iPhone SE (2016) New SE2 Rumor?

[Mac 128]

Anything smaller than iPhone X doesn't seem possible with the current size of the components. The photo below gives you an idea of how closely packed the TrueDepth module is next to the rear camera.

Even if the notch were made smaller, the hardware sensors still exist behind the OLED panel and would push up against the rear camera.

View attachment 819749

I see. There are definitely some challenges to be sure.

This is the real issue here. If, and it’s a big if, there’s another SE, I don’t think we’ll see iPhone X components, or a notch. We’ll see the same exact frame, slightly bumped components, and that’s it.

I tend to agree if there’s a new SE it will be an update of the original, basically a companion to the iPhone 8, as the original was to the 6s. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a redesigned case with a glass back though.

There’s also the possibility as someone mentioned earlier, that Apple eliminates the notch entirely on the SE, opting instead for a solid bar across the top, enabling them to move the sensors over to the left.

 

[Disconnect_00]

I tend to agree if there’s a new SE it will be an update of the original, basically a companion to the iPhone 8, as the original was to the 6s. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a redesigned case with a glass back though.

There’s also the possibility as someone mentioned earlier, that Apple eliminates the notch entirely on the SE, opting instead for a solid bar across the top, enabling them to move the sensors over to the left.

I'd agree on that. A glass back would make sense, as would making it essentially an iPhone 8. Both could be done pretty easily for Apple, and would still make sense at that lower (read: $499 or less) price point. Add in some fancy new wallpaper and Apple grade press shots and the SE looks new all over.

 

[JPack]

Seems like Apple could find a way around that. Using a single camera is the most likely response for a "budget" small phone, perhaps the smaller screen allows for a smaller battery (as a percentage of internal volume vs. the pictured X), relocate some other stuff, technological advances allow for smaller versions of existing components, etc. They can make some room.

The problem then becomes cost.

An SE2 form factor device with thin bezels means a larger display area. To power the display and Face ID, Apple would need a bigger battery. The iPhone X uses a stacked logic board and L-shaped battery to accomplish this. Could the SE2 use the same technology? Sure, but at what cost?

Small notch = requires OLED
Small form factor = requires stacked logic board; L-shaped battery; one rear camera

An SE2 with 4" form factor becomes a $799 phone with a single camera. Apple is all about volume. Would such a device generate the volume Apple wants? I think Apple would rather spend its efforts on a low-cost 5.8" iPhone to fight in the sub-XR market.

 

[EssModelsRule]

The problem then becomes cost.

An SE2 form factor device with thin bezels means a larger display area. To power the display and Face ID, Apple would need a bigger battery. The iPhone X uses a stacked logic board and L-shaped battery to accomplish this. Could the SE2 use the same technology? Sure, but at what cost?

Small notch = requires OLED
Small form factor = requires stacked logic board; L-shaped battery; one rear camera

An SE2 with 4" form factor becomes a $799 phone with a single camera. Apple is all about volume. Would such a device generate the volume Apple wants? I think Apple would rather spend its efforts on a low-cost 5.8" iPhone to fight in the sub-XR market.

Stacked logic boards and L-shaped batteries were certainly achievements that made the X possible, but as those features spread out and become the norm across the entire iPhone lineup over time the cost per unit will come down. Same with OLED screens, and supply has improved since the X launched. At any rate, I have no idea what Apple can or will do (although speculating is fun...) but there is at least some demand for a new phone from them that’s smaller than 5.8”. I like choices so I hope they can come up with something.

 

[44267547]

Seems like Apple could find a way around that. Using a single camera is the most likely response for a "budget" small phone, perhaps the smaller screen allows for a smaller battery (as a percentage of internal volume vs. the pictured X), relocate some other stuff, technological advances allow for smaller versions of existing components, etc. They can make some room.

