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No Virus Software

Aduntu said:
I don't need to try to find some "article" to prove that Mac viruses exists. Apple has already done that, in multiple places.
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So you should be able to name one of the viruses, right? It would be so easy for you to win this argument, just go to one of the multiple places you claim Apple has identified Mac viruses, and give us one of the names. It's so easy for you.

Might it be because you are 100% wrong? Also, Norton Antivirus for the Mac existing means absolutely nothing. They would write antivirus software for toasters if they thought it would sell well.

So again, we're waiting. Waiting for you to declare yourself #1 winner, because you posted a couple meaningless links. I suspect you will say "I've given all the evidence I need, I'm not going to bother arguing with you idiots anymore" or something like that. Take the easy way out, instead of just admitting you are wrong.
 
synagence said:
Windows PC's = 80-90% worldwide PC use ... therefore its a clear target ... lots of potential
Mac OSX = some % of the remainder (not all since there is linux etc) so what value can be had - a lot less
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This old argument? If OS X has 10% market share, why do they have 0% malware share? Wouldn't it make sense for it to linearly scale? Windows: 90% market share, 100% malware market share. Funny how that is.

So, if all the profit comes from writing malware for Windows, why does OS X malware even exist (even though it doesn't)? The two wrong arguments contradict themselves quite nicely.
 
santaliqueur said:
This old argument? If OS X has 10% market share, why do they have 0% malware share? Wouldn't it make sense for it to linearly scale? Windows: 90% market share, 100% malware market share. Funny how that is.

So, if all the profit comes from writing malware for Windows, why does OS X malware even exist (even though it doesn't)? The two wrong arguments contradict themselves quite nicely.
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We don't have 0% of the malware share... Famously last year there were worm infected torrents of iWork09 and Photoshop CS4 and there are others...

The reason it doesn't scale linearly is down to the fact that there are exceedingly mature hacking toolkits etc and there is just an established resource pool for Windows.

One day the Mac will be hit with a massive worm/virus its only a matter of time ... and then maybe if its a huge success for the bad-guys the malware footprint will grow overnight ... but until then, 'That old argument' stands true ... there is simply more value on focussing on windows to get into the vast majority of corporate networks/peoples desktops for huge returns
 
synagence said:
We don't have 0% of the malware share... Famously last year there were worm infected torrents of iWork09 and Photoshop CS4 and there are others...

The reason it doesn't scale linearly is down to the fact that there are exceedingly mature hacking toolkits etc and there is just an established resource pool for Windows.

One day the Mac will be hit with a massive worm/virus its only a matter of time ... and then maybe if its a huge success for the bad-guys the malware footprint will grow overnight ... but until then, 'That old argument' stands true ... there is simply more value on focussing on windows to get into the vast majority of corporate networks/peoples desktops for huge returns
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So, OS X has probably 1/1000th of 1% of the malware share? I call that 0%.

Listing 2 applications that were attacked (and patched) does not make a great deal of difference.

I've been hearing you guys say "one day you will be hit. One day, one day...." Funny how that day hasn't arrived. It's easy to win an argument when your time frame extends to infinity.

If there is so much more value in Windows, why would the very small number of exploits for OS X even exist in the first place? Were they written by people who had no business sense? It takes a lot of work to write some exploits. I'd love to know why you think those people chose to write for OS X if the cash windfall is with Windows.

It would only scale linearly if the two operating systems were identically secure, which is not only untrue, but very unlikely. How difficult is it to believe that OS X is inherently more secure than Windows?

AJsAWiz said:
Okay, let me have a shot at this . . . .
Why are there no floppy drives for the iPad :confused:
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Get the camera connection kit, hook up a USB floppy drive! :p
 
My brain hurts from reading this thread.

The reason anti-virus software exists for OS X is so that Mac users cannot inadvertently pass a virus to their Windows using friends. That is all. Simple. Part of being a good net citizen.

The reason Apple recommends it is for two reasons - the same as stated above - and liability. They just cannot say that there are no viruses - even if it is true - because as soon as there is one a lawyer somewhere will attack them mercilessly.

I do not run AV software on my Macs. There is no need for it on a non-jailbroken iphone or iPad. There are no viruses in the wild for OS X. There are proof of concept viruses and there are drive exploits. There is malware that you can get by being stupid, but no software will protect you against stupidity.
 
emaja said:
My brain hurts from reading this thread.

The reason anti-virus software exists for OS X is so that Mac users cannot inadvertently pass a virus to their Windows using friends. That is all. Simple. Part of being a good net citizen.

