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SchneiderMan

macrumors G3
Original poster
May 25, 2008
8,332
202
When you're dealing with such a small DOF, focus counts. If you're off just a little bit, chances are it'll be noticeable. When you're shooting wide-open, chances are that you won't nail the focus correctly that often.

And, if given the choice, why choose MF over AF? At least the AF-S 50mm f/1.4 lets you do both, if you just want to manually focus for kicks and autofocus when you want the shot.

The only problem is money for a Af-s 50mm lens its just to expensive that you can get a D90 body for its price. I came across this flicker pool with D40's using that lens
http://www.flickr.com/groups/729803@N22/pool/

Maybe there is a low cost Af-s lens other then this? thanks
 

LittleCanonKid

macrumors 6502
Oct 22, 2008
420
113
The only problem is money for a Af-s 50mm lens its just to expensive that you can get a D90 body for its price. I came across this flicker pool with D40's using that lens
http://www.flickr.com/groups/729803@N22/pool/

Maybe there is a low cost Af-s lens other then this? thanks
The lens runs around $440, which isn't exactly D90 pricing.

Look at Nikon's lens lineup and pick out lenses you'd eventually like to purchase down the road. If a good chunk of them don't AF on the D40/40x/60, then maybe it's time to upgrade to a body that can.

You can still use the lens you bought, but I think it's just money that could go toward either a lens that'll work better on your D40 or a body that'll AF on lenses you would like to use.
 

netdog

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2006
5,760
38
London
When you're dealing with such a small DOF, focus counts. If you're off just a little bit, chances are it'll be noticeable. When you're shooting wide-open, chances are that you won't nail the focus correctly that often.

And, if given the choice, why choose MF over AF? At least the AF-S 50mm f/1.4 lets you do both, if you just want to manually focus for kicks and autofocus when you want the shot.

Having recently ditched the world of DSLRs for a digital rangefinder, I realize how fat and lazy I had become with auto-everything, and it negatively impacted my photographs.

Manually focussing with a 50mm 1.8 is easy, even when the lens is wide open. I manually focus with a 75mm at f2 that is the equivalent of a 90mm lens on my camera, and while it was challenging at first, choosing your own focus point opens up a lot of possibilities that auto-focus can not offer. AF is not very smart. We are. We are also the creative partners in the photographic process, not our cameras. I have nothing against people using AF all the time, but be careful about advising people against manually focussing. It's not that hard.
 

SchneiderMan

macrumors G3
Original poster
May 25, 2008
8,332
202
The lens runs around $440, which isn't exactly D90 pricing.

Look at Nikon's lens lineup and pick out lenses you'd eventually like to purchase down the road. If a good chunk of them don't AF on the D40/40x/60, then maybe it's time to upgrade to a body that can.

You can still use the lens you bought, but I think it's just money that could go toward either a lens that'll work better on your D40 or a body that'll AF on lenses you would like to use.

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-AF-S-NI...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1233131662&sr=1-1
$966

That lens that i got will be great with the D90 body ill be getting in the future, in the meantime i dont mind using it in manuel focus, i use it alot with my other lenses when auto doesnt work out for me. thanks
 

leighonigar

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2007
908
1
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-AF-S-NI...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1233131662&sr=1-1
$966

That lens that i got will be great with the D90 body ill be getting in the future, in the meantime i dont mind using it in manuel focus, i use it alot with my other lenses when auto doesnt work out for me. thanks


I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun. I manually focus old primes on my S5, if I'm honest, it's more miss than hit especially when I have to 'think fast!' (partly as nikon lenses focus the opposite way to the sigma ones I normally use, and also because the focusing screen is dreadful for MF).

On the price of that lens, '$966' is a completely disreputable price. It's no more than $500 anywhere else, usually less. A simple Google demonstrates that.
 

jaseone

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2004
1,245
57
Houston, USA
That lens that i got will be great with the D90 body ill be getting in the future, in the meantime i dont mind using it in manuel focus, i use it alot with my other lenses when auto doesnt work out for me. thanks

That still doesn't explain how you expect the new lens to improve the example photo of the turtles you provided? I'm very curious as to your logic with that.
 

leighonigar

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2007
908
1
That still doesn't explain how you expect the new lens to improve the example photo of the turtles you provided? I'm very curious as to your logic with that.

