NVMe with ST-NGFF2013-C; Vega Internal GPU; Mac Pro 2013 (6,1)

[bradl001]

Has anyone gotten a chance to test the PM981? These are the newest boards and they use the Samsung Phoenix controller. A review at Tom's hardware said:

"the PM981 shrinks the gap between Intel's 900P Optane and normal NAND-based SSDs; we recorded a 3x increase over the 960 EVO with an 80% sequential read mixture at QD2."
​

Is there any headroom left on the MacPro6,1 PCI-e bus to accomodate more performance or am I wasting money getting the "latest and greatest"?

EDIT: I ask because the PM981 seems to be a little cheaper than the 960 Pro but I do wonder about the controller and ability to update firmware.

 

[CodeJingle]

Has anyone gotten a chance to test the PM981? These are the newest boards and they use the Samsung Phoenix controller. A review at Tom's hardware said:

"the PM981 shrinks the gap between Intel's 900P Optane and normal NAND-based SSDs; we recorded a 3x increase over the 960 EVO with an 80% sequential read mixture at QD2."
​

Is there any headroom left on the MacPro6,1 PCI-e bus to accomodate more performance or am I wasting money getting the "latest and greatest"?

mac pro 6,1 is bandwidth-constrained on the samsung nvme 960 pro so anything better than that will have no effect to increase the throughput of sequential access. though for limiting the initial latency of random access this has less to do with PCIe and will still improve with a better drive.

 

[CodeJingle]

An attempt to document pinout and upgrade GPU in Mac Pro 2013 is a more interesting project considering latest news

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/05/apples-revamped-mac-pro-to-launch-in-2019/

 

[AidenShaw]

An attempt to document pinout and upgrade GPU in Mac Pro 2013 is a more interesting project considering latest news

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/05/apples-revamped-mac-pro-to-launch-in-2019/

Or, it could make it less relevant if it triggers a mass movement by Mac Pro users to Windows and Linux.

Just conjecture - but if too many people decide to leave Apple OSX a project to enhance the trash can loses its allure.

 

[CodeJingle]

Or, it could make it less relevant if it triggers a mass movement by Mac Pro users to Windows and Linux.

Yeah but the only people left who didn't sell out for an iMac Pro are the hardest of the hardcore. I'm talking to those guys. Also, engineers whose day job require use of multiple operating systems so it isn't a question of 'moving' from or to a specific one (I use macOS and Windows on a daily basis). Plus, who waits five years but six is too much? The mass exit probably has already happened, between now and next year the exit rate is a trickle.

In terms of statistical significance, there isn't anyone left. Like a handful maybe. Probably less than the margin of error. Or similarly, 'Trace amounts of hardcore macOS users detected.'

 

[dwdrummer959]

For me, it's just a question of "Is this possible?" Hopefully the answer is yes and we'll have something cool to share, but if not, the question will at least have been answered. I'll have learned a lot too.

 

[Fleent]

The first post of this thread has extensive instructions. You might check in a different computer to make sure the nvme is not DOA. If using those instructions with a model of adapter and model of nvme that are both known good and not doa then i have no idea. Maybe in that case someone else who knows will reply.

I wrote to the Sintech support team but didn't receive any response. So, I returned this Samsung 960 pro to Amazon, and I’ll order the OWC Aura Pro X 1TB SSD.

 

[CodeJingle]

I wrote to the Sintech support team but didn't receive any response. So, I returned this Samsung 960 pro to Amazon, and I’ll order the OWC Aura Pro X 1TB SSD.

Angelshark is probably a better option than the previous generation OWC. I'm sorry the adapter did not work for you. Although PC Parts 239 no longer sells their adapter (which is the one I use) I did sand down the board and document the layers it may be possible in the future to build our own adapter. But not in time for your immediate needs.

 

[MarkJames68]

Angelshark is probably a better option than the previous generation OWC. I'm sorry the adapter did not work for you. Although PC Parts 239 no longer sells their adapter (which is the one I use) I did sand down the board and document the layers it may be possible in the future to build our own adapter. But not in time for your immediate needs.

That would be classic - copying the Chinese for a change.

I just wish Angelshark charged a reasonable amount. $200 is reasonable. $500 is not.

