OfCom - iPhone Unlock

[brisweeney]

But they are not forcing you to maintain a contract with them. If you find a 3rd party hack to remove the SIM lock, then you are perfectly within your rights to use that hack, and O2 will not attempt to take any action against you.

because that is against the SLA that you aggree to when activating your iPhone and voids your warranty.

another person says "why not contact apple?" well, you dont contact nokia for your unlock code, or sony erricson, you get it from your provider. the only difference is that for the iPhone there is no "code" the network provide your imei to apple, it gets placed on a database and will be unlocked the next time you sync with iTunes. i believe it also downloads an updated carrier file.

O2 in particular are using their "exclusivity" deal with apple as an excuse to refuse to unlock phones, even though they hold exclusive distribution rights to a number of other phones. the fact is, an exclusivity deal does not surpass common contract law where by a contract needs to be fair to both parties.

i believe that O2 are refusing point blank to send the imei numbers to apple,using the unlawful term in the contract and their "exclusivity" deal as excuses. they probably knew their deal with apple was ending a year or so ago, seeing as orange uk knew a year ago they got the iPhone, so O2 have spent the last year, and especially the remaining months before the market opens up to increase their market share and keep customers with them, which is fair enough, but they are doing it in unfair and unlawful ways.

this is all my opinion, and the opinion of someone in the legal field who is helping me out, but i reckon if it went as far as legal action, a judge could see it the consumers way

 

[kAoTiX]

Why are people under the assumption there is no pay as you go contact?

Can you prove that by purchasing an iPhone from o2 that a PAYG customer enters into an agreement, be it signed or not? I purchased my PAYG iPhone direct from Apple so the only involvement I have with o2 is the fact that I use a PAYG sim card in my iPhone.

No one has actually mentioned purchasing direct from Apple, thus removing O2 from the equation. If I didn't ever put the O2 sim card into my iPhone I would have absolutely no involement with O2 nor be under any kind of agreement or obligation to use their network. Other than, of course I would be locked to their network.

 

[Attonine]

To the OP. Just wait until the 3GS is available in the UAE or Saudi and buy one. All iPhones are factory unlocked from Mobily in Saudi, I think it's the same in UAE, (Etisalat are Mobily). Just get an Emirati to pick one up for you when he goes to Saudi, 2800 SR ( about 470 pound/ 500 Euro)for a 16gb 3G, so presumably the 32gb 3GS will be the same. I know they already have them in Kuwait, factory unlocked, not sure of the price though (probably more than is Saudi, as Saudi is always the cheapest).

Of course it depends on how much your time is worth and how much you are prepared to pursue O2.

 

[goosnarrggh]

because that is against the SLA that you aggree to when activating your iPhone and voids your warranty.

A violation of your SLA is an issue you'll need to take up with Apple directly. O2 is not a party to that agreement.

O2 themselves still won't take any action against you if you use a 3rd party hack to unlock the phone, because as you've so correctly noted, they no longer have any contractual power over you after the term has expired.

In my mind, there's still a logical disconnect between the first notion (namely, that O2 no longer has the authority to force you not to unlock the phone after the contract expires) and the second notion (namely, the notion that the fact that you have permission to unlock the phone, somehow leads to the conclusion that that it's O2's duty to perform the unlock themselves).

 

[sdm1985]

Hi,

I have an iPhone 3GS on PAYG running a Simplicity SIM. I want to unlock the phone to use a T-mobile SIM.

I want the unlock not to restrict any services or cause any hardware problems, I also don't want the phone to be locked after any future updates are out.

Is this possible?

Shawn

 

[yetanotherdave]

Why is everyone jumping the gun here? Personally I'm calling o2 every month or so, but I'm still in contract, and they are still exclusive.

When orange get the iPhone I'll call again, as they will no longr be exclusive, and that's probably when they'll change their policy. If not, when vodafone get it and it's available on several networks, again, their policy is likely to change. If the iPhone is available on vodafone, orange and o2, AND my contract is up, and o2 still refuse, then I'll get annoyed, and probably just buy on my carrier of choice (vodafone) or wait on a jailbroken iPhone for a few more months until the 4th gen comes out.

