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OfCom - iPhone Unlock

I have been watching this very closely, like many others I'm a 3G owner I took my contract out at launch so am able to think about moving ni the next month or so.

Myself, I'm in a slightly different position until Dec of last year I was actually an O2 retail emlpoyee and as the annoucement came about the 3GS I took the time to email the CEO and Retail Director at O2 directly...

I suggested to them that there plan for launch on the new 3GS and O2's exsisting customers was flawed and that surely in line with the business plan they had in place (Which all O2 staff are trained on) they were making a huge mistake.

I outlined why, I explained in detail what was likely to happen and ultimately put forward suggestion as to how to deal with it... Ok so I also suggested to them that with my track record within the business combined with my explanation I wanted a job out of it..

Without suprise I just got fobbed off telling me that I was was wrong and that basically I didn't nkow what I was talking about.

Well O2..... look at where you are now... now more exclusive iPhone and a ton of Apple customers who were forced to come to you all about to be able to move to other networks. Plus, if reports are true your about to become the 2nd biggest network in the UK, no longer the first!!!

Palm Pre.... well thats never going to take that many Apple customers is it... so shot your selfs in the foot there.

However coming back to the whole Unlock situation, I kind of find myself thinking that O2 will in the end agree to unlock the handset at a cost of course!!!

But I really don't see it coming any time soon. As a after thought I also think they may try and retain us exsisting iphone customers. However like suggested before they missed the boat on this. Me at the end of my contract I'm likely to look at a sim only deal holding out until next year if and when a new phone is launched.

I do think though people nufortunately for us until the other providers sort themselfs out O2 will do nothing!!

Just my thoughts!
 
FXT 1 said:
Those of you with Pay and Go iPhones must remember that O2 has subsidized the PayG iPhone to the tune of around £200 or so (correct me on that), but the point is they're not going to let anyone go until they've recouped their money completely. :(

How much do people spend on Pay & Go anyway? I used to spend around £10 a month or so. Not sure how O2 will get round that.
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I spend £0 a month because I put my existing monthly contract SIM into it straight away and sold the old iPhone. However this is compensated for because the new owner of my previous iPhone is using the PAYG SIM that came with my new phone, and of course they are paying to use it on O2. If they started unlocking older iPhones, they could end up selling PAYG phones to existing contract customers and find that they aren't recovering anything towards any subsidy if the old phone is used on a different network, so they won't want to be doing it unless they are forced to.
 
steve-p said:
I spend £0 a month because I put my existing monthly contract SIM into it straight away and sold the old iPhone. However this is compensated for because the new owner of my previous iPhone is using the PAYG SIM that came with my new phone, and of course they are paying to use it on O2. If they started unlocking older iPhones, they could end up selling PAYG phones to existing contract customers and find that they aren't recovering anything towards any subsidy if the old phone is used on a different network, so they won't want to be doing it unless they are forced to.
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I also spend £0 on my PAYG as my work uses O2 so I have put my work sim into the iphone.

My only grip is that I do not have the ability, if I wanted to put a new sim in from another provider. This is the first phone I have ever had locked into a network.
 
I'm in the same boat ... i bought the iPhone 3GS on PAYG on launch and sold my 3G and dropped my contract SIM into the 3GS
 
Matthew Key, head of O2 UK has confirmed they will unlock your iPhone once the contract has finished.

Q: Is there any truth in the rumour that after Orange and Vodafone are able to sell the iPhone you will not allow people to unlock their iPhone, even if they are out of their contract period? If so, how can you justify this action if the customers have paid for the phone over the life of their contract and you will not be the sole carrier? Do you not think this would possibly be illegal under EU law?

