No 2018 iMac?!

[imac2017mm]

Some interesting replies...

to answer; the mac mini is definitely getting an update considering Tim said there’s still interest in it and Kuo said significant updates coming.
Kuo also rumoured that the selling price will rise, which suggests it might have similar specs to intel skull canyon.

I would play devils advocate and say it’s more convenient to have the mini, because I’d much rather crack that open to fix/upgrade something a few years down the line that peel off a 5k panel. It might well be slightly larger this time round, but no bigger than say an Xbox that’s easily slipped under the desk to be forgotten about?
When you compare the latest ultra thin bezel 24/27” monitors to an iMac, the iMac looks prehistoric with its massive chin and bezels, and can’t be adjusted by height or rotation.

i personally don't feel the chin to be all that massive. if anything it is an All-in-One computer, so it should resemble something like that. The older iMacs had a way more massive of a chin. These are minor things, huge chin and bezel doesn't stop anybody from getting work done.

I think if they reduce the bezels then they will probably also reduce the rounded edges of the iMac so that the actual screen won't be too rounded like these current smartphones nowadays

 

[EugW]

i personally don't feel the chin to be all that massive. if anything it is an All-in-One computer, so it should resemble something like that. The older iMacs had a way more massive of a chin. These are minor things, huge chin and bezel doesn't stop anybody from getting work done.

I think if they reduce the bezels then they will probably also reduce the rounded edges of the iMac so that the actual screen won't be too rounded like these current smartphones nowadays

The problem with the chin is that it raises the screen height. The 27" iMac is already problematic for some people in terms of ergonomics. It would be less problematic if the screen height were a couple of inches lower.

 

[SkiHound2]

I'm going to spin this thread round and ask; what's the point of the iMac at all if the Mac Mini is released with upgraded specs equal or very similar to an iMac, and it can be hidden under a desk easily and connected up to 1 or 2 ultra thin monitors of the users choice? Surely, for this reason alone the iMac would have to up it's game to have a USP ?

Years ago I had an iMac, 24" I believe and I don't recall what year. Didn't love the idea of trashing a screen just because the other computer hardware needed replacing. So I bought a really nice 27" 2560 x 1440 monitor and a late 2012 mini. At that time you could get a quad core 2.6ghz i7, 1 TB Fusion drive with 128gb ssd, and ram was user upgradable. At that time the mini certainly had sufficient power for my needs. My thought was I'd just upgrade the mini in a few years. Of course, the 2014 mini was pretty much a side grade I'm still using the mini but have been looking for an upgrade. I do a lot of photo editing and want a large screen. So, I've been looking at iMacs and intend to buy when new models are released. If they release a mini that can be specced decently, I'd give it a close look.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

The problem with the chin is that it raises the screen height. The 27" iMac is already problematic for some people in terms of ergonomics. It would be less problematic if the screen height were a couple of inches lower.

Agreed. I wish the height were adjustable. The actual display on the iMac is about 6" above the desk. With my PC, the screen (it's also 27") is only 2" above the desk and it works much better for me.

Apple will decide the iMac is worth a “major update” not after a given number of years of “minor updates”, but when there is a business case for doing a “major update”, based on sales data, market pressure, etc. Which is pretty much how all businesses plan their products. A product gets a major update when it needs it.

Why would there never be a macOS 11?

For a number of reasons, I am predicting there will never be a macOS 11, but that's a discussion for another thread. (It's partly tradition and semantics--the difference between iOS 11 and 12 is no greater than the difference between macOS 10.13 and 10.14, yet it gets a new number).

And I believe that the iMac is due for a major update; as mentioned above, I would like to see a reduction in the chin of the computer and the bezels, which to me is an outdated design and there is room for improvement in ergonomics, not to mention a better cooling system and implication of FaceID. Any of those things I would consider a "major update" as opposed to a spec (minor) update. I'll be glad to see a spec update, don't get me wrong. I just don't agree that there's nothing they could do to the form factor.