 

[soulghost]

Hi,

I have an iPhone 3GS on PAYG running a Simplicity SIM. I want to unlock the phone to use a T-mobile SIM.

I want the unlock not to restrict any services or cause any hardware problems, I also don't want the phone to be locked after any future updates are out.

Is this possible?

Shawn

NO.

 

[brisweeney]

Just sending a quick update. received a letter today from O2 irelands senior legal counsel, the guts of it basically saying that because they hold exclusive rights to the phone they do not believe that the contract contravenes any contract law or the european directive i quoted earlier in this post. how ever they do not mention the directive, which means it is possible that they are in breach of it, and are just not accepting its relevance.

im still intent on having my solicitor and possibly a barrister have a look at the issues here, as ive done all the ground work its just having another eye put to it to see if it can hold water in court.

however i may hold off until Q1 of 2010 to see what vodafone irelands stance on handset locking is, as a court case would obviously be quite expensive!

hopefuly everyone else who is not happy with O2's stance on this matter can go to OfCom in the uk and ComReg in the EU and lodge a complaint, aslo pass it on to your local MEP member, it cant hurt to have the issue in peoples minds!

 

[Steve Jobs=God]

Try calling once Orange start selling it if the only reason they are not going to do it now is due to being exclusive providers

 

[healeydave]

There was a lot of discussion about the locked handsets when the first iPhones were released and the assumption then was that once your contract was over you should be able to get it unlocked.

I forgot all about that until stumbling on this thread.

Does anyone know the Carriers or Apples stance on this.
It doesn't seem right that after the customer has paid in full for the handset (especially with the first gen) and all contractual obligations have been met with the Carrier that the phone should remain locked down. In those circumstances, I would have thought the customer should be free to do with the handset what they want, it would seem wrong that the original Carrier and/or Apple can still limit the functionality of the handset at that point in time, or am I just being naive?

 

[brisweeney]

There was a lot of discussion about the locked handsets when the first iPhones were released and the assumption then was that once your contract was over you should be able to get it unlocked.

I forgot all about that until stumbling on this thread.

Does anyone know the Carriers or Apples stance on this.
It doesn't seem right that after the customer has paid in full for the handset (especially with the first gen) and all contractual obligations have been met with the Carrier that the phone should remain locked down. In those circumstances, I would have thought the customer should be free to do with the handset what they want, it would seem wrong that the original Carrier and/or Apple can still limit the functionality of the handset at that point in time, or am I just being naive?

if you read back through the thread it should answer all your questions, the networks stance and the issues i am raising with regards to the fairness and legality of the contract term used in the iPhone contract.

i may ring vodafone in the next week or so and see if they will comment on their locking/unlocking stance

 

[healeydave]

I'm not sure anything answers my questions relating to genuine out of contract phones.

Anyone with a 3GS has not fulfilled a full term contract to the Carriers satisfaction currently.

Only those with the first gen iPhone can have completed a contract fully.

I also have a 3G iPhone purchased on launch day and with the minimum term for the 3G of 18 Months, that one is due to expire in December, which must be the earliest for 3G phones too!

 

[Interpolation]

I'm not sure anything answers my questions relating to genuine out of contract phones.

Anyone with a 3GS has not fulfilled a full term contract to the Carriers satisfaction currently.

Only those with the first gen iPhone can have completed a contract fully.

I also have a 3G iPhone purchased on launch day and with the minimum term for the 3G of 18 Months, that one is due to expire in December, which must be the earliest for 3G phones too!

Don't forget people who bought a PAYG 3G as we don't really have a contract. My free internet is finishing in December. I would love to be able to stick in any other sim into the phone.

Maybe O2 will change their policy when orange finally start giving out the iphone, but we will have to wait.

 

[martuk]

Is it just me being thick, but why when Orange get the iPhone will O2 possibly offer an unlock? Surely that would be the opposite of what they want, everyone getting unlocked and going to another network, if they refuse to unlock they have more chance of keeping customers, although slightly annoyed customers.

