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Blocking access to the boot loader prevents boot loader malware; this sort of thing has been possible for like 15-20 years:


Short version:
insecure boot loader = malware can basically turn your entire OS into a VM, be invisible to inside the VM (i.e. your OS) malware scanning, and do whatever the hell it wants. this is why protecting the boot loader is important! This was demonstrated nearly 20 years ago.

If malicious software can get control of the boot loader, all bets are off - nothing inside the OS can be trusted. And if you open the boot loader entirely to any software, you open it to malicous software.
I think you're selling Apple short on what they accomplished with Apple Silicon Mac boot security.

They managed to square the circle: although the computer supports and defaults to full boot security (all boot software components cryptographically signed and verified to come from Apple without tampering), the computer's owner can use recoveryOS to set up an unsigned OS. Unsigned OS containers exist side-by-side with fully secured containers, and cannot compromise them. To cap it all off, the way Apple implemented this permits others to implement their own fully secure boot chain on top of Apple's. This is because Apple never actually disables signature checking, but they do permit recoveryOS to enroll locally-generated signatures into the Secure Enclave for bootloaders the user says they're willing to trust. This means they can detect any subsequent alteration of that bootloader, even though it's not signed by Apple, and refuse to boot it until the user has redone the local signing process (meaning, boot into recoveryOS and go through the procedure for setting the most relaxed boot security mode on that OS container).

This is how Asahi Linux boots. They don't currently implement a secure boot chain (signature checking stops at the first stage Asahi bootloader), but plan to do it someday after implementing higher priority features. (This may have changed after Hector stepped down, don't know if the project's current leadership and members are as interested in secure boot as he was.)

The only downside to this system is that it's much less convenient to alter Mac boot settings than it used to be, as you can only manipulate Secure Enclave signatures and OS container security settings from inside recoveryOS. It's the price of Apple making it impossible for successful malware attacks against one OS container to compromise the security of other containers.
 
I'm still turning on a 2015 iMac and I totally agree :D Don't think overall support is needed but security updates seem reasonably if it would really mean anything. Of course this is not within the realm of our reality.
A $150 Samsung phone bought today gets 7 years of security updates. I think 10 years for a desktop, sometimes costing thousands of dollars is reasonable.
 
I think things need to be different starting with the Apple Silicon Macs. It's now 100% Apple controlled product end to end, from hardware to software.

They are no longer bound to support Intel CPU/GPU or AMD GPU, don't have to rely on those companies to provide updated drivers or other support.

IMO OS support should be for 10 years, for basic things like security updates and things that allow the machine to function in a future world like provided updated browsers. You can segment newer features as the hardware requirements dictate it beyond a certain age, of course, like I wouldn't expect a M1 iMac to support the full features of Apple Intelligence in 2030. But basic features that are present now should continue to function and continue to be improved.

Besides, the difference the M1-M3 is not a lot, in terms of general computing power, I'm not talking about the Pro/Max/Ultra variants. M1-M2 especially was not a big jump. The bigger issue will be the RAM, which is of course not upgradeable, and the vast majority of these machines sold to average consumers were sold with 8GB ram, much to our collective whine.

So it will be interesting to see how Apple handles the M1 series full OS update (not security only) once that 7 year time frame rolls around. It won't be fair if they discontinue OS updates for M1, but M2 will be supported purely because it's newer and not because it's that much better.
They are rumored to be doing just that this year by discontinuing the 2019 iMac while continuing to support the 2020 version. Can’t claim it’s the T2 security chip either, as the 2018 Mini is reportedly getting axed.

Planned obsolescence, plain and simple.
 
So what you're saying is you will not be able to use your mac after 7 years? You've been a member on this forum long enough to know that there are many members using very old Macs, well beyond 10 years, never mind 7. How is apple restricting them exactly?
That is correct. I will not be able to use it safely, as it was intended to be used.

Safari will be unsafe, private relay (that I am paying for) can no longer function, iCloud services will break.

It is essentially no longer a Mac when Apple arbitrarily decides to stop supporting it.
 
Back then, in the early days of personal computing? 7 years of support was considered a long time. Now that technology has improved by leaps and bounds, I feel that support for computers should be extended to 10 years. Like cars nowadays, had improved via design and technology to last at least 12–15 years under good care and maintenance.
 
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That is correct. I will not be able to use it safely, as it was intended to be used.

Safari will be unsafe, private relay (that I am paying for) can no longer function, iCloud services will break.

It is essentially no longer a Mac when Apple arbitrarily decides to stop supporting it.
What versions of OS X/ macOS is Safari compromised in?
 
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That is correct. I will not be able to use it safely, as it was intended to be used.

