iPhone SE (2016) New SE2 Rumor?

[s54]

1. iPhone 6s has been more expensive than the SE for bulk of the product life cycle.

2. You keep bringing up the Verizon example as if it represented global sales. Do you realize there are other bigger sales channels? Do you realize iPhone is sold in more than 70 countries? Verizon serves only one country.

1. That's not what you claimed before. Let me remind you that your original argument was that iPhone 6s was never the same price as the iPhone SE, which is false. For roughly 6 months now, they were exactly the same price.

2. It represents American pricing, which is what you keep quoting. I've been to plenty of countries where the sales of iPhones act in very much the same way they do over here.

P.S. You forgot about the iPhone 6, which is both cheaper and bigger than the SE. According to you, every SE owner should be jumping on the iPhone 6 bandwagon. After all, it's all about pricing. So, given that 6 is bigger, nobody should have bought the SE in the last year or so, since it was the more expensive phone.
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1. iPhone 6s has been more expensive than the SE for bulk of the product life cycle.

2. You keep bringing up the Verizon example as if it represented global sales. Do you realize there are other bigger sales channels? Do you realize iPhone is sold in more than 70 countries? Verizon serves only one country.
[doublepost=1550799994][/doublepost]

So show me those overseas examples, then. Where the 6s is the same price as SE.

Not every country relies on online retailers for sales. That's mostly just US. Once again, I take it that you haven't traveled much. Online shopping is huge here, but it's nowhere near as popular overseas.

I showed you how the iPhone 6s was the same price as the SE for nearly 6 months here in the US. Now you're going after global sales lol.

If anything, globally, more people like smaller size phones than we do here in the US. The rest of the world drives smaller cars on smaller roads. They wear size M clothes that translates to size S in the US. We Americans have an obsession with bigger being better. The standard TV size in the US is now like 55 or 65". In most other parts of the world, it's 40" or less.

 

[JPack]

1. That's not what you claimed before. Let me remind you that your original argument was that iPhone 6s was never the same price as the iPhone SE, which is false. For roughly 6 months now, they were exactly the same price.

Sure, if you want to consider EOL products and pricing as the norm.

2. It represents American pricing, which is what you keep quoting. I've been to plenty of countries where the sales of iPhones act in very much the same way they do over here.

Very few, if any, overseas carriers have the 6s priced the same the SE, today or 6 months ago.

P.S. You forgot about the iPhone 6, which is both cheaper and bigger than the SE. According to you, every SE owner should be jumping on the iPhone 6 bandwagon. After all, it's all about pricing. So, given that 6 is bigger, nobody should have bought the SE in the last year or so, since it was the more expensive phone.

Many consumers did buy the iPhone 6 up until it was no longer available to carriers.
[doublepost=1550801933][/doublepost]

Not every country relies on online retailers for sales. That's mostly just US. Once again, I take it that you haven't traveled much. Online shopping is huge here, but it's nowhere near as popular overseas.

I showed you how the iPhone 6s was the same price as the SE for nearly 6 months here in the US. Now you're going after global sales lol.

So? Show me where overseas carriers priced the 6s the same as the SE.

The SE is an iPhone intended for price sensitive and developing markets. Of course I'm talking globally. Apple is a global company with 2/3 of it's revenue from outside the U.S.

 

[s54]

Sure, if you want to consider EOL products and pricing as the norm.



Very few, if any, overseas carriers have the 6s priced the same the SE, today or 6 months ago.



Many consumers did buy the iPhone 6 up until it was no longer available to carriers.
[doublepost=1550801933][/doublepost]

So? Show me where overseas carriers priced the 6s the same as the SE.

The SE is an iPhone intended for price sensitive and developing markets. Of course I'm talking globally. Apple is a global company with 2/3 of it's revenue from outside the U.S.

Have you ever left the country? If so, where? Have you been to Asia? Where in Asia?

What part of overseas clientele not shopping online don't you understand? - You want me to provide links from websites and I've already explained that the majority of sales are direct sales in person. People don't shop electronically online like they do here.

As far as I'm concerned, the debate is closed. You claimed that SE owners buy the phone for the price. I proved otherwise by showing you that SE was in fact the same price as the 6s.

And if this wasn't enough, I made the analogy to the iPhone 6, which was (and still is) even less expensive than the SE. All three phones can still be bought in brand new factory-sealed condition. Both 6s and 6 examples prove that your analogy of price being the sole determining factor for sales of the SE is inaccurate.

