Nintendo: Apple's Latest Prey

[Bernard SG]

Nice outdated chart. And where are the WP7 devices on there? It shows quite a skewed picture. Regardless, I never said I wanted them to slow down, I just don't want it to accelerate to the point that it begins to hurt the consumer (me). If you'll note, I have a 2 year old phone, so I can clearly control my "impulsive need to upgrade", I just want to know that when I upgrade I'll be getting something that will get good support for a 2 years at least.

Outdated chart, how?
And about the WP7 devices, they've been out for at most 1 year now, they'd better not be in that chart (but we could talk about Windows Mobile perhaps, I don't think the picture would be really flattering...) A better question would be "Where are the WP7 devices at all?"
Anyway, to the point: when has Apple ever stopped supporting a product for less than 2 years?

 

[boss.king]

Outdated chart, how?
And about the WP7 devices, they've been out for at most 1 year now, they'd better not be in that chart (but we could talk about Windows Mobile perhaps, I don't think the picture would be really flattering...) A better question would be "Where are the WP7 devices at all?"
Anyway, to the point: when has Apple ever stopped supporting a product for less than 2 years?

How have you come to the conclusion that I am only talking about Apple devices? If they increased the development/release speed of new tech, all consumers would suffer, not only Apples consumers. You seem to be looking for an argument based on things you've made up on your own.

 

[Bernard SG]

How have you come to the conclusion that I am only talking about Apple devices? If they increased the development/release speed of new tech, all consumers would suffer, not only Apples consumers. You seem to be looking for an argument based on things you've made up on your own.

Because Apple is the only serious example we can refer to as of now: Apple pushes something fairly new, technologically year after year; nonetheless, that didn't cause them to drop support of older products, as you stated yourself: not only do you still use your 3GS, but Apple actually still keeps on making and selling new ones.
*LTD* 's point was that the industry needs more companies like Apple that have a true commitment to delivering value to their customers, instead of ushering mediocrity into the market, for the sake of getting more Ad-views (Google) or selling more licenses (Microsoft).
The last decade has shown clearly that it's Apple's model that moves things forward, technologically, because the vertical integration forces the company into accountability for the entire user experience. There's a lot of new technology invented or discovered out there, all the time... but the tricky part is to translate it into something useful and usable for the market, and it's the part where the industry as a whole tends to suck big time.
The user-experience centric model is the only one that will make things advance, and it's meant to deliver consumers' satisfaction, not 'raping' like you suggested.

 

[boss.king]

Because Apple is the only serious example we can refer to as of now: Apple pushes something fairly new, technologically year after year; nonetheless, that didn't cause them to drop support of older products, as you stated yourself: not only do you still use your 3GS, but Apple actually still keeps on making and selling new ones.
*LTD* 's point was that the industry needs more companies like Apple that have a true commitment to delivering value to their customers, instead of ushering mediocrity into the market, for the sake of getting more Ad-views (Google) or selling more licenses (Microsoft).
The last decade has shown clearly that it's Apple's model that moves things forward, technologically, because the vertical integration forces the company into accountability for the entire user experience. There's a lot of new technology invented or discovered out there, all the time... but the tricky part is to translate it into something useful and usable for the market, and it's the part where the industry as a whole tends to suck big time.
The user-experience centric model is the only one that will make things advance, and it's meant to deliver consumers' satisfaction, not 'raping' like you suggested.

Nope. Apple has a commitment to getting money out of your wallet, not delivering value. I'd say MSFT delivers far more value, but that's just my opinion, just as you have yours. Apple is good at introducing new things, and then usually charging out the ass for it. It's up to you if that's value or not, to me it's not. Google is a bit worse as introducing new things, but they also cram in way more new things at a time, to some that is value. Or there's MS, who lately have been following a very slow upgrade cycle, but as a result they have a super responsive OS on cheaper hardware than competitors. Is that value? It's a subjective term.

And yes, a user-centric model would aim to deliver satisfaction, but that's not what an accelerated development cycle is. A user-centric cycle would improve things that people need, when they needed it. You can argue that Apple does that but I disagree. All companies do it to an extent but none stand out far and beyond the others, and they all do if for profit, not solely to improve user experience.

