What happened with that Jordon XP kid? I remember he got banned like well over a year ago but what led up to that ban?
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I think you, as what the participants in that thread were doing, are missing the "average user" qualifier.
I think there are less arguments and I provided my reason why. You don't appear to be disagreeing with my statement so I'm not sure what end game it is that you're trying to reach.
Then you are, essentially, supporting the argument the "defender" (maybe I should spend the time to look him up instead of constantly referring to him as "the defender") was making. All the while arguing against it.
Everyone here knows I hate Tiger - and why.
Everyone here knows I use TenFourFox and hate Webkit on every platform it'll work on.
Everyone here knows I am not a fan of the iBook (particularly the G3), the 12" PowerBook and the iMac.
But everyone also knows…I run Tiger on systems Leopard won't run on or systems I need it on. I use Webkit based browsers for certain things. I have an iBook, a 12" PowerBook and an iMac and I help anyone asking questions about them if I can.
My opinions and preferences are just that - mine alone. It's not right to push them on other people or expect people to conform to my standards. Offering help in that manner isn't help, it's subjugation and indoctrination.
Helping is lending a hand to make something work, even if it's not anything you care for yourself. I'm not a saint, plenty of people can be critical of me in these forums, but I'm not a devil either.
I am critical of people who try to turn opinions into fact however, particularly when they don't research. That irritates me and I will point it out. That's not dogpiling. Neither is consensus of opinion dogpiling.
I am not responding to anyone in particular here, just stating my thoughts on the current turn of subject.
Everyone here knows I use TenFourFox and hate Webkit on every platform it'll work on.
Everyone here knows I am not a fan of the iBook (particularly the G3), the 12" PowerBook and the iMac.
But everyone also knows…I run Tiger on systems Leopard won't run on or systems I need it on. I use Webkit based browsers for certain things. I have an iBook, a 12" PowerBook and an iMac and I help anyone asking questions about them if I can.
My opinions and preferences are just that - mine alone. It's not right to push them on other people or expect people to conform to my standards. Offering help in that manner isn't help, it's subjugation and indoctrination.
Helping is lending a hand to make something work, even if it's not anything you care for yourself. I'm not a saint, plenty of people can be critical of me in these forums, but I'm not a devil either.
I am critical of people who try to turn opinions into fact however, particularly when they don't research. That irritates me and I will point it out. That's not dogpiling. Neither is consensus of opinion dogpiling.
I am not responding to anyone in particular here, just stating my thoughts on the current turn of subject.
Yanno I was one of the folks who agreed (& still do) with the premise of that video, and with that, my POV was dog piled upon (read majority consensus). I’m still here & everyone is ok to ppc another day. Dialogue is a two way street, and as such by stating an opinion or taking an ideological side’ we open ourselves up to criticism and in a ppc forum who’d a-thunk that debate would’ve went any other way LOL 
If you don’t have the emotional maturity to engage & argue a point without feeling attacked, it makes great sense not to. Our own camaraderie & allegiance towards each other often marches us down that path anyways. It’s part of maturing I suppose or “growing up” And while I’m firmly in my 40s, I fully acknowledge that many here may be younger - I may in fact have 20, even 30 years of life experience on some of the forum members.
So at the end of the day, it’s the internet. In the same way its our responsibility to remember there are people on the other end, equally so it’s the participants responsibility to understand their own role/place in the dialogue & understand the repercussions that may occur by participating.
That & Im right & you’re still wrong hah
If you don’t have the emotional maturity to engage & argue a point without feeling attacked, it makes great sense not to. Our own camaraderie & allegiance towards each other often marches us down that path anyways. It’s part of maturing I suppose or “growing up” And while I’m firmly in my 40s, I fully acknowledge that many here may be younger - I may in fact have 20, even 30 years of life experience on some of the forum members.
So at the end of the day, it’s the internet. In the same way its our responsibility to remember there are people on the other end, equally so it’s the participants responsibility to understand their own role/place in the dialogue & understand the repercussions that may occur by participating.
