nMP 2015: where is it?

[milo]

so what.. they're way too expensive for the expected performance improvements..

The same can be said, arguably to a larger degree, for the nMP.

the vast majority of the time i'm sitting at a computer, i need a fast single core plus a few extras which can handle other tasks while not bogging down the main threads.

More confirmation that you're not in the target market for MP. Which makes sense since you're not even using one.

why not? what do I use my computers for?

What do you mean, why not? Didn't you just explain why you don't need a workstation class machine?

 

[flat five]

What do you mean, why not? Didn't you just explain why you don't need a workstation class machine?

well my (desktop) computer generally works twice as much i work at it.. it needs to do things while i'm not there.. the imac isn't too good for doing max power number crunching for long (or even short) periods of time whereas the macpro is designed for that type of stuff.

----------

More confirmation that you're not in the target market for MP. Which makes sense since you're not even using one.

and the target market is who, exactly?
why type of work do you think the mac pro is suited for?

 

[milo]

.. the imac isn't too good for doing max power number crunching for long (or even short) periods of time whereas the macpro is designed for that type of stuff.

But you aren't doing that type of stuff, right? Hard to tell what point you're trying to make.

and the target market is who, exactly?
why type of work do you think the mac pro is suited for?

Users who have software that benefits from more cores, lots of GPU power, and lots of memory. You have made it clear that your needs don't include those things.

 

[flat five]

But you aren't doing that type of stuff, right? Hard to tell what point you're trying to make.

the point is you're reading what you want to read..
then going on to determine which type of computers are best for my uses when you don't even know my uses.

Users who have software that benefits from more cores, lots of GPU power, and lots of memory. You have made it clear that your needs don't include those things.

can you quote me making it clear that my needs don't include those things?
i'm not sure where the miscommunication is happening

 

[milo]

which type of computers are best for my uses when you don't even know my uses.

You have been describing your own uses and needs. Maybe you should go back and read your own posts again?

can you quote me making it clear that my needs don't include those things?
i'm not sure where the miscommunication is happening

Sure.

i don't have software to take advantage of the dual gpus right now..

if i wait a couple of years then my software which would be able to use 12 cores

the vast majority of the time i'm sitting at a computer, i need a fast single core plus a few extras which can handle other tasks while not bogging down the main threads.

i'm not going to pay 2x money for a computer to be twice as fast when i'm not even sitting there working..

nothing about my workflow would change if i doubled the speed of multicore operations..

more cores is a waste of money for me because nothing changes.

All those comments are different ways of saying you don't need a MP.


But hey, go ahead and keep insisting that you're happy with the iMac but your needs are only met by the MP.

 

[MacProCard]

Users who have software that benefits from more cores, lots of GPU power, and lots of memory. You have made it clear that your needs don't include those things.

Like what kind of software? Who and what do you think it's best for Milo?
Show you the P& L statement so you can justify the cost for us a as well.

 

[beaker7]

Like what kind of software? Who and what do you think it's best for Milo?

Here are the apps that I use frequently that run substantially faster on my workstation compared to my 8c D700 nMP.

Maxwell Render
V-Ray
Octane
Nuke Studio
Resolve
Realflow
RedCine-X

 

[MacProCard]

Here are the apps that I use frequently that run substantially faster on my workstation compared to my 8c D700 nMP.

Maxwell Render
V-Ray
Octane
Nuke Studio
Resolve
Realflow
RedCine-X

So I have to ask... Are you mad your mac won't run it faster than your workstation? Did you buy an 8C D700 nMP and think it would be much faster for your software than the workstation?

 

[beaker7]

So I have to ask... Are you mad your mac won't run it faster than your workstation? Did you buy an 8C D700 nMP and think it would be much faster for your software than the workstation?

Mad? No of course not. It's a transitional machine as we migrate to Windows.

Take up as little space as possible and still provide a usable experience in OSX for the occasional mac-only app.

 

[MacProCard]

Mad? No of course not. It's a transitional machine as we migrate to Windows.