I understand how businesses work; I don't need you to condescend to me, thanks

 

[loybond]

But why would you compare the iMac to a monitor? You're better off comparing the iMac to the Surface Studio or other AIOs. IMO the iMac has its own style with the chin. It's not a a phone or tablet; doesn't need to be portable and minimal to that extent. And since its a desktop, power and specs matter here, and can't be secondary to aesthetics. Personally, I want to see more powerful components, RAM upgradability, improvements to the screen, camera, speakers, mics, and of course the connectivity. A larger screen would be great too.

I think the footprint is what matters, and the iMac is great for that. If they got rid of the chin, ok, but practically speaking, it won't make much of a difference on a desk. I would like to see much better height adjustability, but Apple being Apple frequently chooses aesthetics over function. That lampshade iMac I think had the best options for adjustability.

When you compare the latest ultra thin bezel 24/27” monitors to an iMac, the iMac looks prehistoric with its massive chin and bezels, and can’t be adjusted by height or rotation.

[doublepost=1540488059][/doublepost]I agree... that's probably why they've kept the mini lower-end than the iMacs. They seemed to intend it to be the entry level (read: cheapest) model. If they're going to stick with that idea, it might have old school hard drives, minimal RAM, integrated graphics, with perhaps a possibility of a slightly better BTO CPU. But to me as well, there's no point, might as well go Macbook/Pro + external monitors or iMac. I think there's no need for a mini.

I'm going to spin this thread round and ask; what's the point of the iMac at all if the Mac Mini is released with upgraded specs equal or very similar to an iMac, and it can be hidden under a desk easily and connected up to 1 or 2 ultra thin monitors of the users choice? Surely, for this reason alone the iMac would have to up it's game to have a USP ?

 

[ThisBougieLife]

I would just like to see the distance between the bottom of the screen and the desk reduced. If that's done through shrinking the chin or allowing for some height adjustability, I don't care. I'm not arguing that it needs to be minimal for aesthetics' sake. In going with it not needing to be minimal, I certainly don't need it to be thinner or lighter; if they wanted to increase the weight or have it thicker in the back, I wouldn't mind that either.

 

[fokmik]

Some interesting replies...

to answer; the mac mini is definitely getting an update considering Tim said there’s still interest in it and Kuo said significant updates coming.
Kuo also rumoured that the selling price will rise, which suggests it might have similar specs to intel skull canyon.

I would play devils advocate and say it’s more convenient to have the mini, because I’d much rather crack that open to fix/upgrade something a few years down the line that peel off a 5k panel. It might well be slightly larger this time round, but no bigger than say an Xbox that’s easily slipped under the desk to be forgotten about?
When you compare the latest ultra thin bezel 24/27” monitors to an iMac, the iMac looks prehistoric with its massive chin and bezels, and can’t be adjusted by height or rotation.

this would be real contender for the imac IF apple really makes the next apple display like last year rumors said with dGPU inside...so buy the mac mini and apple display...but yet again this way, the price will be higher, and that dGPu gets absolute after few years, but still....if Apple will update the monitor with new dGpu every year...than you can update only the Monitor,but yet again...only if will be a 5k and 1000-1500$
So this way, if the mac mini it will be a Ram and ssd replaceable it will last 5-6 years with new gen cpu now days
[doublepost=1540491291][/doublepost]So, we have 27" imac at 2500$ i7 six cores 32 gb ram 512 SSD
OR
Mac mini i7 six cores 32 gb ram 512 SSD at 999$ + 5k imac with 560X dGPu 1299$ for a total 2298$
and by the line...since the Gpu is the first thing that gets old...you can swap only the 1299$ 5k panel with a newer Gpu

but, but there a lot of IF's in this thing

 

[Lesser Evets]

Some interesting replies...

I would play devils advocate and say it’s more convenient to have the mini, because I’d much rather crack that open to fix/upgrade something a few years down the line that peel off a 5k panel.

I hate clutter. Computers,electronics, home entertainment, power tools--so easy to clutter up everything and look like you live in a 1978 spaceship from Doctor Who.

 

[mcnallym]

To anyone wanting a height adjustable iMac then why not buy the vesa mount iMac instead.

That way can adjust the height to what suits you individually.

 

[Lammers]

And I believe that the iMac is due for a major update; as mentioned above, I would like to see a reduction in the chin of the computer and the bezels, which to me is an outdated design and there is room for improvement in ergonomics, not to mention a better cooling system and implication of FaceID. Any of those things I would consider a "major update" as opposed to a spec (minor) update. I'll be glad to see a spec update, don't get me wrong. I just don't agree that there's nothing they could do to the form factor.

