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zhpenn

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
Works fine. It supports a single NVMe or AHCI PCIe device using M.2 connector.


Works fine. It's a single NVMe device using U.2 connector.


Works fine. It supports a single NVMe or AHCI PCIe device using M.2 connector.


Works fine. It supports a single NVMe or AHCI PCIe device using M.2 connector.


They have a link to this but they didn't test it. Only one of the M.2 slots can work because it requires bifurcation.


Already mentioned. Works fine. It supports a single NVMe or AHCI PCIe device using M.2 connector.


Cheap cards supporting only one device are cheap because they only wire the PCIe from the PCIe slot to the PCIe of the M.2 or U.2 slot.


The Asus is also cheap because it only wires the PCIe from the PCIe slot to the PCIe of the M.2 slots. But that only works with PCIe slots that support bifurcation. Macs don't have slots that support bifurcation. Feel free to be the first to test this card in a MacPro7,1 with more than one NVMe drive.

Expensive cards work by including a PCIe switch. The PCIe switch is like a network switch. The upstream connection of the PCIe switch is PCIe x8 or x16 lanes to the PCIe slot. The switch has 2, 4, or 6 downstream connections to the M.2 slots (each M.2 slot is x4 lanes).

Don't confuse PCIe lanes x4, x8, or x16 with how many devices a PCIe card supports.

I think this information is all in the first post of this thread.


Woooooow! thank you soooo much, now I understand.

Is that means, if I have multiple empty pcie slot, I can use 2 or more cheap single slot cards with blades then use macos raid asistant to make them raid0? I know it will waste some slots, will it be less reliable than a card with multiple blades?
 
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,968
4,262
It's already confirmed that MP7,1 PCIe slots are behind a 96-lane PEX8796 PCIe switch, so no PCI Express Lane Partitioning support for 2019 Mac Pro, and the same requirements for PCIe M.2/U.2 adapters as MP5,1 are valid, the only difference is that 2019 Mac Pro slots are PCIe 3.0.
Not all the PCIe slots are behind the 96-lane switch. The MPX slots are direct to the CPU, aren't they? No one's posted an lspci, ioreg, IORegistryExplorer.app, or pcitree.sh dump of the slots yet to confirm? Only the slots that you can switch between Pool A and Pool B are behind the 96-lane switch.

Has anyone researched what is required to support bifurcation / Lane Partitioning? I think the Xeon processors support this, but is hardware outside the CPU required to setup the bifurcation? If no extra hardware is required then is it just a setting in the CPU or BIOS? Mac's don't have BIOS menus but can the setting be changed in EFI? Has anyone used UEFIExtract and Universal-IFR-Extractor? I don't think IFR Extractor has ever been useful on a Mac since Mac's don't have bios menus?

Is that means, if I have multiple empty pcie slot, I can use 2 or more cheap single slot cards with blades then use macos raid asistant to make them raid0? I know it will waste some slots, will it be less reliable than a card with multiple blades?
Yes. Reliability should be the same. Cards with multiple blades usually include fans and heatsinks though.
[automerge]1578301879[/automerge]
Is anyone here using Amfeltec Card and what's your opinion about this card?
I bought the Amfeltec gen 3 SQUID for four M.2 card before the six M.2 card came out. The four M.2 card is low profile because it is double sided. The fan is noisy. It has no heat sinks. I haven't used it enough to determine if heat is an issue.
 
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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
Not all the PCIe slots are behind the 96-lane switch. The MPX slots are direct to the CPU, aren't they? No one's posted an lspci, ioreg, IORegistryExplorer.app, or pcitree.sh dump of the slots yet to confirm? Only the slots that you can switch between Pool A and Pool B are behind the 96-lane switch.
Yes, the MPX slots are wired directly to the CPU and that's why I wrote the second paragraph here, I'll word that correctly later.

