nMP 12 Core gets a good clock cleaning from cMP

[slughead]

anyway, if you want a mac, and you want a badass mac and you're willing to spend a bit of cash-- what computer will you get?

and if you opt for a mac pro, have you made a bad decision? (not 'you' but the just for fun you)

You and I may actually agree on this. I used to be down on homeopathic medicine but you know what? If the placebo effect works (which it often does), who can say it's a bad investment for the customer. If they gave it away for free, everyone would realize it's just water--the higher the price, the more they feel they must be 'getting something that works.'

Likewise the nMP is a sleek-looking machine with a lot of power for sure. How much power and do you need it? Well who cares, as long as you get more value* out of it than the money you put in, it was a good investment.

nMP's will appear on the desks of many CEOs and lawyers who only use MS office and play farmville when nobody's looking. It's a unique, good-looking machine as well as a status-symbol. There's absolutely nothing wrong with purchasing it for these reasons and definitely is going to be a very significant part of the Mac Pro user base going forward, especially in comparison to the old Mac Pro.

* Value is subjective. While money can be compared to other money because it's the same (at least in the eyes of the same beholder), goods cannot be compared to other goods in a cardinal fashion, only ordinal (I want X more than Y).

 

[dmax35]

We loaned him the R9 280s

That's it.

He got other pieces from his own stuff or other vendors.

I don't write anything for him, have never met him in person.

Than it's a staged article to promote your business. Nice try!!!!

 

[flowrider]

You scratched his back. It's a shame that you use this forum to bolster your endeavors.

It's more of a shame that this forum allows it.

Than it's a staged article to promote your business. Nice try!!!!

I really don't know where either of you guys are coming from

Do you guys read reviews from magazines, or sites like Tom's Hardware or etc. They don't buy the hardware they test, it's loaned to them by the manufacturer's or distributor's. MVC is doing nothing more.

The only review folks (that I'm aware of) that actually buy the stuff they test is Consumer Reports, and that certainly is not apropos here.

Sounds like you folks have some kind of agenda

Lou

 

[antonis]

I don't know why people assume there's something shady between MVC and the reviewer. If they bother to read the entire article, it doesn't say anything really negative for nMP. A heavily-upgraded oMP with a very expensive latest and greatest h/w (and a questionable installation path as it is stated in the article) comes close and beats by a small margin the nMP in some comparisons, while - as it is also stated honestly in the article - falls behind some recent techs like TB, sound reduction, power consumption etc.

So, what's the strange here ? Article is right on spot. This thread's title is not. Why do people make assumptions based on the later instead of the former ?

 

[beaker7]

Why do people make assumptions based on the later instead of the former ?

Fitting the evidence to one's existing narrative.

 

[paulrbeers]

I really don't know where either of you guys are coming from

Do you guys read reviews from magazines, or sites like Tom's Hardware or etc. They don't buy the hardware they test, it's loaned to them by the manufacturer's or distributor's. MVC is doing nothing more.

The only review folks (that I'm aware of) that actually buy the stuff they test is Consumer Reports, and that certainly is not apropos here.

Sounds like you folks have some kind of agenda

Lou

While I have been very critical of MVC in this thread, I do agree that the criticism about the "relationship" between Barefeats and MVC is a bit ridiculous. I would probably have an issue with this, if Barefeats had come out with tests showing that the cMP crushed the nMP, but frankly less than 2% tells me that the testing was done above board.

Barefeats I have no issue with. I do take issue with MVC's title of this thread and his continual comments that are both unprofessional and unfounded.

 

[Prince134]

You scratched his back. It's a shame that you use this forum to bolster your endeavors.

It's more of a shame that this forum allows it.

I think it's not necessary to say it that way.

MacViCards has his contributions to the forum.
I personally have not bought anything from him, but I utilised his methods to make my Nvidia and AMD cards working with EFI (and you know what, it's only Mac Pro forum has the privilege). Although it's his business, he also shared his work publicly to the forum here and the netkas. For those who not wanting to flash card himself, he offers the service. I'd thought it's win win to the forum. Besides, forum needs some sparks and it polish our minds who joined the discussion, isn't it?

 

[Redneck1089]

Than it's a staged article to promote your business. Nice try!!!!

You're kidding right?

So in other words, by this logic, any car company, camera company, or computer company that lends a magazine their product to review is somehow "staging" the article.

