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Former Apple employee here, you’re stating a lot of facts about Dell while intentionally leaving out the facts about Apple.

AppleCare for Enterprise is available and offers 24/7 onsite support, available for those in Enterprise just like Dell’s services.

Here is a link for more info: https://www.apple.com/ca/support/professional/enterprise/

It’s also been proven over and over that Macs are cheaper to deploy over the long term over PCs. They have a higher acquisition cost initially but cost less to maintain and replace over time compared to PCs.


The other reason they’re cheaper is that you can get quality software to do your job cheaper. There are heaps of apps I run from the App Store (as a network administrator) purchased for tens of dollars that either have no pc equivalent, or the oc equivalent is hundreds or thousands of dollars.
 
I think you're selling Apple short on what they accomplished with Apple Silicon Mac boot security.

They managed to square the circle: although the computer supports and defaults to full boot security (all boot software components cryptographically signed and verified to come from Apple without tampering), the computer's owner can use recoveryOS to set up an unsigned OS. Unsigned OS containers exist side-by-side with fully secured containers, and cannot compromise them. To cap it all off, the way Apple implemented this permits others to implement their own fully secure boot chain on top of Apple's. This is because Apple never actually disables signature checking, but they do permit recoveryOS to enroll locally-generated signatures into the Secure Enclave for bootloaders the user says they're willing to trust. This means they can detect any subsequent alteration of that bootloader, even though it's not signed by Apple, and refuse to boot it until the user has redone the local signing process (meaning, boot into recoveryOS and go through the procedure for setting the most relaxed boot security mode on that OS container).

This is how Asahi Linux boots. They don't currently implement a secure boot chain (signature checking stops at the first stage Asahi bootloader), but plan to do it someday after implementing higher priority features. (This may have changed after Hector stepped down, don't know if the project's current leadership and members are as interested in secure boot as he was.)

The only downside to this system is that it's much less convenient to alter Mac boot settings than it used to be, as you can only manipulate Secure Enclave signatures and OS container security settings from inside recoveryOS. It's the price of Apple making it impossible for successful malware attacks against one OS container to compromise the security of other containers.
Yeah was aware but for the purposes of discussion across all of apples products including iPad and iPhone etc…. They’re more locked down than PCs.

Main point being it isn’t just Apple locking stuff to be anticompetitive.

It’s a legit security concern. But you’re right you can run unsigned code by disabling much of the security mechanism on Apple silicon Macs. Have done so to run third party drivers for my dock before they got fixed.
 
Respectfully, your question doesn’t make sense.

My proposal is that Apple provides security updates for their PC hardware for a minimum of 10 years from the first date of sale. Example: 2015 MacBook Pro would be supported until 2025, 2019 iMac would be supported until 2029, etc.

It’s irrelevant where the consumer purchases the device.

No, you just clearly don't understand what I said. If you buy a new, unopened 2010 Mac Mini on eBay (keeping in mind Apple does not sell machines on eBay) tomorrow from a random seller, does Apple owe you support until 2035?

Yes or no? It's really very simple.
 
So… what is your complaint? If they stop doing software updates your iMac in 2 years it will be 8 years old at that point and will still work, you just won’t get the latest OS. Should be totally usable until 2030 or later.
My complaint, which I’ve made clear in this thread, is that I will not be able to use my iMac safely as it was intended to be used 2 years from now. It will no longer get security updates.
 
No, you just clearly don't understand what I said. If you buy a new, unopened 2010 Mac Mini on eBay (keeping in mind Apple does not sell machines on eBay) tomorrow from a random seller, does Apple owe you support until 2035?

Yes or no? It's really very simple.
Is 2010 more than 10 years ago?

There’s the answer to your (rather silly) question.

I’ve been as clear as I could possibly be already. I won’t go over it again.
 
Is 2010 more than 10 years ago?

There’s the answer to your (rather silly) question.

I’ve been as clear as I could possibly be already. I won’t go over it again.