I have ioreg and IORegistryExplorer.app reports, I can send you by PM if you want to take a look. For SystemProfiler, Timo Perfitt from Twocanoes Software posted here.

Btw, ioreg shows that the MP7,1 SATA ports are reported as internal, even so MP7,1 SATA drives installed via Promise 2Ji are external, Apple probably did some T2 wizardry here.

Has anyone researched what is required to support bifurcation / Lane Partitioning? I think the Xeon processors support this, but is hardware outside the CPU required to setup the bifurcation? If no extra hardware is required then is it just a setting in the CPU or BIOS? Mac's don't have BIOS menus but can the setting be changed in EFI? Has anyone used UEFIExtract and Universal-IFR-Extractor? I don't think IFR Extractor has ever been useful on a Mac since Mac's don't have bios menus?

Lane Partitioning needs motherboard/chipset/firmware help, Intel has a nice video about how it's done, I'll find a link. Firmware support is needed too, since the Lane Partitioning is not dynamic and needs to be setup during POST time and will be set for the session.

From looking at older HEDT PC motherboards that support bifurcation natively, passive switches seems to be needed too, for the lane split between the main PCIe slot and the secondary/tertiary since there aren't enough lanes for everything, but I'm not certain about newer Intel chipsets like Z399 still need it.
 

zhpenn

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
Does anyone try Toshiba XG6?

Toshiba XG6: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Speeds: up to ~3,200 MB/s read, up to ~3,000 MB/s write (1TB)
Compatibility status: Unknown


While In this post

Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe



Which NVMe SSDs are known to work?
You will need to buy a M.2 adaptor for all the below SSDs :

* Adata NVMe SSD : SX6000, SX7000, SX8200, SX8200 Pro etc.
* Corsair NVMe SSD : MP500, MP510
* Crucial NVMe SSD : P1
* HP NVMe SSD : ex920, ex950
* OCZ RD400 (and all Toshiba XG3-XG4-XG5-XG5p-XG6 line)



In this post show that it's compatible with Macbook pro, is that means should work in Mac Pro 7,1?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
Does anyone try Toshiba XG6?

Toshiba XG6: TC58NCP090GSD controller: NVMe, M.2 blade
3D TLC
Speeds: up to ~3,200 MB/s read, up to ~3,000 MB/s write (1TB)
Compatibility status: Unknown


While In this post

Upgrading 2013/2014 Macbook Pro SSD to M.2 NVMe



Which NVMe SSDs are known to work?
You will need to buy a M.2 adaptor for all the below SSDs :

* Adata NVMe SSD : SX6000, SX7000, SX8200, SX8200 Pro etc.
* Corsair NVMe SSD : MP500, MP510
* Crucial NVMe SSD : P1
* HP NVMe SSD : ex920, ex950
* OCZ RD400 (and all Toshiba XG3-XG4-XG5-XG5p-XG6 line)



In this post show that it's compatible with Macbook pro, is that means should work in Mac Pro 7,1?
Until someone buy one and use it for sometime, the compatibility status will keep as unknown.

Said that, Toshiba blades in general are very compatible with Macs, but quirks are known to happen, like Samsung 970 EVO+ initial firmware incompatibility problem.

Trouble free with MacBook Pros don’t guarantee the same with Mac Pros, it’s just a good indicator. Some blades that work perfectly with Mac Pros are bad for MacBook Pros and vice-versa.
 

TimmyCrook

macrumors member
Jan 9, 2019
69
56
lol, for the same price you can get now the better and faster 3,0x16 HP7101
with 4 pieces of 2TB samsung best blades.
change the fan for 5.1 (near 6000MB/s) or remove it for the 7.1 (near 12.000MB/s)


I ordered this Accelsior from OWC before the price hike. Now my order is according to them "never went through, we have no record." Now they are stating that the Mac Pro version, is now thinner, and a different form factor. How convenient.

I think
I'm all set with OWC products.

