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New Mac Pros are here
- Thread starter goMac
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One's things is for sure - tip of the hat for originality - no one could have predicted this today
Thanks. I needed that laugh.
Pac Man for MacIntosh
PS: I went to the Apple store - I couldn't find any mention of "Ivy Bridge", just Xeon - that could be the old processor with a speed bump.
the price of the upgrade ie the 3.33 Xeno chip upgrade on the base Mac Pro
has gone from nine hundred odd pounds down to 400 ish, thats all i can see the difference.
pity someone didnt have a screen shot of the page pre update.
has gone from nine hundred odd pounds down to 400 ish, thats all i can see the difference.
pity someone didnt have a screen shot of the page pre update.
There are more differences and they've been mentioned in these threads already.
iMac Pro?? Pft... screw that. I want a big, boxy, space-wasting, monitor-less computer sitting next to my desk. Not an all-in-one computer that gets so hot you could lay it flat and cook eggs on its back.
I cannot believe the disappointment coming for this update.
My friends must be right all along telling me that Apple was a piece POS company... All those years fighting for Apple... I feel like a sucker inside.
Any idea what video card i can put in place of the ol' 5770 if i order one ?
Dont forget to say hello to Tim ; tcook@apple.com
My friends must be right all along telling me that Apple was a piece POS company... All those years fighting for Apple... I feel like a sucker inside.
Any idea what video card i can put in place of the ol' 5770 if i order one ?
Dont forget to say hello to Tim ; tcook@apple.com
I understand they care more about iOS now, but the people making all the apps and driving development of iOS are almost being mocked by how little Apple seem to care about them these days. I dunno, it's pretty lame tbh. You can do a lot of stuff on a top of the line iMac these days but the Pro is just such a solid beast
I at least expected them to use SB-E5's in order to keep up with other vendors (as well as divide the development cost per board by more units as a result of following Intel's Tick-Tock cycle). I didn't really hold out hope for PCIe 3.0, USB 3.0, as they're not included in the C600 chipset, or even TB (since it reduces the parts count & design cost = lower cost per unit).
This really doesn't bode well IMO. At least not as we currently know the MP.
Major disappointment IMHO, and the lack of a GPU update is just twisting the knife even more.
This really doesn't bode well IMO. At least not as we currently know the MP.
Major disappointment IMHO, and the lack of a GPU update is just twisting the knife even more.
That makes me wonder, where they somehow waiting for a "thunderbolt Mac Pro?" That would seem awfully silly. They have had these processors out for over a year (nearly a year and half), its been known that SB-E5s were majorly delayed for at least 9 months or so, what was the surprise? Do they really expect people to buy this hunk of overpriced junk? Ok its not junk, but for the same price as the 2.4 (turbo 2.66) 12 core, you can get the HP Z620 with 2 2630s at 2.3 base (all 6 cores active at 2.6, max 2.8). Many of us here love OSX and are wedded to it for a number of reasons, but I'm not sure THAT many love it enough to justify such a downward move.
That's not obvious at all. Apple has one of the tightest supply chains on earth. Their inventory turns over every 5 days.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/05/31/apple_turns_over_entire_inventory_every_five_days.html
And if you are right, why even bother with a CPU/memory bump? A new SKU and new parts in its final days? It doesn't make any sense.
Keep in mind, that historically, Apple waits for features to be implemented in the chipset for the MP's. Now when you look at the C600 series (works with SB-E5 and IB-E6 due to Intel's Tick-Tock cycle), it does not contain USB 3.0, PCIe 3.0, or TB.
Though it's possible to add USB 3.0 and TB via additional chips, don't expect an IB based MP with those features, and certainly not PCIe 3.0 slots.
The EOL of the MP with the iMac Pro as a replacement makes far more sense at this point IMHO (helped by the delay on the LGA2011 socket parts, but by no means the only factor in such a decision).
Quite right, the chipset feature is a big deal here. It is possible we do see something like an iMac Pro, but I'd be worried its more like the Retina Macbook Pro, than any really workstation. Meaning big price increases for things like retina display and big SSDs without any real performance increase.
