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When will the iMac be refreshed?

  • September/October Event

  • November/December Event

  • March/April Event

  • WWDC 2019


Results are only viewable after voting.

tomscott1988

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2009
711
699
UK
Being upsold was always the plan with Apple but I think there's legs in the iMac Pro concept in general and later on down the line Apple could go with Xeon CPUs if there is a suitable range at decent discounts to fit the 'professional' lineup they might have if ARM CPUs for consumer grade Macs are the plan going forward.

Launching the 2018 iMac closer to the 1 year anniversary of the iMac Pro makes it possible but unlikely that the iMac Pro gets a refresh at the same time (to get FaceID if nothing else).

The iMac Pro came out in December though and there's no other hardware that could fit into the first generation unless they are bringing out a lower priced SKU which is why I would have said that Apple could go a different way with the non-Pro iMac.

Xeon E CPUs in an iMac Pro would largely mimic the 8th generation Coffee Lake i7 so why offer an i7 option in the cheaper machine? Especially one which people would just add their own memory to?

My idea would be i5 CPU with 6 cores - which would be a horsepower increase on most 7th generation i7s doing multi threaded work - and bring in a Vega SKU to help fill the other 30w TDP which removing K series CPUs from the consumer iMac might offer.

Apple would create a lower priced iMac Pro SKU by introducing a 24" 4k panel but not 21.5" professional spec which seals the RAM in and introduces FaceID as a party trick (to be added to the second generation iMac Pro in due course).

So our iMac range looks like this:
21.5" iMac Retina DCI 4k starting with i5-8305g CPU (4 cores, 8 threads) and captive RAM
24" DCI 4k HDR iMac Pro with Xeon E, Vega 28/32, SSD only and captive RAM (6 cores, 12 threads)
27" iMac with i5 Coffee Lake and Vega 32/56 GPU (6 cores, 6 threads)
27" 5k iMac Pro with Xeon W, SSD only and captive RAM (8+ cores, 16+ threads)


A fully loaded low-SKU modular Mac Pro could also be offered around the price of the current 2013 Mac Pro.

The 7nm AMD Vega Instinct GPU will be with AMD partners by the end of the year - clearly that's going to be an option for modular Mac Pros.

Never going to happen. There will be no iMac pro refresh ever, it will be another product apple lets disapere as the advancements in CPU tech in the next 3 years will again be minimal meaning upgrading it in apples eyes will be pointless. The iMac pro is already 181 days in... the last normal iMac update 15-17 took 601 days...

If you want one of these machines be an early adopter otherwise you will be waiting a loooonnng time!

Xeons are unnecessary for 90% of people and the price point is too high. They add unnecessary cost with ECC memory etc For me ECC has been nothing but problems, ive had about £1000 worth of ECC ram fail in the last 8 years probably because it works harder and higher temps. Never had a normal stick fail... makes me concerned especially in a machine that is sealed.

There is no chance they will offer a 21 and 24. Too many machines as it is and one is going to end up being dropped. Makes more sence for them to drop the 21 as the 27 is currently gimped so they can share the same internal design. The 21 chassis is full yet the 27 has about 40% spare space inside. A 24 design would allow for a better thermal envelope design for both products.

I dont know why xeons are sold for high end creatives, lets be fair that is the majority market... content creators. Because the i series clock higher, are cheaper perform similarly and work better for most applications and they benefit from technology that intel deems unnecessary so removes from the xeons. The problem here is apple wont cool the i chips properly, otherwise they would perform very well.

Although the iMac pro has sold well for a high end desktop im sure its numbers pail in comparison to the rest of the line. You have to remember, one of the main reasons it has sold well is because its the only machine that makes any sense currently! The mac pro is 5 years old... the mac mini hasnt been touched and the standard iMac is great but throttles like mad and sounds like an airplane. Short term sales but in the long term sales will fall off. It will only age badly as it is a high end machine that is 5k start and there is no way of upgrading it, at 2k you dont worry as much but at 5k... it will age quickly and make less sense to people.

TBH I cant see apple ever making another iMac pro. In 5 years time I think the mac will unfortunately be in serious decline, it already is. The line up is so disjointed, full of quality control issues and full of compromise add to that old hardware and high prices.

TBH All I can see is a spec bump if we are lucky no change what so ever, same chassis but with newer CPUs. It may well be that apple deem the 8000 series CPUs as too fast because the iMac pro will struggle to compete price wise.

The 8770k is a speedy chip, in PCs it has been overclocked to 5ghz no problem and outperforms the 8 core iMac pro. As standard it will be withing 10% of the 8 core xeon multi and be more powerful single. Probably £1000 cheaper overall which is a win win for everyone and will make the iMac pro make even less sense for most people.

