Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.

[maflynn]

The hardware is EOLed

If you look at the list I had, dell, hp, and System 76 (for linux systems) all have 5 years and under for their hardware being EOL'd

Had I purchased a Windows PC in 2022 instead of my iMac, I wouldn’t be facing this issue of losing support for my machine in only 2 years.

If you bought a Dell in 2022, you would be losing support in that in 2027. In googling this for the 2022 iMac, it seems to be showing that it may get EOL'd in 2029 or 2030.

Where are you seeing that the 2022 iMac will no longer be supported in 2025?

 

[dumastudetto]

If you look at the list I had, dell, hp, and System 76 (for linux systems) all have 5 years and under for their hardware being EOL'd


If you bought a Dell in 2022, you would be losing support in that in 2027. In googling this for the 2022 iMac, it seems to be showing that it may get EOL'd in 2029 or 2030.

Where are you seeing that the 2022 iMac will no longer be supported in 2025?

He bought a refurb for an older iMac from Apple in 2022.

I don't know why you keep quoting Dell, HP, etc. in terms of hardware support. They don't make the OS or prevent newer versions of Windows being installed on older hardware like Apple does. Hardware support with the OEMs in the Windows world is basically OEM-tuned BIOS/firmware updates.

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

I'm writing this on my 2014 Retina MacBook Pro using Windows 10 because the MacOS doesn't get security updates. It has been lightly used throughout the 10 years I've owned it and is still in great shape, screen, battery, keyboard, trackpad, etc. I will be installing Chrome OS Flex on it. I think that will get me another couple of years of use. Then maybe some form of Linux if would upgrade easily, just to run an up to date web browser.

Would love if Apple would make a Safari OS for old Macs. No way this will happen.

I sympathize with OP, but if his iMac misses out on the update this fall as anticipated, he will still get 5 years of security updates. Edit: I meant 5 years total, 3 years of OS updates and 2 more years of security updates, with support ending in Fall 2027...

After it stops getting updates, turn the iMac into a monitor https://www.cultofmac.com/how-to/use-imac-as-monitor and add an up to date 2027 Mac Mini M6 and you will be a happy man.

 

[dumastudetto]

I'm writing this on my 2014 Retina MacBook Pro using Windows 10 because the MacOS doesn't get security updates. It has been lightly used throughout the 10 years I've owned it and is still in great shape, screen, battery, keyboard, trackpad, etc. I will be installing Chrome OS Flex on it. I think that will get me another couple of years of use. Then maybe some form of Linux if would upgrade easily, just to run an up to date web browser.

Would love if Apple would make a Safari OS for old Macs. No way this will happen.

I sympathize with OP, but if his iMac misses out on the update this fall as anticipated, he will still get 5 years of security updates.

After it stops getting updates, turn the iMac into a monitor https://www.cultofmac.com/how-to/use-imac-as-monitor and add an up to date 2027 Mac Mini M6 and you will be a happy man.

It's 2 years of security updates once a macOS device can no longer receive the latest version..

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

It's 2 years of security updates once a macOS device can no longer receive the latest version..

Yes. I meant that he already got 3 years with his OS updates, plus 2 more after that stops.

 

[maflynn]

He bought a refurb for an older iMac from Apple in 2022.

@staypuftforums If you bought a used computer from Apple then yeah, I can see support being less then that of a brand new computer.

Sorry to sound harsh its buyer beware and as an informed consumer its expected that you're aware that you're buying an older computer that has less shelf life then if you bought a brand new computer.

If you bought an older refurbed dell, you'd be in the same exact position you are with apple (though I have no idea if Dell sells refurbs).

 

[dumastudetto]

Yes. I meant that he already got 3 years with his OS updates, plus 2 more after that stops.

Yeah. IIRC, 5 years total is what Apple told regulators in the UK (or EU) is what they commit to.

 

[alscotta]

Especially considering these machines are sometimes sold direct from Apple for 2 or more years between updates. Mac Mini went 4 years between updates at one time.