PCIe v3.0 isn't on the C600 chipset because it is on the E5 itself. Actually the 8 PCI-e 2.0 lanes on the chipset is an upgrade from the previous version if I recall correctly.
USB 3.0 is missing because Apple really doing do anything. It is just as missing from this "speed bump" as it is missing in the transition from the 2009 model to the 2010 one. It is exactly the same motherboard. This is even more lazy than the 2009-2010 transition because it suspect it is exactly the same firmware. Wouldn't be surprising if these boxes still report they are machine model MacPro5,1 . Because they are.
Well I never bought that one either. However, that was mainly because TB solved a problem that the Mac Pro didn't have in the first place. Let's say in an alternative universe Apple modified the old 2009 motherboard to have Thunderbolt. Would that alone have saved this Mac Pro update. Same older CPUs, Same 3 year old GPUs. Same SATA II internal drive slide properties, no PCI-e v3.0 .... but all that is OK because have Thunderbolt. Seriously? Apple could put Thunderbolt on a 4 year old MacBook and that would be OK?
It does slightly.
a. Apple actually bothered to do "something". Yeah they dropped the ball. But at least it is something. We don't intend this. The MBP 17" and Macbook are just gone. They are signaling a bit where they are going for those paying attention.
b. With 10.8 coming next month, instead of August, there is a window that Mac Pro might slide behind anyway. This update is so lame they could kill it off in 3-4 months. If they had put some effort into it there would be some small need for ROI. Since this is technically just a Mac5,1 no effort.
c. If this stays a mac5,1 the support window on the 5,1 is extended longer. Since the 4,1 and 5,1 are pretty close to the same that probably extends 4,1 OS coverage longer too.
Not saying this was a good update. I think it more the case " in the same state before as after" update.
Intel retired the 3400 Xeons
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/2012060501_Intel_discontinues_Xeon_and_Atom_processors.html
Not used in Mac Pros but those boxes don't have new CPU replacements.
Like said previously this look more like someone royally screwed up and this is just a placeholder for a fix that is going to take many months to roll out.
If Apple had been planning a speed bump for a long while there would have been something. For example, when the early 2011 MBP's 15" speed bumped a bit in last 2011 there was a CPU and GPU update. I don't recall offhand a speedbump update from Apple that was solely just CPUs unless there was integrated graphics involved.
This smells of a desperate attempt to just do anything to send a signal. So find faster CPUs at the same price point and ship it. They don't have to interface with AMD/Nvidia on new video drivers. No firmware update at all. Just tweak it so can label it "New" and get it out the door. Even that is funny because having just yanked down the "New Mac Pro" label from the webpage they haven't even bothered to put it back.
Ironic too. If go back 6-10 months ago there were numerous rants about how "at least Apple could have just speed bumped them to show they are alive. That's all" rants here. Here folks get the minimalistic bump and it is doom and gloom. [I know different folks with different view but it is kind of funny. ]
P.S. If Apple was feeling generous but couldn't get the GPU updates for the Mac Pro CTO out before the Mountain Lion update ( not releasing new drivers for a month). The perhaps they could just tweak the GPU options after the Mountain Lion release and send those few who bought cards in the mean time a "Free" GPU. Yeah it would cost them money but that almost the round-off error on the interest they earn on their cash hoard.
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An interesting observation.
I agree, it doesn't make sense if they're planning an EOL. Folks, let's entertain a possibility along these lines:
Apple is a company, and companies like to make money. Granted, the niche market for MPs is not their main course, but it's surely at least a side dish. As awesome as steak is, it's even better with a baked potato, hmm? Okay it's a crude analogy, but worth consideration IMO.
My point is this: MPs are profitable for them to some extent, yes? Does anyone here really think that Apple is unaware of what's being said in the various articles we've been reading about the long-awaited MP refresh (and yes, on the Facebook page too), and even in MR and other forums?
What of they did run into technical issues with something new they're trying to implement in the MP? What if they know that it's not necessarily in their best interests to announce such a thing to the public because they don't want bad press about it? And in the meantime, knowing that people like us have been eagerly anticipating *something* from them, what if they chose an interim step with the CPU bump because they don't want to lose their niche market either?