 

[Interpolation]

Is it just me being thick, but why when Orange get the iPhone will O2 possibly offer an unlock? Surely that would be the opposite of what they want, everyone getting unlocked and going to another network, if they refuse to unlock they have more chance of keeping customers, although slightly annoyed customers.

Because their general argument at the moment is we have the exclusive contract for the iphone so we do not unlock. Once Orange start shipping the phone they cannot use this argument any more. According to ofcom you should be able to switch providers and your provider should allow you to do that.

But you are right O2 could just stick to their guns and refuse. It really depends on what orange and vodaphone do. If their handsets are locked to their network then it might be difficult to get O2 to unlocks them.

 

[NightFox]

Don't forget people who bought a PAYG 3G as we don't really have a contract. My free internet is finishing in December. I would love to be able to stick in any other sim into the phone.

Maybe O2 will change their policy when orange finally start giving out the iphone, but we will have to wait.

Yes, PAYG customers don't have a written provision of service contract but with everything you buy, you make a contract when you buy it, it's just not a written one. And this contract was to buy an iPhone running on the O2 network. So where's the obligation for O2 to unlock or assist you to do so?

I'm not meaning to be argumentative, I too would like my iPhone unlocked, just wanted to correct the assumption that PAYG=no contract.

 

[Interpolation]

Yes, PAYG customers don't have a written provision of service contract but with everything you buy, you make a contract when you buy it, it's just not a written one. And this contract was to buy an iPhone running on the O2 network. So where's the obligation for O2 to unlock or assist you to do so?

I'm not meaning to be argumentative, I too would like my iPhone unlocked, just wanted to correct the assumption that PAYG=no contract.

Not taken as argumentative.

But why should O2 lock you into their network. That is anti-competition. You should be able to choose whichever provider you want.

 

[brisweeney]

Not taken as argumentative.

But why should O2 lock you into their network. That is anti-competition. You should be able to choose whichever provider you want.

these are all completely valid points too, however slightly harder to go about enforcing, i stuck to 2 points in my letter to O2,which i feel are the 2 major breaches they are commiting, 1) which the uk are also legally tied to is EU Council Directive 93/13/EEC of 5 April 1993, which you can find online, ive also linked to it in an earlier post. and 2) a breach of common contract law which states that a contract is unlawful if it places an unfair restriction of trade upon one of the parties in the contract, now if the device is legally yours after completing your contract term, which it is, being only able to pass on or sell that device to another O2 customer is a restriction of trade.

there is also the issue of anti competition, which is a legal minefield,so i didnt touch it, and also the specific wording of the term in the contract, which says if you terminate your agreement with O2 your handset is locked, it doesnt go into whether ending your contract outside of the 18 months is terminating, its all symantics, but is very relelvent if you took it to court.

like i said before, if you are unhappy with O2 please contact OfCom and ComReg and your MEP, and also CC O2 with your complaint.

 

[steve-p]

Yes, PAYG customers don't have a written provision of service contract but with everything you buy, you make a contract when you buy it, it's just not a written one. And this contract was to buy an iPhone running on the O2 network. So where's the obligation for O2 to unlock or assist you to do so?

I'm not meaning to be argumentative, I too would like my iPhone unlocked, just wanted to correct the assumption that PAYG=no contract.

I bought my phone on PAYG as I already had an existing monthly contract and wanted to upgrade early. However I didn't sign anything, nor was I told it was locked to O2. I already knew that of course, but that's not the point. I just asked for the phone, paid by credit card and walked out within a couple of minutes.

If there are any unfair or anticompetitive terms when buying something. I kind of think they are obliged to tell you about it when you buy, if they expect it to form part of the purchase contract, but they did not, and maybe someone might try to exploit that at some point.

I'm not saying that I expect my PAYG phone unlocked anytime soon, although it would be good, but simply that O2 may not have done enough when selling PAYG phones to existing customers to prevent them having grounds to force them to unlock it at some future time.

 

[Badfoot]

The locked iPhone is NOT a suitable phone for the average travelling business user, or anybody who likes or needs to travel. That's one big demographic group Apple\O2 are ruling themselves out of !.

 

[goosnarrggh]

...According to ofcom you should be able to switch providers and your provider should allow you to do that.

