Parallels tech preview for M1

[TrueBlou]

I have been testing out the Tech Preview with the latest build from Microsoft that claims to support both 32-bit and 64-bit. It works with some 64-bit apps but not every app works out of the box yet. For ***** and giggles I tried to install Assasins Creed via Steam and as I anticipated that didn't launch.

Overall I'm really happy to see the progress Microsoft is making here. If anything, Apple is pushing Microsoft to up their game with respect to compatibility in the SoC space. Microsoft has a harder time I would think because their overall ecosystem isn't as closed and/or controlled as Apple's is.

Aye it’s very hit and miss, but that’s to be expected considering the current state of both Parallels and Win 10 ARM x86/64 emulation.

I’ve been having some decent success with older games. For instance, Borderlands 2, Metro 2033 Redux, Bioshock 2 Remastered, all run buttery smooth with either maxed out or damn close to it settings.

Yeah, they’re old games. But running on a low power ARM system, with a buggy beta Parallels, virtualising an early beta Win10ARM which is in turn then emulating x64, I was still surprised how well it’s doing.

I did try Metro Exodus quickly earlier (though I very much doubt it’ll run, but still), got as far as the main menu and was able to navigate around and change settings. But as expected, no in-game.... yet.

 

[the8thark]

Apps must be compiled in ARM to run natively on Windows ARM. But Microsoft recent’y pushed an update to support both 32 and 64 bits apps through emulation. This works within a VM

So I would be emulating x86 or x64 apps on windows via the parallels virtualised ARM windows?
ie emulation within virtualisation.
Just to get it crystal clear in my head.

 

[pldelisle]

So I would be emulating x86 or x64 apps on windows via the parallels virtualised ARM windows?
ie emulation within virtualisation.
Just to get it crystal clear in my head.

Yes, something like that. But it’s on Microsoft’s side, inside the VM, not on Parallels side.

 

[TrueBlou]

So I would be emulating x86 or x64 apps on windows via the parallels virtualised ARM windows?
ie emulation within virtualisation.
Just to get it crystal clear in my head.

Exactly that. Parallels virtualises the ARM Windows 10, which then in turn emulates x86 and x64 code. It’s actually not too bad at the moment all things considered. There’s a long way to go and app compatibility is hit or miss. But it’s still early days.

 

[Fomalhaut]

I run a nationalCloud Service provider we just upgrade to all flash as our hybrid customers demand that we have similar performance in storage to the “hyperscalers”. When we checked all G,a and M claim all flash. We have hundreds in production across our sites and we like the big guys only use spinning now for long term and cold storage.

The default storage for Amazon EC2 instances is GP2, which is SSD storage:

Amazon EBS volume types - Amazon EBS

Use General Purpose SSD, Provisioned IOPS SSD, Throughput Optimized HDD, Cold HDD, or Magnetic volumes to tailor your storage performance and costs to the needs of your applications.

docs.aws.amazon.com

I'm pretty sure that AWS S3 uses a lot of HDD tech for the archival storage classes that don't need fast access.

 

[Ivangf2]

Does someone try to run:

1. tech demo on SSD external
2. Age of empires 3

 

[tdar]

I have been testing out the Tech Preview with the latest build from Microsoft that claims to support both 32-bit and 64-bit. It works with some 64-bit apps but not every app works out of the box yet. For ***** and giggles I tried to install Assasins Creed via Steam and as I anticipated that didn't launch.

Overall I'm really happy to see the progress Microsoft is making here. If anything, Apple is pushing Microsoft to up their game with respect to compatibility in the SoC space. Microsoft has a harder time I would think because their overall ecosystem isn't as closed and/or controlled as Apple's is.

They have a hard time because they have a ecosystem that has existed for over 30 years. And unlike apple they have made their bed in the camp of backwards compatibility.

 

[TrueBlou]

They have a hard time because they have a ecosystem that has existed for over 30 years. And unlike apple they have made their bed in the camp of backwards compatibility.

So true. Apple has never been afraid to declare, evolve or be left behind. It can be frustrating for some end users I’d imagine. And of course it means we (developers) have to adapt our code to survive the changes.

Despite this though, I actually like that Apple aren’t afraid to make sweeping changes, it’s generally for the greater good.

 

[tdar]

It’s just a matter of time. Microsoft is anything but proactive. They are supposedly working on their own custom silicon too just like Apple which will likely be on ARM too (because x86 is going nowhere). They will license Windows ARM, it’s just a matter of time.