I mean come on Apple introduced touch ID to the mac when they discontinued it on the iphone... What makes you think the mac will get face ID... especially when non of the consumer portables have it either. No way they will make a splash on the desktops first.

I think you overestimate apple have you not been following them over the last 3-4 years.

At the end of the day the iMac pro cant be used in the same way as the old cheese grater mac pro, that was truly a fantastic machine. You could use it to render for days on end because of its thermal capacity and use it as a 9-5 machine because of its price point. The iMac pro has server grade components but nobody that buys ones of these will use it to sit and render because its an AIO and its too expensive for that useage. It will be a 9-5 machine and if people have projects that need to render over 24-48 hours will have another solution.

Its just the best of a bad situation imo, the iMac pro is a parts bin special to fill a hole they have left open for years to stop pros leaving. Its a show of force not a product to have confidence in it will disappear as fast as it arrived. The fragile way its been constructed and the lack of support screams this. Shows how little Apple cares about the mac and the issues people have had with the iMac pro is quite frankly appalling. If they arent interested in supporting it properly 6 months after launch what makes you think they are interested in making it a mainstream product and bringing out a 24.... LOL

The magic number in consumer desktops is 2k. 3-5k for even intermediate users is a lot and you are in that 10% of people realm. Its just not worth it.

It will be even more irrelevant when the mac pro is released, which I would say will be the last hurrah for professional apple desktops. I actually think the mac pro may come in slightly cheaper as a headless mac and give people what they want. If they dont it will be DOA and I think it will be the last nail in the coffin for prosumers, game over for apples high end desktops including the iMac.

Its all too little too late IMO.
 
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Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
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It’s not unprecedented - they were quite happy to skip 2016 altogether. Of course this time they’d be staying on quad core chips while the competition moved on to hexa-core
 

Appleaker

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2016
2,197
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This years iMacs were never scheduled for WWDC.
Yes, they will be released this year and it’ll be a major update.
It’ll be a separate event, not the September event.

If you don’t believe me then remember that this year is the 20th anniversary of the iMac, then rethink what you’re saying.
 

fathergll

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2014
1,852
1,612
It’s not unprecedented - they were quite happy to skip 2016 altogether. Of course this time they’d be staying on quad core chips while the competition moved on to hexa-core


They done a lot worse than that. Look at the Mac Mini. Removed the quad core cpu and soldered the ram and then didn't update it for 4 years.
 

mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,233
418
Brooklyn, NY
It’s not unprecedented - they were quite happy to skip 2016 altogether. Of course this time they’d be staying on quad core chips while the competition moved on to hexa-core

I disagree to the extent that Apple does not have the same "competition" that, for example, Dell has with HP. Those companies' computers are the exact sum of their parts, period. Apple brings more quality and well, "elegance" to the computing experience, and I don't think it sees itself directly competing with others. It stays in the same ball park, but when it releases a line of machines they will generally stick around for a year or two, or now even more, without succumbing to the latest component upgrades. Dell and HP always have machines coming out what seems like the day after newly released components, since that's all they have. I don't think you'll see Apple "competing" in the same way.
 
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tomscott1988

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2009
711
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UK
I disagree to the extent that Apple does not have the same "competition" that, for example, Dell has with HP. Those companies' computers are the exact sum of their parts, period. Apple brings more quality and well, "elegance" to the computing experience, and I don't think it sees itself directly competing with others. It stays in the same ball park, but when it releases a line of machines they will generally stick around for a year or two, or now even more, without succumbing to the latest component upgrades. Dell and HP always have machines coming out what seems like the day after newly released components, since that's all they have. I don't think you'll see Apple "competing" in the same way.

That was when you were happy with everything else.

Now mac OS is no where as good and stable as it was and apple only offer two pieces of optimised software and the machines are far more expensive.

At the end of the day all programs are cloud based now there is very little in the way of user experience difference and its very much bang for buck. The windows machines are far cheaper and are far more powerful. In this respects they are so overpriced.

Add the 5k with graphics that doesnt give you an excellent experience. I keep reminding people that the 5k display is 14mp and at 60fps is a **** ton of pixels to move with a mid range 560-580.

If the rest of the lineup wasnt a mess then people may stick around but currently people are jumping ship in every direction.
 

mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
1,233
418
Brooklyn, NY
Computer shipments were down by all manufacturers. Apple shipped 1.9 million Macs in the 3rd quarter of 2017 as opposed to 2 million in the third quarter of 2016. Dell and HP are also down 100's of thousands of shipments. I would hardly say that that people are jumping ship from Apple in every direction. And macOS is still miles better than Windows. My friends (and there are many) with Windows PC's still have the usual wifi, printing and cloud consistency problems on at least a weekly basis.
 

