Obscene iPad Pro pricing

[jumpingjackflash]

So what do you call a person who uses an iPad for creating, storing and organizing information the way it's done on an iPad?

And those people represent a what percentage of all iPad users? My guess is somewhere between 1-10%.

Im not saying it can’t be done. Im only questioning the need for iPad Pro because there is a better products for a such activity.

 

[tromboneaholic]

And those people represent a what percentage of all iPad users? My guess is somewhere between 1-10%.

Im not saying it can’t be done. Im only questioning the need for iPad Pro because there is a better products for a such activity.

I would suggest that with the exception of people who jailbreak the device, 100% of iPad users create and organize information on their iPad the way it's done on an iPad.

It seems like you're saying that the only way a "pro" works is how it's done on a traditional computer.

I see the iPad continue to challenge that idea. I'm personally excited by new apps that bring a fresh approach that works on the iPad. Even old apps like photoshop, used by pros all the time, are bringing a new approach that takes advantage of what the iPad has to offer.

The idea that an iPad workflow has to be the same as a laptop workflow doesn't feel like progress to me.

 

[zhenya]

I would suggest that with the exception of people who jailbreak the device, 100% of iPad users create and organize information on their iPad the way it's done on an iPad.

It seems like you're saying that the only way a "pro" works is how it's done on a traditional computer.

I see the iPad continue to challenge that idea. I'm personally excited by new apps that bring a fresh approach that works on the iPad. Even old apps like photoshop, used by pros all the time, are bringing a new approach that takes advantage of what the iPad has to offer.

The idea that an iPad workflow has to be the same as a laptop workflow doesn't feel like progress to me.

Sometimes there is no point in reinventing a perfectly functional tool. The ‘fresh approach’ that iOS brings to file management means that rather than having a consistent, system-wide file management system where compatibility is a given, every app must explicitly build in support for every possible cloud storage provider that any user might ever want to use. Every storage app has a slightly different user interface and different capabilities. Some allow for offline sync. Some do not. Some require different tiers of subscription to allow for it. Some allow individual files only. Some allow you to open your files directly from the storage app to the working app and save directly back. Some require that you go to the working app first and open from their user interface (again, probably different than any other).

This is completely ignoring the hoops one must jump through if they want to say, import files from a camera directly to a program like Lightroom.

I’m all for a fresh approach when it actually changes things for the better, but it’s really hard to find an objective way of justifying the mess they’ve made of things here.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Sometimes there is no point in reinventing a perfectly functional tool. The ‘fresh approach’ that iOS brings to file management means that rather than having a consistent, system-wide file management system where compatibility is a given, every app must explicitly build in support for every possible cloud storage provider that any user might ever want to use. Every storage app has a slightly different user interface and different capabilities. Some allow for offline sync. Some do not. Some require different tiers of subscription to allow for it. Some allow individual files only. Some allow you to open your files directly from the storage app to the working app and save directly back. Some require that you go to the working app first and open from their user interface (again, probably different than any other).

This is completely ignoring the hoops one must jump through if they want to say, import files from a camera directly to a program like Lightroom.

I’m all for a fresh approach when it actually changes things for the better, but it’s really hard to find an objective way of justifying the mess they’ve made of things here.

Maybe it's different workflows, or that I don't need to use 10 different apps with different experiences (which does sound frustrating). Most of the apps I use let me save to iCloud Drive where I have the ability to copy or move files around. I drop a file into my iCloud Drive folder on my iMac, and I can work on it later on my iPad as long as I have internet.

As I was reading your post, it seemed to me that a lot of those concerns could be solved if Apple required all the developers to support iCloud Drive.

 

[zhenya]

Maybe it's different workflows, or that I don't need to use 10 different apps with different experiences (which does sound frustrating). Most of the apps I use let me save to iCloud Drive where I have the ability to copy or move files around. I drop a file into my iCloud Drive folder on my iMac, and I can work on it later on my iPad as long as I have internet.

As I was reading your post, it seemed to me that a lot of those concerns could be solved if Apple required all the developers to support iCloud Drive.