So now that you have nothing more to go by, you begin shifting your argument to global sales, even though it appears that you don't know much about them. Have you bought iPhones from abroad before? - I have.

 

[JPack]

Have you ever left the country? If so, where? Have you been to Asia? Where in Asia?

What part of overseas clientele not shopping online don't you understand? - You want me to provide links from websites and I've already explained that the majority of sales are direct sales in person. People don't shop electronically online like they do here.

As far as I'm concerned, the debate is closed. You claimed that SE owners buy the phone for the price. I proved otherwise by showing you that SE was in fact the same price as the 6s.

And if this wasn't enough, I made the analogy to the iPhone 6, which was (and still is) even less expensive than the SE. All three phones can still be bought in brand new factory-sealed condition. Both 6s and 6 examples prove that your analogy of price being the sole determining factor for sales of the SE is inaccurate.

So now that you have nothing more to go by, you begin shifting your argument to global sales, even though it appears that you don't know much about them. Have you bought iPhones from abroad before? - I have.

Yes, of course you're right.

Western European countries like the UK, Germany, Denmark, Finland are all in the dark ages. Carriers like Vodafone, Virgin Mobile, Orange, O2, 3, British Telecom all sell their smartphones by horse and cart only.

Carriers in countries like China, South Korea, and Japan all use rickshaws to sell their phones. Revenue on Singles Day online in China exceeded $30 billion which is more than double that from Thanksgiving, Black Friday, and Cyber Monday combined.

I'm trying to figure out if you actually believe the drivel you type or pretend no one else in the world has flown on an airplane.

I've bought every iPhone since iPhone 7 from Hong Kong or China in-person in order to get Qualcomm or dual-SIM.

Here's my A2108 dual-SIM XR.

 

[s54]

Yes, of course you're right.

Western European countries like the UK, Germany, Denmark, Finland are all in the dark ages. Carriers like Vodafone, Virgin Mobile, Orange, O2, 3, British Telecom all sell their smartphones by horse and cart only.

Carriers in countries like China, South Korea, and Japan all use rickshaws to sell their phones. Revenue on Singles Day online in China exceeded $30 billion which is more than double that from Thanksgiving, Black Friday, and Cyber Monday combined.

I'm trying to figure out if you actually believe the drivel you type or pretend no one else in the world has flown on an airplane.

I've bought every iPhone since iPhone 7 from Hong Kong or China in-person in order to get Qualcomm or dual-SIM.

Here's my A2108 dual-SIM XR.

View attachment 823009

Wow, congratulations, you actually left the country. What exactly does that prove? - So the fact that you were able to buy the Chinese dual physical SIM XR suddenly makes you an authority on which country sells the most phones online and which one doesn't? - It's so convenient for you to list 8 of the richest countries on earth in your claim to support your view of online sales being huge everywhere in the world. I can tell you for a fact that's not the case. In most countries, people don't buy online because the shipping industry is nowhere near as advanced as it is in the countries you referenced.

Where do you pull this nonsense from? Your reasoning is just so awkward. You have a funny way of making half-ass assumptions about things and using extremes to "back up" your claims. Because China and USA are representative of the entire world.

For example, in nearly all SE Asian countries I've visited or lived at (including Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, and Indonesia), the majority of phones are not sold online. Why? - Because there's a phone kiosk, carrier, or retailer at nearly every corner - more than you'll ever see in the US. Even 7-11's and Family Marts sell them. Almost nobody in those countries buys a phone online. Assuming that you're staying at or close to a big city, there's an abundance of retailers to choose from virtually anywhere. It would be more hassle to buy online than it would be to walk down the street and pick one up in minutes.

And I have news for you: most countries on this planet are not rich. In those countries, owning a modern day smartphone is still a luxury that most people cannot afford. And they don't have the luxury of buying on credit with the same frequency that people in richer countries do, if at all.

The fact of the matter is that when Apple was still officially selling the iPhone SE and discontinued the 6, many merchants and carriers online still sold the iPhone 6, which was cheaper than the SE. Everybody knows that even after Apple officially discontinues a phone, carriers continue to sell that phone for quite a while (6 months now since the 6s was discontinued). If people were more concerned with price as opposed to the small size, then there should not have been a single SE sold during that time.