 

[Bernard SG]

I'd say MSFT delivers far more value, but that's just my opinion, just as you have yours.

Microsoft delivers value in a business environment. In the consumer sphere, not so much.

Apple is good at introducing new things, and then usually charging out the ass for it. It's up to you if that's value or not, to me it's not.

That's just bunk. Just look at how the competition is incapable of delivering a product truly challenging the iPad or the MBA at the same price-point.

 

[boss.king]

That's just bunk. Just look at how the competition is incapable of delivering a product truly challenging the iPad or the MBA at the same price-point.

I think competitors are on the way for both, but they won't really come into their own until Windows 8. Like I said, MS is taking a slow path but churning out quality products.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Nice outdated chart. And where are the WP7 devices on there? It shows quite a skewed picture. Regardless, I never said I wanted them to slow down, I just don't want it to accelerate to the point that it begins to hurt the consumer (me). If you'll note, I have a 2 year old phone, so I can clearly control my "impulsive need to upgrade", I just want to know that when I upgrade I'll be getting something that will get good support for a 2 years at least.

I would go with the chart is full of BS.

Lets break it down. Can the 3G do multitasking (Big part of the update for iOS4) nope
Nor can it do back grounds on the home screen.
Add to it voice controls.
List goes on.
Siri only on iPhone 4s and it is already pretty clear that is a BS blocking.

As for Android I would challanage you find me what major features were added in Gingerbread update?

 

[mrsir2009]

I see gaming going mostly 3 ways in the future:

hardcore PC gaming, iPad and X-Box

Um, isn't that what its like now?

 

[Tsuchiya]

Surely Nintendos current woes are based around the fact that:

-They expected the high to last forever. The Wii was a hit, did they just expect that to last forever once the gimmick wore off?

-They assumed that the 3DS will sell well just because the DS did. Ignore the fact that there are hardly any games worth playing on it (OOT is the obvious exception, but that was a remake and NOT available at release).

-The 3DS is essentially unfinished, as proved by the need for an additional analog stick for some games

-The 3DS's 3D effect can induce actual headaches.

-The 3DS release was botched, and it was released at an odd time of the year)

-The Yen is strong right now, thus meaning that global profits just aren't having the same impact back home.

I'm sorry but the iOS gaming just isn't going to replace traditional means yet.

 

[Bernard SG]

I think competitors are on the way for both, but they won't really come into their own until Windows 8. Like I said, MS is taking a slow path but churning out quality products.

I really struggle to see how Windows 8 is going to have any influence on OEM's capability to build hardware that challenge the excellence Apple achieved with the MacBook Air and the iPad...
And Microsoft's products are software except for the XBOX. Microsoft has little to do with the pricing to end-users.

 

[*LTD*]

I really struggle to see how Windows 8 is going to have any influence on OEM's capability to build hardware that challenge the excellence Apple achieved with the MacBook Air and the iPad...
And Microsoft's products are software except for the XBOX. Microsoft has little to do with the pricing to end-users.

"Quality Products" and horizontal business models are mutually exclusive, especially when existing in the same space as a competitor implementing vertical integration successfully.

This is why Windows + PCs can *never* match, by default, the User Experience Apple achieves. There's a reason Macs and virtually all Apple products score highest in consumer satisfaction report year after year, and sometimes by very wide margins. It's not by accident.

If MS wants to take things to the next level then a prerequisite will be to leave behind their horizontal business model and cease licensing Windows to OEMs. Do note that manufacturers are beginning to slowly trend toward making their own software - a somewhat questionable strategy in saturated markets, but they nonetheless are beginning to see the value in it. Apple has certainly proven its value.

 

[benthewraith]

If MS wants to take things to the next level then a prerequisite will be to leave behind their horizontal business model and cease licensing Windows to OEMs.

That will kill Microsoft.