You don’t have to use 10 different providers to run up against the issue - you just have to use one that isn’t supported by an app you’d like to use. Pretty much if you don’t use iCloud or Dropbox you are going to run up against this issue sooner than later. IMO it’s a major design flaw with current builds of iOS. You shouldn’t leave such a fundamental part of the device to rely on support by individual app developers.

In my case I do personally have to interact with several different cloud apps because that’s the nature of modern cross-company collaborative work. Everyone has their own app of choice, and if you want to work with other people, you are going to have to use different services.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

By the way, usually when a product inserts a letters ”Pro” into its name, in reality it is not so Pro device. It applies really well in many categories from tools to electronics. Real Pro tools don’t usually make a name for oneself. They just work.

Apple is currently putting too much effort for this trying to be a pro-thing. They should make a iPad that simply is pro if you choose so. Why fraqmentize iPad into a regular and pro category anyways? There should be only one iPad category IMHO.

 

[DNichter]

Seriously, some of the ideas expressed seem like someone may be an uber-pro-Apple AI as oppose to a human expessing the truth.

Apple has had nearly a decade to differentiate the ipad from a phone, and now we speak of the next 3-5 years...?

We could have had a true hybrid OS 5 years ago, if Timmy was not driving the boat, If Mr Cook cared about users as opposed to shareholders...catering to shareholders over actual users will not be successful in the long term.

If Apple does not turn the ship NOW they may not be relevant in 3-5 years.
[doublepost=1543726959][/doublepost]
No, just no.
[doublepost=1543727076][/doublepost]
Neo-Apple always caters to those with money to burn and leisure time to waste.

Or I’m someone who isn’t held back by the old dying ways of computing and is willing to adopt new ideas and be better suited for the future.
[doublepost=1543762805][/doublepost]

I think that vast majority of ”Real Pros” don’t even consider Pad Pro a ”Pro” device. Im a ”non pro-consumer” and I haven’t still realized why iPad pro even exists. There is simply no need for it IMHO.

Not everyone needs to do operational tasks for their work. The need for a Pro iPad is the same difference between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. More power and features for those who need them. People should stop trying to force people into groups by what devices they use. Use the best tool for the job. For some, that’s a Mac Pro, for some it’s an iPad.

 

[Cashmonee]

Yep. Only anecdotal. Like the handful of bent iPads reported. Some pics from tech geeks who threw them in backpacks because apparently tech geeks don't know any better about how to handle $1000+ devices, but there you have it.

You're right. I cannot believe people have the gall to put a portable device in a bag!!! Next thing you know, they will expect their keyboards to work when they touch the keys! Animals!

 

[Mystro]

The word “Pro” is what Apple chose to call its top tier product. They could have easily called it the “iPad Platinum” or whatever. I think many are taking the “Pro” name way too literal. It’s just a tool. The true “profesional” in their field will know what tool they need. I am both iOS and Android centric. Why anyone would pledge allegiance to any one format is only limiting their potential. A Porsche and Ferrari in the garage is the correct answer.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

People should stop trying to force people into groups by what devices they use. Use the best tool for the job.

So where is the option for 12.9” or 11” non pro iPads then? With your logic Apple is currently pushing people into a Pro category when they just want to use regular 12.9” model.

Is Apple afraid to release regular 12.9” and 11” models because it would reveal the real demand for the pro-versions?

 

[Mystro]

So where is the option for 12.9” or 11” non pro iPads then? With your logic Apple is currently pushing people into a Pro category when they just want to use regular 12.9” model.

Is Apple afraid to release regular 12.9” and 11” models because it would reveal the real demand for the pro-versions?

Never happen due to market share redundancy. Apple owns the tablet market and has nothing to fear from anyone but straying from their own formula that got them to where they are. That fear also keeps Apple a bit too conservative for many. Until Samsung has a true IPad competitor, like they do with their Galaxy Note platforms with phones, Apple will continue to dominate the tablet category and write their own rules. My humble opinion is Apple needs to separate their iOS phone platform and have a separate iOS for the iPad Pro to take it to the next level. The iPad has to morph up from just a big iPhone. Only a legitimate iPad competitor from Samsung will force their hand to do this. The Surface Pro is still just a bastardized laptop. The A12X is a monster, imagine if Apple had a iPad specific iOS to really utilize its power.