And then there’s Apple’s refurbished store, which is currently selling iMacs that were released in 2021. You buy it today and possibly only get 3 years of security updates.

Plus we have the used market to consider, where you can pick up an “obsolete” machine that is still perfectly usable (but not supported by Apple).

And yes I know you could switch to a different operating system (at least with Intel machines), but that defeats the whole purpose of owning a Mac.

Maybe the EU can take care of this. No doubt this creates far more e-waste than the USBC/lightning port fiasco ever did.

Restrict new OS versions to newer machines. I’m fine with that. It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

No.

 

[dumastudetto]

@staypuftforums If you bought a used computer from Apple then yeah, I can see support being less then that of a brand new computer.

Sorry to sound harsh its buyer beware and as an informed consumer its expected that you're aware that you're buying an older computer that has less shelf life then if you bought a brand new computer.

If you bought an older refurbed dell, you'd be in the same exact position you are with apple (though I have no idea if Dell sells refurbs).

Dell doesn't cut off support for new versions of Windows, so he wouldn't be in exactly the same position as he is with Apple. Dell only stop releasing proprietary BIOS updates, which almost nobody installs anyway because you have to go find them on an obscure webpage on the Dell support site and follow delicate install procedure.

 

[rgwebb]

For the prices of these devices?

Support it for it's "entire life"... which of course opens the question of how long that really is.

More than seven years at least.

Speaking from a corporate IT perspective, 7 years is on the top end of what you could hope from for a "professional" workstation. In my experience, most places tend to target 4 or 5 years service lifespan for a software developer's workstation. I would assume the same or even shorter in other extensive workflows. Of course, some places will opt for even shorter lifespans and others will stretch their lifespans to its limit.

I do not think 7 years of active support is bad. I do not think most organizations expect 7 year laptop lifespans anyway. For individuals, I would not recommend buying 2000 or more dollar laptops unless you have specific needs or will be expensing all or a portion of it to your business. If you do and are not maximizing its value relative to your income over the course of 7 years then that is a you problem not an Apple problem.

Edit: People will take umbrage with what I'm saying but, frankly, you need to start thinking of computers like a depreciating asset rather than an investment. Just as with cars, eventually it will cost more than it is worth to maintain it in a usable and useful state. Standards will change, it will become hard to find parts, you will be unable to leverage features only possible with new hardware. That is the fact of it. If you can't afford a 2000 dollar appliance that will essentially depreciate to no value besides its raw materials in 7-10 years then you need to interrogate your purchasing decisions. There is no future-proof computer out there and likely never will be.

 

[mlayer]

Put it down as an expensive lesson and factor it into future purchasing decisions.

People who bought Intel towards the start of the M series transition were always going to be burned to some extent. I'm surprised Apple hasn't gone faster in cutting off support for Intel machines. I wasn't expecting any Intel machines to be supported with the next version of macOS given a radical redesign is a perfect cutting off point.

The thing with Microsoft Windows is there are workarounds to get Windows 11 running perfectly on pretty much any PC runnings Windows 7 or Windows 10. With macOS, you have to trust OCLP to get a working install and there are some noticeable performance penalties and shortcomings if you do that.

Years ago (2016-17) I got an HP x2 Elite 1012 G1 tablet really cheap from TigerDirect. It had one of the crippled low-power Skylake CPUs (m5-6Y54), which plagued it when running Windows 8.1. It actually got better performance with Windows 10, though eventually driver support for its touchscreen was dropped - along with Windows 10's reduced touch interface. No chance of using Windows 11 with that machine.

A month ago I got a late 2015 iMac 5k (also Skylake) that I cleaned up and installed Boot Camp alongside Monterey. Windows 10 works happily with it, though the end is near for its Windows and Mac OS support. And that's fine. They're still usable machines. I also have an iMac G4 and a 12" PowerBook G4 that work and get no software support at all. Again that's OK, it's 20 years old. Those are like classic cars you might turn the ignition to rev the engine for a few minutes.

 

[tenjikuronin]

Had I purchased a Windows PC in 2022 instead of my iMac, I wouldn’t be facing this issue of losing support for my machine in only 2 years.