These configs sound really promising. from
BareFeats

Amfeltec 6x6 in 2019 MP
= Amfeltec Squid PCIe 3.0 Carrier Board with six M.2 Samsung 970 Pro 512GB modules in RAID 0 config in the 2019 Mac Pro's x16 PCIe 3.0 slot

Sonnet 4x4 in 2019 MP = Sonnet Technologies M.2 4x4 PCIe 3.0 Carrier Board with four 970 Pro 512GB modules in RAID 0 config in the 2019 Mac Pro's x16 PCIe 3.0 slot

Just a few questions from the noob.

Do all slots have to be filled?
Do all slots have to be the same storage capacity?
Can you use different SSD brands at the same time?
 
Last edited:

zhpenn

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2014
240
100
Until someone buy one and use it for sometime, the compatibility status will keep as unknown.

Said that, Toshiba blades in general are very compatible with Macs, but quirks are known to happen, like Samsung 970 EVO+ initial firmware incompatibility problem.

Trouble free with MacBook Pros don’t guarantee the same with Mac Pros, it’s just a good indicator. Some blades that work perfectly with Mac Pros are bad for MacBook Pros and vice-versa.
Thanks a lot, I bought one , will try it in Fab when I back to work
 

kohlson

macrumors 68020
Apr 23, 2010
2,425
737
I am now running off a regular SSD attached to a PCIe card, just wondering how much faster an NVMe will be attached to a similar card.
Maximal throughput? 2-3 times faster. That is an NVMe SSD in a PCIe adapter runs about 1450-1500MBps, while SATA SSD run about 550MBps max.

Whether you notice any performance difference will depend on your workflow and apps..
 

Romanesco

macrumors regular
Jul 8, 2015
126
65
New York City
I went for an EZDIY-FAB NVME PCIe Adapter for my 960 EVO and planning to add another 970 EVO Plus in a separate PCIe adapter.

What I like about the EZDIY is that it stays hidden inside the Mac Pro, without the need to remove any of the back plates. However... that heatsink feels extra. So far, peak temperatures for the 960 EVO under Windows have reached 55C max and hover at ~40C when idle. Under macOS, temperatures stay put at 38C or lower while Apple's SSDs hover at 27C. I don't have any other clear references on what real-world temperatures are expected for any other common blades.

Advice on whether I should keep the heatsink on top or remove it entirely when used in the Mac Pro?

Untitled-1 copy.jpg
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,968
4,262
Do all slots have to be the same storage capacity?
Not necessarily. The partitions used for RAID 0 need to be the same size. If you have a 512GB and 1TB device, then you can create a 1TB raid with 512GB free on the 1TB device which can be used for a non-RAID partition. There is a small drawback where you can't read from both the RAID and non RAID partitions at the same time.

If you're not using RAID that storage capacity doesn't matter.
 
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joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,968
4,262
I have ioreg and IORegistryExplorer.app reports, I can send you by PM if you want to take a look. For SystemProfiler, Timo Perfitt from Twocanoes Software posted here.
It seems SystemProfiler also includes a dump of ioreg. Might be nice if it were in an IORegisteryExplorer.app dump file to make it easier to navigate. One problem with SystemProfiler is the ioreg lines are truncated to 550 characters. That is enough for most information, but I can't use it to extract EDID for his Thunderbolt Display for example.

He has a video where he connects a SATA data cable from inside the MacPro7,1 to a DVD drive in another computer. Also in the video you can see the Thunderbolt 1 cable from the Thunderbolt display has partially dissolved at the connector end in typical Apple cable fashion (they're made of a material that melts in your hands...some kind of environmental thing I guess).