I could be wrong, obviously. And it doesn't seem to make sense that they didn't do other upgrades, like changing the GPU, SATA III, USB 3.0, etc. But maybe time was a factor with WWDC (and everything involved with that), especially considering the high expectation level from their MP market for them to get something out there by the time WWDC came around. Maybe the CPU bump with existing chips was the easiest for Apple to implement in they time they had. Maybe they saw that as a step to buy them some time while they got some things ironed out, and maybe they saw that as a potential face-saver for them. And maybe they did it silently because they knew that what they did wasn't enough to announce a full refresh but perhaps was the best they could do, even though they had to know that some would be disappointed with this move.
I know this is a lot of speculation, but what I'm trying to say is this: Don't give up. Don't give up. I choose to believe that this will turn out well. I believe we will see a full MP refresh - the one we've been waiting for.
I'm not tossing in the towel JUST yet, but...
"This is not the Mac Pro upgrade you were hoping for." - Ars Techica
Sheeeeeh. You ain't kiddin'...
SHO NUFF' wasn't worthy of a Keynote mention. Just a speed bump and some config and price shifts. We professional users are still second-class citizens at Apple. The "Truck Drivers" of the Computing world. No Ferrari's or Lexus's for the likes of us sweating troglodytes. 10-4 good buddy...
Since I was forced into a new Mac Pro Quad-core back in November - thankyouverymuch, Adobe. Was trying to put off till a significant update, but that's a whole separate rant. So I guess I can comfortably restrain any new-tech envy - since there's NO REASON TO HAVE ANY and I can sit with this model for the next 3-4 years if it behaves. For myself at least I can put off the Mac OS/Windows/Linux question for a little while longer.
But I would have sworn Apple would have at least wanted to get Thunderbolt, eSATA, USB 3, Bluetooth 4 and for GODS' SAKE, better Graphics Cards into the Pros. Perhaps Apple still does, but part of the stall may be that the Sandy Bridge E5-Series Xeon chips just came out too gorram late just this March over a year delayed, (thanks, Intel) for Apple to get any properly new Mac Pros into production.
One of the ongoing questions is that on the iMacs and MacBooks, Thunderbolt carries Data AND Video in the one "everything" port (...to rule them all). But on the pro side, users will want third party PCI and Graphics cards, use a spectrum of professional third party displays, broadcast monitors and the like with standard Video connectors. TB is a motherboard level protocol, but Mac Pros have by design run their video off a video card. So how Apple plans to solve that issue may also keep the work with the engineers a while yet figuring THAT one out. A Sandy Bridge, Thunderbolt enabled MP would certainly require a new motherboard design and probably other revisions to the internal engineering.
Perhaps the Pro will get some love, and new tech when the iMac gets it's next bump, or with Mountain Lion... but who knows. But with an "Official" update on the Apple Store now on the books... ("Hey, we upgraded the Pro, so chill the frak out already.") Apple can put off for another year or more, as more high-end users bail or are dragged off kicking and screaming for Windows and Linux workstations.
But as they say, "Apple does not comment on unreleased products."
Sarcasm intentional.
"This is not the Mac Pro upgrade you were hoping for." - Ars Techica
Sheeeeeh. You ain't kiddin'...
SHO NUFF' wasn't worthy of a Keynote mention. Just a speed bump and some config and price shifts. We professional users are still second-class citizens at Apple. The "Truck Drivers" of the Computing world. No Ferrari's or Lexus's for the likes of us sweating troglodytes. 10-4 good buddy...
Since I was forced into a new Mac Pro Quad-core back in November - thankyouverymuch, Adobe. Was trying to put off till a significant update, but that's a whole separate rant. So I guess I can comfortably restrain any new-tech envy - since there's NO REASON TO HAVE ANY and I can sit with this model for the next 3-4 years if it behaves. For myself at least I can put off the Mac OS/Windows/Linux question for a little while longer.
But I would have sworn Apple would have at least wanted to get Thunderbolt, eSATA, USB 3, Bluetooth 4 and for GODS' SAKE, better Graphics Cards into the Pros. Perhaps Apple still does, but part of the stall may be that the Sandy Bridge E5-Series Xeon chips just came out too gorram late just this March over a year delayed, (thanks, Intel) for Apple to get any properly new Mac Pros into production.
