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nMP 12 Core gets a good clock cleaning from cMP
- Thread starter MacVidCards
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Never claimed it was, but I'm willing to guess others have seen similar results (at least in the video world that I'm talking about).
It's certainly better than the speculation I was replying to that was made simply to support an opinion.
^^^^The OPs post did exactly what he intended it to do. Inspire Discussion. Has he succeeded? - I Think SoLou
You are not alone in seeing this post in this manner. Within the "inspired discussion", statements and or questions arise that may be very helpful to a specific reader.
Or in my case I wanted to prove it is possible "play games" on a Mac!
Who said only PC's were gaming computers?
The way I see it is that your sample set is as good as the speculation you were replying to.
The way I see it is that your sample set is as good as the speculation you were replying to.
Well I'd say anecdotal evidence is at least better than no evidence at all.
Actually, anecdotal evidence can be extremely misleading, causing many false conclusions to be drawn.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing" - Alexander Pope, 1709.
Well ... if we eliminate the posting of:
-- All anecdotal evidence from user experience
-- All non-verifiable undocumented testing
-- All opinions not linkable to indisputable research and documentation
..... these "discussion" forums will get a lot shorter.
-- All anecdotal evidence from user experience
-- All non-verifiable undocumented testing
-- All opinions not linkable to indisputable research and documentation
..... these "discussion" forums will get a lot shorter.
Of course. How I should have phrased it was that, in this particular case, anecdotal evidence is probably better than none at all.
Person A makes a completely unsubstantiated claim. Person B offers personal observations counter to original claim. In this type forum that should only provoke others to chime in and agree or offer counter evidence based on their observations. Since we're not going to get the actual sales figures that would ultimately answer the question, anecdotal evidence and speculation are really the only tools we have in this rumor mill.
Well ... if we eliminate the posting of:
-- All anecdotal evidence from user experience
-- All non-verifiable undocumented testing
-- All opinions not linkable to indisputable research and documentation
..... these "discussion" forums will get a lot shorter.
Pretty much.
Well ... if we eliminate the posting of:
-- All anecdotal evidence from user experience
-- All non-verifiable undocumented testing
-- All opinions not linkable to indisputable research and documentation
..... these "discussion" forums will get a lot shorter.
Hahaha so true. In that case, let's keep things lively!
I wish we could drag everyone through the discussion posts from 2012 and 2013 about the nMP. During that time, these forums went from pleading for an upgrade (while lamenting that it would never happen), to blasting the nMP (after it was announced) for all of it's shortcomings, to the present situation when everyone blasts the OP for suggesting that equivalent performance 5 years apart is quite remarkable.
When I was 12 years old, I was on a football team that went 0-16 over two seasons. We didn't win a single game. Halfway through our second season, we played the best team in the province. We lost to them 21-7; the closest any team came to them all year. At the end of the game, we were ecstatic, jumping up and down, screaming, hooting and hollering. You'd think we won the Super Bowl. I'd say a tie in performance between machines 5 years separated counts as a 'clock cleaning'.
Oh, and one other thing. For all of those people bitter about the fact that MVC earns a few bucks selling flashed mac video cards, relax. For quite a few of us technological cave-men (compared to most of you here), this provides a very valuable service at what seems to me to be a reasonable price. Just because he figured out a way to make a living doing something that you find easy doesn't mean he's fleecing anyone.
Here's to another stimulating, anecdotal, hyperbolic discussion Man, I love this place.
When I was 12 years old, I was on a football team that went 0-16 over two seasons. We didn't win a single game. Halfway through our second season, we played the best team in the province. We lost to them 21-7; the closest any team came to them all year. At the end of the game, we were ecstatic, jumping up and down, screaming, hooting and hollering. You'd think we won the Super Bowl. I'd say a tie in performance between machines 5 years separated counts as a 'clock cleaning'.
