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New Mac Mini is out. Is (almost) everyone happy now?
- Thread starter Marhowl
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Wow, point missed. The problem w/ this logic is that we're not just talking about one tool. For many folks, myself included, the macOS is one tool that fits our needs. But unfortunately, Apple is the only (official) game in town for that, and they can't or won't provide the hardware tools many of us need. Of course, you are technically right— if they don't provide what you need, look elsewhere. But three points about that: a) that's a bit simplistic, isn't it?; b) if they listened, they certainly COULD provide what we need; and c) if we on a discussion forum simply turned and walked away because it wasn't what we needed, rather than discussing it, then it wouldn't be much of a discussion forum.
EDIT: 3rd point...
I think you meant to say:
Because it can be for those who wish it in the way it offers it or have no other alternative (since Apple doesn't provide one).
I'm right there with you. But Apple doesn't offer an alternative. Take the following discussion in the Mac Pro forum:
Server Duty: cMP vs. Mac mini 2018
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/server-duty-cmp-vs-mac-mini-2018.2152124/
The available Apple options are using a 10 year old Mac Pro or a new Mini. Neither is ideal.
I don't believe you do get what I'm saying. I'm not faulting the Mini. I think it's a great computer (I own two myself). I'm not faulting its size nor its expansion capability. Nor am I faulting those who choose to buy it and expand it through the means it offers. What I guess I'm faulting is how Apple makes such a nice, small form factor computer, emphasizes its compact design and significant external expansion capability which then negates the compact design.
And that's fine, no one says you can't.
But that doesn't make this true still:
Just because you don't see the value of separating some components away, doesn't "negate the small form factor". It's about preferences.
Meanwhile, you're on a message forum... where people discuss things like this. "Whining" to you is someone else just expressing their opinion. Maybe you should just move on and find other topics that "fit your needs".
I think he's observing the contradiction that Apple seems to make by gleefully designing something small, thin, light, etc. then coupling that w/ a lot of extra stuff that isn't. They take these design themes to the unnecessary extreme in many cases.
Take the 2012–current iMac form factor, for example. Did anyone say, "Yano, I think I'd like to use my iMac as a butter knife"? Unlikely, but there they are...those razor-sharp edges that unnecessarily hastened dropping the internal SuperDrive (and therefore increasing the cost by $80 for those that still needed it) and any convenient side access like the SD card slot. But...but...thank GOD we have super-skinny side edges on the iMac...that aren't visible when using it.
I just skimmed through that thread and it doesn't really make the point you think it does. The 2018 Mac Mini is not 'ideal' for that task because it's complete overkill. It's a file server for a small office, even a 2014 Mac Mini would be plenty fast enough.
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The alternative that keeps being proposed is a "mid-sized tower". Great, so those who want no extra devices, are SOL. Those who want extra devices that don't fit inside, are SOL.
What internal expansion should it have, that everyone will be happy and require no external devices?
Nope, not with only 2 cores. Additionally, no 10GbE on 2014 mini. Soldered RAM. In fact, the quad-core 2012 Mac mini is a better choice than the 2014— I use it for a backup server at a couple of sites. But for the use case in the thread ("my" thread), file sharing and backup serving are the primary needs, but also other services, including NetBooting. No way would I go with a dual-core setup for that.
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I think problem and the point was first this:
It's not so much that the Mac mini should be larger and offer more internal expansion— just that there's nothing else from Apple that does. And my observation about the thin & light design extremes is more about how Apple seems tunnel-visioned on that goal, w/o pausing to look around and see what people might want, or consider if what they're doing makes sense.
Ok, I missed the followup line where you covered that.
I still don't really see how the new Mac mini "isn't suitable", and - while I respect that we all have our preferences - I think you're letting your preference for big Mac Pros cloud the matter about "what's practical". What's described is perfect duty for a Mac mini and an external drive array or two. As I said, that thread doesn't make the point 'neither is ideal'. It makes the point 'some people are attached to the idea of a big mac pro'.
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Ok, so that is a point that is clear, and currently I agree - it's not even an opinion, it's just fact. They don't offer a computer with internal expansion options.
Who knows what the Mac Pro will bring. I'm not betting the house on internal expansion.
Ironically they used to provide what we need but for some reason they refuse to do so. The only reason that makes sense is they'd rather focus on form instead of function.Wow, point missed. The problem w/ this logic is that we're not just talking about one tool. For many folks, myself included, the macOS is one tool that fits our needs. But unfortunately, Apple is the only (official) game in town for that, and they can't or won't provide the hardware tools many of us need. Of course, you are technically right— if they don't provide what you need, look elsewhere. But three points about that: a) that's a bit simplistic, isn't it?; b) if they listened, they certainly COULD provide what we need; and c) if we on a discussion forum simply turned and walked away because it wasn't what we needed, rather than discussing it, then it wouldn't be much of a discussion forum.
EDIT: 3rd point...
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Apple does.
I also see value in keeping everything in one chassis instead of spewing it across my entire work area.