Safari will be unsafe, private relay (that I am paying for) can no longer function, iCloud services will break.

It is essentially no longer a Mac when Apple arbitrarily decides to stop supporting it.
I'll finally bite on this fiasco, not all workflows are online. My 2007 Mac Pro that runs Final Cut Studio 2 on Mac OS 10.6.8 Snow Leopard has not been told it is no longer a Macintosh. However I can't legally install App Store purchased owned licenses of Final Cut Pro X on my 2011 Macbook Pro running Mac OS 10.13 (edited 12/13) High Sierra after a HDD failure. When I could have sworn just a few months ago I did. I also am hoping that the United States Government solves my problem. Thanks for the Insightful thread.
 
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Former Apple employee here, you’re stating a lot of facts about Dell while intentionally leaving out the facts about Apple.
AppleCare for Enterprise is available and offers 24/7 onsite support, available for those in Enterprise just like Dell’s services.
If you deploy a minimum of 200 devices, yes. And I am aware that there was a time that Apple extended on-site support to consumers with AppleCare as well (that was way back in the PowerPC days).

Being a small firm of only 30 employees, we wouldn't be able to take advantage of AppleCare for Enterprise. We can, however, take advantage of Dell's offerings.

It’s also been proven over and over that Macs are cheaper to deploy over the long term over PCs. They have a higher acquisition cost initially but cost less to maintain and replace over time compared to PCs.
I've seen the studies and I've lived on both sides of that fence. I spent nearly a decade working at two AASPs (one which was an Apple specialty store long before Apple stores were a thing and continues to operate as one today). I have clients that deploy both Macs and PCs today, and a good number of my family members and colleagues use Macs because of recommendations that I gave them.

All that has ever actually been "proven" is that it is generally less expensive to maintain well-built computers that are used for only a few specialty applications, in smaller networking environments, with homogeneous hardware and software configurations and with smaller security footprints. PCs have historically been used for a larger variety of software, deployed in much larger, heterogeneous networking environments with much more complex user security requirements, have a very wide variety of components ranging from very well-built high-end enterprise components to cheap bargain-bin trash. It is no shocker that the latter would be more expensive to maintain than the former, especially in mixed environments (where these studies were typically done) where the Macs are generally relegated to marketing and design departments or used by high-level executives with very light application requirements.
 
I'll finally bite on this fiasco, not all workflows are online. My 2007 Mac Pro that runs Final Cut Studio 2 on Mac OS 10.6.8 Snow Leopard has not been told it is no longer a Macintosh. However I can't legally install App Store purchased owned licenses of Final Cut Pro X on my 2011 Macbook Pro running Mac OS 10.12 High Sierra after a HDD failure. When I could have sworn just a few months ago I did. I also am hoping that the United States Government solves my problem. Thanks for the Insightful thread.
What are you on about? Do you get an error downloading X?
 
As computer's capabilities grows, even a computer from 2013 are still perfectly capable of of being used as daily drivers for most computing tasks. Therefore, it is perfectly to expect a decade old computer still be used as of today.

The main problem for Mac is not its hardware longevity, it is rather software related. Once Apple decides to drop support of an operating system, some Macs will stop receiving software update forever. This means, if a Mac stuck with anything before macOS Ventura, or soon macOS Sonoma, you can expect software support to drop rather quickly.

This isn't much of issue with Intel Mac, since alternative operating system can be installed. Be Windows or Linux, you can at least run some type of modern operating systems that allow you to continue use it.

But if Apple Silicon Mac ends up with like iPhone, where no meaningful alternative, which means Apple silicon Mac will be come paper weight faster than Intel Mac.
 
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It’s also been proven over and over that Macs are cheaper to deploy over the long term over PCs. They have a higher acquisition cost initially but cost less to maintain and replace over time compared to PCs.

I don't know about this. But the corporation that I working for and I know few other corporation don't really buy PCs upfront, they lease the PC.

All the Lenovo or Dell PC that my corporate use are all leased and head office redeploy new PCs every 4-5 years. When the lease term is up, they got send back and resold as certified refurbished PC.
 
What are you on about? Do you get an error downloading X?
I'm getting an error attempting to download X on High Sierra, whereas its app store is asking me to buy Final Cut Pro only available for Mac OS 14+*. Then i'm not able to readily view my purchased or older versions anymore and that was where I have stopped for now as I have newer Macs that are fully compatible with version 11+ of Final Cut Pro X.
 
