iPhone SE (2016) New SE2 Rumor?

[mikehalloran]

The SE is still being made in India but not for the US or European market. This may well lead to an SE2 or something like it.

I'd want one if it the camera didn't have pinch-zoom.

 

[JPack]

When I first read about the Indian plant, I thought the idea was it was building a manufacturing plant for the chassis at a minimum. But it makes sense at a minimum investment to merely assemble them, which is a lot cheaper than building a milling plant, and importing raw materials, especially if there are no other parts being made there.

India doesn't have the basic infrastructure to handling manufacturing at a reasonable level. A milling plant is, I would say, completely out of the question.

The Wistron plant is in Bangalore, India. It's supposed to be a tech hub. Based on data from the Bangalore Electricity Supply Company, the city experienced 1,200 incidents of unscheduled power outages in January 2019 alone. Since the start of February, there have already been 250 incidents.

https://www.bescom.org/upo/public.php

Compare that to Shenzhen, they have 16,000 buses and 20,000 taxis, all of which are electric. The infrastructure is there and can fully support manufacturing.

I think we will continue to see local assembly in India, but it will be limited to their domestic market for a long time.

 

[EssModelsRule]

India doesn't have the basic infrastructure to handling manufacturing at a reasonable level. A milling plant is, I would say, completely out of the question.

The Wistron plant is in Bangalore, India. It's supposed to be a tech hub. Based on data from the Bangalore Electricity Supply Company, the city experienced 1,200 incidents of unscheduled power outages in January 2019 alone. Since the start of February, there have already been 250 incidents.

https://www.bescom.org/upo/public.php

Compare that to Shenzhen, they have 16,000 buses and 20,000 taxis, all of which are electric. The infrastructure is there and can fully support manufacturing.

I think we will continue to see local assembly in India, but it will be limited to their domestic market for a long time.

Next level stuff, JPack. Great insight.

Is it possible that part of Apple’s long term strategy, in addition to import tax avoidance, is to also have smaller assembly plants throughout the world to make lower volume models for the region they’re located in? India, Wisconsin(US), etc. Just thinking maybe at some point Apple has to have multiple variations of iPhones to appease local tastes as they tend to vary across the world. The one phone for all approach has already broken after 5s, is three plus a bunch of older ones enough for the foreseeable future?

 

[mikehalloran]

I think we will continue to see local assembly in India, but it will be limited to their domestic market for a long time.

There's a hell of a lot of politics involved in this. You are certainly right that the infrastructure is not up to the demands that the government is placing on Apple.

Going back to the OP, the SE is not dead but that doesn't mean that some mystery low cost iPhone (SE2?) is real. Neither does it mean that it won't be.

With Apple, it never does.

 

[subjonas]

I agree that we’re running into problems defining the SE. People think differently in terms of what the defining (or most important) characteristic(s) is/are—the relative (to the rest of the lineup) device size, objective device size, relative screen size, objective screen size, relative cost, objective cost, flat edges, bezels, Touch ID, headphone jack, the name SE itself, others(?). So in order to stay on the same page, maybe better to not use the name SE, but talk more about specific characteristics.

 

[bpeeps]

The SE is not coming back. Time for the SE cult members to focus on something else.

They can't. It's all they have left.
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You know, it is perfectly possible to state that the iPhone SE "is not coming back" without additionally sneering at those who admire the form, size, portability and elegant aesthetics of this phone.

The SE group is a very VERY vocal minority who take any opportunity to bring the product up in unrelated posts on the main page and in the forums. There could be a main page post about emojis and someone will find a way to shoehorn in the SE. So it shouldn't be too surprising why people are tired of hearing about it and make exclamations like the one you replied to.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They can't. It's all they have left.
[doublepost=1549655081][/doublepost]
The SE group is a very VERY vocal minority who take any opportunity to bring the product up in unrelated posts on the main page and in the forums. There could be a main page post about emojis and someone will find a way to shoehorn in the SE. So it shouldn't be too surprising why people are tired of hearing about it and make exclamations like the one you replied to.

Well, it is both surprising and intolerant.

For my part, I only refer to the SE in sections of the forum where it is legitimately discussed - such as a thread on the SE.