Remember, the turtles were photographed at 175mm, I suspect, technically, the 50mm will deliver a worse photograph in similar circumstances. But 'whatevs'.
 

Apple Ink

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2008
1,918
0
The pictures you've taken are beautiful... no doubt! I'd require a CPR if any one could show me some better photos with an 18-55 non VR gen 1 kit... (and no.. I dont want retorts on this. please dont post your pics..)

Once again.. I'd recommend you please get your priorities correct! I'm not pointing particularly to a specific lens... just saying that a $1400 lens on a $400 body is actually much better than a $400 lens on a $1400 body!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tjasha/3225144456/meta/

This photo made the front page of Explore... something that only one person per probably a million can boast of.... it was taken on a D40 with a 50mm prime lens.....
 

jaseone

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2004
1,245
57
Houston, USA
The pictures you've taken are beautiful... no doubt! I'd require a CPR if any one could show me some better photos with an 18-55 non VR gen 1 kit... (and no.. I dont want retorts on this. please dont post your pics..)

Once again.. I'd recommend you please get your priorities correct! I'm not pointing particularly to a specific lens... just saying that a $1400 lens on a $400 body is actually much better than a $400 lens on a $1400 body!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tjasha/3225144456/meta/

This photo made the front page of Explore... something that only one person per probably a million can boast of.... it was taken on a D40 with a 50mm prime lens.....

Who and what was that in reply to? :confused:

This never should have been about what is better between upgrading a body and upgrading a lens but rather what the original poster isn't happy with in regards to his photos and nothing he has shown would be improved by either a new body or a new lens.
 

SchneiderMan

macrumors G3
Original poster
May 25, 2008
8,332
202
That still doesn't explain how you expect the new lens to improve the example photo of the turtles you provided? I'm very curious as to your logic with that.

Im just confused as hell
Would a 50mm F/1.4 Af-S be a better and more satisfying lens for all my
work?
Im calling to cancel my order for the lens lol
 

Apple Ink

macrumors 68000
Mar 7, 2008
1,918
0
The only problem is money for a Af-s 50mm lens its just to expensive that you can get a D90 body for its price. I came across this flicker pool with D40's using that lens
http://www.flickr.com/groups/729803@N22/pool/

Maybe there is a low cost Af-s lens other then this? thanks

Who and what was that in reply to? :confused:

This never should have been about what is better between upgrading a body and upgrading a lens but rather what the original poster isn't happy with in regards to his photos and nothing he has shown would be improved by either a new body or a new lens.

I believe you can easily interpret that the guy is still having a hard time absorbing the fact that in the World of DSLRs its the Lens thats more important and not the body! He's clearly thinking that spending the same amount of moolah on a lens as a body is an overkill and not worth....

What kind of improvements he want I dont know... seems like he needs to work on composition.... he's trying real hard to get there but its the composition that comes in b/w.....
In any case... the point arose of lens v/s body and as a beginner it was important that he be told with full clarity (which this thread severely lacks) that a lens is way more important than a body!

AF is very critical especially for you.... dont get AF on a lens and I'm positive you'll be chucking it out of your window in o time!

Why dont you do something... acquaint yourself with all the technical stuff like aperture and IS and focal length.... the question you ask above^ will be much better answered by you then....
 

jaseone

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2004
1,245
57
Houston, USA
Im just confused as hell
Would a 50mm F/1.4 Af-S be a better and more satisfying lens for all my
work?

With the one example you provided the answer is a resounding NO it won't be better and more satisfying for you, how is a 50mm prime lens going to help you with a photo that was taken at a focal length of 175mm?

You still haven't answered as to what exactly you would like to see improved in the turtles photo, myself and others have commented it is likely the depth of field making the background out of focus but you haven't replied to that at all?
 