MacVidCards said he lend the GPU's. So what? Everything else Barefeats either had himself or got from other sources.


MacVidCards, Cindori, and Netkas have done more for this forum and the user base of older generation Mac Pros than every other user on Mac Rumors combined. Stop trying to make MacVidCards out to be some sort of shameless scam artist.

 

[lemonade-maker]

What are you talking about??

I send him stuff for review. Just like other vendors.

If the performance is lacking, we lose.

When he is done testing, he returns whatever I send him.

It's how review sites work. Or did you think he buys all of that stuff?

He discloses that he gets loaners from vendors.

Please educate yourself.

Couldn't care less how a review site works. You do come on here to pimp your wares. I think it is shameful.

 

[MacVidCards]

Couldn't care less how a review site works. You do come on here to pimp your wares. I think it is shameful.

I'm sorry that you don't understand how review sites work.

Some research may prove beneficial and/or educational.

Vendors are allowed to post about their products here.

If you look carefully, I am not the only one.

There are a couple posting in a thread about PCIE SSDs. (The other half of equation which allows 2009 to beat 2013)

The capitalist system is founded on vendors competing upon the worth of a product. If my video cards weren't the fastest and best, I would vanish from sight.

If those guys with PCIE SSDs sold poorly working crap, they would go out of business as well. It is important that information and ideas flow freely.

Capitalist system requires the ability of information to be easily spread. If you are uncomfortable with that, you can make choices to limit your exposure to the offending speech.

 

[handsome pete]

Couldn't care less how a review site works. You do come on here to pimp your wares. I think it is shameful.

Yes, how dare he tarnish the virtue set forth by other members of a site dedicated to the wholesome endeavor of rumored business of a tech company.

Thank you for taking a moral stand. Keep doing the lord's work, sir.

 

[kfscoll]

Couldn't care less how a review site works. You do come on here to pimp your wares. I think it is shameful.

It's not the pimping that really annoys me. It's the constant nMP bashing that gets really, really old given the fact that there's a clear alterior motive behind it. All the pi$$ing and moaning in the world isn't going to bring back the oMP's form factor. Bitching about it at this point isn't doing anyone any good -- it's time to move on.

I just think MVC is going to have to eventually own up to the fact that no matter how many times he points out the nMP's faults, whether real or imagined, his current business model of providing and supporting upgraded/modded PC graphics cards for the oMP isn't sustainable. The pool of oMPs in the wild is shrinking and without native support for new technologies like Thunderbolt, USB 3, newer processors, 802.11ac, and so on, oMP owners will move on. One can argue the merits of these new technologies until one is blue in the face, but the fact remains that the oMP is yesterday's news. Continuing to believe that the installed customer base of oMP owners will be a viable revenue source into the future is a recipe for disaster. Within the next few years I'd wager that the majority of those computers will be in the trash heap.

I get that MVC is unhappy about the nMP as it relates to his business, but he's ground that axe down to a nub and the simple fact is that the oMP isn't coming back. It just comes across as silly bellyaching at this point -- better to use that energy to point his business in a new direction with better growth potential.

 

[flowrider]

Couldn't care less how a review site works. I think it is shameful.

Review sites and magazines (all magazines that review stuff) Computers including computer accessories, Photographic equipment, TVs, Hi-Fi, Software, I could go on and on, get the items they review on loan from those promoting their products. If you've ever read any of those types of reviews and if you've ever bought anything based on one of those reviews, than according to you, you have acted shamefully.

I have made decisions based on reviews made by reviewers I trust. If a manufacturer or VAR makes a quality product that he wants to publicize to folks who use the type of product he's selling and if the product reviews well, how is anybody hurt when it's loaned to an impartial party for review and comparison?

In my mind it helps us all.

And, as has been stated, MVC is one of the good guys who has made serious contributions to this forum.

If you don't understand that and your mind is closed, and if you prefer to live in a vacuum, so be it. Maybe this is not the best place for you. I believe this site is for the freely sharing of ideas so that we all may both help others and learn from others. I know that's why I'm here.

Lou

 

[flowrider]

It's not the pimping that really annoys me. It's the constant nMP bashing that gets really, really old given the fact that there's a clear alterior motive behind it. All the pi$$ing and moaning in the world isn't going to bring back the oMP's form factor. Bitching about it at this point isn't doing anyone any good -- it's time to move on.

I happen to agree with you - But NOT the ulterior motive part!