What others choose to do is their own affair.

 

[s54]

They can't. It's all they have left.
[doublepost=1549655081][/doublepost]
The SE group is a very VERY vocal minority who take any opportunity to bring the product up in unrelated posts on the main page and in the forums. There could be a main page post about emojis and someone will find a way to shoehorn in the SE. So it shouldn't be too surprising why people are tired of hearing about it and make exclamations like the one you replied to.

Why do you care so much? Why take the initiative to call out a "vocal minority" in SE threads that you respond to? What's your deal exactly? lol

Chill out, pal. We like the phone. Deal with it.

 

[bpeeps]

Why do you care so much? Why take the initiative to call out a "vocal minority" in SE threads that you respond to? What's your deal exactly? lol

Chill out, pal. We like the phone. Deal with it.

And please, feel free to continue using it and liking it. It doesn't affect me in the slightest. I was just explaining why people emphatically state that there's no new SE coming. It's best to read replies in context.

 

[JPack]

Next level stuff, JPack. Great insight.

Is it possible that part of Apple’s long term strategy, in addition to import tax avoidance, is to also have smaller assembly plants throughout the world to make lower volume models for the region they’re located in? India, Wisconsin(US), etc. Just thinking maybe at some point Apple has to have multiple variations of iPhones to appease local tastes as they tend to vary across the world. The one phone for all approach has already broken after 5s, is three plus a bunch of older ones enough for the foreseeable future?

I suspect Apple will double down on the "Made in China" strategy and in fact, move more R&D resources there in an attempt to offset any increase in costs (tariffs). The reality is, the entire global electronic supply chain is there including R&D. Tim Cook, as a supply chain guy, will probably try to make the process even more streamlined.

Apple buys 50 business class seats every day. The #1 route is SFO-Shanghai. The #2 route is SFO-HK. The first route is almost guaranteed to carry R&D staff to Shanghai as there are no manufacturing facilities near Shanghai, only Apple R&D centers. Route #2 is probably to access Shenzhen (Foxconn). What this says to me is Apple is so entrenched in their current design/manufacture strategy, it's unlikely any U.S. tariffs will result in any change.

Apple is assembling in India because the government will not let Apple have a retail presence unless their products are made in India in some way. Unless other countries start imposing that kind of barrier, Apple will continue to develop and manufacture where it makes sense.

In terms of having different phones for different markets, I don't think Apple will do that because it goes against their core strategy. What Apple might try to do, is have a much longer tail end for their products. Manufacturing and selling iPhone X for $749 in India late 2019 while discontinuing it elsewhere in the world could work to help pick up sales.

 

[Le Big Mac]

I agree that we’re running into problems defining the SE. People think differently in terms of what the defining (or most important) characteristic(s) is/are—the relative (to the rest of the lineup) device size, objective device size, relative screen size, objective screen size, relative cost, objective cost, flat edges, bezels, Touch ID, headphone jack, the name SE itself, others(?). So in order to stay on the same page, maybe better to not use the name SE, but talk more about specific characteristics.

For me the #1 distinguishing characteristic is a form factor/size in line with the current SE and smaller than the Xs.

Honestly, I would love an "SE2" that is just like the Xs (or even Xr) but sized like the SE. A headphone jack would be gravy.

Call it an SE, and SE2, an Xs mini - I don't really care. That said, it's not terribly useful for someone to say "the SE isn't coming back" when they literally mean that Apple is not going to produce the A9 SE any more.

 

[44267547]

For me the #1 distinguishing characteristic is a form factor/size in line with the current SE and smaller than the Xs.

Honestly, I would love an "SE2" that is just like the Xs (or even Xr) but sized like the SE. A headphone jack would be gravy.

Call it an SE, and SE2, an Xs mini - I don't really care. That said, it's not terribly useful for someone to say "the SE isn't coming back" when they literally mean that Apple is not going to produce the A9 SE any more.

The only reason I’m saying that Apple won’t include the 3.5 mm Jack if they introduce an SE 2 to in the future, is because it would go against everything that Apple already had said, that it was antiquated and eventually had to be phased out. So I think by them including a 3.5 mm Jack for an iPhone SE 2, would be really contradictory to what they said, considering they’re not including it with their future iPhones.