They can make room...depending on the alterations they make, such as the 3.5 mm Jack being nonexistent, Touch ID being eliminated, using a more moderate version of the haptic engine versus the vibration motor that was in the original SE, no wireless charging module and perhaps altering the battery shape _if_ the internals allow for such measures. Those are the changes that will allow for ‘other’ advancements.

Either way, The one thing that no one wants to admit, the SE if it is revived, it will look nothing like it what it once did, it will probably be larger in size somewhat, but under 5 inches, which doesn’t even take in account on a different chassis they will use in addition.

Keep in mind, the SE was always originally intended to be an entry-level iPhone, if that’s the same goal, then they won’t include all the latest features with this phone either, if updated.

 

[EssModelsRule]

They can make room...depending on the alterations they make, such as the 3.5 mm Jack being nonexistent, Touch ID being eliminated, using a more moderate version of the haptic engine versus the vibration motor that was in the original SE, no wireless charging module and perhaps altering the battery shape _if_ the internals allow for such measures. Those are the changes that will allow for ‘other’ advancements.

Either way, The one thing that no one wants to admit, the SE if it is revived, it will look nothing like it what it once did, it will probably be larger in size somewhat, but under 5 inches, which doesn’t even take in account on a different chassis they will use in addition.

Keep in mind, the SE was always originally intended to be an entry-level iPhone, if that’s the same goal, then they won’t include all the latest accessorie features with this phone either, if updated.

I agree, what I see happening if Apple brings a new relatively small phone to market is a scaled down XR with something like a 5” to 5.3” screen. It will have nothing to do with the SE and I think that’s what most people clamoring for an “SE2” want, just a new phone option that’s smaller than XS. Not necessarily a budget entry-level phone.

My guess is the SE was cobbled together after Apple realized they underestimated demand from customers with two year old 5s phones that were ready to replace them but didn’t want the bigger 4.7” 6S. They threw them a one-time bone figuring they’ll move up in size next upgrade, so yeah, they don’t want to offer a new SE today. I bet they hated having to make that phone and they hate the praise it continues to receive even today. But it’s really dated now and I’m afraid a simple spec bump won’t do well.

 

[Mac 128]

I agree, what I see happening if Apple brings a new relatively small phone to market is a scaled down XR with something like a 5” to 5.3” screen. It will have nothing to do with the SE and I think that’s what most people clamoring for an “SE2” want, just a new phone option that’s smaller than XS. Not necessarily a budget entry-level phone.

My guess is the SE was cobbled together after Apple realized they underestimated demand from customers with two year old 5s phones that were ready to replace them but didn’t want the bigger 4.7” 6S. They threw them a one-time bone figuring they’ll move up in size next upgrade, so yeah, they don’t want to offer a new SE today. I bet they hated having to make that phone and they hate the praise it continues to receive even today. But it’s really dated now and I’m afraid a simple spec bump won’t do well.

It can't be that much larger than the SE though, since the 6-8 models truly aren't that much bigger now.

I have always suspected that Apple designed a 5" model using the iPhone 6 design, and decided not to put it into production. When they were caught with their pants down as you suggest, they went with the cheapest option possible. Given that they've come full circle with the iPad Pro in terms of case design, I wouldn't be surprised to see the SE retain it's current flat edged design, but with a glass back, and perhaps wireless charging to update the look. But the fact there's potentially an existing design out there which mirrors the look of the iPhone 8, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a brand new case, which makes the SE a little wider -- something I wouldn't hate (I always thought the 5 looked a little awkwardly tall and narrow) -- and most likely keeps Touch ID. Presumably, this would last another 3 years alongside the iPhone 8 until it depreciates as the low end options. Then, all bets are off in terms of new designs, depending on where technology goes ...

 

[decafjava]

Well, this certainly reminds me of the fractured fandom in Star Wars and Doctor Who. I mean there have always been those who like a particular Doctor, and there was a consensus as to how "bad" the SW prequels were at one time.