My post from earlier in the thread:

This Post is very well written and very well thought out. The oMP can be made to run at competitive speeds with the nMP - TODAY. TOMORROW - Not So Much!

But, the reason I bought my 5,1 (after the nMP was announced) was, and still is, all about expandability and upgradability. But, those two advantages will erode with the passing of time due to technology changes.

I get that MVC is unhappy about the nMP as it relates to his business, but he's ground that axe down to a nub and the simple fact is that the oMP isn't coming back. It just comes across as silly bellyaching at this point -- better to use that energy to point his business in a new direction with better growth potential.

MVC has many pans in the fire, and selling Mac Video Cards to us, certainly is not his main source of income. If it was, he'd starve. You know, he knows, and I know that over time that business will erode. But, again, NOT TODAY. If he wasn't around performing his service, and telling others who are savvy enough to understand, who else would be doing it?

His being here, is an asset to all of us. If you don't understand that, I really don't know what else to say. But, speaking for myself, I'm glad he's here, and willing to put up with the BS he gets here.

Lou

 

[kfscoll]

If he wasn't around performing his service, and telling others who are savvy enough to understand, who else would be doing it?

His being here, is an asset to all of us. If you don't understand that, I really don't know what else to say. But, speaking for myself, I'm glad he's here, and willing to put up with the BS he gets here.

Lou

I agree that MVC provides a valuable service. And I definitely agree that the community is better with him than without him. I "understand" all that, yet I still think the point I'm trying to make is valid. The ONLY beef I have is with his constant assault on the nMP. Hey, he's free to say what he wants, but I think by now we all get his opinion of the machine. At the beginning, the negativity was expected and reasonable. But railing on and on about it at this point serves no further purpose (i.e. the nMP is the new reality; the oMP's ship has sailed) and comes across as childish and petulant and, IMHO, undermines his standing as a trusted service provider.

Taken another way, what's he gain by constantly bashing the nMP? nMP owners aren't his potential customers, and oMP owners likely already know of his services and understand the value of what they have. The only thing his arguments against the nMP do at this point is scare off potential customers by painting him as petty. When one reads his comments about the nMP, then learns of his video card business, one reasonably concludes that an alterior motive is involved, and, right or wrong, that conclusion undermines his arguments. So what's the point?

I certainly know that my impression of him has changed since I first joined the forum -- his endless crusade against the nMP has really turned me off, especially as the discussion has devolved into posturing and name-calling. As a business owner, I think he'd be more concerned with his perceived reputation than with continuing the senseless battle pitting the oMP against the nMP.

 

[MacVidCards]

I agree that MVC provides a valuable service. And I definitely agree that the community is better with him than without him. I "understand" all that, yet I still think the point I'm trying to make is valid. The ONLY beef I have is with his constant assault on the nMP. Hey, he's free to say what he wants, but I think by now we all get his opinion of the machine. At the beginning, the negativity was expected and reasonable. But railing on and on about it at this point serves no further purpose (i.e. the nMP is the new reality; the oMP's ship has sailed) and comes across as childish and petulant and, IMHO, undermines his standing as a trusted service provider.

Taken another way, what's he gain by constantly bashing the nMP? nMP owners aren't his potential customers, and oMP owners likely already know of his services and understand the value of what they have. The only thing his arguments against the nMP do at this point is scare off potential customers by painting him as petty. When one reads his comments about the nMP, then learns of his video card business, one reasonably concludes that an alterior motive is involved, and, right or wrong, that conclusion undermines his arguments. So what's the point?

I certainly know that my impression of him has changed since I first joined the forum -- his endless crusade against the nMP has really turned me off, especially as the discussion has devolved into posturing and name-calling. As a business owner, I think he'd be more concerned with his perceived reputation that with continuing the senseless battle pitting the oMP against the nMP.

I am sorry the truth is so upsetting.

Apple has sold you all down the stream for quickie profits over value.

nMP is a disposable machine.

You are meant to dumpster it in 3-5 years.

If you are fine with that, great.

I feel the need to point out that it is a far less valuable machine in terms of future proofing.

A 1,1 Mac Pro can run a 4K display at 60HZ.

How many other Macs can do that? (Answer, almost NONE)

And the reason is....PCIE slots.

Accepting reality doesn't mean I stop pointing out the truth.