I like to think so. I think that they are being proactive. But! The silicon they are working on is for servers in the cloud. Qualcomm makes their surface arm CPU with some input from Microsoft designers.

Windows licensing is complicated. There really are some people, whos entire job it is, to explain windows licensing! My reading is the story that says that Windows for arm is only licensed to oems is not correct. But it’s not available to retail customers. That’s what we would like to see change.

 

[TrueBlou]

I like to think so. I think that they are being proactive. But! The silicon they are working on is for servers in the cloud. Qualcomm makes their surface arm CPU with some input from Microsoft designers.

Windows licensing is complicated. There really are some people, whos entire job it is, to explain windows licensing! My reading is the story that says that Windows for arm is only licensed to oems is not correct. But it’s not available to retail customers. That’s what we would like to see change.

I have some degree of hope that they will eventually license ARM to end users. I dare say the market, certainly to begin with, will be small. But I fully expect it to evolve into a larger base.

Even initially, though the potential market may only generate revenue in the tens of millions, a small figure for Microsoft. I think it will prove to be enough to serve as a starting point.

I’ve activated my developer preview of Win10ARM with a Windows 10 Pro licence key - I usually have spares. Considering that it’s obviously capable and working for activation right now, it should be a simple process if they decide to sell it independently of hardware.

 

[Quackers]

As somebody suggested earlier in this thread I suspect what's likely to happen is that MS will licence a Windows 10 ARM virtual machine so that a very limited array of hardware need be catered for, rather than an actual full release of an ARM system.

 

[pldelisle]

Well, good point is that while we are all waiting for Microsoft to get proper licensing, Parallels has plenty of time to stabilize its hypervisor and make it a lot more performing and bug free

 

[haralds]

I have some degree of hope that they will eventually license ARM to end users. I dare say the market, certainly to begin with, will be small. But I fully expect it to evolve into a larger base.

Even initially, though the potential market may only generate revenue in the tens of millions, a small figure for Microsoft. I think it will prove to be enough to serve as a starting point.

I’ve activated my developer preview of Win10ARM with a Windows 10 Pro licence key - I usually have spares. Considering that it’s obviously capable and working for activation right now, it should be a simple process if they decide to sell it independently of hardware.

The most likely scenario is that they make Parallels an "OEM." If I remember correctly that was the approach taken with VirtualPC in the PowerPC days.

 

[gank41]

The most likely scenario is that they make Parallels an "OEM." If I remember correctly that was the approach taken with VirtualPC in the PowerPC days.

Yeah, Windows licensing is weird. I think an OEM license is just the one license for that “machine” or however they word it. But if you buy a license from Microsoft you can use it once on a physical machine and then up to two times virtually? I mean, it just seems like they can decide to do whatever and then it’s done, you know? I’m still thinking Microsoft will work with Parallels to offer to buy a license and start downloading it from within Parallels, just like they do now for x86/x64 versions of Windows 10.

 

[tdar]

I have some degree of hope that they will eventually license ARM to end users. I dare say the market, certainly to begin with, will be small. But I fully expect it to evolve into a larger base.

Even initially, though the potential market may only generate revenue in the tens of millions, a small figure for Microsoft. I think it will prove to be enough to serve as a starting point.

I’ve activated my developer preview of Win10ARM with a Windows 10 Pro licence key - I usually have spares. Considering that it’s obviously capable and working for activation right now, it should be a simple process if they decide to sell it independently of hardware.

As to market size, the market that I suspect would be the biggest may well be already licensed if I read the complicated license info correctly. Microsoft considers it their most important market. Enterprise.

 

[bill-p]

I have some degree of hope that they will eventually license ARM to end users.

I think it's almost a certainty that at least Parallels will be able to offer Windows 10 ARM in some shape or form.

Otherwise, it seems like they specifically developed a version of their Parallel Tools (which includes drivers and utilities) for... nothing at all. That seems very odd to me.

Given how well Windows 10 on ARM is running in Parallels, I think it's a hint that Parallels is actively working with Microsoft to bring Windows 10 to M1 Mac.

 

[ractdi]

Has anyone experience a problem with the windows 10 preview reporting no connection? Flicking back to the Mac OS the internet works fine but parallels/win10 doesn’t connect. Since installing 2 weeks ago it’s been working fine, can’t think of anything I’ve done that might have caused this problem.