That is the bottom line response to all of this “what about Microsoft” stuff.

A Windows PC manufactured in 2019 and sold in 2022 will still be supported with Windows 11 into the foreseeable future. It will easily make it to 2029, assuming the hardware holds up.

The iMac I bought is EOL roughly 2 years from now. That is a massive difference.

The iMac [you] bought [on sale from eBay] to be clear for everyone on the thread.

The silence from OP is deafening as to my questions on what they propose Apples does about eBay sellers.

 

[koolzero]

I agree it's pretty ridiculous considering my 2011 MacBook Air with a measly 4GB of ram can run Windows 10 incredibly well. I even got it to run Windows 11 but there were too many issues and had to revert back to 10. But it's a much better Windows machine than it is an Apple machine, but I can dual boot into MacOS.

 

[Monotremata]

Things are so simple when you don't actually run a tech business and realize the cost to keep support going for an extended time.. Apple is a business that needs to bring in revenue to survive and continue.

That doesn't happen when everyone hangs on to their machine for 10+ years and Apple stops getting funded. What do you do when Foxconn or some other supplier no longer makes a part for it for whatever reason? Do you all promise to go buy an iPhone every year to fund that continuing support for the desktop machines and laptops? How many pay for Applecare?

Cant have your cake and eat it too, there has to be a line drawn somewhere or folks go out of business and then you get NO support, period.

@mlayer haha I still have my Titanium Powerbook around for OS 9 stuff when I need it, and can still pull out the B&W G3 or one of the G4s or G5 in the garage if I need to as well.

 

[Yvan256]

I’ll bite…

How long should Apple support their hardware?

To infinity, and beyond! /Pixar

Sent from my 2010 Mac mini.

 

[digimc]

Seven years is not that bad IMO. I mean yes it would be nice to get longer support, but for Apple the money is in you upgrading your hardware more often than not.

 

[staypuftforums]

If you bought a Dell in 2022, you would be losing support in that in 2027. In googling this for the 2022 iMac, it seems to be showing that it may get EOL'd in 2029 or 2030.

Please stop with the attempts to conflate hardware support and software support.

Any Dell manufactured in 2019 is running Windows 11 and there’s absolutely nothing to indicate those PCs won’t get years and years of future updates from Microsoft.

My iMac is reportedly not getting the next version of macOS, which means I’ve only got 2 hears of support left. Abysmal.

 

[staypuftforums]

Things are so simple when you don't actually run a tech business and realize the cost to keep support going for an extended time.. Apple is a business that needs to bring in revenue to survive and continue.

That doesn't happen when everyone hangs on to their machine for 10+ years and Apple stops getting funded. What do you do when Foxconn or some other supplier no longer makes a part for it for whatever reason? Do you all promise to go buy an iPhone every year to fund that continuing support for the desktop machines and laptops? How many pay for Applecare?

Cant have your cake and eat it too, there has to be a line drawn somewhere or folks go out of business and then you get NO support, period.

The third-largest company on planet earth will go out of business if they offer security updates for an extra 2 years.

Nobody could possibly believe such a thing.

 

[staypuftforums]

The iMac [you] bought [on sale from eBay] to be clear for everyone on the thread.

The silence from OP is deafening as to my questions on what they propose Apples does about eBay sellers.

Respectfully, your question doesn’t make sense.

My proposal is that Apple provides security updates for their PC hardware for a minimum of 10 years from the first date of sale. Example: 2015 MacBook Pro would be supported until 2025, 2019 iMac would be supported until 2029, etc.

It’s irrelevant where the consumer purchases the device.

 

[staypuftforums]

@staypuftforums If you bought a used computer from Apple then yeah, I can see support being less then that of a brand new computer.

Sorry to sound harsh its buyer beware and as an informed consumer its expected that you're aware that you're buying an older computer that has less shelf life then if you bought a brand new computer.

If you bought an older refurbed dell, you'd be in the same exact position you are with apple (though I have no idea if Dell sells refurbs).