 

[CodeJingle]

just about ready to go here. double check all the connections. need to manually hold the cpu heat-sink in place for the boot test. figure out where the lucking magnet sensor is for the interlock. then hope it turns on. sorry i didn't record the process for extending the power supply wires. i was in a hurry i was supposed to leave several hours earlier. i was in a state of constant panic the entire time. wasn't the best time for video.

 

[CodeJingle]

The GPU heat-sinks are in the way to mount the CPU heat-sink. I need to raise up the logic board, which also requires raising up nearly the entire rest of the assembly except the GPUs which will drape down to vertical instead of horizontal. Then there will be room to mount the CPU heat-sink which I still don't know exactly how I will mount once I make room for it.

I need a cylinder shape underneath to raise the logic board, so it was either paper towel roll or PVC tubing, I chose PVC tubing. I'll have to cut up the larger tube to size.

 

[CodeJingle]

The machine energized and bypassed interlock with magnet but wouldn't turn on. I got all green lights on the diagnostic leds. Looks like I have to rebuild the flex cable embedded in the I/O Panel which is where the 'on' button is (because otherwise I don't currently have a working 'on' button). Unless anyone knows an easier way to turn on the Mac Pro 2013 if it doesn't have an 'on' button?

 

[CodeJingle]

Anyone know a way to turn on Mac Pro 2013 without the power button, I mean without the I/O flex board that includes the button? Something on one of the other boards to short?

So I sanded down my damaged I/O panel flex board and eyeball it how hard to repair. I do have 32 gauge wire but these lines are so close. I'll have to come back tonight or the morning to solder under the scope.

 

[CodeJingle]

The part I need to replace if I can't repair it is 661-7541 or the 'I/O Wall' which contains embedded inside a flex board which contains all of the LEDs and lighting circuitry and motion sensor so that the entire panel lights up when you jostle it. It also contains the on/off button for the entire computer and a light mounted on the button so you know when the computer is on. iFixit doesn't cover the flex board properly in their teardown.

It is around $150 if anyone has one for cheaper or just 'lying around' lol let me know.

http://www.macpartsonline.com/661-7541-apple-i-o-wall-for-mac-pro-late-2013-a1481.html

For everything else I am getting all green lights no red lights on the onboard internal diagnostics. So I'm confident this inside-out Mac Pro freak show will turn on if I fix or replace this one part.

 

[CodeJingle]

My most successful failure to fully boot (yesterday). I coerce a fellow dayjob colleague into providing me with a third arm.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jl60skbdkdj804g/20180406_161156.mp4?dl=0

 

[CodeJingle]

There are a bunch of magnetic switches or relays. Just like the one that needs to be bypassed when the outer case shell is removed (there is a tiny magnet embedded in the shell that bypasses it when the shell is fully in place).

For example I figured out the magnet switch on the logic board disables the secondary GPU without having to detach the flex cable. There may be more or less than what is pictured, I'm mostly guessing based on the two I know about and what else on the boards like like that. Except for the main bypass none of these are documented.

magnetic switch to disable secondary gpu


io board magnet switches including for the main power (to the right of the power switch, twice to the right of the hdmi port)

 

[Hackentosh]

I've ordered one of these to see if it's more reliable than the Syntec adapters.. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/253380251897 Will report back once tested.

 

[slypete]

I've ordered one of these to see if it's more reliable than the Syntec adapters.. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/253380251897 Will report back once tested.

The long black sintech adapter (ST-NGFF2013-C) coupled with the 960 Pro is working absolutely perfectly in my Mac Pro. Is this the Sintech adapter you're using? What issues are you having?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CWWAENG/

 

[Hackentosh]

The long black sintech adapter (ST-NGFF2013-C) coupled with the 960 Pro is working absolutely perfectly in my Mac Pro. Is this the Sintech adapter you're using? What issues are you having?

This is the last two adapters I got from Sintech. I can see the drive, format the drive, install High Sierra but around every 2nd boot, I get a flashing question mark folder. I have to hard shut-down and then usually on reboot it will see the drive and boot. Once it's booted everything seems fine. So it's just in the initial boot up that sometimes it won't detect the drive.