 

[digitalcuriosity]

I notice Apples stock dropped 20% in November I wonder if the prices of the new X phones caused a loss of sales was contribution to this drop.
So I am waiting to see how Apples stock handles the new 2018 iPadPro pricing.
As we have seen other Mfg.s have brought both phones and tablets out with lower prices for one example Samsung.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Never happen due to market share redundancy. Apple owns the tablet market and has nothing to fear from anyone but straying from their own formula that got them to where they are. That fear also keeps Apple a bit too conservative for many. Until Samsung has a true IPad competitor, like they do with their Galaxy Note platforms with phones, Apple will continue to dominate the tablet category.

You’re right that Apple dominates the tablet market. They still have some room for errors, which I believe the Pro-category is.

Im still holding buying a 12.9” iPad because im not willing to get a Pro category product with features that I dont really need.

 

[DNichter]

So where is the option for 12.9” or 11” non pro iPads then? With your logic Apple is currently pushing people into a Pro category when they just want to use regular 12.9” model.

Is Apple afraid to release regular 12.9” and 11” models because it would reveal the real demand for the pro-versions?

What you quoted me has nothing to do with your question. That was in response to people trying to say what an iPad can and cannot be used for. It ultimately doesn’t matter what device they use and they should use the best tool for the task at hand.

I have no idea how to answer your question. You would have to ask Apple. Right now they see the larger models as better suited for artists, designers, photography, video, and other use cases. Maybe they make a large iPad for non Pro’s, maybe they don’t.

 

[richpjr]

Or I’m someone who isn’t held back by the old dying ways of computing and is willing to adopt new ideas and be better suited for the future.

Classic choice-supportive bias. If it had anything to do with clinging to old ways while a new, better way of doing things was available, than this would definitely be worth debating. But there are basic features missing from iOS that force many people to alter their work flow to something much slower and clunkier than these use now. You are lucky if your workflow can fit into the limitations of iOS. Others cannot and are forced to use other devices, though the iPad hardware is certainly powerful enough - that is what frustrates people.

Needing better multi-tasking, full access to external storage, multi-user support and especially working on cross platform, collaborative work with varying tools isn't an old dying way of doing things, it's the present and future.

 

[Cashmonee]

I notice Apples stock dropped 20% in November I wonder if the prices of the new X phones caused a loss of sales was contribution to this drop.
So I am waiting to see how Apples stock handles the new 2018 iPadPro pricing.
As we have seen other Mfg.s have brought both phones and tablets out with lower prices for one example Samsung.

I suspect some of that was due to profit taking and psychological factors of crossing the $1 trillion mark. I also suspect a lot of it is due to Apple no longer disclosing unit sales sparking concern they are looking to hide a decline in unit sales (half true) and reports that nearly all of their product lines are underperforming, declining or both except for the Watch and Apple TV. I think what we will see at the next earnings is profit and revenue still up due to increases in price across the board, but concern that the future may not be as bright.

I have never been one to doubt Apple or claim their death is coming. I still think they are going to be hugely profitable. I also think we may have seen peak Apple and that they may be entering a dark period. In my time following the company (about 15 years) this is the first time I have seen a rather significant number of dedicated users start seriously looking at alternatives. It has happened before, but not to the degree it is happening now. I think the across the board significant price increases (while many others in the same markets are lowering prices) coupled with Apple's decline in reliability and quality along with competitors increase in reliability and quality may be the thing that turns the tide away from Apple.

As an Apple fanboy, it is sad to see.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

What you quoted me has nothing to do with your question.

You’re right, I first misunderstood your post and I agree with your comment on forcing people into a categories by the device they use.

I have no idea how to answer your question. You would have to ask Apple. Right now they see the larger models as better suited for artists, designers, photography, video, and other use cases. Maybe they make a large iPad for non Pro’s, maybe they don’t.

