MP All Models PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI

[kohlson]

Low, but not zero.

Guilty of hyperbole! You're right - as the chart you provided shows, the WD Black has access latency of 175 millionths of a second. So not zero. Just seems like it when compared to an HDD which measure seek and access latency.

On a more serious note, I believe you have a lot of practical experience in system architecture/management/administration. Any insight into SteveZee's question about client workloads like Photoshop spread across more than one SSD?

 

[AidenShaw]

Any insight into SteveZee's question about client workloads like Photoshop spread across more than one SSD?

With NVMe SSDs, it probably doesn't matter - they have extreme parallelism.

AHCI or SATA SSDs follow the access rules optimized for spinning rust. They have little parallelism, so spreading the work across multiple drives would probably help some.

 

[p11hlf]

Hi guys,

I have just got some bits together for my 5,1 upgrade and I want to double check everything should work ok before attempting the change this weekend.

i have bought

SM951: UBX controller (S4LN058A01): AHCI
2D MLC
256GB
PCIe 3.0 x4
Speeds: ~2,150 MB/s read, ~1,500 MB/s write (512 GB model)
Sector size: 512 bytes per sector
Datasheet (AHCI)
Compatibility status (AHCI): Good

and

• Wolftech pulsecard - made by Angelbird for Wolftech, it's exactly the same as Wings PX1, but without the LED illumination.

will this combo work as a Windows 10 boot drive? I have updated my firmware to 144.0.0.0.0

thanks

Phil

Hi All,

I have looked into this further and made the assumption that windows 10 is not bootable from a PCIE device unless installed with a risk to the EFI.

Perhaps in post 1, you could put a more direct FAQ section in? would save a whole load of useless questions in this massive thread

Thanks

Phil

 

[tsialex]

Hi All,

I have looked into this further and made the assumption that windows 10 is not bootable from a PCIE device unless installed with a risk to the EFI.

Perhaps in post 1, you could put a more direct FAQ section in? would save a whole load of useless questions in this massive thread

Thanks

Phil

Windows 10 installed as CSM can boot from an AHCI PCIe drive, the problem is that you can't install it to an external device, it's a Windows design limitation.

For MP5,1 firmware, anything that is not connected to a native soutbridge SATA port is a external device. You can trick macOS to think that a PCIe SSD is internal, but the moment you reboot, the control is back to the Mac firmware and then anything except the Southbrige SATA native ports are external.

So, you can't install to an AHCI drive directly, but you can run Windows from an AHCI PCIe drive (at least with a SM951-AHCI). The only ways to install CSM Windows to an AHCI PCIe SSD that I know of are:

1. via a PC that supports it as internal (like some PC motherboards that have M.2 connectors on-board and still support Windows CSM installs - rare),
2. via Windows DSIM installs,
3. via cloning from a SATA disk,
4. via VMware raw-disk.

I did options 1, 2 and 4 back in the day. Don't recommend options 2 or 4 because of the inherent complexity, but you have to work within your possibilities and do what works for you.

 

[SteveZee]

How come I dont see folks referencing this adapter?

QNAP: NVMe SSD

NVMe SSD

www.amazon.com

 

[tsialex]

How come I dont see folks referencing this adapter?

QNAP: NVMe SSD

NVMe SSD

www.amazon.com

Several people referenced it before, no one tested.

 

[flygbuss]

Hopefully one will see and answer

Can only speak for Pro Tools but audio is audio, isn't it?

Someone posted a result from a NVME benchmark with a large amount of data written to the drives.
It was some hardware site, unfortunately I can't remember who posted it and in which thread.

It showed perfectly the decreasing R/W speeds of cheaper drives compared to the 970 Pro and EVO Plus.
The WD black performed pretty good as well.

For my Syba cards I got 4 of them (2TB) and get speeds between 2700 and 3000 MB/s (single drives, no RAID) even after several attempts and with BM speed test set to 5GB.

