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Official: The New Apple TV

I'm a little surprised so many people are disappointed by the new Apple TV. Apple likes to cater to the Average Joe's out there and I think they've achieved that here with something that costs only $99 and is so easy to set up and operate that my Grandma could do it. This is typically their philosophy so I'm really not all that surprised by this. For enthusiasts there's the Mac Mini, a cheap PC, or something you already have (my iMac with Plex is used for this purpose).

I liken the new Apple TV to the new Kindle (does only a few specific things but does them well and is finally at a price point that makes sense). If either are too limited for you then you step up to the Mac Mini and iPad respectively.

The only criticism I have is the lack of the rumored App Store. I think Apple had a real opportunity here to create yet another iTunes store revenue stream and make this device potentially much more versatile, while still maintaining its simplicity. Maybe this will come in the future.

-PN
 
They blew it again

Again it is an endless 'pocket-picking' rental cycle.

The damn thing should be called "iRental."

Many people have all sorts of archived clips they want to watch on TV. And they would like one central box to do it with, even if it accesses your other computers - obviously expandable storage would be good too for a library of clips, etc..

But again they really are missing the mark with this.

iPod, iTunes was a hit because you could rip your library and access it. The iTunes store was NOT the reason Apple had success with people adopting the iPod - it just wasn't. Rental is a convenience, not the sole driver.

Apple is screwing up by thinking we are just cash cows for their various revenue stream schemes, (i.e. iAD).

In this arena, Apple just does not get it. They will lose the media center war if they keep thinking like this.
 
I'm still working through this theory in my head (posted a variant somewhere else), but the smaller, memory-less AppleTV seems to be saying, for once and for all, that anyone who wants other codecs, larger storage and more processing can go and buy an HDMI-equipped Mini. Every time there's an iPod refresh, there's a hope that Apple will introduce a larger capacity model, and it never happens. If you don't want to stream your content from the networks/netflix/iTunes, there's a much more expensive niche to live in. Of course, Apple's ability to demarcate niches, or to put it another way, create mass markets, is not infallible, but its attempts to are consistent.
 
jjhny said:
Many people have all sorts of archived clips they want to watch on TV. And they would like one central box to do it with, even if it accesses your other computers - obviously expandable storage would be good too for a library of clips, etc..
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I think being tied to one PC is over.. it looks like you can access one or multiple PC's/Macs via a dropdown box from the ATV menu. So if you have an office PC, a living room PC, a Macbook and an iMac, you can choose between them instead of being tied to one computer.

Again, I could be wrong, but the demo heavily insinuated this is the case.
 
jjhny said:
Many people have all sorts of archived clips they want to watch on TV. And they would like one central box to do it with, even if it accesses your other computers - obviously expandable storage would be good too for a library of clips, etc..
Click to expand...

Do you even know what you're complaining about? Your "archived clips" are still watch-able on ATV from a central iTunes server.

"One central box to do it" is exactly the point of the new disk-less ATV. You have your Mac media server as a central point of storage for all your local media. You stream it to multiple cheap ATV's throughout the house. It all works.
 
I wonder if they will offer a software upgrade for those of us with an existing AppleTV so we can at least get the NetFlix ability.

For those of you complaining about the UK price, just buy one from the states and get it shipped to you if the price difference is that great.

-Troy
 
GermanSuplex said:
You're twisting things, but I'll cop to the 1080p. The USB port has never been supported by Apple for end-user use, and probably never will. It's just not what it's there for.
Click to expand...

I understand that. But 4G, USB3, Lightpeak, etc has never been supported by Apple either, but it will show up sooner or later.

It's not like they couldn't do it. The hackers showed us they certainly could. They just chose- apparently- NOT to do it. So once again, those interested in local storage of size (not hogging a bunch of the home bandwidth) have to hope the hackers bring a feature that it could have had right out of the box.

Do you think that Apple is NOT aware that lots of existing :apple:TV owners wanted flexible- and larger- storage... rather than having to leave a computer on all the time?
 