Don't pretend that a sudden change of topic from SE/6/6s pricing to global sales will make me ignore the fact that you were flat out wrong about your pricing vs size theory in regards to the SE.

 

[JPack]

Wow, congratulations, you actually left the country. What exactly does that prove? - So the fact that you were able to buy the Chinese dual physical SIM XR suddenly makes you an authority on which country sells the most phones online and which one doesn't? - It's so convenient for you to list 8 of the richest countries on earth in your claim to support your view of online sales being huge everywhere in the world. I can tell you for a fact that's not the case. In most countries, people don't buy online because the shipping industry is nowhere near as advanced as it is in the countries you referenced.

Where do you pull this nonsense from? Your reasoning is just so awkward. You have a funny way of making half-ass assumptions about things and using extremes to "back up" your claims. Because China and USA are representative of the entire world.

I have news for you: most countries on this planet are not rich. In those countries, owning a modern day smartphone is still a luxury that most people cannot afford. And they don't have the luxury of buying on credit with the same frequency that people in richer countries do, if at all.

The fact of the matter is that when Apple was still officially selling the iPhone SE and discontinued the 6, many merchants and carriers online still sold the iPhone 6, which was cheaper than the SE. Everybody knows that even after Apple officially discontinues a phone, carriers continue to sell that phone for quite a while (6 months now since the 6s was discontinued). If people were more concerned with price as opposed to the small size, then there should not have been a single SE sold during that time.

Don't pretend that a sudden change of topic from SE/6/6s pricing to global sales will make me ignore the fact that you were flat out wrong about your pricing vs size theory in regards to the SE.

That’s a lot of hand waving arguments to say you don’t any evidence besides your cherry picked example of Verizon selling iPhone 6s.

 

[s54]

That’s a lot of hand waving arguments to say you don’t any evidence besides your cherry picked example of Verizon selling iPhone 6s.

Verizon selling iPhone 6s for the same price as SE was a 10-second Google search. I didn't have to try hard because I vividly remember this was the case for months when I was looking into smartphones and decided to trade my 8 for the SE. Same goes for the T-Mobile example. It showed that your reasoning was off. Don't blame others for calling you out on your unsupported claims.

Funny that you keep ignoring the fact that the iPhone 6 was selling for less than the SE for nearly a full year. According to you, everybody who bought the SE during that time is an idiot. They could have bought a bigger iPhone brand new for less.

 

[JPack]

Verizon selling iPhone 6s for the same price as SE was a 10-second Google search. I didn't have to try hard because I vividly remember this was the case for months when I was looking into smartphones and decided to trade my 8 for the SE. Same goes for the T-Mobile example. It showed that your reasoning was off. Don't blame others for calling you out on your unsupported claims.

Funny that you keep ignoring the fact that the iPhone 6 was selling for less than the SE for nearly a full year. According to you, everybody who bought the SE during that time is an idiot. They could have bought a bigger iPhone brand new for less.

Neither T-Mobile nor Verizon are selling the iPhone SE.

You cherry picked examples which aren’t representative of the global market. Then you pretend iPhone SE has always been the same price as iPhone 6s. When asked for overseas examples of similar carrier discounts, you pretend only third world countries are overseas.

Do you always set up strawman arguments and knock them down? So what if iPhone 6 sold for less than SE? It’s a less expensive phone that fits within consumer budgets.

 

[s54]

Neither T-Mobile nor Verizon are selling the iPhone SE.

You cherry picked examples which aren’t representative of the global market. Then you pretend iPhone SE has always been the same price as iPhone 6s. When asked for overseas examples of similar carrier discounts, you pretend only third world countries are overseas.

Do you always set up strawman arguments and knock them down? So what if iPhone 6 sold for less than SE? It’s a less expensive phone that fits within consumer budgets.

What do you mean so what? - So there was not one, but two brand new iPhones being sold for the same price or less than the SE at the same time. Since you admit that the iPhone 6 was less expensive than the SE, that alone invalidates your claim that people bought the SE solely for the low price. If that were the case, they would have opted for the 6 instead, since, given the choice, they would end up with both (1) a bigger screen and (2) a cheaper phone. I'm praying that you can following simple arithmetic.

