I know what you mean, but in the context of what I'd have to pay for a new machine, it's a small upgrade. If I could go from the Pro to the Ultra for, say, $500 or so, by replacing the processor myself (which I used to do all the time before I switched to Macs), I'd do it in a heartbeat. But with Apple I've only got the choice of an entire new (and expensive) machine. I understand why Apple has moved in this direction, and I like my Macs, but I'm hitting a real wall here and Apple does not offer a realistic solution. There ought to be some type of Mac Pro that fills this niche, but the current Mac Pro makes about as much sense as a Cybertruck.
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No new M3 Mac Studio. No new adult size iMac…. for YEARS.
- Thread starter Suzzzabelle
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My understanding was that the difference between M2 and M3 was...not negligible, but also not that dramatic. I'm trucking along very nicely with an M1 mini for just about anything I can think of, including gaming.
I built all my own computers for a couple decades. One of the reasons I switched to Apple a while back is because I no longer had the bandwidth in my life to do things like that. Running Windows/Linux boxes became too much of a PITA and it was no longer worth my time.
I loathe the idea of going back to Windows, but....if I were to do so, which Lenovo/HP lines should I look at? I've paid zero attention to the PC market since around 2008. The only thing I would care about with this machine would be performance with AI models running on it. For reference, my M2Pro Mini w/ 32gb RAM maxes out RAM and GPU immediately once I run certain software. I can't do anything else with the machine until the AI process stops running. There will always be a wall somewhere, but I want the wall to be a lot higher rn.
I came to MR specifically with this threads question in my mind. My old 27", 2017, iMac is pretty hopeless these days.
I write iOS Apps (& Android) for a living and AI is where it is at right now - for everything, the dev work and the upsell in the apps I write.
Mid 2025? You've got to be kidding me, especially after all the hoo-ha on Apple AI last month. Really?
So instead of dropping serious money on a Studio (Max, 64G DRAM, 2TB) I'm now thinking, just buy the Studio Display and a Mac Mini to keep me going until they do update the Studio. Sell the mini and upgrade. Not ideal and a bit of a waste of cash but not as big a waste as buying a new Studio only for Apple to pull a surprise and launch a new Studio weeks after I buy an old M2.
Are you reading this Apple? I do hope so...
I write iOS Apps (& Android) for a living and AI is where it is at right now - for everything, the dev work and the upsell in the apps I write.
Mid 2025? You've got to be kidding me, especially after all the hoo-ha on Apple AI last month. Really?
So instead of dropping serious money on a Studio (Max, 64G DRAM, 2TB) I'm now thinking, just buy the Studio Display and a Mac Mini to keep me going until they do update the Studio. Sell the mini and upgrade. Not ideal and a bit of a waste of cash but not as big a waste as buying a new Studio only for Apple to pull a surprise and launch a new Studio weeks after I buy an old M2.
Are you reading this Apple? I do hope so...
HP Z8 workstation and the Lenovo PX (aka P10).
Both are pure workstation machines with huge capacity to upgrade. Hefty PSUs as well. Both can go up to 4 GPUs if I remember right. They can both support massive amounts of RAM as well way outside what any silicon Apple machine is capable of. They can be very expensive if you option them right out, but go in at the middle of the range and upgrade parts of them later if needed. Because you can with those.
Windows 11 Pro for Workstations is a really good OS, it runs great on my 2019 Mac Pro, very fast and very stable.
I feel you. Apple is really missing the boat right now on professional AI. So many Mac developers are working in AI now and finding out that Apple does not offer what we need at all. It's not only the lack of suitable machines, but the inability to use popular libraries for training and graphics. You mentioned upgrading to a Mini. I have an M2 Pro w/ 32GB RAM and it takes Stable Diffusion 15 seconds to generate a 512x512 image from a text prompt. I run local LLMs via LM Studio, and while basic performance is acceptable, I hit the machine's limits too quickly (for me) when I start scaling up. If it were a PC, I'd do an incremental upgrade myself by adding RAM, which is the worst bottleneck rn. Every time I see more crap about the Apple Vision Pro I get a little more irritated by how badly Apple has dropped the ball. While everyone else was preparing for AI, Apple was trying to make cars and goggles. Now even Microsoft is eating their lunch. It's not a good situation for anyone who prefers using Macs, which I do, but the limitations are becoming unacceptable in the field that is the actual future: AI.
Thanks, I'll look into them. I feel like Apple is forcing me to go this route because there is just no reasonable upgrade option from a company that was once called Apple Computer. I can't wait a year for an M4 Studio, it's just not an option for me.
The Lenovo is a great choice but over the past few years HP has gone downhill. They have been stuffing their boxes with lots of low cost little stuff to save a few pennies on what was once a premium product. Connectors, Ports, Cabling, Power Supplies, mice, keyboards. Within a year you will find yourself chasing down and getting all sorts of little stuff fixed. It is a shame since HP use to be a premium supplier.
how that works for a 18h-5days long renders?
serious question.
before Mac Studio, I got always best Apple laptops even when in Intel days Laptops where way beyond desktops, but then I was tired of bad performance on sustained renders so I moved to MS. maybe at the worse time, as M1Max was same on laptops and desktops... but I can have the MS in a 3 days long render without hearing the fans even in this 35ºC Spanish summer and never trusted those 5 minutes renders youtubers love to do to show how well laptops perform...