GermanSuplex said:
The current one does, and Steve mentioned HDMI takes your video and surround to the TV, so I don't see why not.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Not sure if I can live with 720P. 720P is fine for smaller TVs, but not for 60+. If I'm paying $4.99 for a movie rental, I want BluRay quality. At .99, 720P is okay....
 
GermanSuplex said:
...and there's a healthy market for iTunes-compatible converters.
Click to expand...

Sure - except that all those compatible converted movies and TV shows are now relegated to having to drill 5 menu levels down into the Computers option.

I don't care whether I've bought it, rented it, shot it with a camcorder, or archived my DVD collection - if I want to watch a movie, I should be able to find it in the Movies section - anything else is poor functional/UI design. They've completely ripped out all the integration of user content, shoved it off to the side, and crippled the device as solely an iTunes rental box.

Apple didn't dominate the music player market by making iPods clumsy for everything but iTunes-purchased music - they made it a good music player with an intuitive UI first, and a doorway to an online store second.

Screw up the intuitive integration, and many less people will buy the device - then all of those people will now use someone else's online store (or just download it).
 
As many have noted, the lack of local storage is an issue. I really do not want to leave my MacPro with dual monitors awake all the time. I use my AppleTV as my main music server. I do not want to have to have my computer awake to listen to music.

In my case, there is one other deletion that is a showstopper. Anyone else out there run a 2 (or more) zone audio system? I have speakers on my patio, powered by Zone 2 on my receiver. There are very few receivers out there that will output audio from a digital source (HDMI, optical, coax) to zone 2. With my present AppleTV, I simply hook up the analog audio outputs to an additional input on my receiver and I'm good to go.

I might have been able to use one of these to replace my Roku NetFlix player. However, I also use that for Pandora, so once again the lack of analog audio outputs make this a no go.

They should have done one of two things:

1. Offer a $199 version that is basically an update of the existing device. Keep all the connectivity and local storage and syncing capability, or...
2. Kept the old design around as the AppleTV Classic.

I'd give serious consideration to moving to some other (non-Apple) device, but I've got a lot of old DRM music from the iTunes store that won't play on anything else. Maybe it's time to do something about that...
 
nutmac said:
I am sick of this chart. I have 55" 1080p and I can see the difference.
Click to expand...

You'd need a 55" 720p tv sitting right next to your 55" 1080p, and preferably the same specs (except the 720 vs 1080) from the same video source to really be able to "see" the difference. If you're talking about "my friends 720p 50" tv doesn't look as good as my 1080p" you aren't doing a real test. Cnet did - http://reviews.cnet.com/720p-vs-1080p-hdtv/
 
hitekalex said:
Do you even know what you're complaining about? Your "archived clips" are still watch-able on ATV from a central iTunes server.

"One central box to do it" is exactly the point of the new disk-less ATV. You have your Mac media server as a central point of storage for all your local media. You stream it to multiple cheap ATV's throughout the house. It all works.
Click to expand...

I think I spoke too soon, but having read the line below (on the Apple site) I was thinking, oh no, not again, AppleTV capabilities crippled for another "payperview" business model:

"HD movie and TV show rentals play over the Internet to your widescreen TV, while music and photos stream from your computer."

I think my kneejerk reaction is that Apple's new overall approach is to see us all as cash cows ready to be harvested.

AppleTV seems more to be a sort of a media "satellite" in the same sense of the iPod, not really a "media center" exactly.

I was looking for the media center, hence my cranky reaction.
 
mchalebk said:
In my case, there is one other deletion that is a showstopper. Anyone else out there run a 2 (or more) zone audio system? I have speakers on my patio, powered by Zone 2 on my receiver. There are very few receivers out there that will output audio from a digital source (HDMI, optical, coax) to zone 2. With my present AppleTV, I simply hook up the analog audio outputs to an additional input on my receiver and I'm good to go.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's me too on the zone 2 (need a pair of analog out jacks). I'm guessing the desire for "smaller" and the price target of "$99" had a lot to do with killing analog stereo and component. Maybe the 99 cent rentals had to be piped via HDMI so that the control built into HDMI against copying could also be offered to the Studios?