As previously mentioned I have a 6,1 Mac Pro with external storage attached to it. That external storage negates any benefit the compact size of the 6,1 Mac Pro offered. I may as well have a 5,1 Mac Pro instead. At least I can set the Mac Pro on the floor besides my desk. Something I am reluctant to do with the 6,1 Mac Pro and its external storage.
Ok, I think this debate has been MORE than beaten to death by now... obviously some dislike external expansion with the mac mini design, and some have chosen to embrace it.
Lets move on to something different, because I think the last 5 pages have already covered this topic.
Lets move on to something different, because I think the last 5 pages have already covered this topic.
Then you need to go back and re-read the thread. It's not that the Mini is overkill that's the problem. The problem is the design constraints that went into the new Mini: No internal drive expansion and no user swappable hard disks (in the event of a failure) two name two. The Mac Pro is more than sufficient for the customers needs but the problem is its 10 years old.
Yes, a mid-sized tower would be ideal for many. Including those who would choose a Mini and eGPU solution. Why Apple refuses to cater to a market which has been clamoring for such a solution for years is beyond me.
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Or a mid-sized tower which would consume no more additional desktop (or beside the desktop) space.
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Where did anyone say they disliked the external expansion capabilities of the Mac Mini design?
If you are not interested in the discussion you're free to ignore it. However those of us who are are free to continue it.
Don't worry, I think you may just get your mid-sized tower.
It'll likely however be the Mac Pro, with a price to match.
God, I miss simple downvoting to express disagreement....
The simple fact is WE (*REAL* computer users) were here FIRST. All these smart phone using, iPad playing members of the mass Joe Public came later (I've had a desktop home computer of some kind since 1981!). While welcome to the party, that doesn't mean they get to take over the party and then trash the flipping house! REAL computer users have a right to "whine" and not be pleased with what Apple does. They have a right to protest it and complain. How else can Apple ever get the news that we don't LIKE that crap if no one makes their feelings known? Your great idea is to either just bend over or walk away from an entire OS and whatever large library of commercial software and go "somewhere else." Nevermind that a simple SSD connector instead of soldering and a little access door for ram would clear up MOST of the problems with this thing. No, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I am the great and powerful Oz!
Yeah, it's not quite as "simple" as you'd like us to believe because you don't actually think about what you're saying or to whom you're saying it. What you really mean is you are happy with it and you don't give a flying crap what anyone else thinks. And so you imagine that everyone just agrees with you and the 'few' on here that write scathing replies are the "fringe" elements of society. Well, I'd much rather be a flipping "fringe element" than another mass market consumer that spends all his time on Facebook and Twitter as most of the smart phone wielding public seems to do....
My god how far society has fallen....
Yes, dammit, that argument is distracting from my righteous indignation about the cost of storage.
I disagree. No need to unnecessarly fragment the line over ssd speeds. I have never heard anyone complain about ssd speeds. I hope you are trolling.
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Not there.
Was surprised as the only Mac I’ve had before the Mini was a 2015 MBP which has the chime.
No, more a case of hitting Enter before engaging brain, while trying to keep up with endless new threads and comments.
You are right. Given the soldered in storage, it is not smart to permanently limit the rest of the computer with a slow boot drive bottleneck.
If the boot drive was replaceable, it would be a very different story. But it isn't.
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For those who are waiting for the likes of OWC to release an updated MiniStack, I suggest you get in contact and ask them about it. They've responded (via Twitter)
The more requests (hopefully) the more likely we'll see (or hear about) an updated model. Ultimately this is a niche market, direct customer feedback/requests surely plays a role in their product planning.
The more requests (hopefully) the more likely we'll see (or hear about) an updated model. Ultimately this is a niche market, direct customer feedback/requests surely plays a role in their product planning.
WTF would you even THINK that was trolling? My god, is everything people disagree with now considered trolling? The guy had the starts of a good idea.
Better yet, just include a damn plug-in slot for the NVMe SSD card so it can be easily changed/upgraded. What would be so hard about THAT? They could probably fit a SATA connector in there too, particularly for a 2nd drive bay (my current Mini has two drive bays, so why not this one? Bad design choices there....
I can live with only one internal drive. There are probably good space and thermal engineering reasons for it, given the move to desktop class CPUs.
The problem is the combination of having it soldered and the Apple price.
I know the idea is shocking, but they could have made the darn thing just a tiny bit larger to solve most inherent issues (including room for a PCI graphics card even)...(heresy I know). It IS supposed to be a "desktop" after all.
The real question is whether this new Mac Pro coming out will have ANY internal expansion or if it will be some crazy Apple proprietary case stacker or something equally weird. Why Apple wants to reinvent the wheel just for looks instead of function is beyond me. I just want a functional reasonably upper end desktop without compromises that doesn't cost the price of small new car.
I don't have a problem with them doing that.
But server farms with hundreds or thousands of Minis might not be so happy as they will have to modify their existing mounting racks, which could be quite costly and disruptive.