Just curious if you were using sata ssd or spinners before going to NVMe, and exactly where do you notice NVMe gives you night and day difference vs sata ssd.
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New Mac Mini is out. Is (almost) everyone happy now?
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Just curious if you were using sata ssd or spinners before going to NVMe, and exactly where do you notice NVMe gives you night and day difference vs sata ssd.
Really? SATA 3 is roughly 600mb/s, while MVMe is at MINUMUM 1500mb/s... most of the time greater than 2500mb/s
SSD pricing aside, I think Apple have come up with a pretty good offering with the new Mini, particularly in keeping and updating the port array (depending a bit on how many controllers they are using for the TB3 ports). They are clearly pitching to at least some sections of the pro market.
I am not unhappy with the basic specs and package, just the SSD pricing.
If this is what they have done with the Mini, imagine what the 2019 Mac Pro is going to look like!
That is the answer. Apple should offer the choice between two speeds of SSD – consumer and pro.
NVMe is waaaay overkill for me. Nothing I do requires anywhere near those speeds. (Which does mean that using an external boot drive is a realistic and affordable option for me. So there's that.)
Though the consumer grade should still use MLC if it is going to be soldered in. The difference should be in the speeds and pricing.
I know the numbers, I'm curious in the real world, where users feel it's so amazing to justify pricing over sata ssds.
Bang for buck... collated info from geekbench and everymac
i3-8100 better in performance than all previous Mac Mini (should be right? unlike 2014)
i7-8700 is 2x performance of i3-8100
i3-8100 is 1.8-2.3x better than previous 2014 model
i5-8500 is 2.6-3.4x better than previous 2014 model
i7-8700 is 3.3-4.3x better than previous 2014 model
"Dear Dan, 5x sounds better, please change the numbers on the presentation." - Phillip
i3-8100 better in performance than all previous Mac Mini (should be right? unlike 2014)
i7-8700 is 2x performance of i3-8100
i3-8100 is 1.8-2.3x better than previous 2014 model
i5-8500 is 2.6-3.4x better than previous 2014 model
i7-8700 is 3.3-4.3x better than previous 2014 model
"Dear Dan, 5x sounds better, please change the numbers on the presentation." - Phillip
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Been using Samsung Pro 960 for over 4 or 5 years, so I forget
I did onsite tech support for 17 years so I had enough slow to last 50 lifetimes.
I’m curious why people still think the Mac mini is a “consumer” computer now.
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Of course! Outdated drives to match outdated ports.
Just put a spinning HDD, a bunch of USB2, FireWire, nobody needs TB3... oh wait... then it’s just the previous Mac mini with a new cpu. Maybe that’s what people wanted after all.
Well that's actually untrue, the Samsung nvme ssd drives have equal performance to the Apple ones and cost way less then Apple charges.
Yes, you sound so VERY humble in your opinion.
It's nice that you like to keep the CEO in stock options, new cars, champagne and caviar by spending 2-3x what the drives are worth and driving a Mac Mini into the $4000+ price range with a 2TB drive.
(i.e. It's not about NVMe vs Sata; it's about charging a FORTUNE for NVMe. Here's a 2TB NVMe for $629. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...u9a83gIV0VqGCh2qbQ71EAQYASABEgISgfD_BwE&smp=y)
1TB version $299. Nice plugin connector instead of soldered....
Tell me another story, dude.
The Mac Mini went from an entry level computer that a real consumer could afford to priced at 2x what a cheese grater Mac Pro used to cost ten years ago with most of that change based on their inflated RAM and Hard Drive prices to get figures that are not that big in this day and age. I have 10TB on my current Mac Mini. 256GB just doesn't cut it and having to go instantly external because Apple soldered everything is RIDICULOUS and "no one on this planet can tell me that" paying out the butt just for the hell of it is better.
... to a configurable Pro machine.
eGPU only helps, if the application supports it. That's a big difference to an internal GPU. And the price and compatibility is also a factor.
Yes they do, but that wasn't the point of the post. If you can find a 2TB NVME drive for 350$, you'll make a lot of people *really* happy.
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I think you should tell that to BMW, Audi, Porsche, etc. And when you've convinced them, you should tell Apple.
Won't be lucky for too long for those claims buying 512GB SSDs for $49.99
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I personally believe that the IO per second is a more important measure compare to linear access, which NVMe are about 5 time faster compares to SATA drive(even the same branding and class).
I never said I would buy one at those pricesYes, you sound so VERY humble in your opinion.
It's nice that you like to keep the CEO in stock options, new cars, champagne and caviar by spending 2-3x what the drives are worth and driving a Mac Mini into the $4000+ price range with a 2TB drive.