So a rando sells you a 2016 iMac on eBay (for a discount, no less) and Apple owes you 10 years of care from the sale? Am I getting this right?

I hope you're buying two cakes, in order to eat one and have the other.
 
My complaint, which I’ve made clear in this thread, is that I will not be able to use my iMac safely as it was intended to be used 2 years from now. It will no longer get security updates.

And for that reason you got a discount on an old iMac from a rando on eBay.

"MacForums, why aren't you as mad as I am that the PlayStation 3 I bought on eBay last week isn't getting new software???!!!111"

And finally, you can safely use that machine with Firefox and a semi-competent firewall.
 
Dude, sometimes it is just time to upgrade if you can afford $300 to $500 every 13 years.
Fair. I do have a 2024 MacBook Pro and a 2020 12.9" iPP. I use the iPad mini, mainly, to watch movies on Netflix while doing cardio. I don't care if it breaks or gets lost etc. With 16 GB of storage, not much else can be done. However, it still works for lots of things and is not a brick; which was my point.
 
And for that reason you got a discount on an old iMac from a rando on eBay.

"MacForums, why aren't you as mad as I am that the PlayStation 3 I bought on eBay last week isn't getting new software???!!!111"

And finally, you can safely use that machine with Firefox and a semi-competent firewall.
I have a Play Station (original) at home. It still works and is not bricked. Albeit, I need to play older games. But they are still fun.
 
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So a rando sells you a 2016 iMac on eBay (for a discount, no less) and Apple owes you 10 years of care from the sale? Am I getting this right?

I hope you're buying two cakes, in order to eat one and have the other.
A 2016 iMac would be supported until 2026 (10 years!).

It doesn’t matter where you buy the machine. You could find it in a dumpster for all I care.

Am I arguing with AI here? Or are you trolling me?
 
And for that reason you got a discount on an old iMac from a rando on eBay.

"MacForums, why aren't you as mad as I am that the PlayStation 3 I bought on eBay last week isn't getting new software???!!!111"

And finally, you can safely use that machine with Firefox and a semi-competent firewall.
Absolutely terrible analogy, but if you want to go down that road, Sony is still supporting the PS4, which was released in 2013. That’s 12 years of support.
 
My complaint, which I’ve made clear in this thread, is that I will not be able to use my iMac safely as it was intended to be used 2 years from now. It will no longer get security updates.

I mean… it probably feels short because you bought a 3 year old machine. But frankly 7-8 years of OS support is pretty darn reasonable
For someone that wasted 3 of their 7 years of support, you’re making a pretty big deal about apple not supporting it for 3 more years
 
A 2016 iMac would be supported until 2026 (10 years!).

It doesn’t matter where you buy the machine. You could find it in a dumpster for all I care.

Am I arguing with AI here? Or are you trolling me?

Just because you don't understand, it doesn't mean the person you're talking to is "AI."
 
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I mean… it probably feels short because you bought a 3 year old machine. But frankly 7-8 years of OS support is pretty darn reasonable
For someone that wasted 3 of their 7 years of support, you’re making a pretty big deal about apple not supporting it for 3 more years
Apple was still selling this machine in their official refurbished store until early 2023. Doesn’t seem reasonable to me that support ends in 2026. Far from it.

Seems more to me like a company that doesn’t stand behind its products, nor cares about being “green”, despite all of their marketing BS about how much they care about the environment.

Microsoft will be supporting 2019 machines for years and years. No question about that. Massive advantage to going with a Windows PC.
 
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Fair. I do have a 2024 MacBook Pro and a 2020 12.9" iPP. I use the iPad mini, mainly, to watch movies on Netflix while doing cardio. I don't care if it breaks or gets lost etc. With 16 GB of storage, not much else can be done. However, it still works for lots of things and is not a brick; which was my point.
I’d keep it connected to my guest WiFi just in case.
 