One of the ongoing questions is that on the iMacs and MacBooks, Thunderbolt carries Data AND Video in the one "everything" port (...to rule them all). But on the pro side, users will want third party PCI and Graphics cards, use a spectrum of professional third party displays, broadcast monitors and the like with standard Video connectors. TB is a motherboard level protocol, but Mac Pros have by design run their video off a video card. So how Apple plans to solve that issue may also keep the work with the engineers a while yet figuring THAT one out. A Sandy Bridge, Thunderbolt enabled MP would certainly require a new motherboard design and probably other revisions to the internal engineering.
Perhaps the Pro will get some love, and new tech when the iMac gets it's next bump, or with Mountain Lion... but who knows. But with an "Official" update on the Apple Store now on the books... ("Hey, we upgraded the Pro, so chill the frak out already.") Apple can put off for another year or more, as more high-end users bail or are dragged off kicking and screaming for Windows and Linux workstations.
But as they say, "Apple does not comment on unreleased products."
Sarcasm intentional.
Today, Apple took a giant step toward curtailing a vice, namely covetousness, by making us appreciate what we already have. Thanks be to Apple, for I know I won't be coveting my neighbor's spouse nor my neighbor's 2012 Mac Pro.
Theres no Thunder Bolt I'm PO Right now. Apple is just letting me down iOS6 is a let down, nothing real new, and mountain lion boring at least change the background more or something. Stop adding little things each year. Add something new!
iOS6 is a let down, nothing real new, and mountain lion boring at least change the background more or something. Stop adding little things each year. Add something new!I realize that.
But as you've mentioned, the C600 does actually have PCIe lanes, which aren't 3.0 spec. Granted, that's certainly not a deal breaker ATM, but keep in mind the longer development cycles could actually mean that chipset may be in service up to 4 years (figuring on 2 years per half of the Tick-Tock cycle if the development cycle on E5 isn't an anomaly, but the new norm).
So I see this as a larger potential for issues on future boards in the cycle as they could end up throttling 3rd party chips that are built on the PCIe 3.0 spec and utilize more bandwidth than 2.0 spec can deliver.
I should have clarified this, as SB does move the primary PCIe controller to the CPU.
They couldn't add USB 3.0 because they didn't change the boards (would have required a 3rd party chip).
There really wouldn't have been any development required at all. Drop in the new CPUID's and done (bit of testing to verify thermals and stability perhaps). Firmware, I highly doubt it, save perhaps adjusting the MP Identifier.
If you recall past threads, I don't see TB having a place on desktops at all. Just for niche users that need to share peripherals between multiple systems (i.e. data acquisition on a laptop and edited on the MP).
But users seem to be highly interested in it, and the MP is used in a segment that would find such niche users (video and audio professionals that do location work). They'd only need it for data, which would simplify the interconnects as well.
Maybe, but it's also possible the MP's sales figures actually have reached the point it's in it's death spiral to EOL (not investing any additional funds, but finding a way to milk it for every last cent they can).
Without hard figures they have absolutely no intention of making public, it's all educated guesses. Either scenario is possible, but I'd be more afraid if they just royally screwed up as has been suggested vs. it's begun the EOL spiral.
As per buying time to a new product, I do agree on that aspect, but I don't think it's a new MP, but rather an iMac aimed at professionals. Cuts costs while retaining customers should increase profit (logic it's based on anyway).
From my perspective, I've witnessed bean counters thinking like this (multi-national conglomerates that are top heavy in regard to management).
As per the speed bump, I do see it as an interim solution until the next product release, but I don't see this being done for an E5 based MP at this point, as they've had sufficient time to get it done (even if they're not quite ready to ship, there's been more than enough time to iron out the design and complete their verification and validation testing).
When I think in these terms, it reinforces the idea that a newer revision of the iMac will be used to replace the MP (remotely possible they switch over to a SP based headless system, aka the infamous xMac, but this isn't all that likely IMHO either).