It was not a refurb. It was purchased brand new and unopened. At the time, Apple was selling the same machine in the Apple returb store, along with the 2017 iMac that is losing all support in a few months.

Any Dell that was manufactured in 2019 is capable of running Windows 11 now and well into the foreseeable future. Likely for many, many years to come.

 

[PlayUltimate]

It was not a refurb. It was purchased brand new and unopened. At the time, Apple was selling the same machine in the Apple returb store, along with the 2017 iMac that is losing all support in a few months.

Any Dell that was manufactured in 2019 is capable of running Windows 11 now and well into the foreseeable future. Likely for many, many years to come.

sigh. I am using an iPad Mini2 (released in 2012) running iOS 12.5.7. I cannot update it at all. But, Messages works. Safari works. Most features of Apple Notes work. I can watch all AppleTV shows. And I watched something on Netflix while using an elliptical this AM. Just because it's old does not mean that it stops working. Old hardware often cannot support the demands of new software. Therefore, don't update beyond security updates. I know many that never move to a new OS/iOS

 

[Thehangmn]

My position is that it should be 10 years from the date of release.

So… what is your complaint? If they stop doing software updates your iMac in 2 years it will be 8 years old at that point and will still work, you just won’t get the latest OS. Should be totally usable until 2030 or later.

 

[WhisperingBobcat]

sigh. I am using an iPad Mini2 (released in 2012) running iOS 12.5.7. I cannot update it at all. But, Messages works. Safari works. Most features of Apple Notes work. I can watch all AppleTV shows. And I watched something on Netflix while using an elliptical this AM. Just because it's old does not mean that it stops working. Old hardware often cannot support the demands of new software. Therefore, don't update beyond security updates. I know many that never move to a new OS/iOS

Dude, sometimes it is just time to upgrade if you can afford $300 to $500 every 13 years.

 

[Rodan52]

I'm puzzled by the whole premise of this thread:.

Only 7 years of support from release date is unacceptable for a $2000+ personal computer.​

Not only is it inaccurate it's unlikely to be an issue for the majority of users even if it were.

I purchased a 2021 M1 14" MBP in 2023 on special. So, it's coming up to 3 years old for me and 5 years old in terms of year of manufacture running the current macOS with AI and still getting all of the current updates of course. It gets used a lot every day. I expect that I will need to replace it in roughly 2-3 years. By then I will have had 5-6 years of service and the device by model will be effectively 7-8 years old. I have repeated this pattern of cycling my primary computer for the last 3 MBP's. For an average of $2,000 per device even at 5 years of use thats only $400 per year. I spend considerably more than that on software so, great value.

I get that users who have a 10+ year old fully functional desktop Mac might think that having to replace it just to get current features and security is unfair but that is down to the pace of progress in computer technology. There are whole web sites devoted to maintaining "vintage" Macs but surely no one expects the original designers of a 10 year old Mac to have been able to predict the hardware requirements or software developments 10 years on.

So, given the average life of a Mac at around 5 years 7 years of support seems entirely reasonable to me even in the few cases that it applies.

 

[Howard2k]

Especially considering these machines are sometimes sold direct from Apple for 2 or more years between updates. Mac Mini went 4 years between updates at one time.

And then there’s Apple’s refurbished store, which is currently selling iMacs that were released in 2021. You buy it today and possibly only get 3 years of security updates.

Plus we have the used market to consider, where you can pick up an “obsolete” machine that is still perfectly usable (but not supported by Apple).

And yes I know you could switch to a different operating system (at least with Intel machines), but that defeats the whole purpose of owning a Mac.

Maybe the EU can take care of this. No doubt this creates far more e-waste than the USBC/lightning port fiasco ever did.

Restrict new OS versions to newer machines. I’m fine with that. It’s refusing to provide basic security updates that is the main issue here.

I agree, security updates feel like they should be longer. But 7 years is not outrageous either.

And you can always choose to not do any banking etc., on the device, or you can choose the third party options to continue to get updated OS support.