That & Im right & you’re still wrong hah
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Well said. Everyone has their own opinions and, in the end, that is ok. We all can look past that and be united with a common passion for these amazing systems.Yanno I was one of the folks who agreed (& still do) with the premise of that video, and with that, my POV was dog piled upon. I’m still here & everyone is ok to ppc another day. Dialogue is a two way street, and as such by stating an opinion or taking an ideological side’ we open ourselves up to criticism and in a ppc forum who’d a-thunk that debate would’ve went any other way LOL
If you don’t have the emotional maturity to engage & argue a point without feeling attacked, it makes great sense not to. Our own camaraderie & allegiance towards each other often marches us down that path anyways.
So at the end of the day, it’s just the internet. That & Im right & you’re still wrong hah
I am not even sure I know what an "average user" is LOL. In any case, I concur with @RogerWilco6502 that we can all get along nicely. Over and out
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One shouldn't have to feel defensive merely for expressing their opinion. Furthermore, if memory serves correctly, people went to the mods to have posts they didn't agree with removed. IMO it went well beyond someone feeling defensive.
You’re correct. But that’s exactly what I meant. All of us knew how to make that machine perform much better than it was in the video. I was using my statement as lack of a better phrase.
Yes, I was really bothered by the lack of research on the machine. And the overall tone of the video.
I personally have an issue with people who always think newer is always better. I drive old cars for example. My newest vehicle and probably the newest one I’ll ever own is a 2003. The other one I drive a lot is a 1989. I hate new cars, I think they’re ugly and they train people how to drive inattentively with their self-driving features.
...Just as an example of my mindset on using/keeping older things, and why I’m passionate about it.
I am exactly the same way. I’m sure most of you have noticed.I have a tendency to get worked up over what others say a little too easily sometimes. I do my best to keep it civil however. 😅
You make a good point, the only person who can say what I'm doing is worthless is me.
Indeed. I have way too many computers. My DD is a 12 core Mac Pro 5,1. And I have various PCs, including thinkpads and Dells. I have two 4c/8t i7 PC laptops, but 9/10 times I use a PowerBook G4 as my DD portable. Because I just like it.
Me either. I can tell you what an average user was 10 years ago. Today, the “average user” is a smartphone user. They might have a chromebook for typing if they need to do that for work or school.I am not even sure I know what an "average user" is LOL. In any case, I concur with @RogerWilco6502 that we can all get along nicely. Over and out
I also concur. We all get along famously😊
I think you meant to quote me and not AppleuserI am not even sure I know what an "average user" is LOL. In any case, I concur with @RogerWilco6502 that we can all get along nicely. Over and out
Absolutely, Our population is incredibly diverse and with that, varied response and reaction. Users are literally growing up (ie: learning how to be social) while participating here every single day and stuff like that is going to happen from time to time. Discourse happens, young people learning to be adults happens, users learning how to disagree without burning down their community happens - truthfully it never stops. This should be no surprise - it is not to me anyhow. This forum is certainly not perfect as humanity never was, is not and never will be perfect. What I do judge this forum by are its particpants ethos of helping others, openness to newbies, and the attempt to get along, to agree to disagree - again do this without nuking their community. That is why I believe this forum hands down is the best on MR. Not because it is a perfect utopian PowerPC love in or any of that idealistic horse crap because we all know it is not but because of the concerted individual efforts to collectively move forward in a friendly and helpful way.
In light of the positive and especially negative power & influence that one user can have on a preexisting community, it is the attempt this community makes to be civil and coexist within dissent that makes this a great place to participate in.
My .02 cents anyhow.
@djjeff the main antagonist in the thread you refer to continually shifted and bent his argument to every extent to avoid ever acknowledging an opposing point - when that ran out of steam, he simply posted lies about myself - which he could never provide evidence for because they were lies. Even though in the 'real world' this was slander, he was given a free pass to do this again and again.