By the definition of monopolies as I was taught while studying economics. It is not a monolith concept and varies from country to country, economist to economist and linguist to linguist. Here in the UK, Apple controls enough of its markets to warrant attention from the Competition and Markets Authority and has been under investigation for some time. Have fun applying the one definition you are familiar with to the entire world.

In the UK Apple is a monopoly, in the US it is not. See what I said about definitions? A pointless endeavour. All you achieved in your reply was nitpicking for sake of nitpicking. Beyond that, you said nothing of substance. Congrats, I suppose.
The UK is extreme in setting a 25% market dominance as defining a monopoly. But even with that low bar, your primary statement "In the UK Apple is a monopoly" has not been proven so is untrue.

Certainly portions of Apple's operation will likely get modified (e.g. app store) due to anti-competitive features. However claiming that "In the UK Apple is a monopoly" has not been proven true and probably will never be proven true even though portions of Apple's operation will probably be proven to have anti-competitive monopoly (per UK definition) features.
 
If you look at the list I had, dell, hp, and System 76 (for linux systems) all have 5 years and under for their hardware being EOL'd
There are two different issues going on here. EOL for those suppliers means they will not support those systems any more, not that Windows or Linux will no longer install on them. For Apple computers, EOL means, among other things, that you will be actively prevented from installing newer iterations of macOS on them.

There is hardware support: That means warranty claims and repairs. There is driver support meaning that Dell et al will no longer publish new drivers or firmwares on their websites. The thing is, a lot of commodity PC hardware never sees the latter even on the manufacturer's websites. You don't need constant new drivers or bios updates for every iteration of Windows. Furthermore, Dell and the rest are often more or less just assemblers of commodity hardware. If you need a driver that Dell is no longer supplying, another from another manufacturer using the same part or similar might just work anyway or Microsoft will have added at the least basic support within the Windows codebase. It's less stressful for the owner than the annual dropping of support that Apple publishes when the newest major version of macOS drops.
 
customers should know what they are buying when they buy it
Yep. As much as I dislike Google, they publish a very simple chart that specifies how long they will support their Pixel phones (7 years for the latest Pixels). Apple has only committed to 5 years due to the EU regulations.

another 2 years with security updates
Two years of whatever security updates they get around to. There have been plenty of examples where the older macOS versions only get patched many months after the current macOS version gets patched.

Have they actually stated this officially somewhere, or is this just a summary of past practices?
Nope. They actually say the opposite, that they specifically do not guarantee to fix all known issues in older OS versions.
 
It was not a refurb. It was purchased brand new and unopened
You bought a brand new iMac. Wha model was it? The M2?

I'm confused as to why you think that a brand new iMac purchased in 2022 is going to lose support in 2025, or am I missing some thing?
 
Been reading this thread for a while

No idea why OP is complaining, especially trying to compare with Microsoft

OK then, 7 to 10 years of support on macOS

Windows 8, only 4 years of support (excluding 3 years paid extended support)
Windows 8.1, 5 years of support (excluding 3 years paid extended support)
And Windows 10, 10 years of support (ending in October this year, excluding 1 year paid extended support)

Yeah ok then
 
Well kind of, but I think it’s interesting to see what people think about this kind of stuff. That’s pretty impressive that it has 20 parts guaranteed but I suspect labor is going to be triple what the part cost. Speed queen?



And Windows 10 is also no longer supported and in the same category with Windows 7.
Windows 10 is supported till October. Why lie?
 
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The third-largest company on planet earth will go out of business if they offer security updates for an extra 2 years.

Nobody could possibly believe such a thing.

You missed the point entirely. you say 2 years. that's a completely arbitrary number you pulled out of nowhere as something you just want. wanting is great. but the point was Apple is a business and as such its goal is to make money to not just survive but grow.

You toss around terms like 'fraud' and 'bricked' showing you don't seem to understand what a business is.

Sure I would like more for less, but that just doesnt work in the long run. You keep championing windows as the best example which is ludicrous given the security issues they have.

It's okay to want. It's pointless to not understand all the ramifications of what you want.
 
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