 

[UCDHIUS]

Has anyone experience a problem with the windows 10 preview reporting no connection? Flicking back to the Mac OS the internet works fine but parallels/win10 doesn’t connect. Since installing 2 weeks ago it’s been working fine, can’t think of anything I’ve done that might have caused this problem.

if its just a IP problem, just right click, “troubleshoot" and ill automatically fix.

I have to do it everytime I boot the VM it started with the second update to the tech preview.

 

[pvanberlo]

I don't really care about Windows ARM, the bigger question is, will we get a way to also run x86 machines. I work for a large company, and Windows is still the primary OS. Some lucky folks have a Mac, like me, but I still need the ability within our enterprise environment to also run the same Windows images and software that's being used on most of the other systems, which means I'm stuck with running x86 virtual machines (in VMware Fusion now on an i9 MacBook Pro with 32GB of ram). I know, of course, people will say:

* Apple will keep selling Intel systems for a while longer; I'm sure however this will stop at some point
* Run your systems in the cloud or via an on-premise virtualization environment; which is a valid option, but cloud is already out due to security restrictions and on-premise virtualization like ESX requires a constant connection with the enterprise network, which is also far from ideal
* Go get a Windows laptop; I'm considering this now, but really prefer using a MacBook Pro and I'm up for getting a new system, so hopefully more info on possible support of virtualized & emulated x86 machines will pop up soon

I have the feeling that Apple is forgetting their enterprise users here, and both VMware and Parallels are not really forthcoming when it comes to info on the ability to virtualize and emulate x86 systems. Yes, performance might suck, but hey, the new M1 socs are super powerful and outperform Intel chips, right...?

 

[kave]

Any input if Kali Linux will work with Parallels? They have a selection of arm install images:

Get Kali | Kali Linux

Home of Kali Linux, an Advanced Penetration Testing Linux distribution used for Penetration Testing, Ethical Hacking and network security assessments.

www.offensive-security.com

 

[pldelisle]

Any input if Kali Linux will work with Parallels? They have a selection of arm install images:

Get Kali | Kali Linux

Home of Kali Linux, an Advanced Penetration Testing Linux distribution used for Penetration Testing, Ethical Hacking and network security assessments.

www.offensive-security.com

It will, since it’s ARM.

I’ surprised to see people still using Kali ...

 

[09872738]

I’ surprised to see people still using Kali ...

May I ask why?

 

[pldelisle]

I used it when I was in college, attending security and pentest conferences. I‘m surprised in a good way that this OS still survive and is still one of the best among pentesting.

 

[09872738]

I used it when I was in college, attending security and pentest conferences. I‘m surprised in a good way that this OS still survive and is still one of the best among pentesting.

Yeah, its maintained by Offensive Security. So its in good hands, I only regret the name change; I found Backtrack better for some reason

 

[jdb8167]

I don't really care about Windows ARM, the bigger question is, will we get a way to also run x86 machines. I work for a large company, and Windows is still the primary OS. Some lucky folks have a Mac, like me, but I still need the ability within our enterprise environment to also run the same Windows images and software that's being used on most of the other systems, which means I'm stuck with running x86 virtual machines (in VMware Fusion now on an i9 MacBook Pro with 32GB of ram). I know, of course, people will say:

* Apple will keep selling Intel systems for a while longer; I'm sure however this will stop at some point
* Run your systems in the cloud or via an on-premise virtualization environment; which is a valid option, but cloud is already out due to security restrictions and on-premise virtualization like ESX requires a constant connection with the enterprise network, which is also far from ideal
* Go get a Windows laptop; I'm considering this now, but really prefer using a MacBook Pro and I'm up for getting a new system, so hopefully more info on possible support of virtualized & emulated x86 machines will pop up soon

I have the feeling that Apple is forgetting their enterprise users here, and both VMware and Parallels are not really forthcoming when it comes to info on the ability to virtualize and emulate x86 systems. Yes, performance might suck, but hey, the new M1 socs are super powerful and outperform Intel chips, right...?

Would you really be willing to boot into an OS that is 5-10 times slower than your current notebook? Because that is the reality of an emulated OS. The advantage of using a VM to run Windows on Arm is that the OS is native while still allowing translated Win32 and x64 Windows apps to run at reasonable speeds.

There was a company many years ago called Transmeta that did whole OS translation in hardware and software at runtime that performed relatively poorly in general but still much faster than just doing emulation via an interpreter. Maybe some company can revive that technology. It was long enough ago that the patents have probably run out.