(i.e. It's not about NVMe vs Sata; it's about charging a FORTUNE for NVMe. Here's a 2TB NVMe for $629. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...u9a83gIV0VqGCh2qbQ71EAQYASABEgISgfD_BwE&smp=y)
1TB version $299. Nice plugin connector instead of soldered....
Tell me another story, dude.
The Mac Mini went from an entry level computer that a real consumer could afford to priced at 2x what a cheese grater Mac Pro used to cost ten years ago with most of that change based on their inflated RAM and Hard Drive prices to get figures that are not that big in this day and age. I have 10TB on my current Mac Mini. 256GB just doesn't cut it and having to go instantly external because Apple soldered everything is RIDICULOUS and "no one on this planet can tell me that" paying out the butt just for the hell of it is better.
And the soldered SSD is absurd. So we do agree on many things... in our humble opinions
They should be user changeable and WAY less money. Everyone who buys Apple knows there is a "Apple Tax" but this is way over the top.
And if we go all the way back to the original mac, at $2,500, or $5,915 when adjusted for inflation, the new mini is an absolute steal! Talking about just RAM we get a 125,000x increase, for a fraction of the price. Impressive.
Mike
I don't recall saying it was better, just that most people wouldn't notice the difference. All else being equal I prefer NVMe SSDs over SATA SSDs.
It's no more pro than it was in 2012 with the server edition. It cost around $1200 fully configured back then. Now it's over $4000. It sounds like "Pro" to you means "costly". And just look at the wonderful graphics card you get at that price too! Intel graphics!!! Woohooo!!!!! Geebus....
Configurable? WTF does that mean? No user replaceable parts???? Yeah, that's a FANTASTIC feature!
Wow. That's amazing logic. Compare a rip off back then to a rip off now. I take it you didn't look at REAL computers back when Mac were pieces of crap? Hell, the Apple II was a better computer. I owned Amiga computers in the late 80s and through the 1990s. Macs were garbage then, mostly due to insane hardware prices (those are clearly still around) and the totally junky classic Mac operating system that couldn't multitask and crashed constantly if you even tried it. I had no such issues with my Amiga 3000 I had from 1991 to 1999.
I never said I would buy one at those prices
And the soldered SSD is absurd. So we do agree on many things... in our humble opinions
They should be user changeable and WAY less money. Everyone who buys Apple knows there is a "Apple Tax" but this is way over the top.
I'm shocked. A post I can agree with. I don't mind paying a bit more for Apple because I despise the Microsoft operating system (never liked Classic Macs, but OS X is much closer to an Amiga than either Classic Mac or Dos or Windows, seeing the Amiga was partly based on Unix as well). What bothers me is Apple PURPOSELY doing things to increase their profits at our expense like GLUING cases and using non-standard screws and bolt heads (to try and force you to use Apple repairs or buy Appel Care), soldering parts so you can't replace them with cheaper alternatives (and have to pay through the nose to buy them from Apple on Day 1 whether you want or can afford them or not).
By comparison, my 2008 Macbook Pro had user replaceable ram slots, a replaceable battery, a STANDARD expansion port and LOADS of standard connections and a reasonable GPU for a notebook. It didn't need a damn thing added to it at the time! No dongles. No external graphics card. No praying your battery wouldn't die on you because you couldn't change it out! $1600 on sale ($2000 normal). The hard drive was pretty easy to get to and replace as well. The only trouble I ever had was a fan went bad (making loads of noise with bad bearing) and I replaced that myself as well.
My 2012 Mac Mini is easy to open and replace the hard drives and memory.
My PowerMac Digital G3 didn't even need a screwdriver to open the case and had standard expansion!
The Mac Pro used to simplicity itself to open and expand things without wires dangling all over the place like most PCs.
From my perspective, this is NOT about absolute cost, but about Apple increasingly making their hardware with fewer options and harder and harder to service, let alone expand yourself for NO OTHER REASON than GREED. There is no reason on earth for these decisions to solder hard drives, etc. and void warranties other than GREED.
Apple has become VERY GREEDY under Tim Cook. The man has no morals what-so-ever about being greedy while having ZERO imagination or creativity. I have no idea why Steve Jobs selected HIM as his replacement. Everything is by the numbers now and not about the best they can make but the best they think they can get away with and still make sales. THAT bothers me. Steve used to make empowering people his first concern. Profits came with happy customers. Tim thinks we're addicted to iPhones so they can charge anything they want....
My problem with Microsoft is control reasons. Forced updates. Forced connections. Constant security crap if you change hardware or whatever in the past. They were obsessed with software control instead of hardware control. You just can't win.
I've tried Linux over the years, but the lack of commercial software has never been solved and hundreds of variations means you don't get the newest stuff right away with those repositories, etc. You're dependent on others unless you want to compile yourself. It's not user friendly in the middle tech ground. It's for people that don't change much or like to do everything themselves.
