MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[tsialex]

What is basic about it, is it less of a spec?
Would I get better performance/compatibility with the PX1.

PX1 without the LEDs, some people hate them, everything else is identical. Same PCB, same connector, same heatsink, same screws.

AquaComputer kryoM2 EVO is half the price of the Wolftech pulsecard, it's a better choice nowadays.

 

[bsbeamer]

Yep it does look similar.
But I don’t know the ins and outs of the different specs on these cards, like some of the dudes here.
I looked on the first page and it’s not listed as to use or not.

Quote from this page:
https://www.flexxmemory.co.uk/acces...lsecard-pcie-3-0-x4-adapter-for-pcie-m-2-ssds

"NOTE: Classic Mac Pro supports only AHCI PCIe SSDs for booting. However, Mac Pro 5.1 can be made NVMe bootable with the firmware updates and OSX 10.13 and 10.14"

Even the included item package materials look the same as PX1. If anyone stumbles across someone who will ship outside of UK, please post the link. PX1 is out of stock nearly everywhere and looks like it would be a great alternative option for many.

 

[tsialex]

Added Aquacomputer kryoM.2 original version and Wolfstech pulsecard to the first post. Aquacomputer has a kryoM.2 without any heatsink, but it's a disaster waiting to happen with a Mac Pro 5,1, so I left it out.

 

[Boomcha]

Hi everyone, grabbed a new to me Mac Pro 5,1 2x2.93 machine a couple weeks ago, upgraded to 128GB RAM and video card to Radeon RX580 8GB. Next step is to go Nvme via a Pcie card.

What is the verdict on Western Digital Black vs Samsung's in terms of compability. Want to grab a 1TB at least.

I have ran WD Black spinner drives for years and love them and also run a Samsung Pro SSD and no complaints there but just wanted to get your opinions for this specific build.

I'm thinking of grabbing a Aquacomputer KryoM.2 Evo card for now so I can get around 1500 speeds out of the drive for working/opening large high end Photoshop 16 bit files (around 7-8GB each and do some 3D rendering. Of course more is always better so if a Highpoint SSD7101a were to fall into possession down the road it would great but who knows.

Running latest High Sierra currently but have bootrom for latest non-beta Mojave installed.

 

[flowrider]

Has anyone tried a Wolftech Pulsecard pcie adapter?

Yep, looks to be the same

https://www.megamac.com/products/wolftech-pulsecard

Wolftech says the card is Produced by Angelbird for Wolftech

Seems to UK only

Lou

 

[tsialex]

Hi everyone, grabbed a new to me Mac Pro 5,1 2x2.93 machine a couple weeks ago, upgraded to 128GB RAM and video card to Radeon RX580 8GB. Next step is to go Nvme via a Pcie card.

What is the verdict on Western Digital Black vs Samsung's in terms of compability. Want to grab a 1TB at least.

I have ran WD Black spinner drives for years and love them and also run a Samsung Pro SSD and no complaints there but just wanted to get your opinions for this specific build.

I'm thinking of grabbing a Aquacomputer KryoM.2 Evo card for now so I can get around 1500 speeds out of the drive for working/opening large high end Photoshop 16 bit files (around 7-8GB each and do some 3D rendering. Of course more is always better so if a Highpoint SSD7101a were to fall into possession it would great but unlikely to happen, lol.

Some WD Black models are PCIe 3.0 2x and the throughput is limited to 750MB/s with a MP5,1 or MP6,1. Current models are PCIe 3.0 4x, but since the names are the same…

Buy a Samsung 970 EVO or PRO, don't buy a 970 EVO Plus.

 

[fatespawn]

I thought I'd include some pictures of my Kryo M.2 installation. I thought I was going to have to sacrifice one of my PCIe slots, but it turned out that the Kryo M.2 NVMe mounting screw is JUST the right length to serve as a standoff against the RX580. It's tight - no doubt. But it's not "bending" and I feel it has left enough breathing room for the RX580 fan due to the shape of the Kryo card. I can use all 4 PCIe slots in this configuration. DriveDx reports the worst temp the SSD reached was 60c - I assume during the clone restore. That was the longest continual write I've done yet.