I agree that those are all opportunities - I'm just not convinced that Apple will decide that now is the time that it needs to dedicate its design and engineering resources to the iMac.

The nagging doubt in my mind about this topic though is the thought that Apple reportedly had a lot of its design team working on Apple Park over the last few years, and that has now been done for a little while which presumably means that design capacity has been freed up to work on products again. So whilst I still expect that Apple's view is that there is no business case for redesigning the iMac yet, a small part of me remains optimistic that they might choose to nevertheless.

I understand how businesses work; I don't need you to condescend to me, thanks

That's fair, I apologize.

 

[Kurri]

Some interesting replies...

to answer; the mac mini is definitely getting an update considering Tim said there’s still interest in it and Kuo said significant updates coming.
Kuo also rumoured that the selling price will rise, which suggests it might have similar specs to intel skull canyon.

I would play devils advocate and say it’s more convenient to have the mini, because I’d much rather crack that open to fix/upgrade something a few years down the line that peel off a 5k panel. It might well be slightly larger this time round, but no bigger than say an Xbox that’s easily slipped under the desk to be forgotten about?
When you compare the latest ultra thin bezel 24/27” monitors to an iMac, the iMac looks prehistoric with its massive chin and bezels, and can’t be adjusted by height or rotation.

I'd rather have a pro mac mini, but i doubt it will have the same power as an imac which is why we are stuck with a 5K panel some of us dont want or need. I'd rather spend every penny on power, i have a great 4k monitor at home.

 

[DinkThifferent]

I could see this going 2 ways...

1) They do an iMac Pro style iMac with redesigned/upgraded internals.

2) They do a spec bump now, keep the internal design the same and release a redesigned external at WWDC.

I don't expect Apple to show us a radically new iMac design for two reasons. It would make the year old iMac Pro look outdated, while they are still selling them as top notch. Two: Apple said they would release a new Mac Pro in 2019. Wouldn't it make more sense to release two new designs at the same time?

But then again... they released a new iPhone design in 2017 and (probably) a new iPad design in 2018...

Ah! What do I know

 

[Lammers]

I don't expect Apple to show us a radically new iMac design for two reasons. It would make the year old iMac Pro look outdated, while they are still selling them as top notch. Two: Apple said they would release a new Mac Pro in 2019. Wouldn't it make more sense to release two new designs at the same time?

Not sure I agree with "Two", but I've made the same point as "One" myself in this forum several times too. I think launching a redesigned iMac less than a year after launching the iMac Pro is a recipe for having a lot of angry iMac Pro customers, and I'm not sure they would take that risk.

 

[newyorksole]

I don't expect Apple to show us a radically new iMac design for two reasons. It would make the year old iMac Pro look outdated, while they are still selling them as top notch. Two: Apple said they would release a new Mac Pro in 2019. Wouldn't it make more sense to release two new designs at the same time?

But then again... they released a new iPhone design in 2017 and (probably) a new iPad design in 2018...

Ah! What do I know

Haha nah you’re absolutely right! I’m just gonna be so torn if they don’t do anything radical this year. Because it’s like... Do I wait for a redesign? Or just replace my 8 year old machine now.

Ugh. We’ll see.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I agree that those are all opportunities - I'm just not convinced that Apple will decide that now is the time that it needs to dedicate its design and engineering resources to the iMac.

The nagging doubt in my mind about this topic though is the thought that Apple reportedly had a lot of its design team working on Apple Park over the last few years, and that has now been done for a little while which presumably means that design capacity has been freed up to work on products again. So whilst I still expect that Apple's view is that there is no business case for redesigning the iMac yet, a small part of me remains optimistic that they might choose to nevertheless.

That's fair, I apologize.

Personally, I think there will be a lot more to digest after the Event takes place and we see what Apple actually releases in to the wild (Thanks, Captain Obvious!).