There is absolutely a need and market for a larger consumer iMac. It can literally be the same computer as the smaller model but scaled up and people would buy it.
For example, both of my parents would do much better with an iMac, and they currently both have 27" Intel iMacs. They have been waiting, but their next purchase will simply be more expensive to get what they used to get with an all-in-one (which sadly seems to be all that Apple cares about lately).
The base 27" Retina 5K iMac was an incredible value (especially because it also came with a keyboard and mouse).
You can leave the Studio (or MacBooks) and Studio Display for Pro/Prosumers such as myself that does enjoy that the components are separated.
For example, both of my parents would do much better with an iMac, and they currently both have 27" Intel iMacs. They have been waiting, but their next purchase will simply be more expensive to get what they used to get with an all-in-one (which sadly seems to be all that Apple cares about lately).
The base 27" Retina 5K iMac was an incredible value (especially because it also came with a keyboard and mouse).
You can leave the Studio (or MacBooks) and Studio Display for Pro/Prosumers such as myself that does enjoy that the components are separated.
That seems a little long, Using SD 1.5? I've seen people are getting times under 30 seconds running SDXL at 1024x1024 on M2s and M3s without using Hyper/Turbo/TCD. I've been getting 53-55 seconds per image on an M3 doing a 3-step process (1024x1024 using SDXL Hyper/TCD + I2I @70% to 1600x1600 + 4x Upscale, final size 6400x6400) while running other work on the same machine. Much lower, of course, if I'm not doing the upscaling processes.
I've also been running local LLMs using the MSTY app, with good success on M3 Max, although it can experience some lag in response times if the model's huge or when I've got image generation running side-by-side with it so it's not a perfect experience.
That said, despite running some heavy local AI workflows, I'm definitely not happy about there not being a modern Ultra available right now to take greater advantage of AI. There's work out there to be done with it, and Apple's current high-end offerings are okay. But they could be doing a lot better.
Are you using ComfyUI? I'm using Automatic1111, and I've heard Comfy is faster. I'm seeing ~15 seconds with SD 1.5 and around 25 seconds with SDXL on a 512x512 image. This is without upscaling.
I’ll settle the debate for you. I don’t speak unless I know what I’m talking about, which puts me at odds with most of the internet, who only speak when they have no idea what they’re talking about.
How nice to meet you! I've been hoping to meet the smartest person on the internet for quite some time. Happy to have finally done it!
Apple has forgotten all the loyal customers that used the 27 inch iMac
Mac Studio is not a replacement for the iMac
It’s a different category. It’s not an A.I.O.
Only reason is that the iMac was not profitable enough. Not lack of sales
In any case …. Bad decision on Apples part
Mac Studio is not a replacement for the iMac
It’s a different category. It’s not an A.I.O.
Only reason is that the iMac was not profitable enough. Not lack of sales
In any case …. Bad decision on Apples part
I'm using Draw Things, you don't have workflows and such in it like Comfy & A1111, but you can use any models, loras, embeddings, controlnets you want. You can train loras too. The devs have done some serious optimization for Mac. It even runs on machines without a lot of memory. I've used it on my phone, which actually works if you're keeping resolutions reasonable and quantize your models (which you can do in-app). It's not as fast when running on iPhone or iPad, but it works.
The only thing I don't like is there's not a lot of community documentation on it, but there's a discord and people post plenty of information on benchmarking and settings, so that's probably the best resource on getting started with it if you give it a try.
Or, hook the mini up to your living room TV...?
Wait until you run across the consciousness of Steve Jobs, which was initially uploaded to a massive cluster of Xserves (Steve died in 2011 and the Xserve was discontinued in 2011, coincidence...?!?), but is now probably living within a massive cluster of ASi blade servers...
Sounds great, I'm going to give it a try. If I can get faster renders in Stable Diffusion, then I might be able to hold out for the new Studio after all. Thanks!
The 27" iMac appealed to a wide range of Apple customers. You got a great 5K display, decent general specs (including discrete GPU), and upgradeable RAM. It was pretty good value at the low end, and those wanting more capability could spec it up.
It was also the only option if you wanted a decent desktop Mac. The Mac Pro was hugely expensive, and the mini was limited. This explains some of the 'loyalty'.
The Studio is literally Apple's replacement for the 27" iMac. I suspect this primarily disappoints buyers of the previous base configuration, which was good value.
The higher end 27" iMacs got quite pricey, plus stuffing a powerful CPU and GPU in the back of the screen was an issue for heat, noise and reliability. Those buyers are unquestionably better off with a Studio + 5K (or 4K) screen. It also means they can upgrade their computer whilst keeping an expensive screen.
From Apple's point of view, it also meant they could discontinue the iMac Pro (always a bit of a stopgap). And in the future, likely the Mac Pro too.
If that's true, you’re essentially answering your own question.
Bad business decision, or just one you're disappointed with (I sympathise, btw)?
Apple have positioned the current 24" iMac to replace all 21" iMacs and the base 27" iMac. Any 27" iMac with an M3 would need to be more expensive than the 27" ASD. Would you be interested in a base M3 27" iMac for $2000? Or an M3 Pro 27" for $2800?