This was never about overseas examples. You desperately attempted to steer the conversation in that direction. You claimed that bigger iPhones were never sold for the same price at the same time. They were. Even less than the SE. It's a fact. And BTW, I didn't make any of the claims you're alluding to. You're being delusional. Get help.

Your argument of people buying the SE only because of the low price is flat out ridiculous, especially after the overwhelming number of posts made in recent months by SE owners about form factor being the determining one.

There's a new thread now about somebody going from the X to SE. I suggest you reply there and convince him that it's impossible for him to prefer a smaller phone over a bigger one LMAO

 

[JPack]

What do you mean so what? - So there was not one, but two brand new iPhones being sold for the same price or less than the SE at the same time. Since you admit that the iPhone 6 was less expensive than the SE, that alone invalidates your claim that people bought the SE solely for the low price. If that were the case, they would have opted for the 6 instead, since, given the choice, they would end up with both (1) a bigger screen and (2) a cheaper phone. I'm praying that you can following simple arithmetic.

This was never about overseas examples. You desperately attempted to steer the conversation in that direction. You claimed that bigger iPhones were never sold for the same price at the same time. They were. Even less than the SE. It's a fact. And BTW, I didn't make any of the claims you're alluding to. You're being delusional. Get help.

Your argument of people buying the SE only because of the low price is flat out ridiculous, especially after the overwhelming number of posts made in recent months by SE owners about form factor being the determining one.

There's a new thread now about somebody going from the X to SE. I suggest you reply there and convince him that it's impossible for him to prefer a smaller phone over a bigger one LMAO

You’re still trying to use cherry picked examples of EOL pricing from Verizon and T-Mobile. And pretending it applies globally to all markets where the SE and 6s was sold.

During the 24-36 month lifecycle of the SE and 6s, the two devices were $150 apart. EOL pricing from a couple carriers doesn’t change history.

So what’s your point about the iPhone 6? It wasn’t available in all channels where the SE was. In most cases, the iPhone 6 was sold as a locked device from prepaid carriers. Many consumers didn’t have a choice between SE and 6 within the same carrier.

You seem to have a habit of using cherry picked examples and generalizing them to fit your myopic view of the market.

 

[eyesea]

It is well possible, even probable, that the main reason why the SE was originally launched was to provide an affordable iPhone to bring in new customers. And obviously, with smaller screen it was cheaper to produce that kind of a device.

Now, things evolve. And so do customers' preferences. A sizeable (hard to quantify if it is 20% or 80%) proportion of the people who used the SE, really like the size of it and wish to stay using something like the SE. From the upped-end tier of iPhones there is also a (substantial) leakage of users who would want to get something smallish, something like an SE. It goes without saying that these people do not (mostly) want(!) to buy an SE anymore, but would wish to have the option to buy an updated version of it: the Apple iPhone SE2.

The form factor has, in my opinion, become more important than the pricing reasoning. Even if I am wrong, can someone (JPack?) explain to me in clear words: why is it not possible to introduce a new SE to the market with state-of-the-art or at least reasonable specs in the size and form of the first SE? If it gets pricey, what is the problem? Call it iPhone SE Premium if you like and put the price tag at 1,000$ and there would be scores of people rushing to buy it, even if you would not.

 

[s54]

You’re still trying to use cherry picked examples of EOL pricing from Verizon and T-Mobile. And pretending it applies globally to all markets where the SE and 6s was sold.

During the 24-36 month lifecycle of the SE and 6s, the two devices were $150 apart. EOL pricing from a couple carriers doesn’t change history.

So what’s your point about the iPhone 6? It wasn’t available in all channels where the SE was. In most cases, the iPhone 6 was sold as a locked device from prepaid carriers. Many consumers didn’t have a choice between SE and 6 within the same carrier.

You seem to have a habit of using cherry picked examples and generalizing them to fit your myopic view of the market.

Yes, indeed, cherry-picked examples, which in fact debunked your speculation that everyone who jumped on the SE bandwagon has done so solely due to price and not size.

Again, a ridiculous and childish claim on your part.
[doublepost=1550852493][/doublepost]

It is well possible, even probable, that the main reason why the SE was originally launched was to provide an affordable iPhone to bring in new customers. And obviously, with smaller screen it was cheaper to produce that kind of a device.