Take up as little space as possible and still provide a usable experience in OSX for the occasional mac-only app.

That's a sweet transitional box/ occasional mac-only app machine. Better watch it. Some here might say you wasted your money.

I understand migrating to PC. PC has always been the best option for powerhouse computing.

 

[flat five]

All those comments are different ways of saying you don't need a MP.

i barely do need one. somewhere around the 30th most important thing i do on a project is produce renderings.. rendering definitely isn't the hardest or most creative part of a project nor are they finished product (finish product is an actual construction of design).. unfortunately, those renderings are quite demanding of computational power and the imac just doesn't seem built to run maxed out all night.. there should be a mac pro sitting there humming away doing it's thing while i'm not worrying about if it's still going to be operational in the morning.

so do i need a mac pro? probably- if i'm going to continue doing renderings of a design on my own computers.. i suppose i could extend the life of an imac by using renderfarms.. or i guess i'd rather just outsource the whole rendering bit.. maybe beaker wants some side work?

 

[ManuelGomes]

Man, if I knew this was going to heat up this bad I wouldn't have started it.
I want one for sure, but do I really, really need it? No, not really.
But it's very compact, very quiet and want it or not, it's a hell of an engineering feat, credit due.
I've always been an enthusiast of the PC world myself, building my own rigs, but there comes a time when you want/need something else.
I was tired of the legacy crap. Like it or not, Apple has the balls to cut with the old and move on. Maybe not exactly with the latest but still they don't keep hanging on to decades long tech.
I know this is important for some, for several reasons, for to me I much prefer to cut with the old.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but to me it's the way to do it.
I'm too waiting for an upgrade on the nMP, wishing it to come sooner than later, but I see Apple tied up with other matters lately.
Also, in a year plus or so we'll have TB3, PCIe4 and whatever, but if they keep waiting for newer tech to be available, no upgrades will ever come to light.
For those who don't care, don't understand or whatever why we keep talking about this, well, I guess you don't need to be here discussing this matter with the ones who do. Why bother at all bashing?
Just my 2cents.

By the way, Fiji is looking good against the 980. Let's see if it comes to the nMP and how it will perform with the restrained thermals and power, how far they will have to cripple it or throttle down. Assuming Fiji will be the D710 of course.
Cut down Hawaii for the remaining D310 and D510?

 

[koyoot]

Assuming Fiji will be the D710 of course.
Cut down Hawaii for the remaining D310 and D510?

"Rumors" say it will be whole new lineup.

 

[milo]

Like what kind of software? Who and what do you think it's best for Milo?
Show you the P& L statement so you can justify the cost for us a as well.

Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to ask me or why.

It's not rocket science, the people who can benefit from things like more cores or more GPU power should be able to figure that out.

 

[MacProCard]

Why bother at all bashing?

That's a good question. There should be plenty of room to debate the driving forces governing the next nMP release. Some of it will come from the tech side and some will be driven by business.

I think things get squirrely when people's emotions get involved. IMO, some posters are mad that the nMP doesn't meet their needs. Understandable. But it is what it is. Take it up with Apple and not other members of the board.

Telling people they don't need one or that it's too expensive is just plain obnoxious behavior.

You hit the nail on the head, there will always be new technology. And given how this product is produced (time to market), you should expect a lag in it's technological capabilities by the time it hits the shelves.

Not enough credit is given to this wonderfully quite form factor.

 

[Umbongo]

You hit the nail on the head, there will always be new technology. And given how this product is produced (time to market), you should expect a lag in it's technological capabilities by the time it hits the shelves.

Why? The workstation market is stable, no other vendor does this and Apple didn't used to (first to market with 2008 1600MHz Penryn Xeons and 2009 Nehalem Xeons). Should people really expect it?

They should be used to it by now, but there was hope that they wouldn't do this again when Apple were all excited about the new Mac Pro.

 

[milo]

Exactly. Keeping workstations updated isn't a crazy engineering feat and other companies have no problem with it. Unless you make it a crazy engineering feat by trying to cram it into an awkward form factor.