The reason Apple recommends it is for two reasons - the same as stated above - and liability. They just cannot say that there are no viruses - even if it is true - because as soon as there is one a lawyer somewhere will attack them mercilessly.

I do not run AV software on my Macs. There is no need for it on a non-jailbroken iphone or iPad. There are no viruses in the wild for OS X. There are proof of concept viruses and there are drive exploits. There is malware that you can get by being stupid, but no software will protect you against stupidity.
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This.

It's a shame some people don't have the capacity for logic and reason necessary to see the truth of the matter as clearly as this person laid it out.
 
santaliqueur said:
This old argument? If OS X has 10% market share, why do they have 0% malware share? Wouldn't it make sense for it to linearly scale? Windows: 90% market share, 100% malware market share. Funny how that is.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't scale linearly. There is a combination of multiple effects:

1. With only 10% market share vs. 90% Windows, a Mac virus that infects the same percentage of computers would have only a tenth of the value of an equivalent Windows virus.

2. With only 10% market share, a virus finds it much harder to spread. So two equally virulent viruses would spread much better on Windows than on Macs. A virus writer would have to create a much "better" virus to infect the same percentage of Macs - and still would only have a tenth of the infected machines!

3. As a result, virus writers are much less interested in Macs. So there are fewer virus writers, and since these people tend to learn from each other as in every other "profession", there is less knowledge to spread. Result: Nobody has the knowledge necessary to create successful Mac viruses.
 
emaja said:
My brain hurts from reading this thread.

The reason anti-virus software exists for OS X is so that Mac users cannot inadvertently pass a virus to their Windows using friends. That is all. Simple. Part of being a good net citizen.

The reason Apple recommends it is for two reasons - the same as stated above - and liability. They just cannot say that there are no viruses - even if it is true - because as soon as there is one a lawyer somewhere will attack them mercilessly.
Click to expand...

GamecockMac said:
This.

It's a shame some people don't have the capacity for logic and reason necessary to see the truth of the matter as clearly as this person laid it out.
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Yes it is a shame, seeing how you support this theory could you please explain how a Windows executable will run on Mac OS X?

Apple can just say nothing about viruses but chose not to.
 
Battlestar said:
Yes it is a shame, seeing how you support this theory could you please explain how a Windows executable will run on Mac OS X?

Apple can just say nothing about viruses but chose not to.
Click to expand...

I never claimed that a Windows executable could run in OS X. I simply said you could pass an infected file along.

Apple chose to suggest AV software as a CYA move. It is an unfortunate necessity in our overly litigious society.
 
In a way you can say that a jailbreak is a virus. It gets to the core of the secured, non jailbreaked machine and circumvent security measures allowing code to be executed. Of course, most people are jailbreaking willingly, trusting the jailbreak provider completely. But what if the jailbreak file you used has some dark code in it?

What if, at the same time youmjailbreak your iPad or iPhone, it installs some malicious software. Would you know that? Would that not be a virus, root kit, malware?

Think about it...
 
gnasher729 said:
No, it doesn't scale linearly. There is a combination of multiple effects:

1. With only 10% market share vs. 90% Windows, a Mac virus that infects the same percentage of computers would have only a tenth of the value of an equivalent Windows virus.

2. With only 10% market share, a virus finds it much harder to spread. So two equally virulent viruses would spread much better on Windows than on Macs. A virus writer would have to create a much "better" virus to infect the same percentage of Macs - and still would only have a tenth of the infected machines!

3. As a result, virus writers are much less interested in Macs. So there are fewer virus writers, and since these people tend to learn from each other as in every other "profession", there is less knowledge to spread. Result: Nobody has the knowledge necessary to create successful Mac viruses.
Click to expand...

This all sounds nice, but none of it is based in fact. Not that what you are saying is automatically false (though I disagree with you). Your ideas about why Windows has so many more exploits are just that, ideas. You can't back up anything you say, because there are no facts supporting your ideas, it's just how you picture everything happening. Just because a theory sounds nice, doesn't mean it really works like that.

Again, is it so hard to believe Windows is less secure than OS X/Linux?
 
spammerhamster said:
In a way you can say that a jailbreak is a virus.
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In a way that would be totally incorrect, yes you could say that.