Appleaker

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2016
2,197
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It’s not unprecedented - they were quite happy to skip 2016 altogether. Of course this time they’d be staying on quad core chips while the competition moved on to hexa-core
For some perspective, skipping 2016 was the first time they hadn’t updated the iMac annually since the introduction of the iMac. They were happy to skip 2016 because for the most part, the iMac was already up to date.

It’s also important to remember other products and event scheduling. They could have released it at the October event or a quiet refresh on the online site but releasing a Mac that retains USB-A ports and uses Kaby Lake alongside the Skylake 2016 MBPs wouldn’t have been the best move. It fitted in better with WWDC, alongside other Mac refreshed and the iMac Pro reveal.

Despite all of that, this notion that ‘Apple will probably skip this year’ has arisen, and its probably worse than the ‘WWDC has always been a software event’ notion that came from 3 years of software only WWDC keynotes.


Anyway, it will be updated in 2018 and it won’t just be a spec bump. And actually, i7s are going octa-core now. Conveniently just weeks before Apples Mac event. So no iMac announcements at WWDC (which was always the plan) could turn out to be a blessing when it comes to CPU performance.
 
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Appleaker

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Jun 13, 2016
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@EugW has been arguing for months an 8 core iMac will be released this year, but I doubt it. I think we won't see a refresh on the iMac lineup until 2019.

Apple has bigger fish to fry with their laptops and the upcoming Mac Pro.

Of course we all desire more performance, but in truth the current iMac lineup is in great shape in its current state for its intended use. And if one needs more performance there is the iMac Pro.

Edit: 6 core not 8 core!!!
We’ve all been saying that, because the iMac will be refreshed this year.

Again, this notion that they skip years seems to have appeared because they didn’t update it in 2016 for the first time in the iMacs 20 year history - and the fact that this year is the 20th anniversary should be noted.

Also, it could actually be 8-core since Intel are releasing 8-core i7s around September.
 

pier

macrumors 6502a
Feb 7, 2009
582
983
Again, this notion that they skip years seems to have appeared because they didn’t update it in 2016 for the first time in the iMacs 20 year history - and the fact that this year is the 20th anniversary should be noted.

What about the 2013 Mac Pro?

Or the Mac Mini?

Or the 2015 MBP which was released with a 4th gen Haswell CPU from 2014?

Time will tell.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
For some perspective, skipping 2016 was the first time they hadn’t updated the iMac annually since the introduction of the iMac. They were happy to skip 2016 because for the most part, the iMac was already up to date.

It’s also important to remember other products and event scheduling. They could have released it at the October event or a quiet refresh on the online site but releasing a Mac that retains USB-A ports and uses Kaby Lake alongside the Skylake 2016 MBPs wouldn’t have been the best move. It fitted in better with WWDC, alongside other Mac refreshed and the iMac Pro reveal.

Despite all of that, this notion that ‘Apple will probably skip this year’ has arisen, and its probably worse than the ‘WWDC has always been a software event’ notion that came from 3 years of software only WWDC keynotes.


Anyway, it will be updated in 2018 and it won’t just be a spec bump. And actually, i7s are going octa-core now. Conveniently just weeks before Apples Mac event. So no iMac announcements at WWDC (which was always the plan) could turn out to be a blessing when it comes to CPU performance.

The lack of 2016 update was made all the more bizarre by the Europe-wide price bump. In the UK it's easy to partly attribute that to the collapse in sterling in the second half of that year following the BREXIT vote in June 2016. It was hard enough to take that MacBook Pro prices went up for UK users - the top SKU went from £1999 to £2699 - the hardware that WASN'T spec bumped also took a price hike by a similar degree and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was bumped on them.

Bear in mind that by October of 2016 only the 27" iMac had gone to Skylake which had launched that quarter. The 21.5" iMac stayed on Broadwell era CPUs for no discernible reason.

By the time June 2017 came around Apple could use the Kaby Lake CPUs which launched in 1Q 2017 making the 2017 update earlier than expected but represented a late update for buyers of the 21.5" iMac which nonetheless still looked relatively poor value next to a 27" iMac which you could at least update the RAM on.

I would say that the reason behind the lack of updates in the iMac in 2016 were down to issues with the 2016 MacBook Pro battery - I think Apple had drawn away engineering resources to make sure they could launch a laptop in October 2016 and they still ended up with a compromise battery and the well documented keyboard.

The relatively swift updates that followed were the engineering team catching up with the iMac and then releasing an amended MacBook Pro with 'fixes' for the keyboard.

Skipping this year would be a particularly bad decision given the release of the Coffee Lake CPUs which are all over Windows PC now and give a clear and obvious performance advantage over previous generations.