 

[Mac 128]

For me the #1 distinguishing characteristic is a form factor/size in line with the current SE and smaller than the Xs.

Honestly, I would love an "SE2" that is just like the Xs (or even Xr) but sized like the SE. A headphone jack would be gravy.

Call it an SE, and SE2, an Xs mini - I don't really care. That said, it's not terribly useful for someone to say "the SE isn't coming back" when they literally mean that Apple is not going to produce the A9 SE any more.

I don’t think there will be a headphone jack, because there won’t be room for one, especially if they update it with a notched screen. Even without that, better, larger camera modules, any kind of haptic feedback, or waterproofing changes could push the jack out, and it wouldn’t take much. There’s every reason to keep a headphone jack on a low-cost phone, because like it or not, many of the folks riding public transportation every day, can’t afford the best iPhones, nor Bluetooth headphones — and they still plug in lower cost wired headphones. But Apple’s not going to design around it either.

 

[FunkyTang]

My guess is that the SE2 render would cost twice as much as a refurb 7. So most of the SE customers would say no thanks.

 

[44267547]

My guess is that the SE2 render would cost twice as much as a refurb 7. So most of the SE customers would say no thanks.

Either way, if Apple updates the SE in the future, undoubtedly it would be more expensive, especially if they use face ID, other included technology, etc. Really the goal of the original SE was two things, 1.) Price and 2.) 4” form factor. And I don’t think either one of those two things would be retained if they update the SE, I’m sure it would be more expensive, and slightly larger.

 

[eyesea]

To me, iPhone SE2 would be something that looks and feels like the first edition. They could add a color or two, but the current ones would suffice. On the inside, I would like it to contain as up-to-date ingredients as it is possible to fit into it. I am not looking for an entry-level or a mid-range phone. Sure it does not harm if it is cheap and falls into one of those categories, but the price is not the main issue with SE2.

$300? Great!
$1,200? Great!

Just put it into production already!

 

[s54]

My guess is that the SE2 render would cost twice as much as a refurb 7. So most of the SE customers would say no thanks.

That’s false. That’s only your assumption.

You do realize that the majority of people who want an updated SE care more about the size than the price, right?

Hardly anyone purchases the SE because they couldn’t drop another $150 on a refurb 7. And since the sale of a brand new SE has ended several times already, the factory-sealed ones were selling for the same price as the factory-sealed 7 on eBay.

To most SE owners, it’s all about the orgonomics and small size factor. If it also happens to be cheap, that’s an added bonus.

I don’t think anyone realistically expects Apple to update the SE and continue to sell it at the current price of $200-300.

People are not stupid. They know that an SE with upgraded internals would have to cost more.

Twice the price of a refurb 7 would put it somewhere in the $800-900 range.

No problem. Plenty of people would be willing to fork out that kind of money for a new SE, as long as it retained the 4” factor.

 

[Le Big Mac]

Twice the price of a refurb 7 would put it somewhere in the $800-900 range.

No problem. Plenty of people would be willing to fork out that kind of money for a new SE, as long as it retained the 4” factor.

+1. I'm not going in on an Xs or Xr because of size, not because it's expensive. Shrink it to SE size and I'm in, even if price is similar.

 

[Anthony T]

I'd like to see the SE brought back, but maybe just a slightly larger display than 4". I remember hearing rumors that the new SE would be 4.2". That would be ok with me.

 

[JPack]

That’s false. That’s only your assumption.

You do realize that the majority of people who want an updated SE care more about the size than the price, right?

Sales data suggests the majority of SE customers are buying it for the price.

Older iPhone models sell because of price. For example, the iPhone 7 outsells the 7 Plus. Move up the price ladder and the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus sell in nearly equal volumes. For the latest and most expensive, the XS Max outsells the XS.

There's really nothing to suggest that most SE buyers like the size, but rather price is major motivator.

 

[s54]

Sales data suggests the majority of SE customers are buying it for the price.

Older iPhone models sell because of price. For example, the iPhone 7 outsells the 7 Plus. Move up the price ladder and the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus sell in nearly equal volumes. For the latest and most expensive, the XS Max outsells the XS.