 

[bradl001]

@Hackentosh -- I just got the same exact connector and noted it's PCB looked different than other Sintech photos in this thread.

Does anyone know what the 3 sets of (jumper?) pads on the back side do?

That said, I'm still looking for a drive. Seems like I should stick with a Samsung 960 Pro (Evo?) and get a ST-NGFF2013-C as backup. Any good ones with 4K support?

 

[CodeJingle]

Does anyone know what the 3 sets of (jumper?) pads on the back side do?

Any good ones with 4K support?

Pic with circles for asking what 'pads' do?

960 Pro is fast enough for 4k on Mac Pro 2013 according to black magic speed test, even on the slowest CPU the 2.7 ghz 12 core. Not sure what other internal NVMe do 4k.

Check the history of the thread for any screenshots of throughput test results. The speed actually varies quasi-linearly with CPU speed so a 2.7 ghz 12 core will have the same hard drive at up to 20% slower than testing on a 3.3 ghz 8 core (for example).

 

[bradl001]

Sorry about the lack of clarity. I was referring to @Hackentosh's pictures in post #419. Picture is here. [I'd update my pictures but I haven't pulled them off my phone.]

My outside (long shot) thought is the possibility of moving the drive to another computer.

I'd go for a cheaper/reliable 1TB for the MacPro6,1 since I now know of the bus limitations. That said, is an Evo (more or less) on par with a Pro in a MacPro6,1?

 

[CodeJingle]

So in attempting to repair the I/O Wall's flex board I broke it even more. It is beyond repair at this point. Though I did learn about the undocumented magnet switches or relays (by undocumented I mean not covered by the best documentation you can get outside of being an internal Apple employee).

My best route at this point is to sand down the I/O Board. I can do it in one day if I don't mind tearing up the board in the process mostly with metal files and be left with swiss cheese documentation of the layers. I am more interested in pristine documentation of the CPU Riser Card so I can pick and choose my battles here.

If in the process of sanding down I figure out a way to bypass the I/O Wall to fully turn on the Mac Pro 2013 without having to press the power button then I'll save myself 12 days and $150.
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Picture is here.

That said, is an Evo (more or less) on par with a Pro in a MacPro6,1?

That looks like test points so yeah that would qualify as a form of 'jumpers'.

I looked back in the thread and yes someone got an Evo to pass the 4k read & write test on a Mac Pro. Whether just barely or not I don't know. So Evo is in the same ballpark as Pro. Maybe the biggest difference is only Pro comes in the 2 TB model.
[doublepost=1523210706][/doublepost]I have someone actually voluntarily helping me now, like with the actual work (except the sanding part). Like we are working together. Which is great, I was hoping for a community effort like for the NVMe stuff. Though their availability right now is at least as restricted as mine, maybe more.

Better than a bunch of people inquiring about helping out financially and then sitting on that decision indefinitely and never actually helping. Invest into a black hole and never get your money back, all for intellectual property donated to the community so nothing to keep for yourself. The perfect investment opportunity lol! At least you'll know what you're getting into before you contact me.

 

[CodeJingle]

I can update the first post of the thread again with more or different adapters, and drop the PC Parts adapter as it is no longer available. I'll do that over the next several days.

I should also update the thread name to reflect it's dual-purposed nature, but only if I can turn my computer back on. Need a certain amount of progress before adding 'GPU Pinout' to the thread name.
[doublepost=1523213531][/doublepost]

I would imagine the chipset is still in the middle of some of this....

Yeah there are some important clocks whose origin is the logic board not the CPU. And more I'm sure. So one way or another you were right.

 

[bradl001]

Pic with circles for asking what 'pads' do?

960 Pro is fast enough for 4k on Mac Pro 2013 according to black magic speed test, even on the slowest CPU the 2.7 ghz 12 core. Not sure what other internal NVMe do 4k.

Check the history of the thread for any screenshots of throughput test results. The speed actually varies quasi-linearly with CPU speed so a 2.7 ghz 12 core will have the same hard drive at up to 20% slower than testing on a 3.3 ghz 8 core (for example).

Interesting about the correlation with the CPU speed.

Also good to know (but surprised) about the lack of 4k NVMe. Seems it doesn't matter for these machines.