 

[bsbeamer]

Did you remove the two screws near PCIe on RX580? Solved a lot of the tight fit or bend issues for my personal machine and two client 4,1>5,1s with Sapphire Pulse RX580.

Any screws or resisters on the back end of Kryo between the visible on near side of photos and PCIe side?

 

[Boomcha]

Some WD Black models are PCIe 3.0 2x and the throughput is limited to 750MB/s with a MP5,1 or MP6,1. Current models are PCIe 3.0 4x, but since the names are the same…

Buy a Samsung 970 EVO or PRO, don't buy a 970 EVO Plus.

Thank you, I have pulled the trigger on the 970 Evo and the Aquacomputer card.

 

[fatespawn]

Did you remove the two screws near PCIe on RX580? Solved a lot of the tight fit or bend issues for my personal machine and two client 4,1>5,1s with Sapphire Pulse RX580.

Any screws or resisters on the back end of Kryo between the visible on near side of photos and PCIe side?

I saw your mod regarding the 580... I didn't remove the screws though. I thought I'd try the fit "as-is" first. Seems to work fine. There are no protruding items on the back of the card itself. Newegg has some pretty detailed stock photos:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...m.2&cm_re=kryo_m.2-_-9SIA9F94T42618-_-Product

 

[zedex]

This is a suggestion/request for @MisterAndrew regarding 4Kn NVMe drive compatibility..

In your first post you kindly note that "macOS Sierra supports 4KB / sector drives like Apple OEM and some uncommon Intel and Toshiba blades."

As a user that prefers SIERRA and HFS+ I would REALLY appreciate a list of known NVMe ssd blades that will work under macOS (10.12.6)

Consistent with the format of your list in the OP I suggest an extra field to confirm suitability for SIERRA..
[FOR EXAMPLE]

Toshiba SSDs:

XG5: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,000 MB/s read, up to 2,100 MB/s write (1TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status:
4Kn for SIERRA Compatibility?: [YES / NO / REFORMATTING REQUIRED]

I chose the XG5 in this example because I think it may be suitable according to the data sheet - subject first to some special reformatting instructions.

 

[bsbeamer]

@zedex The first post in this thread is a wiki and can be edited or added too. If this is something you want to implement and research, add the information to the existing list. It's such a special-use case that I think you'll have a hard time gathering verified information from a larger pool of users. Most have moved past Sierra to High Sierra. Even the numbers of High Sierra holdouts are dwindling as they move to Mojave.

 

[tsialex]

This is a suggestion/request for @MisterAndrew regarding 4Kn NVMe drive compatibility..

In your first post you kindly note that "macOS Sierra supports 4KB / sector drives like Apple OEM and some uncommon Intel and Toshiba blades."

As a user that prefers SIERRA and HFS+ I would REALLY appreciate a list of known NVMe ssd blades that will work under macOS (10.12.6)

Consistent with the format of your list in the OP I suggest an extra field to confirm suitability for SIERRA..
[FOR EXAMPLE]

Toshiba SSDs:

XG5: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Available in 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: up to 3,000 MB/s read, up to 2,100 MB/s write (1TB)
Datasheet
Compatibility status:
4Kn for SIERRA Compatibility?: [YES / NO / REFORMATTING REQUIRED]

I chose the XG5 in this example because I think it may be suitable according to the data sheet - subject first to some special reformatting instructions.

I wrote the NVMe support note of the first post and will be very difficult to check what drives are 4KB / sector, usually only datacenter blades have this info on the data sheet, not one data sheet for the blades of the first post have this info.

Btw, just some blades are capable of changing the sector size. Intel has a tool that work and some of the Intel blades can be used with 512 bytes or 4 KB / sector. Samsung consumer models are all 512 bytes / sector and cannot be changed to 4KB / sector.

Another thing, Security Updates support for Sierra will end sometime after WWDC this year. If Apple do the same as they did with El Capitan, Sierra will have just one more Security Update around July/August timeframe.

 

[zedex]

Thanks for the reply Alex - I might buy an XG5 and test it out / try and get it working..

 

[tsialex]

Thanks for the reply Alex - I might buy an XG5 and test it out / try and get it working..