Andy McConn, Glasgow

Andy,

There is absolutely no truth in that rumour. Once the iPhone becomes available on other UK networks, we will allow O2 customers to unlock their iPhones, although of course they will still need to honour any outstanding contract period they have. At the end of their contract period, they are entirely free to move to another operator — though naturally we hope they won’t want to!
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http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article6886886.ece
 
OllyW said:
Matthew Key, head of O2 UK has confirmed they will unlock your iPhone once the contract has finished.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article6886886.ece
Click to expand...
That raises other questions though. Suppose the new owner of my old iPhone 3G wants to unlock it. I am still paying the monthly contract I took out for that phone until February, but using a new PAYG 3GS with the contract SIM. Which of the two phones can be unlocked? If they say the 3G can't be unlocked because of the contract, then they would have to allow the 3GS to be unlocked. Or would they allow the new owner to unlock the 3G and want to terminate my contract? Would they care as long as the monthly payments are still being made? It's a bit of a can of worms and could affect resale of used iPhones.
 
OllyW said:
Matthew Key, head of O2 UK has confirmed they will unlock your iPhone once the contract has finished.



http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article6886886.ece
Click to expand...

Excellent news, nice to have it officially rather than from a CSR. I bet o2 CSR's will be overwhelmed on the day that orange launch...

steve-p said:
That raises other questions though. Suppose the new owner of my old iPhone 3G wants to unlock it. I am still paying the monthly contract I took out for that phone until February, but using a new PAYG 3GS with the contract SIM. Which of the two phones can be unlocked? If they say the 3G can't be unlocked because of the contract, then they would have to allow the 3GS to be unlocked. Or would they allow the new owner to unlock the 3G and want to terminate my contract? Would they care as long as the monthly payments are still being made? It's a bit of a can of worms and could affect resale of used iPhones.
Click to expand...

It suggests that you can just unlock the phone, although you are still tied into the contract. Which is unusual, normally they make you wait till the end of the contract.
 
This is a moot point, I know, because O2 has officially stated that they will start unlocking after their exclusivity has expired. I honestly think that this is very good news, and that O2 is doing the right thing. But I am of the opinion that they are probably doing this voluntarily, and not because of any pressure that's been exerted by regulators.

C is for COOKIE said:
If the part in the contract that states you must stay with O2 is removed by the EU, then it places an obligation on the carrier to provide an unlocking solution for the phone, just like it does for every other phone.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry for dragging this out. I still don't understand the connection between service contract and equipment. In my mind they're two distinct concepts. Taking arguments such as yours to their logical conclusion, in my mind, would generate nonsensical scenarios.

If a customer with a 2G handset leaves their contract to switch to another carrier who hasn shut off its 2G network in favour of 3G and LTE, is the original carrier obliged to re-wire the handset's internals to add a 3G chipset so that it can be used with the new carrier?

If a new wireless carrier happened to open up in the UK that used (for some reason) a non-GSM-based network infrastructure (or a different frequency), then it would be impossible for their users to bring their equipment with them when they moved to a different carrier. Would that therefore make it mandatory for the carrier to re-wire the phone's internals at the end of the contract, to remove the non-GSM chipset and install a GSM chipset in its place?

Or, if a customer was going to leave one of the established carriers and switch over to this new non-GSM carrier, would it become mandatory for the carrier to re-wire the phone to remove the GSM chipset and install the non-GSM chipset in its place?

The EU is very anti-monopolistic. ANYTHING that distorts competition is fined. Forcing customers to stay on your network to use a phone that you paid for in full and that you own, distorts competition.
Click to expand...

In that case, forcing users to stay on your computer to use a copy of an operating system that you paid for would be a distortion of competition. And yet most readers on this forum would be fully supportive of Apple's policy of doing just that with Mac OS X.
 
goosnarrggh said:
I'm sorry for dragging this out. I still don't understand the connection between service contract and equipment. In my mind they're two distinct concepts. Taking arguments such as yours to their logical conclusion, in my mind, would generate nonsensical scenarios.

If a customer with a 2G handset leaves their contract to switch to another carrier who hasn shut off its 2G network in favour of 3G and LTE, is the original carrier obliged to re-wire the handset's internals to add a 3G chipset so that it can be used with the new carrier?

