New Mac Mini is out. Is (almost) everyone happy now?

[Cape Dave]

It's no more pro than it was in 2012 with the server edition. It cost around $1200 fully configured back then. Now it's over $4000. It sounds like "Pro" to you means "costly". And just look at the wonderful graphics card you get at that price too! Intel graphics!!! Woohooo!!!!! Geebus....

Configurable? WTF does that mean? No user replaceable parts???? Yeah, that's a FANTASTIC feature!



Wow. That's amazing logic. Compare a rip off back then to a rip off now. I take it you didn't look at REAL computers back when Mac were pieces of crap? Hell, the Apple II was a better computer. I owned Amiga computers in the late 80s and through the 1990s. Macs were garbage then, mostly due to insane hardware prices (those are clearly still around) and the totally junky classic Mac operating system that couldn't multitask and crashed constantly if you even tried it. I had no such issues with my Amiga 3000 I had from 1991 to 1999.



I'm shocked. A post I can agree with. I don't mind paying a bit more for Apple because I despise the Microsoft operating system (never liked Classic Macs, but OS X is much closer to an Amiga than either Classic Mac or Dos or Windows, seeing the Amiga was partly based on Unix as well). What bothers me is Apple PURPOSELY doing things to increase their profits at our expense like GLUING cases and using non-standard screws and bolt heads (to try and force you to use Apple repairs or buy Appel Care), soldering parts so you can't replace them with cheaper alternatives (and have to pay through the nose to buy them from Apple on Day 1 whether you want or can afford them or not).

By comparison, my 2008 Macbook Pro had user replaceable ram slots, a replaceable battery, a STANDARD expansion port and LOADS of standard connections and a reasonable GPU for a notebook. It didn't need a damn thing added to it at the time! No dongles. No external graphics card. No praying your battery wouldn't die on you because you couldn't change it out! $1600 on sale ($2000 normal). The hard drive was pretty easy to get to and replace as well. The only trouble I ever had was a fan went bad (making loads of noise with bad bearing) and I replaced that myself as well.

My 2012 Mac Mini is easy to open and replace the hard drives and memory.

My PowerMac Digital G3 didn't even need a screwdriver to open the case and had standard expansion!

The Mac Pro used to simplicity itself to open and expand things without wires dangling all over the place like most PCs.

From my perspective, this is NOT about absolute cost, but about Apple increasingly making their hardware with fewer options and harder and harder to service, let alone expand yourself for NO OTHER REASON than GREED. There is no reason on earth for these decisions to solder hard drives, etc. and void warranties other than GREED.

Apple has become VERY GREEDY under Tim Cook. The man has no morals what-so-ever about being greedy while having ZERO imagination or creativity. I have no idea why Steve Jobs selected HIM as his replacement. Everything is by the numbers now and not about the best they can make but the best they think they can get away with and still make sales. THAT bothers me. Steve used to make empowering people his first concern. Profits came with happy customers. Tim thinks we're addicted to iPhones so they can charge anything they want....

My problem with Microsoft is control reasons. Forced updates. Forced connections. Constant security crap if you change hardware or whatever in the past. They were obsessed with software control instead of hardware control. You just can't win.

I've tried Linux over the years, but the lack of commercial software has never been solved and hundreds of variations means you don't get the newest stuff right away with those repositories, etc. You're dependent on others unless you want to compile yourself. It's not user friendly in the middle tech ground. It's for people that don't change much or like to do everything themselves.

In my mind, I tell myself that if Win or MacOS get too bad, I will just switch to Linux. It makes me feel better even tough I know there would be issues like Office360 and Outlook lacking. I do believe I can work around those.

But for now, I stay. But I do love Ubuntu and my webserver would never be without the venerable CentOS

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

In my mind, I tell myself that if Win or MacOS get too bad, I will just switch to Linux. It makes me feel better even tough I know there would be issues like Office360 and Outlook lacking. I do believe I can work around those.

But for now, I stay. But I do love Ubuntu and my webserver would never be without the venerable CentOS

I think you CAN work around the Mini issues (i.e. just boot external or keep only the base OS on the main drive and if you need to game in macOS or Windows Boot Camp get a universal external graphics card or just buy a PC for gaming), but I'd be curious to see this new Mac Pro design that's supposed to be coming. It's not impossible it'd end up the same price or somewhat cheaper if it allowed REAL internal expansion (or modules that could hold real cards, etc.) The old base cheese grater Mac Pro was a better deal than trying to make an iMac work. A typical computer today would last about 2-3x as long if the graphics card can be updated for most tasks (CPUs aren't getting radically faster and SSDs are so fast most people wouldn't complain). But with something like the iMac Pro, you're SOL if the monitor breaks or vice versa and no changes to be had. At least when you put out the cash for an external graphics box, you can update the card inside.