Now, things evolve. And so do customers' preferences. A sizeable (hard to quantify if it is 20% or 80%) proportion of the people who used the SE, really like the size of it and wish to stay using something like the SE. From the upped-end tier of iPhones there is also a (substantial) leakage of users who would want to get something smallish, something like an SE. It goes without saying that these people do not (mostly) want(!) to buy an SE anymore, but would wish to have the option to buy an updated version of it: the Apple iPhone SE2.

The form factor has, in my opinion, become more important than the pricing reasoning. Even if I am wrong, can someone (JPack?) explain to me in clear words: why is it not possible to introduce a new SE to the market with state-of-the-art or at least reasonable specs in the size and form of the first SE? If it gets pricey, what is the problem? Call it iPhone SE Premium if you like and put the price tag at 1,000$ and there would be scores of people rushing to buy it, even if you would not.

You’re asking too much. He won’t understand. Actually, at this point, I feel that he doesn’t want to understand.

 

[EM2013]

The form factor has, in my opinion, become more important than the pricing reasoning. Even if I am wrong, can someone (JPack?) explain to me in clear words: why is it not possible to introduce a new SE to the market with state-of-the-art or at least reasonable specs in the size and form of the first SE? If it gets pricey, what is the problem? Call it iPhone SE Premium if you like and put the price tag at 1,000$ and there would be scores of people rushing to buy it, even if you would not.

Fewer people are upgrading phones due to the costs, me included. I used to upgrade every year but will be holding on my max for as long as possible.

Even less people would buy a $1,000 device with a tiny screen. If there would be “scores of people rushing to buy it” Apple would’ve released a new se already.

 

[Mac 128]

It is well possible, even probable, that the main reason why the SE was originally launched was to provide an affordable iPhone to bring in new customers. And obviously, with smaller screen it was cheaper to produce that kind of a device.

Now, things evolve. And so do customers' preferences. A sizeable (hard to quantify if it is 20% or 80%) proportion of the people who used the SE, really like the size of it and wish to stay using something like the SE. From the upped-end tier of iPhones there is also a (substantial) leakage of users who would want to get something smallish, something like an SE. It goes without saying that these people do not (mostly) want(!) to buy an SE anymore, but would wish to have the option to buy an updated version of it: the Apple iPhone SE2.

The form factor has, in my opinion, become more important than the pricing reasoning. Even if I am wrong, can someone (JPack?) explain to me in clear words: why is it not possible to introduce a new SE to the market with state-of-the-art or at least reasonable specs in the size and form of the first SE? If it gets pricey, what is the problem? Call it iPhone SE Premium if you like and put the price tag at 1,000$ and there would be scores of people rushing to buy it, even if you would not.

Fewer people are upgrading phones due to the costs, me included. I used to upgrade every year but will be holding on my max for as long as possible.

Even less people would buy a $1,000 device with a tiny screen. If there would be “scores of people rushing to buy it” Apple would’ve released a new se already.

Here's the thing. It's specious to assume Apple isn't offering it because there isn't a demand for it. There are a lot more factors to why Apple does what it does, other than demand. For example: if Apple can sell a larger phone with a higher profit margin to someone who is willing to accept that over a preferred smaller phone with a lower profit margin, which path is Apple likely to take? I'm not suggesting your take isn't an absolute possibility, but so are many other scenarios, equally as plausible.

Here's the thing -- Apple probably didn't set out to make a larger phone in the 6, 6S, 7 & 8. They had to make the phone physically larger to accommodate the larger screen which they did want to make. Due to the technical limitations, the entire phone had to be considerably larger as well. But that's not necessarily the case now.

If you directly compare the iPhone 8 to the SE, you'll see the 8's display is about exactly the width of the iPhone case.

And the iPhone 6-8 are some of Apple's most successful phones, I believe outselling the Plus models, and collectively I think are outselling the all models. Regardless, if Apple continues to offer the 6-8, they could do a lot worse than offer the display area of the 8 in a more compact phone.

Now maybe somebody isn't going to spend $1,000 for a phone this size, but they already are paying $599 for a base model 8. If they could squeeze most of what's in the 8 into a slightly larger SE case with a full screen display, I bet they could get $599 for that too.

 

[EssModelsRule]

Here's the thing. It's specious to assume Apple isn't offering it because there isn't a demand for it. There are a lot more factors to why Apple does what it does, other than demand. For example: if Apple can sell a larger phone with a higher profit margin to someone who is willing to accept that over a preferred smaller phone with a lower profit margin, which path is Apple likely to take? I'm not suggesting your take isn't an absolute possibility, but so are many other scenarios, equally as plausible.