Looking at the ioreg, I see 5 PCI roots:

PCI0 (USB, SATA, serial UART, IMEI, T2, Wireless, 10G Ethernet, ...)
PC01 slot 1 (graphics)
PC02 pex8796 upstream (Pool A?), pex downstream for Slot-2, 4, 5, 6, 7
PC03 slot 3 (other graphics slot not populated)
PC04 pex8796 upstream (Pool B?), pex downstream for Thunderbolt controller 1 : Slot-8 (Thunderbolt downstream ports are also named Slot-8), Thunderbolt controller 2 (top thunderbolt ports don't have a slot name).

I guess PC01, PC02, PC03, PC04 are connected to the CPU.

Is all of PCI0 part of the chipset (PCH) and not the CPU? That would mean the built in SSD shares the PCH DMI connection with all the other stuff connected to the PCH.

Do the slots change between PC02 and PC04 when you reorganize the pools in the PCI Expansion Utility? If you have ioreg that answers that question then please PM me.
Code:
cd Info\ from\ tperfitt

source ../scripts/EDIDUtil.sh
source ../scripts/gfxutil.sh

loadioregfile ioreg.txt # doesn't work because ioreg file lines are truncated to 550 characters.
listedids
dumpedidall
decodeall
edidbinall


# extract nvram.plist and ioreg.txt from gist1.txt, then examine the results:

# Translate nvram
for thekey in $(sed -nE '/<key>(.*)<\/key>/s//\1/p' nvram.plist); do
    thedata=$(/usr/libexec/PlistBuddy -c "Print :${thekey//:/\:}" nvram.plist | xxd -p -c 99999)
    thedata=${thedata%0a} # remove extra linefeed that was added by PlistBuddy
    printf "%s = %s = %s" $thekey $thedata "\"$(xxd -p -r <<< $thedata | tr -C '[:print:]' '.')\""
    if [[ $thedata =~ ".*7fff0400" ]]; then
        printf "%s" " = \"$(gfxutil $thedata)\""
    fi
    echo
done > nvram.txt


# Get all ioreg nodes
sed -nE '/^[ |]*\+/p' ioreg.txt > ioregsummary.txt


# Get all ioreg paths
thefilename=ioreg.txt
perl -e '
    $thepath=""; while (<>) {
        if ( /^([ |]*)\+\-o (.+)  </ ) { $indent = (length $1) / 2; $name = $2; $thepath =~ s|^((/[^/]*){$indent}).*|$1/$name|; print $thepath . "\n" }
    }
' < "${thefilename}" > ioregfullpaths.txt


# Get slot names
eval "$(
thefilename=ioreg.txt
perl -e '
    $thepath=""; while (<>) {
        if ( /^([ |]*)\+\-o (.+)  </ ) { $indent = (length $1) / 2; $name = $2; $thepath =~ s|^((/[^/]*){$indent}).*|$1/$name| }
        if ( /^[ |]*"(AAPL,slot-name)" = <(.*)00>/i ) { print "echo \"" . $thepath . "/" . $1 . " = <\$(xxd -p -r <<< " . $2 . ")>\"\n" }
    }
' < "${thefilename}"
)" > slotnames.txt

/Volumes/Storage/Downloads/ParseIORegPCILinkStatus.sh ioreg.txt > parsedioreg.txt
 

Zen_Arcade

macrumors 6502
Jun 3, 2019
415
576
If it helps anyone:

Successfully installed a 2 TB Intel 660p, with the Sintech NGFF adapter, in a 6,1. Installed Mojave from USB installer; appears to be working perfectly.

Kept the original 256 GB stick for firmware/bootrom updates.
 

TimmyCrook

macrumors member
Jan 9, 2019
69
56
Thoughts on this SSD?

Inland Premium NVME SSD Internal Drive (2TB)
SOLID STATE SPECIFICATIONS

  • Capacity: 2TB
  • Read Speed: 3,200 MBps
  • Write Speed: 2,900 MB/s
  • Interface: PCIe Gen 3 x 4
  • Form Factor: M.2 2280
  • Architecture: 3D NAND Flash
  • Random Read 4K: 460,000 IOPS
  • Random Write 4K: 450,000 IOPS
  • Supported Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8,10
  • Endurance: 3200 TBW
 
Last edited:

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
Thoughts on this SSD?