SchneiderMan

macrumors G3
Original poster
May 25, 2008
8,332
202
I think the turtle shot was with my 55-200mm but thats just the lens i took it with at the time. I dont care to take a different shot prospective with a 50mm lens. I would like to take better focused shots and bokeh, i want a more clear and sharp photos with a new lens. I wasnt really happy with the quality of the photos, i dont know if its because i need a better lens.. But that what you guys are saying that i need a better lens on my d40.
Im also not talking spacificly about that turtle pic.
(ok canceled the 50mm non af-s for now haha)

Apple ink, you guys are against af so i might just pull the trigger and get that 50mm F/1.4 af-s or the 30mm F/1.4 hsm by sigma
 

jaseone

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2004
1,245
57
Houston, USA
My brain hurts...

I don't think you need a new body or a new lens but rather to spend some time learning to use what you have already. Stop reading Lens Lust forums & the like to learn terms like bokeh, ignore all the threads of people taking great photos with the dirty thirty, the nifty fifty etc. The majority of those people could take great photos regardless of the body + lens combination.

As I suggested before pick up a copy of Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson or any other good photography book or take a photography course or heck just read your camera's manual and above all just practice, practice, practice!

Then post pictures here you aren't happy with, stating why and then we can give you feedback on how to improve your photos, it may well end up being that we recommend a new lens but at this stage I think that would be bad advice.
 

Phrasikleia

macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2008
4,082
403
Over there------->
When you're dealing with such a small DOF, focus counts. If you're off just a little bit, chances are it'll be noticeable. When you're shooting wide-open, chances are that you won't nail the focus correctly that often.

And, if given the choice, why choose MF over AF? At least the AF-S 50mm f/1.4 lets you do both, if you just want to manually focus for kicks and autofocus when you want the shot.

Hmm. I actually find that I always get better accuracy with manual focus. If I really want to put the the focus in a very particular place, I switch over to manual, magnify 10x with Live View, and dial it right in. With AF and a really thin DOF, the slightest amount of camera shake can throw things off.
 

jaseone

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2004
1,245
57
Houston, USA
Hmm. I actually find that I always get better accuracy with manual focus. If I really want to put the the focus in a very particular place, I switch over to manual, zoom in 10x with Live View, and dial it right in. With AF and a really thin DOF, the slightest amount of camera shake can throw things off.

Oh now you've done it... Mentioned Live View that is! Now the Original Poster is going to want the D90 again! :D
 

aquajet

macrumors 68020
Feb 12, 2005
2,386
10
VA
I think the turtle shot was with my 55-200mm but thats just the lens i took it with at the time. I dont care to take a different shot prospective with a 50mm lens. I would like to take better focused shots and bokeh, i want a more clear and sharp photos with a new lens. I wasnt really happy with the quality of the photos, i dont know if its because i need a better lens.. But that what you guys are saying that i need a better lens on my d40.
Im also not talking spacificly about that turtle pic.
(ok canceled the 50mm non af-s for now haha)

Apple ink, you guys are against af so i might just pull the trigger and get that 50mm F/1.4 af-s or the 30mm F/1.4 hsm by sigma


All the information you need to start taking pictures that meet your expectations has already been briefly outlined for you in this thread. Please go back and re-read the sections of the thread that talk about aperture and depth of field.

Sorry for being so blunt, but you clearly do not know what you're doing when you pick up your camera and start taking pictures. Go read and study up on the basics. Somebody has already suggested a book to get you started. Your problem right now is that you do not have a firm grasp of the basics, and you are the only one to blame if the pictures don't meet your expectations because you do not yet know how to use your tools properly.
 

H2Ockey

macrumors regular
Aug 25, 2008
216
0
SchneiderMan,
Read this post by Jaseone I quoted below. Then do what it says. Next time you are thinking of purchasing a new lens or body read this post agian, then re-read some chapters of the book. Get an off camera flash, get a tripod and remot cord and keep practicing.
Post pictures for critique.
THEN
when the critique comes back with things like "Wow, great shot perfect composition and sharp focus, but I would have liked better isolation and bokeh."
THEN research a new lens and get one that suits your shooting style as far as focal length and zoom versus prime. A 1.4 50mm is a great lens but is it great for you? I don't own one and I won't unless I move to a full frame sensor because I don't like the Field of view. I prefer a 30 or 35mm instead. Just because EVERYONE EVERYWHERE loves the lens doesn't mean I'm going to go get it in hopes of magically producing better pictures. Because it's NOT FOR ME.
Understand exposure first. How does ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture relate, what is 'good light' versus flat light?
Then understand composition and framing
Then choose what types of photography you like
THEN choose the lens that suits the photography


My brain hurts...