In any event, I'm with you. A few more jacks- stereo audio & component- would have been great. Maybe the hackers can hack the USB port toward normality, and then we can wire our zone 2 via USB? (I got to tell you, it's a shame this thing was announced just a few hours ago and I'm already hoping the hackers add very basic functionality that could have been there courtesy of Apple).
 
jjhny said:
AppleTV seems more to be a sort of a media "satellite" in the same sense of the iPod, not really a "media center" exactly.

I was looking for the media center, hence my cranky reaction.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for the media center - the new HDMI-equipped Mac Mini is the perfect device.

Neither the new nor the old AppleTV is designed a media center, no surprise there. And frankly, I wouldn't want it to be. I already have my Mini.
 
mchenrytl said:
I wonder if they will offer a software upgrade for those of us with an existing AppleTV so we can at least get the NetFlix ability.
Click to expand...

I don't think so. Netflix streaming requires hardware acceleration, which isn't possible with the ancient hardware of old Apple TV. The hacking community has been trying to add NetFlix support in the old Apple TV for ages - it's not there because the hardware can't do it.
 
hitekalex said:
If you are looking for the media center - the new HDMI-equipped Mac Mini is the perfect device.

Neither the new nor the old AppleTV is designed a media center, no surprise there. And frankly, I wouldn't want it to be. I already have my Mini.
Click to expand...

So now we have to hope that the best thing about the :apple:TV- old or new- becomes the new front row. I'd really like to get the nice, simple UI on better hardware- mac mini, or something else. I'm not overly concerned with "smaller" for a box that is put on a shelf, not carried around with me, etc. I would have happily paid $399 for an updated one with 1080p out, the old jacks, a normal USB, flexible local storage (either through that USB or on the network). Apps would have been delicious icing, so that it could do more than Apple chooses to allow it to do.

And before the "720p'ers" chime in, I desire 1080p because I've got 4 years of better-than-720p shot home movies via relatively cheap consumer camcorders, rendered in Apple iMovie, playable in Apple Quicktime & iTunes, storable in iTunes, and an HDTV that can play back 1080HD. I just can't pump it from iTunes to that TV via the old- and now the new- :apple:TV. I don't care about 1080p content not being in the iTunes store, or bandwidth between Apple servers and my home, etc. I'd just like an iTunes-friendly way to watch precious home movies in their fullest glory. Don't give me that "you can't see the difference crap" either; comparing a home movie rendered down to 720p for :apple:TV vs. hooking the camcorder directly to the TV and watching the same video is night & day. Seeing "the chart" doesn't change the fact that everyone at my house can easily see the difference... to the point that we sometimes hook up the camcorder direct to watch the "good video".

Mac Mini looks like it wins my money if the :apple:TV interface becomes the new front row.
 
colinmack said:
Sure - except that all those compatible converted movies and TV shows are now relegated to having to drill 5 menu levels down into the Computers option.

I don't care whether I've bought it, rented it, shot it with a camcorder, or archived my DVD collection - if I want to watch a movie, I should be able to find it in the Movies section - anything else is poor functional/UI design. They've completely ripped out all the integration of user content, shoved it off to the side, and crippled the device as solely an iTunes rental box.

Apple didn't dominate the music player market by making iPods clumsy for everything but iTunes-purchased music - they made it a good music player with an intuitive UI first, and a doorway to an online store second.

Screw up the intuitive integration, and many less people will buy the device - then all of those people will now use someone else's online store (or just download it).
Click to expand...

If you bought it on iTunes, you can still watch it. If you converted from DVD, you can still watch it. If you shot it with a camcorder or iPhone or whatever, you can watch it. In fact, you can probably stream from your iPhone right to your Apple TV.

Your iTunes library is still accessible from your Apple TV. You just can't store it on the Apple TV any longer.

Yes, it has to be in a certain format, but remind you, ripping hollywood DVD's is illegal, I think. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple has certain rules in place for its own devices to satisfy studios. I doubt if Apple support for VIDEO_TS folders to Apple TV they'd be getting any sort of $0.99 rentals.
 
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