However Apple may have had to juggle the resources again given that the modular Mac Pro has been knocked back into 2019 giving the engineering teams time to look over the MacBook Pro again. Remember the laptops can't really skip years as they are by bulk the biggest sellers so I reckon that Apple have been working on those first and the iMacs have again missed out.

By the time October rolls around we'd be at 16 months since the June 2017 updates which were coincidentally unveiled at WWDC. There could be no further delays tolerated for the MacBook Pro - remember they even split the updates of the 13" and 15" models in 2015 because of having to wait for Intel to release CPUs and eventually launched the 15" with faster GPU, faster SSD, and bigger battery but continuing with Haswell CPUs with Intel having completely missed the boat following on from the 2014 MacBook Pros.

One thing you've overlooked in your post related to the i7s going 8 core - they aren't. The Coffee Lake H series CPUs are well known by now and are 6 core, 12 thread 45w units where suitable for the 15" MacBook Pro. Even the i9-8950HK overclockable range topper is just 6 cores, 12 threads - I can't see Apple having that as an option. To go 8 core would be to nerf the per-core clock speed right down in the available TDP - not a great idea in a workstation.

The best reason for delaying the updates at the moment is the fact that Intel haven't announced Coffee Lake successors to the Iris Graphics 15w CPU that go in the non touch bar MacBook Pro. They haven't announced a replacement for the Core M CPUs that went into the Retina MacBook either.

Given that Intel usually update those two families first when relating to the next generation of CPUs you might expect a quantum leap ahead to Cannon Lake parts but there's been talk of those having poor yields potentially relating to parts with deactivated graphics turning up in Lenovo machines.

With time running out Apple have several options and have probably already pulled the trigger on one of them regarding updates to the MacBook Pro given that they will already know if proper successor CPUs may be delayed into 2019 - unacceptable for Apple to wait that long. Here are their options:

a. Apple may go with no spec bump or even just a mild speed bump on the existing Kaby Lake CPUs (along with a price cut?)
b. Bump the non touch bar up to the full 28w Coffee Lake range effectively making 13" MacBook Pros a choice between touch bar or no touchbar - or cut a deal for the i3-8109U which is also 28w but only 2 cores. The extra PCIe lanes could mean Apple could put 4 full speed Thunderbolt 3 ports onto this model. This CPU could then go into the Mac Mini.
c. Go with the i5-8250U - it has a lesser GPU but could be offered cheaper than the existing model and potentially eliminate the MacBook Air (and go into the Mac Mini). The 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports that Apple would choose to put on this model might be an issue unless Apple offer USB-A ports (yeah, right!).
 

Appleaker

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Jun 13, 2016
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The lack of 2016 update was made all the more bizarre by the Europe-wide price bump. In the UK it's easy to partly attribute that to the collapse in sterling in the second half of that year following the BREXIT vote in June 2016. It was hard enough to take that MacBook Pro prices went up for UK users - the top SKU went from £1999 to £2699 - the hardware that WASN'T spec bumped also took a price hike by a similar degree and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was bumped on them.

Bear in mind that by October of 2016 only the 27" iMac had gone to Skylake which had launched that quarter. The 21.5" iMac stayed on Broadwell era CPUs for no discernible reason.

By the time June 2017 came around Apple could use the Kaby Lake CPUs which launched in 1Q 2017 making the 2017 update earlier than expected but represented a late update for buyers of the 21.5" iMac which nonetheless still looked relatively poor value next to a 27" iMac which you could at least update the RAM on.

I would say that the reason behind the lack of updates in the iMac in 2016 were down to issues with the 2016 MacBook Pro battery - I think Apple had drawn away engineering resources to make sure they could launch a laptop in October 2016 and they still ended up with a compromise battery and the well documented keyboard.

The relatively swift updates that followed were the engineering team catching up with the iMac and then releasing an amended MacBook Pro with 'fixes' for the keyboard.

Skipping this year would be a particularly bad decision given the release of the Coffee Lake CPUs which are all over Windows PC now and give a clear and obvious performance advantage over previous generations.

However Apple may have had to juggle the resources again given that the modular Mac Pro has been knocked back into 2019 giving the engineering teams time to look over the MacBook Pro again. Remember the laptops can't really skip years as they are by bulk the biggest sellers so I reckon that Apple have been working on those first and the iMacs have again missed out.

By the time October rolls around we'd be at 16 months since the June 2017 updates which were coincidentally unveiled at WWDC. There could be no further delays tolerated for the MacBook Pro - remember they even split the updates of the 13" and 15" models in 2015 because of having to wait for Intel to release CPUs and eventually launched the 15" with faster GPU, faster SSD, and bigger battery but continuing with Haswell CPUs with Intel having completely missed the boat following on from the 2014 MacBook Pros.