Look at this thread, lots of people FURIOUS that cMP is FASTER then maxed out nMP. Why is that? PCIE slots let it use latest stuff while nMP already languishing with 2011 GPU, etc.

Look at the anger, and all over the truth. People claiming that bare feats is lying, I guarantee he isn't. There is another guy claiming that he has Dual 7970s in his 2009 and is able to match nMP speeds in FCPx, why isn't everyone over there calling him a liar too?

The truth remains the truth, whether people like it or not. nMP for $10K is a total ripoff. There's the truth.

 

[kfscoll]

I am sorry the truth is so upsetting.

Apple has sold you all down the stream for quickie profits over value.

nMP is a disposable machine.

You are meant to dumpster it in 3-5 years.

If you are fine with that, great.

I feel the need to point out that it is a far less valuable machine in terms of future proofing.

A 1,1 Mac Pro can run a 4K display at 60HZ.

How many other Macs can do that? (Answer, almost NONE)

And the reason is....PCIE slots.

Accepting reality doesn't mean I stop pointing out the truth.

Look at this thread, lots of people FURIOUS that cMP is FASTER then maxed out nMP. Why is that? PCIE slots let it use latest stuff while nMP already languishing with 2011 GPU, etc.

Look at the anger, and all over the truth. People claiming that bare feats is lying, I guarantee he isn't. There is another guy claiming that he has Dual 7970s in his 2009 and is able to match nMP speeds in FCPx, why isn't everyone over there calling him a liar too?

The truth remains the truth, whether people like it or not. nMP for $10K is a total ripoff. There's the truth.

First, I'm not the least bit upset. I love my nMP.

Second, I'm not arguing that the PCIe slots provide more GPU expandability in the oMP than the nMP will (presumably) ever have -- that is, until PCIe 2.0 or those 2009-era CPUs become the bottleneck. However, in 3 to 5 years that oMP you'd have me buy today will be ready for the dumpster just as much as my nMP -- if not more. And how, exactly, is the R9 280X that you provided to Bare Feats any more modern a GPU than the D700 in the nMP? It seems to me they're both based on a 2011 architecture.

In any event, I think your crusade of truth-telling has far outlived its usefulness. I tried to provide a lucid, logical, calm argument as why it might be a good idea for you to tone down your rhetoric. And you reply with hyperbole and rambling claims that Apple has "sold [us] down the stream for quickie profits over value." Seriously? What do you gain by attacking nMP owners? It certainly can't be business recommendations! Even the title of this thread is pure exaggeration (as I'm sure you're aware)! What's the point of all of this if not to rally the oMP troops and antagonize the nMP owners? What does all of this "truth-telling" gain for you?

Take a step back, seriously, and look at your recent posts on this subject. Your arguments against the nMP are no longer providing anyone any value and they just serve to make you look silly and bitter. Is that the impression you want as a business owner?

We get it. Really. You like the oMP better. Okay. Do yourself a favor and move on.

 

[Redneck1089]

Couldn't care less how a review site works. You do come on here to pimp your wares. I think it is shameful.

What are you, a gangster?

He has a right to some profit. He has helped countless people on this forum. I'm not selling anything Mac Pro related at all, and I can assure you I'm just as pissed, if not more so than MacVidCards, about the new Mac Pro form factor and exponential price increase.

I see these tests done and I laugh at all the people on the trash can band-wagon.

 

[kfscoll]

exponential price increase

Exponential price increase? Really? Please explain.

 

[ClassObject]

What are you, a gangster?

He has a right to some profit. He has helped countless people on this forum. I'm not selling anything Mac Pro related at all, and I can assure you I'm just as pissed, if not more so than MacVidCards, about the new Mac Pro form factor and exponential price increase.

I see these tests done and I laugh at all the people on the trash can band-wagon.

Yeah, I'm a gangster.

I don't disagree that he has a right to profit. I love the profit I get. I think using this forum to promote your product is bush league. There are other, better ways to market your products and talents.