 

[zap2]

Sorry, the quality of software titles for the DS/PSP are worlds above iPhone/Android outside of a few games, and the controls on DS/PSP are without a doubt better(minus perhaps Xperia Play)

The 3DS and PS Vita have too many exclusive games for mobile OS games to take them out. Those who have invested into portable gaming systems in the past are quite likely to keep going so(although I'm sure some will pick up mobile phone gaming as well)

That said, I can't see Nintendo going anywhere, we've all heard the Nintendo death cries, but their software is still the games to beat for my genres.

 

[0098386]

-They assumed that the 3DS will sell well just because the DS did. Ignore the fact that there are hardly any games worth playing on it (OOT is the obvious exception, but that was a remake and NOT available at release).

In its first 9 months the 3DS outsold the DS's first 9 months. The DS went on to become the best selling gaming device ever (or did the Wii do that? I forget now).

I do find the reactions quite extreme. Sony had a very troubled 2005-2006. The PSP and PS3 were initially flops, but the software and firmware improved and now they're excellent machines. I've played the Vita. It's mindblowing (and I'm not bothered by graphic performance).

Nintendo posted their first loss in what, 20-odd years? They also had a troublesome time for 2 whole generations (N64 and Gamecube), but rode out fine and gave us some of the best gaming experiences of those generations (Metroid Prime, Windwaker, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Mario Kart 64).

 

[Liquorpuki]

In its first 9 months the 3DS outsold the DS's first 9 months. The DS went on to become the best selling gaming device ever (or did the Wii do that? I forget now).

I do find the reactions quite extreme. Sony had a very troubled 2005-2006. The PSP and PS3 were initially flops, but the software and firmware improved and now they're excellent machines. I've played the Vita. It's mindblowing (and I'm not bothered by graphic performance).

Nintendo posted their first loss in what, 20-odd years? They also had a troublesome time for 2 whole generations (N64 and Gamecube), but rode out fine and gave us some of the best gaming experiences of those generations (Metroid Prime, Windwaker, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Mario Kart 64).

Next month, the 3DS Mario games come out. So does Skyward Sword, the Wii's sendoff game, which has been getting perfect reviews.

I own both Apple and Nintendo stock because they're both leaders in their respective markets. The same type of passion Jobs and Ive have for industrial design, Iwata and his buddies have for games. Meanwhile Apple doesn't do games - all they've done is put out a platform and let third parties flood it with crap. That crap used to be a ton of disposable 99 cent mini-games and has now morphed into a Freemium mess.

Anyone who thinks Apple is gonna kill Nintendo on the basis of these third parties should back it up and go buy Rovio and Zynga once those companies go public.

Then we can watch Rovio's stock drop when nobody wants to buy bird toys anymore and they've reskinned the same game for the 20th time. Same with Zynga once they realize they're just another player in a commoditized market of skinner boxes. And I'm also curious what EA is gonna do once they've degraded the value of their IP by converting it all to Freemium. And these are the types of games that are gonna make people forget about Mario, Zelda, and kill off handhelds and consoles. Yeah right

 

[anotonin]

Nintendo won't lose. This is Japan technology, people. It will bounce back.

Well something must be going on. I guess you could always substitute "Aliens" for iOS and Android in the chart below, if it makes you feel better.

http://blog.flurry.com/bid/60307/Apple-and-Google-Capture-U-S-Video-Game-Market-Share-in-2010

So how much is the percentage of Apple in the whole IOs & Android pie slice of 2010?

 

[*LTD*]

Nintendo won't lose. This is Japan technology, people. It will bounce back.



So how much is the percentage of Apple in the whole IOs & Android pie slice of 2010?

Well what do you think? The answer seems fairly obvious at this point. If you're Nintendo you probably don't want to know anyway.

Flurry will likely release results in 2012.

What does "this is Japan technology" mean?

 

[anotonin]

Well what do you think? The answer seems fairly obvious at this point. If you're Nintendo you probably don't want to know anyway.

Flurry will likely release results in 2012.

What does "this is Japan technology" mean?

Oh, Japan technology is what I term for all things innovative, invented, created, explored, expanded, imparted, managed by the Japanese people.

And you know, the discipline and attitude of the Japanese people when it comes work and life shines through them.

 

[*LTD*]

Oh, Japan technology is what I term for all things innovative, invented, created, explored, expanded, imparted, managed by the Japanese people.