 

[beaker7]

Exactly. Keeping workstations updated isn't a crazy engineering feat and other companies have no problem with it.

They should just hire some expertise from Dell, HP, Lenovo, Boxx, Fujitsu , Xi...

 

[AidenShaw]

They should just hire some expertise from Dell, HP, Lenovo, Boxx, Fujitsu , Xi...

What is wrong with their MOMA-trained engineers?

 

[ManuelGomes]

koyoot
Yes, I heard those rumors as well but, although I would find it fantastic - new cards based on "old" tech isn't the best option - GCN 1.3, power optimized, etc - there is no actual info that I know of regarding new mid and low end cards. If Fiji got out, why not the others? And the lower end based on Fiji seems unlikely, unless they cut even further, and it's not common having only one SKU for the entire lineup.

MPC, you said it right and as I said, that was one of the reasons I actually am considering buying one.
If it's too expensive, well that's my business, and fortunately now I can afford it even if some would say it's overkill (or not).
I had an eye on the MP for a few years now, but till now didn't have the money to spare. If now I can buy something I've wanted for long, why shouldn't I?
Let's face it, if not for anything else, Apple does in fact know how to properly design and engineer their products. Some might disagree but I'd say that's just because they don't like Apple itself for some reason. I'm no fanboy here, I just think credit is due.
If they now are behind all other workstation vendors regarding latest tech in nMP, which seems correct unfortunately for us, it could also mean that a more mature product will come out. Not that I believe this, most of the latest tech (CPU, PCH, GPU, SSD, RAM) is already available for some time. This time I believe they are either more concerned with other products (probably the main reason) or they are waiting for the newer things to come, which would be an infinite wait.
If they would go the Haswell way right now, Broadwell would only be a drop in replacement, same PCH/RAM/..., no additional engineering required until the next iteration, and a couple of years more in the nMP life without effort.
But they know best I guess...

 

[koyoot]

koyoot
Yes, I heard those rumors as well but, although I would find it fantastic - new cards based on "old" tech isn't the best option - GCN 1.3, power optimized, etc - there is no actual info that I know of regarding new mid and low end cards. If Fiji got out, why not the others? And the lower end based on Fiji seems unlikely, unless they cut even further, and it's not common having only one SKU for the entire lineup.

I already PMd You .

Looks like it will be whole new lineup with totally new technology.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Let's hope so.
If this info is correct (and I guess you have some degree of confidence) AMD is coming back to fight.
Funny, I always preferred nVidia cards, and I'm happy AMD is getting back on it's feet.
But I guess they're still a bit off with drivers (at the moment the delay could be what you mentioned, and let's hope it is).
Also, how come they have a hard time updating their website with the latest FirePro cards, W7100 and W5100 aren't there yet and they were release ages ago.

 

[ManuelGomes]

My mistake, the W7100 and W5100 are there already, not on the left side links but below the links are there.

----------

OK, I'm about to start a war here I guess
Who wants to comment the bad decisions Apple made in the nMP?
If you're just gonna troll please don't bother, go read some other thread or something.

For starters, using different GPU boards limits replacement. One has the SSD on it, which is a bummer.
Some will say no need for dual GPU and prefer dual CPU - fair enough.
Lack of expansion...
No additional GPUs to choose from.

Anyone?!

Still, I find it a great machine.
In such a small housing packing all that muscle is indeed a feat.
With some enhancements it would be perfect. Again, for some...
The next update will make it awesome I believe.
What would you want to see in the next version, considering the form factor remains?

 

[koyoot]

What exactly defines "bad design"?

Some decisions were made of engineering point of view, some were made from economic point of view, some were made from marketing point of view. And the whole design is the destilation of those points of view.

I don't like that its very overpriced in comparison to what it offers. For that kind of money I expect a LOT more than it offers now.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Didn't mean bad decisions were made, of course they were based on some principle, whatever it was. I'm sure Apple makes all their decisions in a very careful manner.
What I meant was what would we like to see different, if decisions would be made purely on a tech point of view, not regarding all those spheres you mentioned, and rightly so.