A virus is code that replicates itself and spreads. Users CHOOSE to jailbreak a device. In fact, jailbreaking is nearly as far away as you can get from a virus, comparing the two.
 
in the event you share files with a pc. as some do with mac, virus software wouldn't be that bad on an iPad. There is software like goodreader, etc.. You can't get a virus on an iPad but technically you can transmit one to a windows machine.
 
santaliqueur said:
In a way that would be totally incorrect, yes you could say that.

A virus is code that replicates itself and spreads. Users CHOOSE to jailbreak a device. In fact, jailbreaking is nearly as far away as you can get from a virus, comparing the two.
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Yes, just like how windows users choose to click on that celebnaked.exe, iloveyou.gif.exe. What happens afterwards is a whole can of worms. People choose to jailbreak, but what if the jailbreak is just a trap for you.
Just like those celebnaked.exe...

It opens up your iPad and start sending your private info around, sending your contacts an email about how to jailbreak their ipad's? It haven't happened yet (probably), but there certainly is a chance.

And even if the jailbreak's fine, what about all those apps you install afterwards?
 
spammerhamster said:
Yes, just like how windows users choose to click on that celebnaked.exe, iloveyou.gif.exe.
Click to expand...
For the record, most virus attacks don't originate from someone willfully downloading and running a malicious executable file, which is what would have to take place for malware to spread on a *nix-based system like the Mac OS.
 
spammerhamster said:
Yes, just like how windows users choose to click on that celebnaked.exe, iloveyou.gif.exe. What happens afterwards is a whole can of worms. People choose to jailbreak, but what if the jailbreak is just a trap for you.
Just like those celebnaked.exe...

It opens up your iPad and start sending your private info around, sending your contacts an email about how to jailbreak their ipad's? It haven't happened yet (probably), but there certainly is a chance.

And even if the jailbreak's fine, what about all those apps you install afterwards?
Click to expand...

I would class a jailbreak that also installed malicious software on your iPad/iPhone as a Trojan Horse and not as a Virus. From the end-users perspective the difference is pretty unimportant though as they still end up with software on their device that does something that they don't want.

Unfortunately the best way to protect against Trojan Horses is to be a smart user. If you want to jailbreak you have to put the effort in to find out what works, what other people are using and where the safest place to download is.
 
someguy said:
For the record, most virus attacks don't originate from someone willfully downloading and running a malicious executable file, which is what would have to take place for malware to spread on a *nix-based system like the Mac OS.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter, my point is: jailbreaks are possible due to a vulnerability of the os. It is now used for the good, but it could be used for the bad too. Apple OS is not invulnerable as some in this thread suggests. Same for *nix.
 
spammerhamster said:
It doesn't matter, my point is: jailbreaks are possible due to a vulnerability of the os. It is now used for the good, but it could be used for the bad too. Apple OS is not invulnerable as some in this thread suggests. Same for *nix.
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Anything can happen. Interesting, though, that it doesn't, despite that surprising number of anti-Apple know-it-alls that plague the Internet. :)
 
Aduntu said:
For every one of you brilliant individuals claiming that viruses do not exist on macs, please explain why Apple sells Norton antivirus software.....for macs.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/H1076LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA1Mw&mco=MTc2NzgyOTM
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Two things:

1) Why are we talking about viruses on Macs when the original post was about iPhone OS? A very VERY different beast indeed and one that's vastly harder to attack than OS X?

2) Norton on the mac largely exists to prevent the spread of Windows viruses. We have a fair number of user-owned macs on our network and the recommendation from central services is that they consider anti-virus software for their macs if they have certain use-cases or have e-mail addresses that don't go through our own server and the raft of AV checks we perform on every message. It's nothing to do with protecting OS X and is there purely as a recommendation to avoid spreading the usual Windows-targeted crap that seems to infest every damn memory stick and e-mail in the world at this point (at least it feels like that on the bad days).

As for OS X and viruses... I think this article is worth a read:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10331147-263.html

Do viruses, malware etc exist for OS X? Yep, they do. Very few of them but they exist. Has there EVER been a widespread infection or serious issue as a result of such a beast running loose in the wild? No. Not a single instance.
 
emaja said:
I never claimed that a Windows executable could run in OS X. I simply said you could pass an infected file along.

Apple chose to suggest AV software as a CYA move. It is an unfortunate necessity in our overly litigious society.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that OS X virus software was written to examine and defeat code written for Windows?
 
smithrh said:
Curious - why do you think you need Anti-Virus software?

Forget about the app store for the moment, as it's not actually germane here.

What use would you have for such software?
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Germane? What does Jermaine Jackson have to do with the iPad?

Is Jermaine Jackson germane to this thread?
 
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