Here's the thing -- Apple probably didn't set out to make a larger phone in the 6, 6S, 7 & 8. They had to make the phone physically larger to accommodate the larger screen which they did want to make. Due to the technical limitations, the entire phone had to be considerably larger as well. But that's not necessarily the case now.

If you directly compare the iPhone 8 to the SE, you'll see the 8's display is about exactly the width of the iPhone case.

And the iPhone 6-8 are some of Apple's most successful phones, I believe outselling the Plus models, and collectively I think are outselling the all models. Regardless, if Apple continues to offer the 6-8, they could do a lot worse than offer the display area of the 8 in a more compact phone.

Now maybe somebody isn't going to spend $1,000 for a phone this size, but they already are paying $599 for a base model 8. If they could squeeze most of what's in the 8 into a slightly larger SE case with a full screen display, I bet they could get $599 for that too.

I paid $1,000 for my XS because it was the smallest flagship phone available today. Never had to look at XR, once the size specs were known, not interested. Had there been a smaller option than XS with current specs and full screen at any price I would have gone that route instead. To the haters, nobody wants a 4” screen today, but there’s demand for Apple to apply currently available technology to produce a phone close to the physical dimensions of the SE but with a full screen and we’re willing to pay for it. We’ve been living on 4.7” screens for years now so it wouldn’t even be a screen size reduction, just eliminate the bezels around that screen.

 

[44267547]

What I’m curious to watch and see will happen, is when the deletion of the 4.7 model fades away, then the consumers only are left with the option of a six inch-phone or higher. Obviously that won’t happen quite yet, because the iPhone 8 is still very much relevant in Apples lineup, but when those models are no longer being manufactured/sold by Apple, that leaves their lineup with generations of phones that are 5.8/6.1/6.5, unless Apple implements something in between to create more of a 5 inch phone hypothetically, but my point being, if that is the only entry-level option for 6.1 inch iPhone, then I think that says a lot of where Apple is not considering with anything smaller.

But then again, the iPad mini is expected to be resurrected this year, which maybe that says something about another smaller iPhone in the future as well, but just with no timeline yet.

 

[Mac 128]

I paid $1,000 for my XS because it was the smallest flagship phone available today. Never had to look at XR, once the size specs were known, not interested. Had there been a smaller option than XS with current specs and full screen at any price I would have gone that route instead. To the haters, nobody wants a 4” screen today, but there’s demand for Apple to apply currently available technology to produce a phone close to the physical dimensions of the SE but with a full screen and we’re willing to pay for it. We’ve been living on 4.7” screens for years now so it wouldn’t even be a screen size reduction, just eliminate the bezels around that screen.

Assuming Apple is not going to get rid of the 4.7" display-sized phone, it only makes sense to eventually update it to serve both a smaller form-factor, and a budget model phone, while adopting the same features and design style as the rest of the iPhone family. It's smaller, so it necessarily has fewer, and less expensive features, even if all other features are comparable to the high end model. Or, they take the same approach as the XR, and build it with budget features. In fact, that would make a lot of sense. The Xr fits size-wise between the Xs and Xs Max. So it makes sense that a proportional reduction in size to the Xr puts it below the size of the XS, which is already about the same size as the 8, giving Apple an entry level phone to depreciate over the next 3 years to fit in the same spot as the iPhone 7 does now.

Looking at the SE in relation to the 8, and Xs; an updated 4.7" display phone fits in nicely as a replacement for the 8, but also the SE. No headphone jack, or touch ID, but a better option for those who value smaller mobile devices, and one-handed use.

_____iPhone 8 (bottom), SE (top/overlay)___iPhone Xs (bottom), SE2/9 (top)

 

[kevink2]

Verizon selling iPhone 6s for the same price as SE was a 10-second Google search. I didn't have to try hard because I vividly remember this was the case for months when I was looking into smartphones and decided to trade my 8 for the SE. Same goes for the T-Mobile example. It showed that your reasoning was off. Don't blame others for calling you out on your unsupported claims.

Funny that you keep ignoring the fact that the iPhone 6 was selling for less than the SE for nearly a full year. According to you, everybody who bought the SE during that time is an idiot. They could have bought a bigger iPhone brand new for less.