One thing you've overlooked in your post related to the i7s going 8 core - they aren't. The Coffee Lake H series CPUs are well known by now and are 6 core, 12 thread 45w units where suitable for the 15" MacBook Pro. Even the i9-8950HK overclockable range topper is just 6 cores, 12 threads - I can't see Apple having that as an option. To go 8 core would be to nerf the per-core clock speed right down in the available TDP - not a great idea in a workstation.

The best reason for delaying the updates at the moment is the fact that Intel haven't announced Coffee Lake successors to the Iris Graphics 15w CPU that go in the non touch bar MacBook Pro. They haven't announced a replacement for the Core M CPUs that went into the Retina MacBook either.

Given that Intel usually update those two families first when relating to the next generation of CPUs you might expect a quantum leap ahead to Cannon Lake parts but there's been talk of those having poor yields potentially relating to parts with deactivated graphics turning up in Lenovo machines.

With time running out Apple have several options and have probably already pulled the trigger on one of them regarding updates to the MacBook Pro given that they will already know if proper successor CPUs may be delayed into 2019 - unacceptable for Apple to wait that long. Here are their options:

a. Apple may go with no spec bump or even just a mild speed bump on the existing Kaby Lake CPUs (along with a price cut?)
b. Bump the non touch bar up to the full 28w Coffee Lake range effectively making 13" MacBook Pros a choice between touch bar or no touchbar - or cut a deal for the i3-8109U which is also 28w but only 2 cores. The extra PCIe lanes could mean Apple could put 4 full speed Thunderbolt 3 ports onto this model. This CPU could then go into the Mac Mini.
c. Go with the i5-8250U - it has a lesser GPU but could be offered cheaper than the existing model and potentially eliminate the MacBook Air (and go into the Mac Mini). The 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports that Apple would choose to put on this model might be an issue unless Apple offer USB-A ports (yeah, right!).
Processors aren’t the sole reason for the lack of MacBook refreshes (although they are for the 12” MacBook), but anyway, I want to stick on the topic of the thread which is an iMac refresh. I will respond with just 2 points to correct what you’re saying:
We will see a new iMac this year.
Desktop Core i7s are going 8 core.
 

mreg376

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2008
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Processors aren’t the sole reason for the lack of MacBook refreshes (although they are for the 12” MacBook), but anyway, I want to stick on the topic of the thread which is an iMac refresh. I will respond with just 2 points to correct what you’re saying:
We will see a new iMac this year.
Desktop Core i7s are going 8 core.
Are those just guesses/predictions that you're putting forward as facts, or do you have some authority for that?
 

Appleaker

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2016
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What about the 2013 Mac Pro?

Or the Mac Mini?

Or the 2015 MBP which was released with a 4th gen Haswell CPU from 2014?

Time will tell.
The iMac is not the Mac Pro or Mac mini. And even if they were, Apple has sorted themselves out in that regard so that wouldn’t matter anyway.
As for the 2015 MacBook Pro, that is a very different scenario. Technically it was released before the suitable processors were released, although they could have waited. Even then, that’s an example of Apple wanting to update a product rather than delaying it. Anyway, it will be refreshed this year, but time will tell whether they will use the then recently released 8-core processors which, iMac Pro aside, I can’t see why they wouldn’t.
 

Appleaker

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Jun 13, 2016
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Time will tell.

Almost half of the year has passed already.
This years iMacs were never schedules for a WWDC release, they were always intended for late 2018 for a number of reasons, including the new design. Not to mention that will be following the actual 20 year anniversary mark which will be in August.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
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Never going to happen. There will be no iMac pro refresh ever, it will be another product apple lets disapere as the advancements in CPU tech in the next 3 years will again be minimal meaning upgrading it in apples eyes will be pointless. The iMac pro is already 181 days in... the last normal iMac update 15-17 took 601 days...

If you want one of these machines be an early adopter otherwise you will be waiting a loooonnng time!

Xeons are unnecessary for 90% of people and the price point is too high. They add unnecessary cost with ECC memory etc For me ECC has been nothing but problems, ive had about £1000 worth of ECC ram fail in the last 8 years probably because it works harder and higher temps. Never had a normal stick fail... makes me concerned especially in a machine that is sealed.

There is no chance they will offer a 21 and 24. Too many machines as it is and one is going to end up being dropped. Makes more sence for them to drop the 21 as the 27 is currently gimped so they can share the same internal design. The 21 chassis is full yet the 27 has about 40% spare space inside. A 24 design would allow for a better thermal envelope design for both products.

I dont know why xeons are sold for high end creatives, lets be fair that is the majority market... content creators. Because the i series clock higher, are cheaper perform similarly and work better for most applications and they benefit from technology that intel deems unnecessary so removes from the xeons. The problem here is apple wont cool the i chips properly, otherwise they would perform very well.