I hoped they would release 12.9 non pro version along the pros, but hopefully in the next release then.

 

[DNichter]

Classic choice-supportive bias. If it had anything to do with clinging to old ways while a new, better way of doing things was available, than this would definitely be worth debating. But there are basic features missing from iOS that force many people to alter their work flow to something much slower and clunkier than these use now. You are lucky if your workflow can fit into the limitations of iOS. Others cannot and are forced to use other devices, though the iPad hardware is certainly powerful enough - that is what frustrates people.

Needing better multi-tasking, full access to external storage, multi-user support and especially working on cross platform, collaborative work with varying tools isn't an old dying way of doing things, it's the present and future.

I agree with everything you say here, for the most part. I think the new workflows I have been able to incorporate using just an iPad and iPhone have tangible benefits to my position. Can it be that for every person and every task? No, definitely not, but that doesn’t mean it can’t work for some. Or that for those that do prefer iPad, that there work isn’t as legitimate as someone else’s. I think there is a ton of room for improvement with the iPad. From everything we have heard, iOS 13 should bring tabbed app multitasking, a redesigned home screen, and external storage support. I ultimately get your point, but I see iOS having a more promising future than macOS. Learning to do things a little differently now will allow for better flexibility in the future.
[doublepost=1543774085][/doublepost]

You’re right, I first misunderstood your post and I agree with your comment on forcing people into a categories by the device they use.



I hoped they would release 12.9 non pro version along the pros, but hopefully in the next release then.

All good. Yea I think it would be a good idea to have a non Pro 12.9 device also, but I don’t think Apple sees it that way. From a business perspective, it may not make a ton of sense either. We’ll see what happens.

 

[VMMan]

My 2018 iPad Pro 12.9” 256 GB LTE is bent despite being treated carefully and yet it is still an awesome device.

I just ordered another one, wi-fi only model. The price seems fair for a device I use frequently.

I also just ordered a $3400 2018 MacBook Pro 15” which is a device I won’t use that often because of the iPad. That’s obscene.

I also recently bought a $1249 iPhone XS Max which I thought was extremely obscene for a “phone”, but I use that device far more frequently than I will the $3400 MBP.

I mentioned this to a somebody and he said that the iPhone is a bargain! He explained that he uses his iPhone more than any other computer like device and feels its worth paying more for devices that will see more frequent use.

Another person heard this and also agreed that she thought $1249 for a phone was reasonable and she also concurred that she would pay more for devices that see frequent use! Both of these people are under 30 years of age.

I think since I am older, I developed a bias that a computer should cost a lot more than a “phone” or mobile iOS tablet.

The reality is that I think many people, especially younger millennials, see these mobile devices as all computers and think of the value proposition differently, based upon frequency of use.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

My humble opinion is Apple needs to separate their iOS phone platform and have a separate iOS for the iPad Pro to take it to the next level.

IMHO, they would have allready done the iOS split if that was the ultimate plan. Im guessing Apple is currently little lost with iPads. They are not willing to make iOS open enought to make it to the next level like you said. Why? Because they are too afraid of the failure. There are laptops, macs that ipads cannot compete with in terms of Pro-working.

Currently iPad Pros are not really satisfying regular user like myself or even the Pro people. IPad Pro is ”in between” product that shouldn’t exist. Apple should’t mix the Pro stuff and iPads in the first place. iPad is meant to be a amazing product for the masses. Pro people are too small and niche group and they should be working with laptops, macs etc. IMHO

 

[richpjr]

...I see iOS having a more promising future than macOS.

I think in the long term (probably very long term) that iOS is the future Apple OS, not OS X. I believe that Macs will be relegated to specialized tasks and used by fewer and fewer people. But we are a long way from that.

 

[DNichter]

I think in the long term (probably very long term) that iOS is the future Apple OS, not OS X. I believe that Macs will be relegated to specialized tasks and used by fewer and fewer people. But we are a long way from that.