 

[F-Train]

A typical computer today would last about 2-3x as long if the graphics card can be updated for most tasks (CPUs aren't getting radically faster and SSDs are so fast most people wouldn't complain). ... At least when you put out the cash for an external graphics box, you can update the card inside.

You're starting to get it. Next step, realise that connecting more than one graphics card may be beneficial.

For digital film and video, the mini has serious, cost-effective potential.

By the way, the Blackmagic eGPU card can't be replaced, but that's going to engender a lot of competition.

 

[pl1984]

It should be crystal clear from what I just wrote. It has also been the subject of discussion among professional filmmakers both on the internet generally and on YouTube in the last week.

Perhaps it should but it's not hence the reason for my question.

You could start by finding out what LumaForge is and watching the following short video. There is already at least one video that goes into considerably more detail on the subjects touched on in this one:

I could but then I would be doing the research to support your premise, not something that is my responsibility. Having watched the video I still do not have an answer to my question: What are the advantages to using an eGPU as opposed to in internal GPU? Note the question is not: How does an eGPU substitute for the Mac Mini's integrate graphics. Your video touches on the latter and not the former.
[doublepost=1541454592][/doublepost]

You're starting to get it. Next step, realise that connecting more than one graphics card may be beneficial.

How is connecting more than one graphics card externally any better than installing more than one graphics card internally?

 

[F-Train]

Perhaps it should but it's not hence the reason for my question.


I could but then I would be doing the research to support your premise, not something that is my responsibility. Having watched the video I still do not have an answer to my question: What are the advantages to using an eGPU as opposed to in internal GPU? Note the question is not: How does an eGPU substitute for the Mac Mini's integrate graphics. Your video touches on the latter and not the former.

Maybe look at this Wikipedia article on what a rendering farm is, which should have been clear from the video and its related discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_farm On a simpler level, it's part of what video editing applications like Final Cut, and related applications like Motion and Compressor, do.

If you are actually interested, which I frankly doubt, this video from a production house elaborates on much of what is said in the shorter video that I posted (the basic messages are in the first 3:15 minutes):

 

[pl1984]

If you are actually interested, which I frankly doubt, this video from a production house elaborates on much of what is said in the shorter video that I posted (the basic messages are in the first 3:15 minutes)

I watched the first 3:15 minutes of that video and I still do not see an answer to my question: What advantageous do eGPUs have over internal GPUs? Again the question is not "What advantages do eGPUs have over the Mini's internal GPU". I understand the Mini's internal GPU is, relatively speaking, weak. Therefore eGPU is the only option. Having recognized that what advantage does an eGPU have over the same GPU plugged into a PCIe slot?

This is a serious question, if you do not feel it is please do not respond.

 

[F-Train]

I watched the first 3:15 minutes of that video and I still do not see an answer to my question: What advantageous do eGPUs have over internal GPUs? Again the question is not "What advantages do eGPUs have over the Mini's internal GPU". I understand the Mini's internal GPU is, relatively speaking, weak. Therefore eGPU is the only option. Having recognized that what advantage does an eGPU have over the same GPU plugged into a PCIe slot?

You know, some of us look at this as part of a workflow using a small, cost-effective machine, to which more than one eGPU can be easily connected if desired. It is perfectly clear at this point that you know nothing about film and video production, and that you don't care to know anything, not that that has prevented you and others from pontificating from the sidelines.

You're just looking for an argument. Look elsewhere. Myself, I'm going to enjoy a glass of wine.

 

[archer75]

I watched the first 3:15 minutes of that video and I still do not see an answer to my question: What advantageous do eGPUs have over internal GPUs? Again the question is not "What advantages do eGPUs have over the Mini's internal GPU". I understand the Mini's internal GPU is, relatively speaking, weak. Therefore eGPU is the only option. Having recognized that what advantage does an eGPU have over the same GPU plugged into a PCIe slot?

The advantage is they are much more powerful than what could be included in a small form factor computer. And in a small form factor cooling is a big concern.
Most don't need an egpu so that keeps costs down for them and allows these smaller computers to use all cooling for the CPU.