Although the iMac pro has sold well for a high end desktop im sure its numbers pail in comparison to the rest of the line. You have to remember, one of the main reasons it has sold well is because its the only machine that makes any sense currently! The mac pro is 5 years old... the mac mini hasnt been touched and the standard iMac is great but throttles like mad and sounds like an airplane. Short term sales but in the long term sales will fall off. It will only age badly as it is a high end machine that is 5k start and there is no way of upgrading it, at 2k you dont worry as much but at 5k... it will age quickly and make less sense to people.

TBH I cant see apple ever making another iMac pro. In 5 years time I think the mac will unfortunately be in serious decline, it already is. The line up is so disjointed, full of quality control issues and full of compromise add to that old hardware and high prices.

TBH All I can see is a spec bump if we are lucky no change what so ever, same chassis but with newer CPUs. It may well be that apple deem the 8000 series CPUs as too fast because the iMac pro will struggle to compete price wise.

The 8770k is a speedy chip, in PCs it has been overclocked to 5ghz no problem and outperforms the 8 core iMac pro. As standard it will be withing 10% of the 8 core xeon multi and be more powerful single. Probably £1000 cheaper overall which is a win win for everyone and will make the iMac pro make even less sense for most people.

I mean come on Apple introduced touch ID to the mac when they discontinued it on the iphone... What makes you think the mac will get face ID... especially when non of the consumer portables have it either. No way they will make a splash on the desktops first.

I think you overestimate apple have you not been following them over the last 3-4 years.

At the end of the day the iMac pro cant be used in the same way as the old cheese grater mac pro, that was truly a fantastic machine. You could use it to render for days on end because of its thermal capacity and use it as a 9-5 machine because of its price point. The iMac pro has server grade components but nobody that buys ones of these will use it to sit and render because its an AIO and its too expensive for that useage. It will be a 9-5 machine and if people have projects that need to render over 24-48 hours will have another solution.

Its just the best of a bad situation imo, the iMac pro is a parts bin special to fill a hole they have left open for years to stop pros leaving. Its a show of force not a product to have confidence in it will disappear as fast as it arrived. The fragile way its been constructed and the lack of support screams this. Shows how little Apple cares about the mac and the issues people have had with the iMac pro is quite frankly appalling. If they arent interested in supporting it properly 6 months after launch what makes you think they are interested in making it a mainstream product and bringing out a 24.... LOL

The magic number in consumer desktops is 2k. 3-5k for even intermediate users is a lot and you are in that 10% of people realm. Its just not worth it.

It will be even more irrelevant when the mac pro is released, which I would say will be the last hurrah for professional apple desktops. I actually think the mac pro may come in slightly cheaper as a headless mac and give people what they want. If they dont it will be DOA and I think it will be the last nail in the coffin for prosumers, game over for apples high end desktops including the iMac.

Its all too little too late IMO.

I think you're expecting Apple to repeat themselves as per their recent and well documented Mac Pro failures. There are probably several reasons behind the delays but those speculations are for another post.

By going to high end Xeon CPUs for the iMac Pro Apple are buying into CPUs with a longer shelf life but potentially longer times between updates. A lot less messing about there. They could easily bump next year's model with FaceID, or faster SSD/Optane, better AMD GPU, and call it a refresh but they won't do what the likes of Dell/HP would do which is cut prices over time.

If they don't cut prices they have to refresh otherwise the product looks stale and customers don't get inclined to buy, even for a halo product like the iMac Pro undoubtedly is. The value isn't entirely in black and white sales figures, it's also in proving that Apple can engineer such a product and sell it. Call it marketing. Steve Jobs certainly would have.

I would say that Apple have asked for one more chance to regain the reputation they have been losing with successive failures to update various professional level products. If professionals ever felt Apple were abandoning iMac Pro or modular Mac Pro without reason it's game over for them. Too many people have invested too much money to be stung again.

You've had bad luck with your RAM that's for sure, but that's not to say that ECC RAM is a bad thing. What's bad is not being able to easily access that RAM to change it when sticks do inevitably go bad.

I thought 9.7" and 12.9" were enough and yet we have a 10.5" iPad Pro. I don't get their logic either having not come close to an iPad Pro so won't comment further other than to say that the 9.7" iPad Pro is discontinued - the 9.7" size is for consumers only with the 12.9" and 10.5" carrying the Pro flag forward.

How many folks have thought that 21.5" too small, while 27" is too large (and expensive?). It could be a way for Apple to try something new in design terms, especially if they felt that a 24" panel could be had cost effectively.

I believe $3k for a fully specified pro level machine on a certain budget is an aim for Apple. They will calculate they have a certain buying market at that scale.