If a new wireless carrier happened to open up in the UK that used (for some reason) a non-GSM-based network infrastructure (or a different frequency), then it would be impossible for their users to bring their equipment with them when they moved to a different carrier. Would that therefore make it mandatory for the carrier to re-wire the phone's internals at the end of the contract, to remove the non-GSM chipset and install a GSM chipset in its place?

.
Click to expand...
Rewiring the internals of a phone to work on another network is completely different. As a customer, O2's job is to simply to provide a network for me to use. If I'm not satisfied, I should be able to move freely to another network and still use the phone that I have fully paid for. Whether my phone is suitable to that network is irrelevant and not O2's problem.

I have contacted the EU Commissioner for Communications and they are looking into it as O2 has indeed violated the directive on Unfair Contract terms.
 
FXT 1 said:
Those of you with Pay and Go iPhones must remember that O2 has subsidized the PayG iPhone to the tune of around £200 or so (correct me on that), but the point is they're not going to let anyone go until they've recouped their money completely. :(

How much do people spend on Pay & Go anyway? I used to spend around £10 a month or so. Not sure how O2 will get round that.
Click to expand...
Where did you read this? O2 does not subsidise PAYG phones and that is why they are more expensive. The price you pay on a PAYG iPhone is the total price
 
C is for COOKIE said:
Where did you read this? O2 does not subsidise PAYG phones and that is why they are more expensive. The price you pay on a PAYG iPhone is the total price
Click to expand...

Somewhere...I know I have, can't remember at the minute sorry but look at it this way.:)
The current cost of an unlocked iPhone 3G S 32GB is £900 on Play.com, of course this is unlocked (hence the higher cost) and Play.com's profit is included in the price. Now, we don't know the trade price for an iPhone 3G S 32GB but we do know that the trade price has increased tremendously (from what O2 was saying earlier this year) the cost of the high end 32GB 3GS is a lot more that last year's 16GB 3G although it costs Apple slightly less to build (check iFixit for build costs):(.

Now, the cheapest unlocked 3GS 32GB imported from one of the carriers in Italy is about £850 (through a third party phonedevil.com), so this price includes an unknown amount of profit.

Furthermore, TIM in Italy one of the 3 official iPhone carriers sell the iPhone 3GS 32GB unlocked by law for €719 thats £661.76. If you think about it, O2 wouldn't price an unlocked or locked iPhone at £660+ !!

Plus, they need to make profit, they're not just going to give iPhones away with little or no profit margin. And if they do, but lock them then people will complain that they payed for the full device and so should receive an unlock (which I do agree with :)) and O2 loses out.

So, yes, it would make sense for O2 to partially subsidize the Pay and Go iPhone 3G S but lock them to the network to recoup the costs. That's why I was wondering how much people spend on their Pay and Go iPhones. :)

Of course I could be completely wrong:rolleyes:

*My analysis ignore tax costs in both countries btw. But it wouldn't disprove the point.
 
Looking at the pricing in Belgium (Where it's sold unlocked), a 32GB 3GS is €675. Compare that to here in Ireland where the same is €609 (albeit locked), there's not a huge mark-up. Belgian and Italian operators are just profiting on the fact that they know people will buy from abroad to get a factory unlocked iPhone. Also factor in Excise duties, the premium mark-up that the likes of Play.com charge because it's unlocked etc. and you'll find why it's so expensive.
 
O2 cancelled my contract earlier this year as they agreed that their web site showed coverage in my area that simply didn't exist. They also refunded my monthly rental plus a bit for the hassle I had. They wanted my 3G phone back back and offered to refund my £159 that i paid Apple for it.

However I 'forgot' to send it back and when the O2 non-exclusive issue was announced I approached my Customer Services person for an unlock code.

I was led to believe that these would be available once the exclusive contract ended. We now know this is November 10th.

I guess in a fortnight we can all apply.


Does the O2 site have an on line unlock code application page - I couldn't find one?

Thanks

Alex
 
Can someone help me please?

I am running iPhone 3G that has a Gervy Piggy back card and VF card, which works great. Clearly Ihave not updated to the 3.0> OS.