Despite the fact fans are supposed to like a particular franchise, lately the sniping or downright nastiness ever since the BBC dared to case a female in the role of the Doctor, or the fact the Star Wars sequels, especially the latest one (The Last Jedi) have brought out a lot of toxicity. Intelligent criticism and discussion has been lost.

It's even sillier for liking particular phones from the same company that largely work the same way and run the same OS.

This goes for everything, I don't care if people like something I don't like, nor do I care if they dislike what I like. Just respect my subjective opinion on something not that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[EssModelsRule]

It can't be that much larger than the SE though, since the 6-8 models truly aren't that much bigger now.

I have always suspected that Apple designed a 5" model using the iPhone 6 design, and decided not to put it into production. When they were caught with their pants down as you suggest, they went with the cheapest option possible. Given that they've come full circle with the iPad Pro in terms of case design, I wouldn't be surprised to see the SE retain it's current flat edged design, but with a glass back, and perhaps wireless charging to update the look. But the fact there's potentially an existing design out there which mirrors the look of the iPhone 8, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a brand new case, which makes the SE a little wider -- something I wouldn't hate (I always thought the 5 looked a little awkwardly tall and narrow) -- and most likely keeps Touch ID. Presumably, this would last another 3 years alongside the iPhone 8 until it depreciates as the low end options. Then, all bets are off in terms of new designs, depending on where technology goes ...

I see similarities with phones and cars - cars have gotten bigger in the last 10-20 years to the point that today’s compact car is as big as yesterday’s midsize car. I don’t think we’ll see another 4” phone; they’d rather sell you a watch. Today’s compact phone is the 8 which will be two years old this fall. If Apple chooses to offer a new compact (by today’s standard) phone someday, it’ll be much closer in size to an 8 than SE. 5” all screen design would be about that size.

Alternatively, if they want to reuse the SE formula today to offer a new budget phone they could raid the parts bin again and stuff an A12 in an iPhone 7 chassis, maybe strip out 3D Touch and sell it for $399. That would be a true SE2 for 2019, closely following the spirit and intent of the original SE.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think that’s what most people clamoring for an “SE2” want, just a new phone option that’s smaller than XS. Not necessarily a budget entry-level phone.

+10 - exactly what I want!

 

[s54]

I want an SE2 and I would buy one instantly.

However, since there were no reputable leaks, I doubt we will ever see an SE2 successor.

Having said that, I don’t really mind this. My 128 GB SE works like a charm. It’s super smooth, fast, and reliable. This phone is so incredibly underrated. It does everything I need.

Long story short, I went from 7 to 8 to X to 8 to SE. True story. I realized that I don’t like bigger phones and how slippery and overall awful they are to hold onto. The maneuverability aspect of the SE is second to none.

And to think that you can get all of this for $300 is simply mind-blowing. To me, it’s the best smartphone ever made and the price makes this spectacular phone even more spectacular.

I’m eagerly awaiting another wave of SE’s to appear on Apple’s clearance site. I missed the first three.

I want another SE as a backup, just in case something happens to the one I currently own. And at a mere $300, it’s a no-brainer.

I already disabled automatic updates. If Apple wants to pull the plug on SE updates, I have no problem with that. I’ll gladly stay on iOS 12 for years to come.

I use this phone for calls, texts, and photos. I don’t see how staying on iOS 12 for several years could possibly cause any issues.

 

[maxjohnson2]

My opinion is the iPhone 7 is the SE2 in practicality. It's small enough and is cheap now. In this day and age it's going to be hard to persuade Apple to make a phone smaller than the 7.

 

[s54]

My opinion is the iPhone 7 is the SE2 in practicality. It's small enough and is cheap now.

The iPhone 7 feels and looks like a heavy brick next to the SE.

 

[44267547]

However, since there were no reputable leaks, I doubt we will ever see an SE2 successor..