The i7-8700K runs hot as a CPU, and Apple won't overlock it in the iMac. If they use it then they are wasting that extra $100 they spent on an extra 500MHz over the non-K version as that CPU would turbo to almost the same clock speed as the cooler running i7-8700 (non-K).

Apple would then have a 30w TDP budget to make the iMac quieter or more powerful in GPU compute by buying in a better class of GPU - even a VEGA perhaps.

They can choose to do this at this one time because Coffee Lake CPUs have more compute power overall due to extra cores - they couldn't have done it for the 2017 models for example. Or they could warm it over with the i7-8700K which could start to make the base model iMac Pro look poor value if benchmarks get close.

In terms of FaceID beating the laptops to the punch:
1. The required FaceID camera assembly may be too big for the lid of a MacBook Pro unless this is one of the reasons why Apple have delayed the MacBook Pro. TouchID is fine because mobile users touch the keyboard on their laptop. The Touch bar is another thing altogether...
2. FaceID makes more sense in the iMac which can probably accommodate the camera assembly and whose keyboards are generally wireless, TouchID is fine on the laptops which are expensive enough as it is.
3. Nothing got updated this month because I believe Apple will do a simultaneous update again - whenever that is - most of the iMac parts are available and there can only be one major reason for the delay - they want to do it all at once.

I don't think there's anything particularly new looking in the iMac Pro - but in another world it would be the refreshed iMac full stop. The main feature being able to handle hotter CPU and GPU, make them quieter, at the expense of the RAM. For most people that's fine.

Professionals are probably wanting a more modular Mac, some will want to buy bare bones and add over time. I would say that professionals want to be able to replace bad RAM or storage easily without taking it to an Apple Store - no matter how 'convenient' where relatively untrained retail staff could be handling something that cost more than the car they drove to work. Not every professional is their own IT department but I'd expect a machine to allow the replacement of defective RAM or storage without losing access to my machine for more than an hour and without leaving home or the office.

I accept that a one cable monitor solution won't give me a 5k to 8k monitor until Thunderbolt 4 so a 4k monitor would be fine for me. Dell or Eizo sell decent ones. Some makes are probably better than the LG-based efforts that Apple sell.
 

pier

macrumors 6502a
Feb 7, 2009
582
983
This years iMacs were never schedules for a WWDC release, they were always intended for late 2018 for a number of reasons, including the new design. Not to mention that will be following the actual 20 year anniversary mark which will be in August.

What new design?
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
Processors aren’t the sole reason for the lack of MacBook refreshes (although they are for the 12” MacBook), but anyway, I want to stick on the topic of the thread which is an iMac refresh. I will respond with just 2 points to correct what you’re saying:
We will see a new iMac this year.
Desktop Core i7s are going 8 core.

1. Did I say there would be no new iMac this year? It's a must given the Coffee Lake CPUs. I had been predicting them as soon as March if Apple were refreshing the MacBook Pro quickly. June was the 1 year average refresh date, but now October looks like a tardy update so we expect something special (or something disappointing).

2. Show me the 8 core consumer scale i7 on the Intel site. If you are referring to the Skylake-X/Kaby Lake-X series such as the i7-7820X those are:

a. Being discontinued and don't have integrated GPU with Quicksync which would help with video software exports.
b. Hugely expensive - just look on the Intel site for RRP on CPUs and motherboards. Coffee Lake 8700K+Z370 motherboard is much better value and Apple have probably waited this long to get their hands on the B360 chipset for a further cost saving.
c. Have a TDP of 140W (much more than the Coffee Lake i7s which currently run to 95w) Need a cooling solution not unlike what's in the iMac Pro - which coincidentally is available with an 8 core Xeon not too dissimilar. The extra money spent gets you lots of extra PCIe lanes and therefore Thunderbolt 3 ports so in effect you want an 8 core iMac - it's called the iMac Pro and you can buy NOW.

You want a PC built with KabyLake-X parts? Come back when you've got one under $2k with a 5k screen on it and professional level accoutrements.
[doublepost=1528928846][/doublepost]
This years iMacs were never schedules for a WWDC release, they were always intended for late 2018 for a number of reasons, including the new design. Not to mention that will be following the actual 20 year anniversary mark which will be in August.

What new design?

No idea mate. According to Macrumors the 20th anniversary of the iMac was in May. It's been and gone. If we're talking about the 'new design' Apple just take the iMac Pro, make it silver, and put a Coffee Lake i7 in it. Job done
 

DQ11

macrumors regular
Apr 12, 2018
199
65
For some perspective, skipping 2016 was the first time they hadn’t updated the iMac annually since the introduction of the iMac. They were happy to skip 2016 because for the most part, the iMac was already up to date.