I have been corresponding wirh O2 about getting an unlock code for the iPhone - my contract was mutually cancelled by iPhone and my number released. See my earlier post

When I log onto ITunes, I get a message asking me if I wish to update my OS to which i reply now. Over the past two weeks i have been getting a further message saying that an update to the carrier settings for my iPhone is available, would i like to install it?

Does anyone know what changes this would make to my iPhone - its not an unlock code is it ? :D:D

Alex
 
this is great news for UK customers, clearly all the pressure being placed on O2 has paid off, and they are infact aware that their contract is in breach of a number of laws, i can see the contract for the next iPhone having some changes in the wording! :p not just about unlocking!

no word yet from O2 Ireland, but a rep has said once vodafone get the device they will release some info.

i can still see a number of complaints to the telecoms regulators being upheld though. as O2's contract is still an unfair and unlawful one.
 
Found this on the O2 forum:

This is the reply I received from O2 when I asked about unlocking my pay & go iPhone 3G. Dated 23rd October 2009.

Thanks for emailing us about unlocking your mobile phone, so you can use another network SIM card in it.

I'm sorry that you could avail the exclusive offer for Apple iphone.

I understand how disappointing this may be for you.

Orange will start selling the iPhone device in the UK. This ends the exclusive deal O2 have with Apple.

O2 are proud that we've been able to offer an exclusive iPhone deal to our 20 million customers for the last two years. We always knew that iPhone exclusivity was for a limited period of time, but our relationship with Apple continues and will be an ongoing success.

We have over 1 million iPhone customers and they remain very important to us.

If you want to use a SIM card from another network in one of our phones, you need an 'unlatching' code, which costs £15.

We can only give you the code if you've been on our network for at least a year. That's because we covered part of the price of your phone when you bought it, to make it cheaper for you.

After checking you're account, I'm sorry to inform you that you've not completed 12 months on our network so I'm afraid you'll not be eligible to receive your unlatching code. As you're 12 months will be completed on 10th January 2010.

I hope you'll find the above information useful and we look forward to your reply.

Thanks again for emailing us and have a great day.

So basically for a PAYG iphone you can have it uolocked for £15, once your 12 months are up. For me that is in December :)
 
Wonder if contract customers will also be charged £15.

Also wonder if O2 will be forced to look at their international rates, which are nowhere near competitive, once people can swap out their sims much more easily.

Phazer
 
The Phazer said:
Wonder if contract customers will also be charged £15.

Also wonder if O2 will be forced to look at their international rates, which are nowhere near competitive, once people can swap out their sims much more easily.

Phazer
Click to expand...

By the look of it the answer is yes contract contract customers will also be charged £15 once their contract is up. Looks like this is a standard charge for O2.

As to international rates, who knows, but maybe competition for hte iphone may change things.
 
so does anyone know what the price and when contract phones can be officially unlocked?

i'm assuming after the contract period is over, but not sure on the price
 
dalvin200 said:
so does anyone know what the price and when contract phones can be officially unlocked?

i'm assuming after the contract period is over, but not sure on the price
Click to expand...

O2's boss has already said it will be once the iPhone is available on other networks and your contract is up.

There's no official word on the cost yet, just the rumoured £15 fee as posted above by Interpolation.
 
OllyW said:
O2's boss has already said it will be once the iPhone is available on other networks and your contact is up.

There's no official word on the cost yet, just the rumoured £15 fee as posted above by Interpolation.
Click to expand...

Looks like it has not filtered down to customer services yet, as looks like depending who you get you get a different answer.
 
Just received the following instructions from O2 re unlocking iPhone

Here are the instructions for unlocking your iPhone from 10 November:

What does the customer need to do?

For iPhone:-
- complete the unlocking form on o2.co.uk (www.o2.co.uk/unlockmyiphone) - it will take up to 14 days for the iPhone to be unlocked and we’ll text the customer to confirm the unlock request.
place a non-O2 sim into the iPhone and connect it to iTunes via a USB cable. iTunes will confirm that their iPhone has been successfully unlocked.
 
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