A lot of products don’t have leaks, the SE, AirPods, Apple Watch (Aside from the CAD renders), all of those were hardly leaked with any viable information. Point is, is an SE to likely in the future? Questionable. But don’t put it past Apple that they couldn’t release something without having to have something leaked on a rumored website that doesn’t always carry credibility with everything they report.

Also, Keep in mind, the SE was manufactured in India, it’s not from one of Apple major Foxconn plants in China, which is where the majority of leaks happen with iPhone components.

 

[Sam_S]

I really don't know why people state this as though it's fact. Apple's first attempt at a lower cost iPhone, the 5C, was released in 2013. In 2016, it was replaced with the SE. It's 2019 and entirely possible Apple will pop an upgraded processor in the existing chassis and call it a day (at the very least).

The last iPad mini was released earlier than the SE, and there are rumors circulating that it will be updated as well; same with the iPod touch. The mini, touch, and SE all serve as excellent low-cost gateways into Apple's ecosystem.

I also don't know what the point of telling people to focus on something else is. Dunno about you, but vaguely hoping a tech company releases an updated phone requires little focus. Maybe I'm just good at multitasking.

Its not even the cost point that attracts me, I love the form factor of the SE and the iPad Mini. Bigger isn't always better, especially when you can't use the product!

 

[arkitect]

A lot of products don’t have leaks, the SE, AirPods, Apple Watch (Aside from the CAD renders), all of those were hardly leaked with any viable information. Point is, is an SE to likely in the future? Questionable. But don’t put it past Apple that they couldn’t release something without having to have something leaked on a rumored website that doesn’t always carry credibility with everything they report.

Also, Keep in mind, the SE was manufactured in India, it’s not from one of Apple major Foxconn plants in China, which is where the majority of leaks happen with iPhone components.

Are you sure? My SE says on the back, lemme double check, yup, Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China.

 

[44267547]

Are you sure?

Positive. This was the Bangalore plant designated for the SE specifically in India. Although, I’m not sure if some other units were earlier-on manufactured elsewhere.

“Apple’s Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) partner Wistron (based from Taiwan) has started assembling and shipping the 4-inch iPhone SE model in India, according to this Bloomberg report. The devices are assembled by Wistron in its Peenya manufacturing plant in Bangalore, the report added.”

https://www.medianama.com/2017/06/223-apple-iphone-se-model-assembled-in-bangalore/

 

[arkitect]

Positive. This was the Bangalore plant designated for the SE specifically in India. Although, I’m not sure if some other units were earlier-on manufactured elsewhere.

“Apple’s Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) partner Wistron (based from Taiwan) has started assembling and shipping the 4-inch iPhone SE model in India, according to this Bloomberg report. The devices are assembled by Wistron in its Peenya manufacturing plant in Bangalore, the report added.”

https://www.medianama.com/2017/06/223-apple-iphone-se-model-assembled-in-bangalore/

So what is the Assembled in China on my iPhone SE all about then?
And not just mine.

 

[44267547]

So what is the Assembled in China on my iPhone SE all about then?

Based off the article quote/link below, this should explain your question. It appears the SE was manufactured in China at one point, more specifically, at Foxconn, and then transferred over to India (Bangalore) for secondary production in expansion. It was likely cheaper for Apple to manufacture the SE in India versus China, and create more commerce.

“The tech giant’s manufacturing partner Foxconn will begin assembling higher-end iPhones in India next year and invest $356 million in the country to expand its existing iPhone production plant, Reuters is reporting, citing people who claim to have knowledge of the plans. The investment will create up to 25,000 jobs in the country and reduce Foxconn’s (and Apple’s) manufacturing presence in China.”

http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2018/12/27/apple-iphone-production-india

 

[Porco]

I agree what Maflynn mentioned prior. Apple is completely unpredictable, and we don’t know what they will do. If the SE is re-introduced, it obviously won’t look anything like it does now, and Apple would move away from touch ID, a 4 inch display, 3.5 Jack and it would probably be somewhat larger, retain a different iPhone title perhaps, and include Face ID. But what really others want to see, is still something that is ‘Pocketable’, that was the whole point of emphasis for the SE for those who were interested in purchasing it, they didn’t care about the latest ‘tech specs’, they wanted something in a smaller form factor that wasn’t cumbersome and large as these other phones are today.