It’s also important to remember other products and event scheduling. They could have released it at the October event or a quiet refresh on the online site but releasing a Mac that retains USB-A ports and uses Kaby Lake alongside the Skylake 2016 MBPs wouldn’t have been the best move. It fitted in better with WWDC, alongside other Mac refreshed and the iMac Pro reveal.

Despite all of that, this notion that ‘Apple will probably skip this year’ has arisen, and its probably worse than the ‘WWDC has always been a software event’ notion that came from 3 years of software only WWDC keynotes.


Anyway, it will be updated in 2018 and it won’t just be a spec bump. And actually, i7s are going octa-core now. Conveniently just weeks before Apples Mac event. So no iMac announcements at WWDC (which was always the plan) could turn out to be a blessing when it comes to CPU performance.

I really want to start making music again in Logic Pro X on a new imac but I'm almost certain as soon as I buy one, they will announce something new.

Last Mac I bought was 2007 MBP in Sep/Oct 2007 and literally 1-2 months later they released a new MBP & Logic Pro 8 (I was using and still use Logic Pro 7).

I'm trying to avoid this situation again but the desire to create again is eating away at me.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
The iMac is not the Mac Pro or Mac mini. And even if they were, Apple has sorted themselves out in that regard so that wouldn’t matter anyway.
As for the 2015 MacBook Pro, that is a very different scenario. Technically it was released before the suitable processors were released, although they could have waited. Even then, that’s an example of Apple wanting to update a product rather than delaying it. Anyway, it will be refreshed this year, but time will tell whether they will use the then recently released 8-core processors which, iMac Pro aside, I can’t see why they wouldn’t.

See my other post above for my thoughts on the 2015 MacBook Pro. I think the project that became the 2016 MacBook Pro had to have work done on it and Intel's release schedule was slipping. The Skylake CPUs had probably slipped beyond the end of the October 2015 release schedule that Apple were aiming for so they chose to refresh.

The 2016 MacBook Pros were already launched in October of that year, probably well over 6 months after the Skylake CPUs had become belatedly available and they had to go with that rather than the Kaby Lake CPUs which were due in early 2017. Hence the 2016 models had CPUs that were superseded only months later by cooler running CPUs that could decode h.265 in hardware.

And now we have 6 core Coffee Lake CPUs that have been available for a few months now. Apple could have updated most of their range in March. They could have done nearly all of it in June. Intel aren't giving any clues yet about suitable Coffee Lake CPUs for the non touch bar MacBook Pro 13" or Retina MacBook. Either Apple already know or they have some sort of plan.

Or they'll just leave those Macs untouched in October. :p

You'll have to point out the 'recently released' 8 core processors from the Intel site. I can't see any (for a reasonable price anyway). See my other post for the reasons but the long and short of it is the 6 core Coffee Lakes have wiped out any advantage the X series might have had.
 

Internet Enzyme

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 21, 2016
999
1,794
Sorry, $3000 is ok for a machine with tons of power. But there should be a $1000 version too. I am serious about the battery being necessary feature.

The reason i wasnt clear if you were being sarcastic was because the price of $3000 wqs reserved for the mac pro and i think that even a lower spec-ed imac pro would be priced above the 2013 mac pro’s original msrp. I believe that $3000 would be a reasonable price, however.
[doublepost=1528936173][/doublepost]Im finding the fact that this is the twentieth anniversary of the mac to be a pretty salient point thats been presented that makes me think that the imac will have to be released this year. I refuse to believe that apple would ignore such an attractive marketing opportunity. I didnt think that a redesign was likely this year, but since there wasnt anything at wwdc and that its the 20th anniversary, i think they will have to go big with a redesign. Which is cool, but whenever they redesign there is a fear that certain nice holdbacks will be removed: ram expandability being the most obvious ommision
 
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EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,981
12,946
This years iMacs were never schedules for a WWDC release, they were always intended for late 2018 for a number of reasons, including the new design. Not to mention that will be following the actual 20 year anniversary mark which will be in August.
A new iMac design is pretty unlikely in 2018.

Desktop Core i7s are going 8 core.
I'd be shocked if the iMacs go 8-core. ie. They won't. They will be 6-core.

The best reason for delaying the updates at the moment is the fact that Intel haven't announced Coffee Lake successors to the Iris Graphics 15w CPU that go in the non touch bar MacBook Pro. They haven't announced a replacement for the Core M CPUs that went into the Retina MacBook either.
For Y series in the Retina 12" MacBooks, Intel has already talked about Amber Lake Y.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12878/intel-discuss-whiskey-lake-amber-lake-and-cascade-lake

They have not been clear on this, but these appear to be 14 nm versions of what was supposed to be Cannon Lake Y.
 
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