When I saw a link about the SE being inexpensive again at Best Buy I didn't price compare the 6s directly from ATT Prepaid for the same price I may have just gone with the 6s. I was price sensitive in this case since it was purchased as a backup phone.

The SE probably gets all the love vs the 6s even when the same price since fairly comparable performance specs, but in a different size. The 6 is a lesser phone in other than screen size to the SE, and doesn't even have the important band 12 for T-Mobile.

The 7 was on sale recently on Cricket Wireless, but to get that price you had to port to Cricket. I could get the SE for my existing ATT Prepaid account.

 

[44267547]

Even less people would buy a $1,000 device with a tiny screen. If there would be “scores of people rushing to buy it” Apple would’ve released a new se already.

I would say this is a strong consensus, the one thing many try to do, is speculate why Apple discontinued the SE in the first place. I think there are a variety of reasons, but I think the main reason is because of lack of generated revenue. Capital is all about profit margin‘s, and if the SE isn’t generating the revenue, then they will cut it out of their lineup, which they did.

And I don’t mean to be dismissive of anyone’s excitement, but these ‘mini SE launches’ that they have had over the course the last five clearance sales, I think they are nothing more than liquidating stock from carriers that are being shipped back to Apple.

 

[EssModelsRule]

The SE, or rather a smaller iPhone, is the most polarizing topic on this site in my observation. Makes sense, as both sides have valid points for their position. There’s a passionate group that wants a new smaller phone and there are realists that look at the current offerings and have decided a small phone ain’t happening. I truly get and respect both viewpoints and feel there is no right or wrong.

I want a smaller phone and will pay flagship money for it. My guess is IF Apple makes a smaller phone, and I’m not saying they will, but my guess is they would expand the XR line to include a smaller ~5.3” version and the 6.1” model would then be branded a plus model. Of course it wouldn’t be the best selling model, but it would sell enough to justify its existence if Apple could adequately profit from it. $650 to $700 price point should help. Nobody on this site can say if that’s possible or not.

 

[JPack]

The form factor has, in my opinion, become more important than the pricing reasoning. Even if I am wrong, can someone (JPack?) explain to me in clear words: why is it not possible to introduce a new SE to the market with state-of-the-art or at least reasonable specs in the size and form of the first SE? If it gets pricey, what is the problem? Call it iPhone SE Premium if you like and put the price tag at 1,000$ and there would be scores of people rushing to buy it, even if you would not.

1. Small phones result in poor app engagement. Large phones result in much higher engagement. This has been measured in several ways by analytics companies in terms of time spend with apps. See below for example. Consumers can justify paying $1,099 for an iPhone XS Max because phablets are better to use for most people. Virtually nobody would pay $999 for an SE2 - see #2 below.

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2. Apple already tried the small phone experiment in 2016 and it failed. The iPhone SE failed in terms of market penetration. The data below shows the SE with 4.8% market share after 18 months. iPhone 5s users outnumber SE users by almost double. If even iPhone 5s users didn't bite, how can you expect Apple to launch an SE2? What's a normal adoption rate? Look at iPhone 7 - being on the market for 12 months, it already matches iPhone 6s market share.

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3. In 2017, Nielsen concluded that 18-24 year olds spend more time on smartphones than TV. In 2018, mobile ad spend was greater than TV. It's clear where the trend is heading. Apple is growing their services revenue as hardware is expected to fall. An SE2 doesn't encourage media consumption nor Apple's long term strategy.

 

[EssModelsRule]

1. Small phones result in poor app engagement. Large phones result in much higher engagement. This has been measured in several ways by analytics companies in terms of time spend with apps. See below for example. Consumers can justify paying $1,099 for an iPhone XS Max because phablets are better to use for most people. Virtually nobody would pay $999 for an SE2 - see #2 below.

View attachment 823319​

2. Apple already tried the small phone experiment in 2016 and it failed. The iPhone SE failed in terms of market penetration. The data below shows the SE with 4.8% market share after 18 months. iPhone 5s users outnumber SE users by almost double. If even iPhone 5s users didn't bite, how can you expect Apple to launch an SE2? What's a normal adoption rate? Look at iPhone 7 - being on the market for 12 months, it already matches iPhone 6s market share.