 

[pl1984]

The advantage is they are much more powerful than what could be included in a small form factor computer. And in a small form factor cooling is a big concern.
Most don't need an egpu so that keeps costs down for them and allows these smaller computers to use all cooling for the CPU.

Perhaps it would be of benefit for Apple to release a computer that isn't so small and could fit an internal GPU instead of relying on utilizing an external one. The foot print of a Mini along with an external GPU doesn't seem like it saves any more space over just utilizing a larger enclosure.

 

[tpivette89]

Perhaps it would be of benefit for Apple to release a computer that isn't so small and could fit an internal GPU instead of relying on utilizing an external one. The foot print of a Mini along with an external GPU doesn't seem like it saves any more space over just utilizing a larger enclosure.

I would think most who buy a Mini will not need to utilize an external GPU, instead be just fine with what Apple provided.

For those who need something more, they will either move up to a eGPU or wait until the nMP is released.

 

[archer75]

Perhaps it would be of benefit for Apple to release a computer that isn't so small and could fit an internal GPU instead of relying on utilizing an external one. The foot print of a Mini along with an external GPU doesn't seem like it saves any more space over just utilizing a larger enclosure.

Like a desktop? Never gonna happen. Closest you're going to come is a mac pro.
At least with a egpu you can decide what you need. Not everyone needs them. Most don't. Why include something most people don't need? Drive up cost, increase heat, for something most people don't need.
Apple is fully embracing the egpu.

 

[pl1984]

I would think most who buy a Mini will not need to utilize an external GPU, instead be just fine with what Apple provided.

For those who need something more, they will either move up to a eGPU or wait until the nMP is released.

I agree but Apple seems to be moving in the eGPU direction.
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Like a desktop? Never gonna happen. Closest you're going to come is a mac pro.

Exactly! By the time you get done adding external devices you've consumed space in excess of having everything internal.

At least with a egpu you can decide what you need. Not everyone needs them. Most don't. Why include something most people don't need? Drive up cost, increase heat, for something most people don't need.
Apple is fully embracing the egpu.

A desktop can accommodate everything from entry level to high end. I recently purchased a new computer and it came with entry level graphics. However if I want to I can easily swap it out (or add to) for a more capable card.

 

[Hater]

In my mind, I tell myself that if Win or MacOS get too bad, I will just switch to Linux. It makes me feel better even tough I know there would be issues like Office360 and Outlook lacking. I do believe I can work around those.

But for now, I stay. But I do love Ubuntu and my webserver would never be without the venerable CentOS

Don't buy a new Mini then.

T2 equipped macs can't boot Linux - The T2 is only authorised to let you boot Win10 or MacOS.

 

[Cape Dave]

Don't buy a new Mini then.

T2 equipped macs can't boot Linux - The T2 is only authorised to let you boot Win10 or MacOS.

Wow! Thanks for that info. I did not know that. Ironically, it would be such a cool Linux machine

 

[dandeco]

I am very impressed with this new Mac Mini. The only downside to me is the higher pricing, but given that these new Mac Minis are way more beefed-up, it's understandable. Once the time comes to replace my 2012 quad-core i7 Mac Mini (like if it stops working properly, or will no longer support new versions of the Mac OS) and I have a better source of income, I'll most likely go for the 6-core i5 model and configure it with a 512 GB SSD. Then somewhere down the line I'll upgrade the RAM to 16 GB, or maybe even 32 GB if I'm willing or able to spend more. Then I may need to get a Thunderbolt 3/USB-C dock or hub that'll let me use at least a couple extra USB-3 ports.

 

[Miat]

T2 equipped macs can't boot Linux - The T2 is only authorised to let you boot Win10 or MacOS.

Expensive storage, soldered in, and can't run Linux.

Dear Apple

re: Locking out Linux with the T2 chip

F&π^$@#%#/œ*ƒ!

Yours, etc


But seriously, that is a big point against Macs for me. I was looking at setting up a dual boot, which is one reason the storage cost is an issue for me.

 

[StellarVixen]

Expensive storage, soldered in, and can't run Linux.

Dear Apple

re: Locking out Linux with the T2 chip

F&π^$@#%#/œ*ƒ!

Yours, etc


But seriously, that is a big point against Macs for me. I was looking at setting up a dual boot, which is one reason the storage cost is an issue for me.

The amount of misinformation on this forum is crazy.

If you disable Secure Boot, you can boot into whatever you want OS! Period.

I've heard that there is lack of drivers for WiFi and trackpad on 2018 MBP, but that is another thing.