 

[OS6-OSX]

Well, when I “attack” the nMP I am attacking Apple and the machine not the owners. When the nMP was trumpeted out it was obviously a smoke and mirrors Ad approach. No comparison in real time to another machine, PC or oMP. Put the nMP’s A$$ on the line!
The two guy’s that ran 1 R3D trk with 18efx were too caught up that it was actually playing. They stated it was all done without a R3D rocket card. Instead of 18 efx the next move was to play 4 trks of R3D 4K. If it would not play then the combination of the flash drive/FCPX should be looked into. What drive speed would be necessary to play 4 trks of R3D 4K on an nMP? If they had to use TB for an attempt, which way should they approach it? Place a R3D Rocket card in a PCIe box via TB? Raid for speeds greater than the internal drive? If they wanted to play 5K footage without the R3DX card, what approach should be taken?
Being that the R3D Rocket is $4,750 and the R3DX is $6,750 the video could have been more informative. Show how to play 4 trks of R3D 4K or 5K footage using an nMP.
Put the nMP’s A$$ on the line! If it gets embarrassed so be it. Rethink/work the configuration and post again showing how playing the footage is now possible!
Put the nMP’s A$$ on the line!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-myFXiEh2Q

 

[dmax35]

Sounds like you folks have some kind of agenda

So does the creator of this post.

 

[paulrbeers]

Take a step back, seriously, and look at your recent posts on this subject. Your arguments against the nMP are no longer providing anyone any value and they just serve to make you look silly and bitter. Is that the impression you want as a business owner?

My thoughts exactly.

Backround:
I run a one-man (i.e. Myself) IT firm that works with small to medium size businesses to get their cloud-based web apps off the ground. I find developers to do the work, hosting sites to host their pages, etc. etc.... I make a decent "2nd income" off of it. This is used for my "play" money and stocking my retirement funds.

What is my point? I assume that MVC uses his GPU business much the same way I do my little IT firm. My family won't starve if it goes under, but we certainly wouldn't have as much fun (tighten the belt so to speak). I certainly wouldn't go up to possible clients and present myself the way MVC does. If I did, I wouldn't get any business. His condescending, immature, argumentative, and exaggerated comments is not a way to present yourself to possible clients. I don't care that he uses these forums to push his wares. Whatever. I just feel sorry for him, that he doesn't see how he is alienating many possible clients.

EDIT: Didn't MVC have a hissy fit and leave macrumors awhile back, because he didn't like these sorts of comments. I am going to bet his business took a hit since this is his main advertising stream and that is why he is back...

 

[paulrbeers]

Look at this thread, lots of people FURIOUS that cMP is FASTER then maxed out nMP.

Really? I haven't seen a single person be FURIOUS that a cMP is faster (by all of 1.9%) than a maxed out nMP.... What posts in this thread state that (other than yours)? Again, just another example of you exaggerating.

 

[mcnallym]

Personally the thread title is marketing spin worthy of apple.

I am not sure exactly what I could get done in the time difference in ANY of those tests whilst waiting for the second place unit to complete. The nMP is hardly getting its clock cleaned here.

Whilst it shows that a heavily upgraded Mac Pro that cost MORE then the nMP can certainly outperform the nMP even the article questions whether it is worth it.

With the nMP you are left with a machine that has fully warranty and support from Apple. ( this can be pretty important to some people )
With the upated cMP then you are on your own, or the internet community. ( when at home this is fine, when at work I am a user and I get the IT people here to do everything with my laptop if it needs working on / has fault )

I also struggle with the Thunderbolt hate as well.

The 4,1 and 5,1 Mac Pro used the X58/5520 chipset which is where the PCI-Express comes in as opposed to the CPU in the nMP.

Now as I understand it then the PCI-Express in the 4,1 5,1 is as follows

PCI-E x16
PCI-E x16
PCI-E x4
PCI-E x4

If you take the two PCI-E x16 slots out for the GPU's ( to avoid using the xGPU expander ) then this leaves you with the two PCI-E x4 slots, which if I have read the previous threads correctly on Macrumors correctly share the 4 remaining x4 PCI-E lanes between them making the total of 36 lanes that the Chipset supports.

Isn't this PCI-E x4 2.0 the same as what Thunderbolt connects through, however instead of 2 of them sharing the x4 lanes we get with the cMP We also get 3 of these rather then 2. So you aren't really losing anything compared to the oMP.

Yes you need to go external but it isn't the end of the world, plenty of users will already be using external devices already.

Apple have made choices and are betting that software developers will start to develop for OpenCL to use the second GPU, and so far developers do seem to be doing so.

Yes I use an upgraded Mac Pro 5,1. I couldn't justify to myself spending the money on the nMP when an upgraded 5,1 would do. I am also still on Copper based broadband, rather then Fibre. It is fast enough for what I need.