If I remember correctly, besides Apple OEM drives, only some Intel Optane models, SK Hynix PC300, Toshiba XG3 / OCZ RD400 can be used with 4 KB / sector.

Don't buy before checking this with Toshiba support.
[doublepost=1552402581][/doublepost]If you install smartmontools with brew, you can see the sector size for AHCI blades with smartctl -i /dev/driveXX, but not for NVMe drives (it's a macOS limitation):

SM951-AHCI 512GB:

smartctl 7.0 2018-12-30 r4883 [Darwin 17.7.0 x86_64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-18, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Samsung based SSDs
Device Model:     SAMSUNG MZHPV512HDGL-000H1
Serial Number:    S1X0NY0HBxxxxx
LU WWN Device Id: 5 002538 90006a302
Firmware Version: BXW24H0Q
User Capacity:    512,110,190,592 bytes [512 GB]
Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate:    Solid State Device
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4c
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Tue Mar 12 11:47:39 2019 -03
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

970 Pro 512GB:

smartctl 7.0 2018-12-30 r4883 [Darwin 17.7.0 x86_64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-18, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Number:                       Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB
Serial Number:                      S463NF0Kxxxxxxx
Firmware Version:                   1B2QEXP7
PCI Vendor/Subsystem ID:            0x144d
IEEE OUI Identifier:                0x002538
Total NVM Capacity:                 512,110,190,592 [512 GB]
Unallocated NVM Capacity:           0
Controller ID:                      4
Number of Namespaces:               1
Local Time is:                      Tue Mar 12 11:53:04 2019 -03
Firmware Updates (0x16):            3 Slots, no Reset required
Optional Admin Commands (0x0037):   Security Format Frmw_DL Self_Test Directvs
Optional NVM Commands (0x005f):     Comp Wr_Unc DS_Mngmt Wr_Zero Sav/Sel_Feat Timestmp
Maximum Data Transfer Size:         512 Pages
Warning  Comp. Temp. Threshold:     81 Celsius
Critical Comp. Temp. Threshold:     81 Celsius

Supported Power States
St Op     Max   Active     Idle   RL RT WL WT  Ent_Lat  Ex_Lat
 0 +     6.20W       -        -    0  0  0  0        0       0
 1 +     4.30W       -        -    1  1  1  1        0       0
 2 +     2.10W       -        -    2  2  2  2        0       0
 3 -   0.0400W       -        -    3  3  3  3      210    1200
 4 -   0.0050W       -        -    4  4  4  4     2000    8000

=== START OF SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)
Critical Warning:                   0x00
Temperature:                        47 Celsius
Available Spare:                    100%
Available Spare Threshold:          10%
Percentage Used:                    0%
Data Units Read:                    17,090,171 [8.75 TB]
Data Units Written:                 17,316,803 [8.86 TB]
Host Read Commands:                 154,888,287
Host Write Commands:                201,196,120
Controller Busy Time:               923
Power Cycles:                       868
Power On Hours:                     3,130
Unsafe Shutdowns:                   198
Media and Data Integrity Errors:    0
Error Information Log Entries:      8
Warning  Comp. Temperature Time:    0
Critical Comp. Temperature Time:    0
Temperature Sensor 1:               47 Celsius
Temperature Sensor 2:               65 Celsius

Read Error Information Log failed: NVMe admin command:0x02/page:0x01 is not supported

 

[edbr]

I have contacted Samsung (represented by Hanaro in Europe) about 970 Evo Plus compatibility with Mac, showed some logs and links about the problems reported in forums.

They replied:

Based on requests received and online information, there seem to be incompatibility issues between the 970 EVO Plus and MAC.
This compatibility has not been officially confirmed by Samsung.
However, we have contacted Samsung for more information.
Samsung is currently analyzing the issues.
Hopefully we will receive a response regarding the test analysis and the results soon.
Once we receive a response, it will be shared.


For the time being, if it is still possible to contact your reseller, we recommend replacing the 970 EVO Plus with the 970 EVO or 970 PRO, as they have no known compatibility problems with MAC.


We do hope that we have adequately informed you and sincerely apologize for any inconveniences that this might have caused.

