 16, 2005
407
14
Boston
The Man said:
While that's true, they also usually had a mat (anti-glare) coating on the glass. I don't believe that there's a anti-glare coating on the new iMac, because it's all about extra glossy, these days.
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We went out of our way to get glare free VT terminals. I even remember some people had those anti-glare filters they would put in front of their screens...
 
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Stu Allen

macrumors newbie
Aug 7, 2007
19
0
urbanskywalker said:
No two screens reproduce colours exactly same. I do video editing and make projects that show on $50 TV.s and the latest HD TV.s Pro's use colour bars to standardize images but unless your broadcasting who cares. Print is the same way. Most labs will make changes to your images that are far more significant than monitor differences. There is no perfection.
Click to expand...

Labs do NOT make changes to digital files unless you tell them to. I know this for fact. If their machine has not recently been recalibrated or their chemicals are getting a bit old then things will look different but this just means you are using a useless lab. Pro labs will give you an option for them to make changes to your files but you pay extra for this. The pro lab I use offer both options.
 
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gonnabuyamac

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2006
412
0
netdog said:
If people "love glossy" so much, I wonder why Steve hasn't changed the ACDs to glossy. ;)
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They haven't done ANYTHING to ACDs for quite a while. I'd like to get one, but I'm waiting for an update.

I'm going to be the oddball here and say that I actually prefer glossy somewhat. I'm a graphic & web designer, but I usually keep my office pretty dim, so reflections are hardly ever an issue... I don't see them much, and even when they are there I'm used to it.

Especially for web - since the majority of computers are now being sold with glossy screens (take a walk through best buy), I like knowing somewhat what my pages are going to look like on the average persons computer. I use a glossy MBP paired with a higher-end sony monitor - which, like I said I want to replace with a new ACD someday.
 
atari1356

atari1356

macrumors 68000
Feb 27, 2004
1,582
32
johnmcboston said:
We went out of our way to get glare free VT terminals. I even remember some people had those anti-glare filters they would put in front of their screens...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember selling a ton of these years ago when I worked for Office Depot:

10007346.jpg


I'm sure we'll see anti-glare filters soon for the new iMacs.... ugh
 
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