I'll finally bite on this fiasco, not all workflows are online. My 2007 Mac Pro that runs Final Cut Studio 2 on Mac OS 10.6.8 Snow Leopard has not been told it is no longer a Macintosh. However I can't legally install App Store purchased owned licenses of Final Cut Pro X on my 2011 Macbook Pro running Mac OS 10.13 (edited 12/13) High Sierra after a HDD failure. When I could have sworn just a few months ago I did. I also am hoping that the United States Government solves my problem. Thanks for the Insightful thread.
I find these sorts of replies utterly bizarre.

The very idea of Apple providing 2 extra years of security support for their hardware makes some people very upset. I’ll never understand that attitude as long as I live.

Perfectly good computers are going to waste… and you like it that way, I suppose. Again, just bizarre (to me, anyway).
 
I just remembered that the 2017 iMac was being sold in the refurbished store when I bought my 2019 iMac.

The 2017 will no longer be receiving security updates only a few months from now.

You could have paid over $1,000 for a desktop computer and got less than 3 years of expected use out of it.

Shameful and inexcusable.
 
I find these sorts of replies utterly bizarre.

The very idea of Apple providing 2 extra years of security support for their hardware makes some people very upset. I’ll never understand that attitude as long as I live.

Perfectly good computers are going to waste… and you like it that way, I suppose. Again, just bizarre (to me, anyway).

2 year is no where enough in this day and age. A perfectly capable MacBook Pro 2017 with 16GB RAM, Core i7 Processor only capable to run macOS Ventura. Once the October hits, it will no longer been supported.

Once Apple drops macOS Ventura, you can expect major software developers longer support Ventura in lightning speed and you get a paper weight.

I believe this machines should at least be supported until 2027, 10 years of support is bar minimum this day.
 
2 year is no where enough in this day and age. A perfectly capable MacBook Pro 2017 with 16GB RAM, Core i7 Processor only capable to run macOS Ventura. Once the October hits, it will no longer been supported.

Once Apple drops macOS Ventura, you can expect major software developers longer support Ventura in lightning speed and you get a paper weight.

I believe this machines should at least be supported until 2027, 10 years of support is bar minimum this day.
That’s what I’m saying. They currently support for around 8 years (some models less). I believe it should be a *minimum* of 2 extra years, for a total of 10.
 
To be clear, you should be able to buy a Mac anywhere (eBay, refurb store, women in lake handing it out), at any time, get a sale price on it, and continue to use new versions of macOS or Safari on it for decades, am I getting this right?

What does Apple do when they stop selling a machine but, say, a seller on eBay has stock? Send out the hit squad and take those machines back? DMCA the listings? Fire the computers into the sun? Same scenario, but it's a Facebook Marketplace seller, what happens then? Last year, I bought some G3 and G4 vintage Macs for fun. Should I still be getting software updates? Can you help me understand the world you're proposing here?

Furthermore, I'm not sure you quite get how expensive legacy software is and how expensive software engineers are...I'm not an expert, but I've worked at some Bay Area SaaS companies, taken UX classes from Apple designers, from what I've seen, engineers ain't cheap. Moreover, who's going to want to work on that? Imagine applying to work as an engineer at Google when you worked at Apple and telling folks your experience was all in maintaining OSX 10.4. Who on earth would hire that engineer?

Was really hoping OP would illuminate this for me.
 
By who’s definition?
By the definition of monopolies as I was taught while studying economics. It is not a monolith concept and varies from country to country, economist to economist and linguist to linguist. Here in the UK, Apple controls enough of its markets to warrant attention from the Competition and Markets Authority and has been under investigation for some time. Have fun applying the one definition you are familiar with to the entire world.
 
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My issue is that a perfectly awesome personal computer may turn into a paperweight clump of e-waste 2 years from now for no reason other than Apple's planned obsolescence strategy.

I don't think it's a wild request that the 3rd largest company on planet earth provide bare-bones security updates for the computers they sell, for a set period of say 10 years.

In the 1990s, it would have been an unreasonable request, as technology was progressing too fast to make this workable. But today, the PC is a mature product and the computer you buy today should still be perfectly usable 10 years from now.

Don't sell me a bunch of lies about "going GREEN" and then brick my PC for no other reason than you want me to buy a new one.
People like to disagree it seems, but I don’t. I pulled the trigger to get an M MacBook Pro after my 2017 MBP STOPPED supporting collaborating in pages documents… it can still run the latest version of Pages, but you can’t share a document anymore, the UI elements are just gone, and opening a shared document is a bug riddled ordeal that only reveals it was once possible, but not anymore.
To even VIEW a shared document you have to use iCloudDotCom, which is far from a sustainable solution with a MacBook from 2017 for numerous reasons.
Collaboration was introduced in 2016…, iWork still gets updates but it always displays a window saying „update Pages or open on a new Mac“, ridiculous.
 
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