I'll post updates when I get any.

 

[The Spirit]

Yep @MIKX I've quoted that before in #656 because the last part sums up my thoughts exactly

Btw I'm getting PMs like this

I do have longer uptimes, it doesn't crash as boot drive, even sleep/wake works. BUT I'm not satisfied with the write performance, it drops significantly after a short time. As I've said, too many issue reports, not yet recommended. I'm still within the return window at that big river warehouse and edit2 can send it back till end of march, probably for a Pro.

Edit, I like the kryoM.2 though, cooling works well. Thats a keeper.

View attachment 825814

which tool are you using to show drive temps?

 

[bsbeamer]

which tool are you using to show drive temps?

This one is popular:
https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/

 

[Fangio]

which tool are you using to show drive temps?

Thats iStat Menus 6.31

 

[zedex]

I'm not sure how 'marketplace' works yet (or if I have access to it) but for anyone that wants a Angelbird WINGS PX1 in new condition I have just listed mine on eBay here ( http://ebay.us/I6Zy4J?cmpnId=5338273189 )

Note - the asking price for the PX1 includes an AHCI SM951 256GB PCIe SSD - both of which are surplus to my needs now I have purchased a Highpoint SSD7101A (YAY!!)

 

[MisterAndrew]

As a user that prefers SIERRA and HFS+ I would REALLY appreciate a list of known NVMe ssd blades that will work under macOS (10.12.6)

I personally would only recommend one of the proprietary Apple blades since I haven't done any extensive testing with 3rd party blades. But that's why I created this thread so everyone can share their experiences with different blades. You may want to give the Apple SSPOLARIS blade a try. It should have the best compatibility for an NVMe drive. The AHCI SSUBX blade is just as fast though (without using one of the PLX switch adapter cards) and works very well.
[doublepost=1552517631][/doublepost]I just noticed there's a new Apple SSPHOTON NVMe blade based on the Samsung PM971 with Photon controller. It features 48-layer MLC and LPDDR4 DRAM. So far I've only seen it in 32GB capacity as part of a 2017 iMac fusion drive (model MZ-KNZ0320/0A6). I don't know what the speeds are, but should be at least 1,500 MB read. I added it to the list.

 

[HunPro]

Nope. It's just hard to reproduce. Most of the time it wakes up from a long period of sleep, other times it has this problem.

Can't reproduce it with short sleep/wake cycles.

I guess this SSD is not 100% compatible. OWC Aura Pro X users experienced similar issues and found no solution, theirs wasn't compatible as well.

The adapter card is noname and black, with the two leds (blue and red) but I doubt that's the problem.

Sound like voodoo with and SSD problem, but hey. They also find it incredibly hard to reproduce. Here's a few months of desperation with various Macs: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8194934?page=6

An update, for those who might run into a similar problem (reboot during sleep with an exotic nvme boot drive): disabling both hibernation and putting hard disks to sleep seems to work for now. Only time will tell.

up 2 days, 32 mins

Most of this was one long sleep session, woke up just fine.

 

[bsbeamer]

There is reported compatibility with Sabrent Rocket if anyone is searching for in-stock brands other than Samsung right now. All variations appear to use PS5012-E12 controller. Unsure if this compatibility is STORAGE ONLY or is 100% BOOTABLE.

https://www.sabrent.com/rocket-nvme/
https://www.sabrent.com/product-category/internal-solid-state-drives/

 

[krishnaM]

I have been using the SM951 AHCI with Addonicks adaptor (without heat sink) for last 3 years without problems and want to replace it with 970pro (with Aquacomputer Kyro adaptor) before it fails. Read/write speeds will probably be same. Will there be any difference/benefit/disadvantages?

 

[tsialex]

I have been using the SM951 AHCI with Addonicks adaptor (without heat sink) for last 3 years without problems and want to replace it with 970pro (with Aquacomputer Kyro adaptor) before it fails. Read/write speeds will probably be same. Will there be any difference/benefit/disadvantages?

970 Pro will be faster, more IOPs, lower latency.

NVMe blades with 140.0.0.0.0 BootROM, works the same way as an AHCI one.