I don't think you need a new body or a new lens but rather to spend some time learning to use what you have already. Stop reading Lens Lust forums & the like to learn terms like bokeh, ignore all the threads of people taking great photos with the dirty thirty, the nifty fifty etc. The majority of those people could take great photos regardless of the body + lens combination.

As I suggested before pick up a copy of Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson or any other good photography book or take a photography course or heck just read your camera's manual and above all just practice, practice, practice!

Then post pictures here you aren't happy with, stating why and then we can give you feedback on how to improve your photos, it may well end up being that we recommend a new lens but at this stage I think that would be bad advice.
 

ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,834
2,039
Redondo Beach, California
Wait i dont understand whats wrong with manually adjusting the focus?
I know people that got this lens and have a d40 and are happy with it.
Maybe im wrong :confused: i didnt want to spend $1000 on the af-s lens just because its af-s

Older manual focus cameras had viewfinders that made it easy to manually focus. New cameras seem to lack optical focus aids, like a split prism. Also you will find that focus is more critical if you have as f/1.4 lens as the depth of field is so shallow.

If your problem is light, then way not fix that. Add more light. Buy a flash. The SB600 is good but if you are really strapped for cash any light will work as long as it can be aimed up and or to the side. For daylight shots a cheap sheet of white cardboard can act as a refector and provide fill-in light. If you don't want to spend the $$ on a lens, lighting is cheaper.
 

leighonigar

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2007
908
1
Older manual focus cameras had viewfinders that made it easy to manually focus. New cameras seem to lack optical focus aids, like a split prism. Also you will find that focus is more critical if you have as f/1.4 lens as the depth of field is so shallow.

It's infuriating! I've just taken my 28mm off my S5 because it is just a bit too slow and a little too hit and miss with the small, bright but splitless finders that come in today's cameras. Perhaps I'll get a splitscreen for it one day.

In the mean time, best of luck to the OP! Learn, learn, learn!
 

wheelhot

macrumors 68020
Nov 23, 2007
2,084
269
Post pictures for critique.
THEN
when the critique comes back with things like "Wow, great shot perfect composition and sharp focus, but I would have liked better isolation and bokeh."
THEN research a new lens and get one that suits your shooting style as far as focal length and zoom versus prime. A 1.4 50mm is a great lens but is it great for you? I don't own one and I won't unless I move to a full frame sensor because I don't like the Field of view. I prefer a 30 or 35mm instead. Just because EVERYONE EVERYWHERE loves the lens doesn't mean I'm going to go get it in hopes of magically producing better pictures. Because it's NOT FOR ME.
Understand exposure first. How does ISO, Shutter Speed, and Aperture relate, what is 'good light' versus flat light?
Then understand composition and framing
Then choose what types of photography you like
THEN choose the lens that suits the photography
Wow, great tip, Im going to bookmark this and do some reading on the things you said :)
 

El Cabong

macrumors 6502a
Dec 1, 2008
620
339
I own the D40 and im not happy at all with its performance in night shoots and i think its just a fancy point and shoot quality..
Now im looking to get the D90 but i really dont want it to be like or in the range of the D40. Im thinking its just for noobs too like the D40? Am i wrong about this?
What i really want to know if its better then the D40/D60 group.
Thanks for your help on this.
And there is alot of noise in this low-light photo taken at 1250iso
ok i understand the focal ratio part now thanks
I didnt have a polarizer then but i now got one for $60 so i can also use it for long exposures in daylight.
I think the turtle shot was with my 55-200mm but thats just the lens i took it with at the time. I dont care to take a different shot prospective with a 50mm lens. I would like to take better focused shots and bokeh, i want a more clear and sharp photos with a new lens. I wasnt really happy with the quality of the photos, i dont know if its because i need a better lens.. But that what you guys are saying that i need a better lens on my d40.
Im also not talking spacificly about that turtle pic.
(ok canceled the 50mm non af-s for now haha)

This is insane.