The fact you refer to this individual as an antagonist supports my opening statement in this thread. This didn't appear to be someone who was attempting to antagonize you but rather offer a different, and supporting (of the YTer) point of view. Personally I think you were the antagonist. You started the thread with a chip on your shoulder and, IMO, you criticized any who didn't fall in line with you.
@Amethyst1 The keyword here is just that; what he's doing. Having a point of view is one thing, but when you start defacing iconic designs made from ageing and increasingly brittle plastic with your own artistic sense, even if it is a good and legitimately talented sense, you cross into another territory entirely. It is no longer about being of an opinion, but about basic hardware preservation and preventing what can be considered needless damage to what could also be considered borderline historical artifacts.
Think of it this way, would The Louvre allow a guest to paint a mustache onto the Mona Lisa instead of their own blank canvas? The guest and a handful of other people may be of the opinion that it enhances the portrait, but it is actually a rather disrespectful act to a historically and culturally significant object. And then what do you think dedicated art appreciators will have to say about it? At a glance, they probably wouldn't be too thrilled to see their beloved icon edited with modern input.
He can do as he pleases because he is in this case afforded the legal right to do so, but that still does not undermine our ability to publicly express extensive discontent with what he publicly chooses to do over and over again in the manner that he is.
And rightly so, lest we live in some terrifying world where dissenting opinion and consequence of action doesn't exist.
Thus with that established, I maintain my position that opposite opinions not being accepted by this forum, as if this place existed to be some kind of intellectually-pleasurable echo chamber, is still false.
Think of it this way, would The Louvre allow a guest to paint a mustache onto the Mona Lisa instead of their own blank canvas? The guest and a handful of other people may be of the opinion that it enhances the portrait, but it is actually a rather disrespectful act to a historically and culturally significant object. And then what do you think dedicated art appreciators will have to say about it? At a glance, they probably wouldn't be too thrilled to see their beloved icon edited with modern input.
He can do as he pleases because he is in this case afforded the legal right to do so, but that still does not undermine our ability to publicly express extensive discontent with what he publicly chooses to do over and over again in the manner that he is.
And rightly so, lest we live in some terrifying world where dissenting opinion and consequence of action doesn't exist.
Thus with that established, I maintain my position that opposite opinions not being accepted by this forum, as if this place existed to be some kind of intellectually-pleasurable echo chamber, is still false.
Perhaps we can at least define what the average user is not. I suggest the average user is not someone who purchases a 15 year old computer with an architecture that was abandoned by its manufacturer 15 years ago and requires constant tweaking to do basic web browsing on today's Internet. That seem reasonable?I am not even sure I know what an "average user" is LOL. In any case, I concur with @RogerWilco6502 that we can all get along nicely. Over and out
@djjeff Excellent; this proves my point entirely. Let it be known that you think one man is the antagonist, and that he thinks another is the antagonist. What is anyone going to do, force their perspective upon another and silence opposing thought?
Dronecatcher may be the antagonist in your point of view, and somebody else may have been the antagonist from his, but it matters not because this is a months-old topic that was put away long ago, and in fact, I can't even remember much of what happened anymore.
You both reserve the rights to your opinions over what color the water under the bridge appears to be. However, conflicts of this type are not worth it, are exercises in futility, and demonstratively serve to only waste everyone's time and generate needless cortisol. Let us leave it at that and go about the day in peace, please.
Dronecatcher may be the antagonist in your point of view, and somebody else may have been the antagonist from his, but it matters not because this is a months-old topic that was put away long ago, and in fact, I can't even remember much of what happened anymore.
You both reserve the rights to your opinions over what color the water under the bridge appears to be. However, conflicts of this type are not worth it, are exercises in futility, and demonstratively serve to only waste everyone's time and generate needless cortisol. Let us leave it at that and go about the day in peace, please.
Yes, it is solely opinion. No matter how you try and twist your opinion into a fact it will never be so.
My opponent on that thread constantly misquoted me, constantly re-imagined what I had said, constantly made inferences about what I really meant. You appear to be in full agreement with him - that's fine, I have no more to say about it.