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Wait, the 2012 Mac Mini supports 64GB of RAM, 10GbE, has 160Gbps of external I/O and runs 6-core desktop CPUs? I must have missed that. No wonder people were bummed about the 2014 models.
It sounds like "Pro" to you means "Requires a high performance GPU".
I'm not a dictionary service buddy. If you're on macOS the built-in dictionary can define it for you, with an example related specifically to a computer.
Basing your comments on the past hardware offerings on future standards is just beyond absurd. I can't deal with total non-logic, not to mention that macOS requires FAR more resources these days to even run. Those resources don't cost more now than they did then other than SSD to some extent (not the extent Apple charges for them, however).
"Decent performance" would be OK. Apple ALWAYS picks GARBAGE performance because it doesn't cost them anything. A $4000+ Mac Mini DESKTOP should not be using Intel Graphics. Period. Most PCs package higher level offerings together. They don't sell $4000 desktops with $600 entry level machine graphics.
It's really simple. If you feel those are reasonable prices for you, go ahead and buy one. Buy two or three even. But trying to defend greed is ridiculous. This isn't about Apple Tax. This is about purposely doing things to stop people from upgrading and servicing their own machines to squeeze out every last dollar. The security settings in macOS aren't to protect you as much as it is to keep pointing Macs towards the overpriced App Store instead of other services or open software that doesn't cost as much or anything even. Everything Apple does is to profit them and not the user. That's the difference between Steve's Apple and Tim's Apple. Steve didn't do stock buybacks and things like that and made sure the product was at least quality for the money. We're at a point where a $499 Android is as good as an $1100 iPhone or even better and Apple not only doesn't care, they keep raising their prices anyway and now they won't even report their sales numbers because it's obvious they're choosing fanatics who will pay ANYTHING for an "iPhone" over real competition.
I'm put in a bind between nosey Microsoft and crappy Apple hardware and/or prices. I don't much like either company at this point. My brand loyalty is ZERO. I already switched to KODI for home playback instead of limited AppleTV for most rooms in the house. I bought a Microsoft phone for a pittance and for my needs it's unbelievable (the browser is STILL lightyears faster than my 5th Gen iPod Touch and it cost $38 on sale two years ago!) I don't buy Apple because it's Apple. I expect some actual value in return.
If I get a new Mini, I'll have to limit the internal hard drive and go external. Their prices aren't reasonable and it can quickly double the costs of the machine.
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A few comments...
The professional video community is fine with the move toward external GPUs, and is interested in the ability to use more than one eGPU on a single machine, particularly for rendering, for which the Mac mini should be excellent. Unfortunately, bulletin board commenters are not always knowledgeable about the workflow and interests of important classes of customers.
Rants about the cost/configuration of Apple computers never seem to mention the whole picture. In 2012, I paid US$300 for Final Cut and $200 for Logic. The price is the same today, and users have not been charged for a single upgrade. For me, the cost for both works out to $83/year and is falling every year. It is instructive to compare that with the cost of Adobe Premiere and Adobe Audition, both requiring an annual subscription. For a direct Logic competitor, the price of Ableton Live is similarly instructive. Ableton currently costs $750 for the full version, plus the cost of upgrades.
We can't know what Steve Jobs would have done about shares in Apple. What we do know is that the decision to institute buybacks, as well as dividends, reflected the wishes of shareholders, who happen to own the company, and has not attracted criticism from shareholders or anybody else who has a financial interest in Apple.
The professional video community is fine with the move toward external GPUs, and is interested in the ability to use more than one eGPU on a single machine, particularly for rendering, for which the Mac mini should be excellent. Unfortunately, bulletin board commenters are not always knowledgeable about the workflow and interests of important classes of customers.
Rants about the cost/configuration of Apple computers never seem to mention the whole picture. In 2012, I paid US$300 for Final Cut and $200 for Logic. The price is the same today, and users have not been charged for a single upgrade. For me, the cost for both works out to $83/year and is falling every year. It is instructive to compare that with the cost of Adobe Premiere and Adobe Audition, both requiring an annual subscription. For a direct Logic competitor, the price of Ableton Live is similarly instructive. Ableton currently costs $750 for the full version, plus the cost of upgrades.
We can't know what Steve Jobs would have done about shares in Apple. What we do know is that the decision to institute buybacks, as well as dividends, reflected the wishes of shareholders, who happen to own the company, and has not attracted criticism from shareholders or anybody else who has a financial interest in Apple.
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Are they? What are the advantages to using external GPUs instead of internal ones?
It should be crystal clear from what I just wrote. It has also been the subject of discussion among professional filmmakers both on the internet generally and on YouTube in the last week.
You could start by finding out what LumaForge is and watching the following short video. There is already at least one video that goes into considerably more detail on the subjects touched on in this one:
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