And you know, the discipline and attitude of the Japanese people when it comes work and life shines through them.

I don't think a case can be made for Japanism anymore. They seem prone to being as adrift as anyone else in the current market.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...or-full-year/2011/11/02/gIQAlbsdeM_story.html

It's a matter of companies failing to re-invent their business in the wake of rapidly changing markets.

 

[roadbloc]

It's a matter of companies failing to re-invent their business in the wake of rapidly changing markets.

If anyone can re-invent a business, it's probably Nintendo. They're began making toilet rolls and playing cards in the mid 1800's if I'm not mistaken. They've survived a hell of a lot and changed markets a hell of a lot to get to today.

 

[anotonin]

I don't think a case can be made for Japanism anymore. They seem prone to being as adrift as anyone else in the current market.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...or-full-year/2011/11/02/gIQAlbsdeM_story.html

It's a matter of companies failing to re-invent their business in the wake of rapidly changing markets.

I still believe they will bounce back. Call if faith or something.

If anyone can re-invent a business, it's probably Nintendo. They're began making toilet rolls and playing cards in the mid 1800's if I'm not mistaken. They've survived a hell of a lot and changed markets a hell of a lot to get to today.

True. The Japanese are resilient people. They are adept in innovation and re-invention.

 

[decafjava]

I think there is room in the market for both Nintendo and the others.

Some people like dedicated portable platforms with lots of games, some casual, some more complex and - granting subjectivity in this judgement - lots of crap games too. Some prefer to carry one device that can do several things including games and here too it is possible to have a range of games. Many with smartphones only want the simple games which explains the sucess of angry birds. I do agree that the early pricing point Apple established is hurting the chance of getting lots more AAA titles, except from larger companies, to the App store but they are there.

This is similar to desktops vs. consoles somewhat. Many folks have desktops to do work/internet and might only play the odd solitaire or minesweeper, possibly preferring to game on a console. There are more complex games for desktops however IMO.

For myself, I have my most complex games (simulations) on my Win7 PC (if I ever get a Mac I would have win on bootcamp just for that) because no other platform-even consoles can match desktops for high end simulations like flight sims.

Gaming on my iphone was almost by accident. I found I enjoyed many of the better puzzle games and a few of the classic ports as well so am satisfied with no need for a dedicated portable console. Point and click style games like Ascendancy and Great Little Wargame work well on touchscreens (as well as they would on PSP and DS) and we have a few highend graphic games like Infinity Blade - one of my faves - that prove the hardware can run it. But it remains my secondary game device.

I have 2 flight sims on my iphone, f-sim Space Shuttle and Xplane glider. They both work well, look really nice, and work well on the platform because you don't need complex controls. The first is only landing the shuttle which is mainly just gliding the thing as the rest was automated-the second the only flyable motor plane is the Cessna and it is rather simplified. No fuel mixture or propellor control as you get on desktop sims, so I prefer to "fly" the gliders. I am curious to try one of the other xplane mobile titles but suspect it won't be as fun without my keyboard and Saitek joystick. All other flying games for portable or full-blown consoles are also dumbed down sadly.

So what am I saying, don't count out Nintendo, and don't count out the effect of competition from ios either.

 

[*LTD*]

The latest. It's now down to 36%.

 

[shingi70]

@LTD

Cool Avatar


On topic does one have to completely did for the other to win. Why can't both coexist. I use my phone for apps and productivity while My 3DS makes up most of my mobile gaming.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

The latest. It's now down to 36%.

Image

As pointed out in the one on the main page that means very little.

iOS/Android games for the most part are very different than DS and PSP games. You have a small and I mean very small handful of iOS/Android games that are nothing more than quick kill time games. DS and PSP games are very different.

The question is DS and PSP revenue increasing or staying the same per year. If they are it just says that portable game market is examplanding at a very fast rate. Time wasting games for when waiting in line or killing time while on hold on the phone (done that a few times) which you get a little fun but it is very different that having a 5 hour car ride or you just want to lay down on the couch for a few hours to play a game something iOS and Android games suck at doing.

Very different markets for the most part.