There's really nothing to suggest that most SE buyers like the size, but rather price is major motivator.

View attachment 822917

That analogy does nothing to show that most SE owners are buying it for the price because the iPhone SE was officially yanked from the Apple store nearly a half year ago. It only reappeared in the clearance section for a few days since and has sold out every time.

A brand new factory-sealed unlocked 128 GB SE is selling for roughly the same price as a brand new iPhone 7 on Ebay. Many of the people who opted for the SE (when it was unavailable for purchase through Apple) could just as well have bought the 7 for essentially the same price. But they didn't, which means they cared more about the form factor and not the price.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I'm on an SE purely because of form factor.

Price has absolutely nothing to do with why I love my SE.

 

[JPack]

That analogy does nothing to show that most SE owners are buying it for the price because the iPhone SE was officially yanked from the Apple store nearly a half year ago. It only reappeared in the clearance section for a few days since and has sold out every time.

A brand new factory-sealed unlocked 128 GB SE is selling for roughly the same price as a brand new iPhone 7 on Ebay. Many of the people who opted for the SE (when it was unavailable for purchase through Apple) could just as well have bought the 7 for essentially the same price. But they didn't, which means they cared more about the form factor and not the price.

Consider that if SE buyers were not price sensitive, Apple wouldn't need to place the SE in the clearance bin. Apple would sell it for the full $349 (or even $299) instead of marking it down to $249.

There's all sorts of craziness that happens on Ebay that isn't representative of the macro market. As of this moment, the iPhone SE 128GB with Verizon is still in stock for $299. The people that want to pay iPhone 7 prices for iPhone SE, it's probably a lack of information or lack of access rather than supply/demand based.

 

[s54]

I'm on an SE purely because of form factor.

Price has absolutely nothing to do with why I love my SE.

Same. That's why I sold my X and now own 3 iPhone SE's.
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Consider that if SE buyers were not price sensitive, Apple wouldn't need to place the SE in the clearance bin. Apple would sell it for the full $349 (or even $299) instead of marking it down to $249.

How's that any different from Apple selling both iPhone 7 and iPhone X in the clearance/refurb section?

The SE is an older phone than the 7. So, of course it's going to be priced lower. I can assure you that many SE buyers could have easily forked out another $100 on the iPhone 7 if it meant that the bigger form factor is so incredibly important. Not to mention the price difference on eBay between the two phones is virtually none.

They need to get rid of left-over stock. Nobody is denying the fact that iPhone SE is an old phone by now. That's why almost every SE owner wants an updated SE.

 

[JPack]

How's that any different from Apple selling both iPhone 7 and iPhone X in the clearance/refurb section?

There are no new sealed iPhone 7 or X in the clearance section. The iPhone 7 and X exist in the clearance section as refurbished items only. And even then, they have only a 15% discount.

The SE is an older phone than the 7. So, of course it's going to be priced lower. I can assure you that many SE buyers could have easily forked out another $100 on the iPhone 7 if it meant that the bigger form factor is so incredibly important. Not to mention the price difference on eBay between the two phones is virtually none.

They need to get rid of left-over stock. Nobody is denying the fact that iPhone SE is an old phone by now. That's why almost every SE owner wants an updated SE.

Sure, the SE should be priced lower as an old iPhone. But not 30% lower.

Historically, new items in the Apple Clearance section don't see any discounts at all.

For example, these MacBooks in the Clearance section are 2017 models. They were sold at full price. Unlike the SE, Apple didn't see the need to give them a $100 or $150 discount.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190102060352/https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/clearance
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I'm on an SE purely because of form factor.

Price has absolutely nothing to do with why I love my SE.

That's true for many people on this forum and we've heard that many times.

But from a macro perspective, everything Apple has done signaled their belief that SE buyers are price sensitive. Apple wouldn't discount the SE by 30% in the clearance bin if they thought most SE buyers would pay for the form factor.

The situation is similar to the iPhone 6s. Certainly, there are consumers who want the 3.5mm jack. But the vast majority of customers bought the 6s because of cost. Apple recognizes this or the price of iPhone 6s would be the same as iPhone 7.