Inland Premium NVME SSD Internal Drive (2TB)
SOLID STATE SPECIFICATIONS
  • Capacity: 2TB
  • Read Speed: 3,200 MBps
  • Write Speed: 2,900 MB/s
  • Interface: PCIe Gen 3 x 4
  • Form Factor: M.2 2280
  • Architecture: 3D NAND Flash
  • Random Read 4K: 460,000 IOPS
  • Random Write 4K: 450,000 IOPS
  • Supported Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8,10
  • Endurance: 3200 TBW
Do you see "Apple OSX" in the supported list?
 
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TimmyCrook

macrumors member
Jan 9, 2019
69
56
Do you see "Apple OSX" in the supported list?

i did not. it is MicroCenters in-house brand. Saw this on Amazon. Guy at MicroCenter in Cambridge MA, said it would work. So maybe I just buy it, test and if it does not work. Return. It's a really good price.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
i did not. it is MicroCenters in-house brand. Saw this on Amazon. Guy at MicroCenter in Cambridge MA, said it would work. So maybe I just buy it, test and if it does not work. Return. It's a really good price.
Sounds like a reasonable approach for a cheap USB device.

For data storage, when the failure may not occur for weeks or months, and will cause a big headache - not so much. Get a known good drive, like a Samsung.
 
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TimmyCrook

macrumors member
Jan 9, 2019
69
56
I have certainly had it with MacSales. I have read some poor things on here about the Accelsior, but was still trying to see if this was a good solution. They say the form factor changed, but the measurements on the site are identical, and so are the Part #'s. For the one they say is only for the MacPro. Now they are saying it's less than a mm of difference, and that is the reason for the 30 to 40% price jump.

screen-shot-2020-01-07-at-7-41-42-pm-png.887376
 

Kedbear

macrumors member
Dec 15, 2019
79
55
I have certainly had it with MacSales. I have read some poor things on here about the Accelsior, but was still trying to see if this was a good solution. They say the form factor changed, but the measurements on the site are identical, and so are the Part #'s. For the one they say is only for the MacPro. Now they are saying it's less than a mm of difference, and that is the reason for the 30 to 40% price jump.

screen-shot-2020-01-07-at-7-41-42-pm-png.887376

Sheesh what’s with the entitlement and aggression? This is business. You don’t like the price shop elsewhere, there’s plenty of great and better options.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,455
13,601
Samsungs new SSD 980 Pro was launched.
I wonder what it could perform in a HP card in a cMP 5.1 running High Sierra.
Still a x4 device, just PCIe 4.0.

Installed in a switched adaptor like HighPoint SSD71xx or Sonnet M.2 4x4, a M.2 PCIe 4.0 blade will be limited by the PCIe 3.0 x4 connection. So, will be less than the theoretical 3940MB/s that a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection can provide (985MB/s * 4), in real world, maybe around 3400MB/s or less.

The most interesting fact is that Samsung still uses 2-bit MLC, like 970 PRO, and the capacities are limited to 1TB. It will be the best erase/write endurance on the consumer market.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,968
4,262
Installed in a switched adaptor like HighPoint SSD71xx or Sonnet M.2 4x4, a M.2 PCIe 4.0 blade will be limited by the PCIe 3.0 x4 connection. So, will be less than the theoretical 3940MB/s that a PCIe 3.0 x4 connection can provide (985MB/s * 4), in real world, maybe around 3400MB/s or less.
We'll probably eventually see cards with PCIe 4.0 switches (unless there's an issue with the extra heat?). Before that happens, you can probably add PCIe 4.0 slots with a PCIe gen 4 backplane in a PCIe expansion box (I've only tried a gen 3 backplane). Otherwise only AMD motherboards have PCIe 4.0 slots.
 
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