Your appraisal is fair, I do not disagree, but perhaps Apple is regrouping with its Mac efforts now. What I mean, is that here are the items whose overall Industrial Design should be settled for the next several years after next Tuesday:

Already done
1. iPhone XS and XS Max - Done and Done. Apple labored to get the X out the door, they took the next logical step and now we have a design that should remain more or less unchanged for the next 4-6 years (upgrade cycles are stretching out which is why I think the design will be around that long).
2. iPhone XR - Done. It is a new design, the challenges inherit to the design have been worked out and now it will be a matter of refinements.
3. Apple Watch - Series 4 is a major step and replaces the Series 3, so the ID should carry forward for the Series 5, 6 and possibly 7 before a complete overhaul sees the light of day.
4. MacBook Pro - We are on the third iteration of the same ID, love it or hate it. We probably have at least two more updates before any ID change is made, so around 2-3 years.
5. iPad 7 - I do not expect any changes for a while with this one, because it is designed to meet a price point. That does not mean that Apple will ignore it, but it's in good shape now.

Next week
1. 12" MacBook and 13"/14" MacBook (Air) replacement - this design should last for the next 3-5 years with minor changes along the way.
2. Mac mini - should Apple actually update the mini, expect this design to last at least 5-7 years.
3. iPad Pro - This is a big one and it sets up the iPad Pro for at least another 3-5 years. Really, there is only so much ID you can do on a tablet. Props to Apple for the many iterations they have done already.
4. iPad mini 5- If the mini is updated, I honestly expect it to use the mini 1/2/3 ID to cut costs. Slightly different colors, but no laminated display, etc. After that, it will have to really sell well to get a mini 6.

Still to complete
1. iMac/iMac Pro - I honestly have no issues with the design as it is now, but I suspect Apple may want to align both with the display ID that they are working on now. So, 2019 and Cannon Lake may give us a truly elegant re-design.
2. Mac Pro - Probably the most intense ID being done right now as the MacBook ID is locked down.
3. Home Pod - The basic engineering for the sound and capabilities is done, so its a matter of how much Apple wants to push this product.
4. AppleTV - Yeah, this one is not hard at all. It may get a major redesign next year depending on how Apple pushes its new streaming service.

If ID is done work on the Apple Park and has freed up along with manufacturing resources with the launch of the iPhones and the iPads, then I would hope they could catch a break, regroup and get through the Still To Complete list before they have to tackle the Apple Car (Titan), should that be on anyone's radar. Personally, I would never buy an Apple Car, but I am sure there are a few people who would.

Just food for thought. I cannot fool myself into believing that Apple still wants to focus on the Mac, unless they have realized that there are some long term downward trends in the smartphone market and they are going to shore up the neglected parts of the business in order to make sure revenue continues to increase. increasing the ASP, even while selling less units seems to be working for them fairly well, although the iPhone XR also acknowledges that there is a ceiling to how much they can charge for the iPhone and still keep them selling.

Just my 2¢.

 

[fokmik]

1. iMac/iMac Pro - I honestly have no issues with the design as it is now, but I suspect Apple may want to align both with the display ID that they are working on now. So, 2019 and Cannon Lake may give us a truly elegant re-design.

I really think Apple should update this year the design and not next one..Apple should let 2019 for full attention of the Mac Pro, iphones and airpods 2 and its enough
This year since iphones are the same, it is imacs and ipads and mac minis turn to take full attention

 

[Zdigital2015]

1. iMac/iMac Pro - I honestly have no issues with the design as it is now, but I suspect Apple may want to align both with the display ID that they are working on now. So, 2019 and Cannon Lake may give us a truly elegant re-design.

I really think Apple should update this year the design and not next one..Apple should let 2019 for full attention of the Mac Pro, iphones and airpods 2 and its enough
This year since iphones are the same, it is imacs and ipads and mac minis turn to take full attention

If Apple holds back 9th Generation CPUs in this iMac refresh, then expect to see a redesigned iMac at WWDC 2019 along with the new Mac Pro and Apple Displays. I do not think Apple wants to reveal any new design language with an iMac this year that would inform users what the new displays might look like as well before the grand reveal of the new Mac Pro. This would give them a chance to release a new and redesigned iMac, iMac Pro, Mac Pro and Displays. MarCom will be all over that sort of presentation.

Besides, this Event has enough going on that an iMac redesign would not give Apple the maximum impact they would like to have.