An interesting point. But I'm entirely convinced it's relevant.

If I interpret things correctly, the point of that policy is to make sure that you:
(a) have the contractual ability to terminate your service with one carrier and start getting service with another, and
(b) have the right to take your old contact information (ie phone number) with you when you switch from one carrier to another.

If, after your contract expires, you ask O2 to port your number over to a new service on Orange and terminate your service agreement with O2, and they agree to do so, then I think they've fulfilled the letter of that policy.

I don't interpret that policy as having anything at all to do with the ability to use the same equipment after you've hooked up on the other service provider.

 

[C is for COOKIE]

Ok, let's follow this path of reasoning for a little while.

Let's say you do terminate your contract, and as such, the carrier no longer has the power to enforce any contractual provisions. As such, you are no longer bound by the contractual provision saying you waive your right to attempt to unlock the phone or use it with a different carrier. (I don't even know for sure that any such contractual provision exists, but let's say for the moment that it does.)

That's fine, you now have permission to attempt to unlock the phone, if you can find someone who is willing and able to do it.

But is there any point of law or regulation which actually imposes an obligation (a policy written in restrictive rather than permissive language) on either the manufacturer or the carrier, which makes it mandatory for them to give you the unlocking service you're asking for?

The contract is terminated, and as such, the carrier no longer has any contractual obligations that outlive the life of the contract either! So, the carrier has no contractual obligation to provide you with any sort of service at all, least of all an unlocking service.

So let's take it back to Apple. Did you ever have a contractual agreement with Apple in the first place? Does that agreement outlive your contract with the carrier?

If your agreement with Apple does outlive your contract with the carrier, then doesn't that agreement (the software EULA) also say that you won't attempt to make any modifications to the iPhone's software unless Apple authorises it? And if Apple chooses not to offer a modification that unlocks the phone, then aren't they within their rights to choose not to authorise such a modification?

If your agreement with Apple doesn't outlive your contract with the carrier, then Apple, too, has no obligation to provide you with any further service, much less unlocking the phone.

If the part in the contract that states you must stay with O2 is removed by the EU, then it places an obligation on the carrier to provide an unlocking solution for the phone, just like it does for every other phone.

The EU is very anti-monopolistic. ANYTHING that distorts competition is fined. Forcing customers to stay on your network to use a phone that you paid for in full and that you own, distorts competition.

 

[FXT 1]

Those of you with Pay and Go iPhones must remember that O2 has subsidized the PayG iPhone to the tune of around £200 or so (correct me on that), but the point is they're not going to let anyone go until they've recouped their money completely.

How much do people spend on Pay & Go anyway? I used to spend around £10 a month or so. Not sure how O2 will get round that.

 

[iHateMacs]

Those of you with Pay and Go iPhones must remember that O2 has subsidized the PayG iPhone to the tune of around £200 or so

So the true cost of a 32Gb 3Gs is £740? That seems a lot.

 

[healeydave]

Yeah, I'm not so sure about the current true value of the iPhone. At around £440 on PAYG, I would say that can't be far off the total price.

Actually, I haven nothing against o2, I have used them as a means to and end for the iPhone, but I have no allegiance to any of the UK networks. I do hate contracts though and the 3G contract I currently have is because I was held to rand-some to get the 3G handset 14 months ago as there was no PAYG option.

I was one of Orange's first customers when they only had 50% coverage but they had the only digital network at the time. I was with them for several years and they did nothing to retain existing customers, all they cared about was new customers. Having had experience of all the networks pretty much in the UK, they are all as bad as each other.

When my contract is up in December, I will cancel the contract and go back to PAYG. The 3GS will have already been out 6 months by then, so I will keep my 3G and wait for the next iPhone.

In my opinion o2 missed a trick with the 3GS launch, they forced a great many people stuck in 18 month contracts to stick with their 3G phones. Instead of doing a deal and getting them into another contract whilst they still had exclusivity, most 3G users will be coming out of contract at a time when they have options
That was a very bad move, I would be holding someone to account for that if I was the o2 CEO, unless it was himself to blame.