I'm certain that the reason everyone suggested a large aperture lens was because you gave people the impression in your original post that you were having trouble doing nighttime photography with your kit lens(es). Yet, when people ask to see evidence of the troubles you're having, you first post two photos taken in broad daylight, and suddenly your issue with your equipment is some mixture of lens sharpness and DOF that's too broad?

First of all, believe it or not, your kit lenses are plenty sharp, at all focal lengths, even at their maximum apertures. Detailed reviews are available online that show this (dpreview, slrgear). If you're not getting sharp photos, especially when you're stopped down, unless you have defective equipment, your lens and/or camera is not to blame. Second, your sudden interest in bokeh is perplexing, since you never mentioned disliking the bokeh in your turtle shot. Are you wanting to do portraits, now? It's unclear what you're trying to do with your photography at all, other than experiment, and you don't need new equipment for that (unless you're doing long exposures at night without a tripod, in which case, get a tripod).

Finally, you seem to have a huge lack of knowledge about using cameras, an apparent inability to do minor internet research, and the misconception that buying more equipment will solve your problems. I mean, since your original post, you've shown that you don't fully understand focal length ("i dont know anything about 50mm lenses, basically the 50mm lens would be like my 18-55 when its in full zoom?"), aperture (as shown by the many people in the thread that have had to explain it), its relationship to depth of field (as you didn't understand why all your turtles weren't in focus), filters (polarizing filters aren't really for long exposures, and long exposures and daylight don't really mix), exposure, shutter speed (the blurriness of your Mac photo has more to do with the 1/8 exposure time than the D40's high ISO performance), and basic composition (as shown by your preference for the rabbit smack dab in the middle of the frame).

You also ordered (and thankfully canceled) a lens that wouldn't fully function on your camera, could only find a grossly overpriced alternative (the 50mm AF-S retails for around $500, not $900, and Amazon is not the only place to buy lenses), and thought that the "II" autofocus points on the D90 meant two (when 11 means eleven). All these things could have been rectified with a Google search.

New advice: don't buy anything, and learn how to better use your camera. You've spent only a year with it, and it shows in many ways. Your enthusiasm is great. With more experience, you'll be able to make a more informed choice in the future, and you'll save money now for a better lens/flash/camera then. Post things for critique every once in a while. As you're doing that, you should do the unglamorous work of reading up on photographic technique (not just on the internet) and looking at past work of good photographers (again, not just on the internet), as it will do more more for your own work than new equipment ever will. Once you learn more about photography and the sort that most appeals to you, you'll be able to pick the equipment that's best suited to your work. New equipment is useless if you don't already know how to use your current gear properly.

Especially in this economy.
 

SchneiderMan

macrumors G3
Original poster
May 25, 2008
8,332
202
Thanks for the tips,
What do you say about these photos? i didnt like the iphone pic because its not really in focus and its not sharp and clear.
I really appreciate all your help!
El cabong your right
i thought i can get better results with better lenses with what i know now.
 

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leighonigar

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2007
908
1
Thanks for the tips,
What do you say about these photos? i didnt like the iphone pic because its not really in focus and its not sharp and clear.
I really appreciate all your help!


The iphone is, I think, in focus. At least, one end of it is but again it's too dark and so the camera has had to up the ISO to 1250 and increase the amount of time that the shutter is open to 1/8 seconds. That's why it's blurred. Really for indoor things like that you either need a lot of light or some kind of steady mount, a tripod or tilted bookstack or something.

The airport shot is fine, I mean, compositionally I'm sure we could say all kinds of things, but it's ok, sharp enough despite being shot at f/4.2. I'm not sure if the poles want to be in the photo or out of it, what exactly you're doing etc.

The shot of the statue, um. Well, again, it's ok. I think you could have come up with a better angle, waited until the guy was out of the cup etc. Also, perhaps opened up the aperture to throw the background out of focus more. What do you want from this photo? Oh, the ground is tilting oddly.

Advice - think before you shoot. What do you want from the photograph? What do you want to be in focus? Is there enough light for what you're trying to do? How can you make the scene interesting? [and in the case of these, how much distracting cruft can you take out of the frame?]
 
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