This eloquently describes why I bought a second SE not long ago. I have no idea if Apple will release an ‘SE 2’ of some description (I hope they do), but even if they do I would expect they would ditch the headphone jack, ditch TouchID, make the display bigger and with rounded corners, and maybe make the edges of the device rounded too (unless the iPad Pro marks a move back to squared edges more generally, I hope so).

And I don’t think that would be an SE to me. It would be something else. An iPhone Mini perhaps. Obviously it depends what one defines the SE as - I think most define it in the context of the smallish size, but from that point everyone’s ideas diverge a little.

To me it was always a Special Edition of the classic iPhone design that kind of ended with the iPhone 5S, before the move to phablets that are more cumbersome to use and don’t fit your pockets as easily, or at all in some circumstances. But because of the 5S form factor, it took on more than just the size - it brought things like the headphone jack socket and TouchID, and the flat, squared edges with it. They are all things I love about it.

So yeah, I want the choice of a similarly-sized phone when it comes time to replace my SE eventually. But I am not confident I will love the choice available even if Apple made a smallish iPhone again.

If I thought it likely Apple would release what was to me a genuine SE 2 - the same external form factor but the guts of the 8, for example, I would have likely waited. But I think the chances of that are small, even within the small chances of a new small iPhone by the looks of it.

Either way I’m good with my 128 Space Grey Essie for a few years now. They would have to totally satisfy me with any new iPhone for me to replace this for some time now. Ludicously expensive price tags for iPhones I like far less than my cheap SE certainly aren’t going to cut it.

 

[Mac 128]

So what is the Assembled in China on my iPhone SE all about then?
And not just mine.

One question to ask is how does Apple define “assembled”?

The iPhone contains parts manufactured all over the world. As long as all of those parts converge on time at an assembly point, it doesn’t really matter where they’re made. One reason China is a desirable location for iPhone factories is because most of the parts they need are being manufactured in China, and don’t have to be stored in great quantities — just-in-time manufacturing and delivery is Apples specialty.

So the India plant may well be making various parts, like the case for instance, and shipping those to China where they’re assembled by their well trained workers.

The other question to ask is just what parts of the SE is India producing? As I alluded to above, India may only be making certain parts of the SE like the aluminum case, and shipping those to China for assembly. But it’s more complicated than that. My understanding for Apple backing the India plant was so it could open Apple stores in India, for which a requirement was a certain percentage of the product being made in India. Since Apple needs a low-priced iPhone for the India market, the SE is a logical product. It’s unclear whether the entire thing needs to be made there or not, or whether Apple can ship parts made in India to China for assembly and reimport them for sale and still qualify for their waiver to open Apple stores.

It’s entirely possible Apple assembles entire SEs in India for the Indian market, and ships parts to China for others, where they have a much larger and trained workforce. Note that these SEs say Assembled in China, but also have an FCC notice, which is unique to US phones only. So parts of those phones could have easily originated in India, and been assembled and segregated for export in China.

Despite Apple having stopped selling the SE directly in the US, I’m not sure they aren’t still making it in India for other developing markets.

Another pet theory I have been floating since the 5c, might also explain what’s happening with the prospects for an SE2. I think one reason we got the 5c, was not so much about making a cheaper phone with higher margins, as it was freeing the infrastructure to physically manufacture milled aluminum iPhones. The 5 was the first such phone, and in order to continue making the 5s, they need an alternative to keep up with demand for the 5, so they switched to an easier to make case they could manufacture anywhere. Meanwhile, they built out custom factories which could meet the demand for the 5s, and forthcoming 6 and 6 plus, as well as the SE, which was even delayed following the 6s. Within two years Apple went from making one all-aluminum, to 6 (7 if they had to make the 5c out aluminum as well)!