View attachment 823321​

3. In 2017, Nielsen concluded that 18-24 year olds spend more time on smartphones than TV. In 2018, mobile ad spend was greater than TV. It's clear where the trend is heading. Apple is growing their services revenue as hardware is expected to fall. An SE2 doesn't encourage media consumption nor Apple's long term strategy.

JPack, you’re missing the point. Your own example cites “phones with at least 5” screen”. A full screen iPhone with a SE-like footprint will yield a 5” screen for all the 18-24 year olds in the world to sit around and ignore each other while they consume content on their phones. The rest of us can slip that same svelte phone in our pockets and freely move about while living our lives. Win win.

 

[JPack]

JPack, you’re missing the point. Your own example cites “phones with at least 5” screen”. A full screen iPhone with a SE-like footprint will yield a 5” screen for all the 18-24 year olds in the world to sit around and ignore each other while they consume content on their phones. The rest of us can slip that same svelte phone in our pockets and freely move about while living our lives. Win win.

If there’s a positive correlation between app engagement and display size, why would Apple stop at the 5” mark? That example was taken from 2014 and consumers have moved beyond 5” displays. Apple doesn’t serve niche markets with a huge product stack. They focus on what most customers want. As CEO, that’s probably the most important lesson Steve Jobs taught Apple.

According to IHS, in 2015, the average LCD smartphone panel size was 5.1”. In 2019, it’s expected to be 5.5”. Apple already tried in 2016 and launched the SE which had a smaller than average smartphone display. It didn’t work out. Why would Apple try the same strategy again?

 

[Mac 128]

JPack, you’re missing the point. Your own example cites “phones with at least 5” screen”. A full screen iPhone with a SE-like footprint will yield a 5” screen for all the 18-24 year olds in the world to sit around and ignore each other while they consume content on their phones. The rest of us can slip that same svelte phone in our pockets and freely move about while living our lives. Win win.

You can’t argue with his specious reasoning. ;-)

My example above is 4.9” but close enough.

I also don’t know why we’re even discussing a $999 SE2. That’s a straw man that’s being hammered by some to make their specious points. They couldn’t squeeze all that $1000+ hardware into a 5” phone, which is one reason they’re necessarily getting bigger. The SE2 would be a variant of the XR which is hardly a $1000 phone, and it can easily hold the extra hardware.

Even without all the manufactured charts based on speculation, I think we can all agree that the market for smaller displays is much lower than the market for larger displays. That said, smaller phones cost less to make. So there’s a sweet spot here for Apple to address — replace the 4.7” sized display of the iPhone 6-8 with a similar sized display in a smaller less expensive case to create a new entry level phone which addresses two markets, or discontinue one of the most popular selling display sizes of all time, in favor of more expensive larger, phones. And I wouldn’t put that latter scenario past Apple. They have been on a disturbing trend of increasing prices and maximizing profits over more affordable product offerings and value, which the larger phones leverage in spade. But even Apple realizes they can’t ignore the bottom of the market.

The SE was already a 4 year old phone when Apple released it, but if nothing else it demonstrated that Apple realized it couldn’t just keep selling old phones on the low end, sacrificing user experience for a premium Apple price. And Apple is at the same spot again. The SE was getting long in the tooth (now 7), and so is the 6 and 6s (which are still being sold), and now the 7. So does it make more sense for Apple to continue offering 6 different models of the same old phone for progressively less to offset their diminishing performance, or to add a single design on the low end which like the SE uses parts from current phones to leverage bulk savings, and provide a better overall experience and keeping feature unity, while setting up a designated budget model to be depreciated in time to replace the 8, in both display size and price, when the time comes?

We’ll see.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Despite all the manufactured charts based on speculation, I think we can all agree that the market for smaller displays is much lower than the market for larger displays. That said, smaller phones cost less to make. So there’s a sweet spot here for Apple to address

Absolutely..
The market might be hard to even quantify as so many of us haven't upgraded to anything past the SE, simply because of the physical sizes of every single new model.

There simply has to be a market worth addressing in the "smaller" phone space, with whatever compromises that might entail. The entire phone market can't be always and only about huge physical devices moving forward.

I'll be really surprised if Apple, especially under SKU-Fest-Tim, doesn't have a new smaller "something", and probably this year at some point.

I expect a smaller XR device basically.
That's fine.

We have an XR in the house.
It seems fine - just gigantic, thick and heavy. ugh