Oh, and one other thing. For all of those people bitter about the fact that MVC earns a few bucks selling flashed mac video cards, relax. For quite a few of us technological cave-men (compared to most of you here), this provides a very valuable service at what seems to me to be a reasonable price. Just because he figured out a way to make a living doing something that you find easy doesn't mean he's fleecing anyone.
Here's to another stimulating, anecdotal, hyperbolic discussion
Man, I love this place.
English is not my native language so I might be a little off here, but as I understand it it's an expression that means something beats heavily something else.
I wish we could drag everyone through the discussion posts from 2012 and 2013 about the nMP. During that time, these forums went from pleading for an upgrade (while lamenting that it would never happen), to blasting the nMP (after it was announced) for all of it's shortcomings, to the present situation when everyone blasts the OP for suggesting that equivalent performance 5 years apart is quite remarkable.
When I was 12 years old, I was on a football team that went 0-16 over two seasons. We didn't win a single game. Halfway through our second season, we played the best team in the province. We lost to them 21-7; the closest any team came to them all year. At the end of the game, we were ecstatic, jumping up and down, screaming, hooting and hollering. You'd think we won the Super Bowl. I'd say a tie in performance between machines 5 years separated counts as a 'clock cleaning'.
Oh, and one other thing. For all of those people bitter about the fact that MVC earns a few bucks selling flashed mac video cards, relax. For quite a few of us technological cave-men (compared to most of you here), this provides a very valuable service at what seems to me to be a reasonable price. Just because he figured out a way to make a living doing something that you find easy doesn't mean he's fleecing anyone.
Here's to another stimulating, anecdotal, hyperbolic discussion
The only real complain in this thread concerning OP is about linking an external article that does not justify at all the provoking title of this thread. Business is one thing, twisting the truth for one's own benefit is another.
And, please, do bother for a couple of minutes and read the linked article and especially the bottom paragraphs. There is no 5 years apart on anything, since cMP is configured heavily with recent h/w, in a questionable fashion, and still not covering specific areas (like TB). Which it totally understandable.
To be fair, the hardware isn't really 5 years old, it was upgraded with modern parts. The 280X is about 10-20% faster than the D700 due to clock speeds but is virtually identical in most other ways (at least when running within OS X). I really would like to bring up those discussions again and point out that people were describing this exact scenario with regards to standard PCIe slots Vs proprietary slots. It is truly amazing that nearly all the posters who were previously howling that nobody ever wants to / needs to upgrade their video cards are totally silent in this thread.
What I'm really waiting for is the next generation of video cards which will arrive within the next year or so. That's really going to demonstrate why we like standardized slots. I think the awakening at that point will be so abrupt we might see a lot of people jumping the platform. Hopefully by that time someone's made linux less of a nightmare.
As already pointed out (but I'm doing it again), the only thing 4 years old (there were no 12 core Mac Pros in 2009), in the article are the CPU's. Everything else in the Mac Pro had been upgraded to modern parts (280x, PCIE Flash based storage, etc, etc). And as the article (if you had actually read it) pointed out, that 6 out of the 8 tests utilized the GPU's which actually would favor the 280x vs the underclocked D700.
I don't care that he makes a living selling a service that one can do on their own. Hey I use mechanics to fix my cars. I could do a lot of the stuff I pay them for myself, but I don't have the time. I do have a problem when someone makes outrageous statements that contradict the articles they link to. Sure the 2010 Mac Pro with upgraded GPU's beat out the 2013 Mac Pro, but it certainly wasn't a clock cleaning. He is trying to sell GPU's and hoping that the gullible few who didn't actually read the article will just blindly buy from him.
The 2009 won because it offers means to connect at truly high speed and uses a common standard to do so. So it can and has been kept current.
The nMP lost because it only offers connections at 1/4 the speed of the 2009. So it is already done being upgraded. Done. No amount of shiny TB docking stations are going to up the 1/4 speed limitation.