 

[Miat]

Over to you, Hater...

 

[Stephen.R]

It's really simple. If you feel those are reasonable prices for you, go ahead and buy one. Buy two or three even. But trying to defend greed is ridiculous.

If you feel those are unreasonable prices for you, don't buy one. Definitely don't buy two or three. But confusing different priorities for "greed" is ridiculous.

Edit: removed morderated comment.

 

[edgerider]

I am super impressed with this mac mini because it tells 2 things : the new mac-pro will be memory upgradable, and will have 10gbe.
now, no mater how you turn it, thundebolt is only pcie 3.0 x4....
so a egpu will never run full speed.
to me the macmini screams one thing :
„make me a server please“
and all the clustering technology will apply to the bigger „pro machine“

 

[pl1984]

T2 equipped macs can't boot Linux - The T2 is only authorised to let you boot Win10 or MacOS.

Is this true? If so that's disappointing. I'm also surprised no one has objected to such a limitation. I remember when Microsoft was implementing Secure Boot and all the accusations where they were trying to lock out open source. They got raked over the coals for something that was optional.

 

[archer75]

I agree but Apple seems to be moving in the eGPU direction.
[doublepost=1541467988][/doublepost]
Exactly! By the time you get done adding external devices you've consumed space in excess of having everything internal.


A desktop can accommodate everything from entry level to high end. I recently purchased a new computer and it came with entry level graphics. However if I want to I can easily swap it out (or add to) for a more capable card.

I'm aware of what a desktop can do. I have many of them. I've been building PC's for 20 years. Apple is never going to do it. The desktop is dying. Sad but true.

 

[pl1984]

I'm aware of what a desktop can do. I have many of them. I've been building PC's for 20 years. Apple is never going to do it. The desktop is dying. Sad but true.

Is it? I guess my point is if you're going to offer a small, compact computer but then require expansion be performed outside of the chassis you effectively consume the space of a desktop computer. So why not offer one? I have a 6,1 Mac Pro and with external storage attached to it it consumes no less space than a small desktop which could house everything internally and be a lot less cluttered.

 

[archer75]

Is it? I guess my point is if you're going to offer a small, compact computer but then require expansion be performed outside of the chassis you effectively consume the space of a desktop computer. So why not offer one? I have a 6,1 Mac Pro and with external storage attached to it it consumes no less space than a small desktop which could house everything internally and be a lot less cluttered.

Because not everyone is going to need or want all the external parts that would take up the same space.
Any GPU they put in the mini wouldn't be worth it, would only add to the cost and would increase heat. Pointless. And it would be soldered in. If it dies your computer is dead. I'd much rather use an egpu. Which is where I see the market going. PC sales are on the decline. Most people don't need high end video cards and I can see manufacturers moving to smaller form factor PC's and embracing egpu's.
With all these external components I can also connect a laptop as needed, desktops, etc. So these components can serve more than one machine.

Again, apple isn't going to offer the desktop you're asking for. You can argue all you want, everyone else has, but apple will never do it. I completely understand what you're saying. I've made the same arguments in the past. It just isn't going to happen. The desktop as you and I know it really is dying.

 

[pl1984]

Because not everyone is going to need or want all the external parts that would take up the same space.
Any GPU they put in the mini wouldn't be worth it, would only add to the cost and would increase heat. Pointless. And it would be soldered in. If it dies your computer is dead. I'd much rather use an egpu. Which is where I see the market going. PC sales are on the decline. Most people don't need high end video cards and I can see manufacturers moving to smaller form factor PC's and embracing egpu's.
With all these external components I can also connect a laptop as needed, desktops, etc. So these components can serve more than one machine.

I agree with a lot of what you've written however keep in mind the focus of my comments is for those who do want the capability of a higher capability GPU. The people who are praising the ability of the new Mac Mini because of its ability to use external GPUs through Thunderbolt. Or praising the general expansion capability of this Mini. There's been a lot of discussion about how expandable this new Mini is (and I agree, it's very capable). But then when one considers the space that expansion consumes it kind of defeats the goal of having a small, compact computer.

Again, apple isn't going to offer the desktop you're asking for. You can argue all you want, everyone else has, but apple will never do it. I completely understand what you're saying. I've made the same arguments in the past. It just isn't going to happen. The desktop as you and I know it really is dying.

Apple will never do it if their users don't demand it of them. People seem all too willing to accept a small form factor computer that requires expansion outside of the chassis. Expansion that negates any benefit to having a small form factor computer.