I didn't observe any of that. What I observed was your attempting to distract from a point you didn't agree with.
@z970mp - Are you suggesting that a mass-produced laptop is equivalent to a truly unique and priceless piece of art like the Mona Lisa then? If so, that's... peculiar. Anyway, I'll call it a day now.
Marcel Duchamp might have had something to say about that.
@djjeff My point that this proves is that we in fact presently live in a world where dissenting opinion and consequence of action exists. And just as well, let it be so.
@Amethyst1 I am not, and as a matter of fact the iBook G3 Clamshell does not match with my personal taste at all. I do not personally think it is a work of art, but seeing as how it boasts such a niche-within-a-niche following in culture, I saw it to be a rather fitting, if imperfect, analogy. Regardless, you may disagree with it as you see fit.
@Appleuser201 If memory serves, essentially, he kept posting half-truths and borderline false information into many different threads. These actions went on to be a painfully obvious thorn in the forum's side, and after receiving multiple suspensions in advance and who knows how many warnings, he was eventually banned as the moderators saw fit.
Seeing as how he occasionally returns however, there is cause to believe it may not have been a permanent ban, but perhaps one lasting a year, or two years.
@RhianB I disagree. If someone doesn't have the emotional maturity to engage and argue a point without feeling attacked, they ought to do so while feeling attacked so that they can afford themselves the opportunity to grow out of it and realize that they were (in most all cases) never actually attacked. It is the action of conquering a personal shortcoming, which benefits not only everyone they speak to, but most importantly, themselves.
I will go so far as to make public that this is, as you say, quite literally the position I found myself in since joining in June 2017. I came to get help with Linux, and ended up staying for the unique culture and community, which I am (evidently) the type of individual to naturally be attracted to.
That is of course not to say that I did not at first have a heaping share of conflicts and debates, and at times needed to take extended breaks away from the forum as a result. However, they were very good because I socially grew with each one while learning a thing or two in the process. It is for this express reason why I remain grateful to you all today, for affording me that opportunity to develop these skills with people as well as learn countless life lessons that I wouldn't have likely ever gotten the opportunity to otherwise (a natural side effect from being raised almost exclusively on the Internet).
But perhaps that is a song I have now sung one too many times...
In any case however, this is not about me.
@Amethyst1 I am not, and as a matter of fact the iBook G3 Clamshell does not match with my personal taste at all. I do not personally think it is a work of art, but seeing as how it boasts such a niche-within-a-niche following in culture, I saw it to be a rather fitting, if imperfect, analogy. Regardless, you may disagree with it as you see fit.
@Appleuser201 If memory serves, essentially, he kept posting half-truths and borderline false information into many different threads. These actions went on to be a painfully obvious thorn in the forum's side, and after receiving multiple suspensions in advance and who knows how many warnings, he was eventually banned as the moderators saw fit.
Seeing as how he occasionally returns however, there is cause to believe it may not have been a permanent ban, but perhaps one lasting a year, or two years.
@RhianB I disagree. If someone doesn't have the emotional maturity to engage and argue a point without feeling attacked, they ought to do so while feeling attacked so that they can afford themselves the opportunity to grow out of it and realize that they were (in most all cases) never actually attacked. It is the action of conquering a personal shortcoming, which benefits not only everyone they speak to, but most importantly, themselves.
I will go so far as to make public that this is, as you say, quite literally the position I found myself in since joining in June 2017. I came to get help with Linux, and ended up staying for the unique culture and community, which I am (evidently) the type of individual to naturally be attracted to.
That is of course not to say that I did not at first have a heaping share of conflicts and debates, and at times needed to take extended breaks away from the forum as a result. However, they were very good because I socially grew with each one while learning a thing or two in the process. It is for this express reason why I remain grateful to you all today, for affording me that opportunity to develop these skills with people as well as learn countless life lessons that I wouldn't have likely ever gotten the opportunity to otherwise (a natural side effect from being raised almost exclusively on the Internet).
But perhaps that is a song I have now sung one too many times...
In any case however, this is not about me.
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