I do think there is value for macOS long term as there is an obviously place for Mac’s, but they already are a relatively small share of computer users. iPad’s sell more than Mac’s as it is. A few small changes and Apple could shift a good bulk of their users to iOS. It makes better business sense as it’ll lock users into a closed controlled ecosystem. I think this is what Apple wants long term.

 

[secretk]

I do think there is value for macOS long term as there is an obviously place for Mac’s, but they already are a relatively small share of computer users. iPad’s sell more than Mac’s as it is. A few small changes and Apple could shift a good bulk of their users to iOS. It makes better business sense as it’ll lock users into a closed controlled ecosystem. I think this is what Apple wants long term.

Yeah it depends on someone's usage. I think that for people that used to use their computers at home for watching movies iPad is a great replacement. So that category definitely is already filled.

We know that the iPad plays quite good role when it comes to photo and video editing. Digital art as well so this is where people can use it professionally. Another group is music editing as of last I checked.

There are three categories that for now I am not sure that can go only with iPad:

1. Heavy Microsoft office users (they will most probably need the desktop versions of the software plus bigger screen plus mouse/trackpad)
2. Some software developers - that might change at some point with Development going more to virtual machines and servers and iOS improving but for now it's still not the case. Though Developers mostly need either a lot of virtual servers or workstations and desktops.
3. Some really really really niche cases. For example in university I used 3D Max studio to run OpenGL scripts to render designs. That is however really really specific case.

I can't come up now with other cases. I honestly think that the Microsoft thing is more like a blocker. Honestly we still use enough Microsoft programs and the moment we do, we need the desktop versions.

 

[DNichter]

Yeah it depends on someone's usage. I think that for people that used to use their computers at home for watching movies iPad is a great replacement. So that category definitely is already filled.

We know that the iPad plays quite good role when it comes to photo and video editing. Digital art as well so this is where people can use it professionally. Another group is music editing as of last I checked.

There are three categories that for now I am not sure that can go only with iPad:

1. Heavy Microsoft office users (they will most probably need the desktop versions of the software plus bigger screen plus mouse/trackpad)
2. Some software developers - that might change at some point with Development going more to virtual machines and servers and iOS improving but for now it's still not the case. Though Developers mostly need either a lot of virtual servers or workstations and desktops.
3. Some really really really niche cases. For example in university I used 3D Max studio to run OpenGL scripts to render designs. That is however really really specific case.

I can't come up now with other cases. I honestly think that the Microsoft thing is more like a blocker. Honestly we still use enough Microsoft programs and the moment we do, we need the desktop versions.

If I’m Apple, I leave heavy Microsoft users to Microsoft, although I use their apps on my iPad. I just wouldn’t focus on appeasing those users. With software developers, i expect that to change in 2019 with Xcode for iPad. I think the swift playgrounds app has been kind of a test bed for software development on the iPad. They’ll start slow like Final Cut Pro X, but they’ll add to the feature set over time. All of the other niche use cases likely could be accomplished as well, but Apple would need to make some large changes. In the end, it’s in Apple’s control with where they want to take the iPad.

 

[secretk]

If I’m Apple, I leave heavy Microsoft users to Microsoft, although I use their apps on my iPad. I just wouldn’t focus on appeasing those users.

In general I agree with you and honestly if it was something else I think Apple would have done this already. Problem is I think that big corporations use Microsoft office for their daily work. If they remove this they will lose this market. Though I guess users could use the Apple apps and just export the files to Microsoft compatible ones.

With software developers, i expect that to change in 2019 with Xcode for iPad. I think the swift playgrounds app has been kind of a test bed for software development on the iPad.

That works for iOS Developers. Not so much for Java/C# Developers. And trust me there are such Developers. Now granted I guess they could ignore those like above with Microsoft users .

They’ll start slow like Final Cut Pro X, but they’ll add to the feature set over time. All of the other niche use cases likely could be accomplished as well, but Apple would need to make some large changes. In the end, it’s in Apple’s control with where they want to take the iPad.

True! In the end Apple is the one that decides what to do with the iPad. The end consumers decide if it's working for them or not .