 

[Icaras]

The problem with the chin is that it raises the screen height. The 27" iMac is already problematic for some people in terms of ergonomics. It would be less problematic if the screen height were a couple of inches lower.

They could always flip the chin so that it becomes a forehead....but how tacky would that look?

 

[iPadified]

It is my biggest issue with iMac - perfectly good screens are thrown out because of rapidly developing parts gets obsolete. Must hate it even more to say goodbye to a 5K screen.

They could have a mac mini slide into a base of screen - still a AIO in terms of cables. Such an approach would also keep the Mac mini updated automatically as the "computer base" is shared between two product lines.

Such a slide in base could also be working as an eGPU enclosure for MBP or even to drive the screens of the future MP.

 

[Black Diesel]

Is there a huge difference in performance between the 8th and 9th gen processors? Just wondering in case they update to 8th gen, how much are they giving up with not going to the 9th gen?

Would the 8th gen still be a significant speed bump compared to the current iMac?

 

[klatox]

Is there a huge difference in performance between the 8th and 9th gen processors? Just wondering in case they update to 8th gen, how much are they giving up with not going to the 9th gen?

Would the 8th gen still be a significant speed bump compared to the current iMac?

Not a huge difference. Here's a review.

 

[Black Diesel]

Not a huge difference. Here's a review.

Okay, so is there a big difference between existing iMac and 8th gen (assuming this is what we might get)?

 

[Zdigital2015]

It is my biggest issue with iMac - perfectly good screens are thrown out because of rapidly developing parts gets obsolete. Must hate it even more to say goodbye to a 5K screen.

They could have a mac mini slide into a base of screen - still a AIO in terms of cables. Such an approach would also keep the Mac mini updated automatically as the "computer base" is shared between two product lines.

Such a slide in base could also be working as an eGPU enclosure for MBP or even to drive the screens of the future MP.

The Retina 5K iMac debuted in October of 2014, so it is just now coming up on 4 years of age. Although the Core i5 version was no speed demon, both it and the Core i7 versions should serve users well for another few years.

If you are referring to the Mid 2009 - Late 2013 iMacs, all of those support Target Display Mode and can serve quite a bit longer for users. I have a Late 2013 that I will repurpose as a display once it is no longer usable on a daily basis for my computing needs. That being said, it runs at a pretty good clip and I can only envision replacing the PCIe storage with something larger and a more robust 2.5" SSD in place of the 3.5" HDD once the 3TB Fusion Drive finally gives up the ghost.

Once that is done, I should be able to use it for another few years as the GPU is supported by Metal and the CPU is a Core i7-4771 - not that fast in this day and age, but still fast enough.

Your angst seems a little premature, unless you think users are replacing a $1799-$5,299 iMac every couple of years, which I doubt highly that they are unless they are working in deadline sensitive industries. The only iMacs that are obsolete due to age are the Mid-2009 - Late-2011 and they can still run High Sierra for another 2-3 years while Apple continues security updates. Even if I was updating to a new iMac after next week, I can donate an iMac to an individual or a charity to use as opposed to throwing it out.
[doublepost=1540572548][/doublepost]

Okay, so is there a big difference between existing iMac and 8th gen (assuming this is what we might get)?

8th Gen is a decent update, however, I am hopeful that we will see the 27" iMac get 9th Gen CPUs as well.

I would consider 50%-100% more cores a significant jump, along with the ability to run single- and dual-core Turbos for sustained period of time at a faster clock speed.

While Kaby Lake CPUs are not slouches or junk, the extra cores and better turbos are most welcome. So is a soldered heatsink, better single-threaded performance, Spectre and Meltdown mitigations built-in, and native USB-C Gen 2 support.

 

[klatox]

Here’s another RX 590 rumor to stoke the fires

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-rx-590-performance-benchmarks,37984.html

 

[pappkristof]

Is there a huge difference in performance between the 8th and 9th gen processors? Just wondering in case they update to 8th gen, how much are they giving up with not going to the 9th gen?

Would the 8th gen still be a significant speed bump compared to the current iMac?

Yes there is. The 8th gen i7 has 6 cores while the 9th gen has 8 cores. And 9th gen gives you the option to upgrade to i9.
For the i5 the difference is minimal.