I'm sorry that more people don't understand the significance.
And, fair warning. If you are one of the people who is upset that 5 year old tech can trounce the newer "improved" tech, you REALLY don't want to follow this link. (Especially if a WoW or Diablo III or TombRaider fan)
http://barefeats.com/tube18.html
The nMP lost because it only offers connections at 1/4 the speed of the 2009. So it is already done being upgraded. Done. No amount of shiny TB docking stations are going to up the 1/4 speed limitation.
I'm sorry that more people don't understand the significance.
And, fair warning. If you are one of the people who is upset that 5 year old tech can trounce the newer "improved" tech, you REALLY don't want to follow this link. (Especially if a WoW or Diablo III or TombRaider fan)
http://barefeats.com/tube18.html
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I think we agree on most things, but your last point is where I disagree. I think that a reasonable, logical (not gullible) person could look at the potential 4,1/5,1 performance possibilities and conclude that this is still the best value proposition for them. Using myself (perhaps I'm more gullible than I believe
) as an example, I got a 5,1 12-core 2.4 stock back in early '13 for $2500. Thus far, I have put 48 GB RAM and a 7970 (from MVC) in it. I also bought a 30" ACD for $520, which is beautiful, I might add. I am trying to decide what type of SSD to put in it, but when I'm done, I will probably have put a total of $4,300 into the computer over the course of 18 months. For this, I think I have a pretty decent computer. Had I bought a nMP with a 27" apple display, I would have been out the same amount of money, and that's before I had to buy an external storage carriage (four bays works fine for my needs). Single core performance on the nMP beats mine by 50%, but multicore performance on mine is about 50% better.Look, I don't know MVC personally, but the amount of vitriol directed towards him on these forums is a bit over the top. I guess I'm one of the gullible ones, but at the end of the day, I was able to just stick a nice video card in my cMP, plug it in, turn it on, and not think about it since then (except to notice how much faster FCPX, Civ 5, iPhoto, and Starcraft run).
... which makes me wonder whether we need to revisit an old question in the forums. A significant schism seems to be developing between cMP and nMP users, with each clubbing the other with regularity here in the forums. Perhaps it is time to split the forums at this point.
And for the Hackintosh community (and all other OS) - the commodity standard is twice as many lanes as the Tube at twice the speed of the lanes in the 2009.
As many have said - the Tube is not a bad machine, but it's "form over function".
Apple should have also released a "mid-tower" system with dual E5-26xx v2 processors, at least 16 RAM slots, and 80 lanes of PCIe 3.0.
Of course, that would have created a marketing crisis in Cupertino - since it would be hard to put their over-used "Pro" label on a four-core system if you're also selling a 24-core system.
maybe nit picking some but it's form is more functional than any other desktop made so far (that i know of).
everything about it's shape and arrangement of components etc are there for a very particular reason.. it's form is function.
i get it that you want and/or think it should be a lot more power packed into a box but that doesn't mean "oh, they should of put pci slots and 2 sockets but they didn't-- therefore they've put more emphasis on form than function"
really, the only thing about it that's pizazzy/function_less/vanity/style is the polished outer finish.
But in the end - it is far less functional than many well-designed rectangular boxes (and I'll put my Dell T3610 in that camp).
No expansion, nearly everything proprietary, but pretty. That's putting form over function.
My T3610 is quiet, is expandable, and isn't forced by its form to have a bunch of proprietary cards stuck to a "thermal core" with all expansion on slow serial ports.
Can you put an expansion drive on top of the Tube? LOL - no. How functional is a cylinder in a world of rectangles?
that type of stuff is what i was trying say with "i get it that you want and/or think it should be..."
as in, i understand what you're saying.. you've said all the things enough times that i really do see your pov.
i'm saying something different though.. i'm talking about form and function and not xyzpc clock cleans nmp..
idk, it doesn't matter.. i can't say what i'm trying to say in a clear enough manner anyway.
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