So, that could explain the SE and SE2 as well. Apple only has so much manufacturing capacity, expanding to the India facility as a dedicated SE plant means they have to shut it down in order to convert it over to the SE2, or at least part of it, which would otherwise limit the volume they could produce. As a result they stop selling it through Apple in the US, knowing they can’t meet demand. The clearance then could be the result of overestimating supply prior to announcing the new models which saw people holding off purchases until September, but didn’t want to dump them on the market before the holidays, which is why they’re turning up now. And since they have the FCC markings for the US market, they can’t really ship them to another country.

 

[JPack]

Positive. This was the Bangalore plant designated for the SE specifically in India. Although, I’m not sure if some other units were earlier-on manufactured elsewhere.

“Apple’s Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) partner Wistron (based from Taiwan) has started assembling and shipping the 4-inch iPhone SE model in India, according to this Bloomberg report. The devices are assembled by Wistron in its Peenya manufacturing plant in Bangalore, the report added.”

https://www.medianama.com/2017/06/223-apple-iphone-se-model-assembled-in-bangalore/

The Assembled in India devices are intended for the Indian market only. I don't believe Made in India devices are available anywhere outside that country.

[doublepost=1549561852][/doublepost]

So the India plant may well be making various parts, like the case for instance, and shipping those to China where they’re assembled by their well trained workers.

The other question to ask is just what parts of the SE is India producing? As I alluded to above, India may only be making certain parts of the SE like the aluminum case, and shipping those to China for assembly. But it’s more complicated than that. My understanding for Apple backing the India plant was so it could open Apple stores in India, for which a requirement was a certain percentage of the product being made in India. Since Apple needs a low-priced iPhone for the India market, the SE is a logical product. It’s unclear whether the entire thing needs to be made there or not, or whether Apple can ship parts made in India to China for assembly and reimport them for sale and still qualify for their waiver to open Apple stores.

Based on news reports, the Made in India iPhones are built using knockdown kits from China. Think of them as Ikea packages being sent to India from China for assembly and testing.

 

[Mac 128]

The Assembled in India devices are intended for the Indian market only. I don't believe Made in India devices are available anywhere outside that country.

[doublepost=1549561852][/doublepost]

Based on news reports, the Made in India iPhones are built using knockdown kits from China. Think of them as Ikea packages being sent to India from China for assembly and testing.

Ah, good point -- there's that word "assembled" again. Makes perfect sense, though is that enough to pass government muster to sell them directly in India?

 

[JPack]

Ah, good point -- there's that word "assembled" again. Makes perfect sense, though is that enough to pass government muster to sell them directly in India?

Apple's official supplier list can hint at what's actually being made in India.

https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supplier-List.pdf

Based on that list, it appears to be power adapters (Flextronics, Salcomp) and product packaging (Shenzhen YUTO Packaging).

The Indian government knows there are no companies in the country with the capability to make any of the high tech components. This is a best attempt effort by Apple to bring jobs to that country and bypass the tax.

 

[Mac 128]

Apple's official supplier list can hint at what's actually being made in India.

https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supplier-List.pdf

Based on that list, it appears to be power adapters (Flextronics, Salcomp) and product packaging (Shenzhen YUTO Packaging).

The Indian government knows there are no companies in the country with the capability to make any of the high tech components. This is a best attempt effort by Apple to bring jobs to that country and bypass the tax.

When I first read about the Indian plant, I thought the idea was it was building a manufacturing plant for the chassis at a minimum. But it makes sense at a minimum investment to merely assemble them, which is a lot cheaper than building a milling plant, and importing raw materials, especially if there are no other parts being made there.