This is overkill for my audio needs, but I use the Mac containing the drives as an audio server via 10GbE and after some tweaking I get consistently between 700 and 900 MB/s via network which is totally fine for me.

The advantage is: In case I have to move projects between the drives, it's pretty fast If I do the transfer on the mac itself.

So you might consider two 2GB Samsung SATA SSDs inside the optical drive bay. In RAID 0 you'll get 4TB for your sample libraries and the speed of approximately 450-500 MB/s should be more then enough for Kontakt. If you still need your optical drive you can sacrifice one of the drive slots and do the same thing.
As far as I know there is no difference between the SATA ports inside the cMP.

Get some MLC SSDs like the 970 Pro or better TLC drives like WD SN750 or 970 EVO Plus for yur Syba card and use those drives for your projects.

 

[Itconnects]

Can only speak for Pro Tools but audio is audio, isn't it?

Someone posted a result from a NVME benchmark with a large amount of data written to the drives.
It was some hardware site, unfortunately I can't remember who posted it and in which thread.

It showed perfectly the decreasing R/W speeds of cheaper drives compared to the 970 Pro and EVO Plus.
The WD black performed pretty good as well.

For my Syba cards I got 4 of them (2TB) and get speeds between 2700 and 3000 MB/s (single drives, no RAID) even after several attempts and with BM speed test set to 5GB.

This is overkill for my audio needs, but I use the Mac containing the drives as an audio server via 10GbE and after some tweaking I get consistently between 700 and 900 MB/s via network which is totally fine for me.

The advantage is: In case I have to move projects between the drives, it's pretty fast If I do the transfer on the mac itself.

So you might consider two 2GB Samsung SATA SSDs inside the optical drive bay. In RAID 0 you'll get 4TB for your sample libraries and the speed of approximately 450-500 MB/s should be more then enough for Kontakt. If you still need your optical drive you can sacrifice one of the drive slots and do the same thing.
As far as I know there is no difference between the SATA ports inside the cMP.

Get some MLC SSDs like the 970 Pro or better TLC drives like WD SN750 or 970 EVO Plus for yur Syba card and use those drives for your projects.

Thank you! Very well put. Have you tested omnisphere? I just recently did. It’s utilizing the full power or the nvme, so I don’t know where to put it. First world problems but it would be a bottleneck on sata ssd even in raid

 

[flygbuss]

Thank you! Very well put. Have you tested omnisphere? I just recently did. It’s utilizing the full power or the nvme, so I don’t know where to put it. First world problems but it would be a bottleneck on sata ssd even in raid

You’re welcome.

I do have omnisphere but I haven’t used it in a while. How big is that library? I mean if you put two 2 TB nvme drives on the Syba card, partition them and use one of the partition for your omnisphere samples.
Put the other samples on your sata ssds and use the rest of your nvme partitions for projects.

The internal drive bays of the cMP can be used for your backup drives.

 

[SteveZee]

Several people referenced it before, no one tested.

AAieee, someone by now??? I wish...

 

[majus]

AAieee, someone by now??? I wish...

Here's how that works: you are also a "someone" so instead of expecting another to take the plunge and test it, feel free to do so and report back.

You have the freedom of returning it plus you get free Amazon tech support, provided you buy the one they sell, so no problem there. The others listed are sold by third parties so I would pass on them unless the seller is a recognized name.

 

[flygbuss]

Thank you! Very well put. Have you tested omnisphere? I just recently did. It’s utilizing the full power or the nvme, so I don’t know where to put it. First world problems but it would be a bottleneck on sata ssd even in raid

This is the comparison I've been talking about:

WD Black SN750 SSD Review: A Not so Fresh Refresh

WD's new Black SN750 offers a surprisingly good performance upgrade through firmware and software tweaks.

www.tomshardware.com

As @tsialex pointed out, the TLC drives drop down in speed after the SLC cache is full.
The WD SN 750 black still manages to keep the speed slightly above 1500MB/s
So unless you spend the money for an MLC SSD it doesn't get much better (yet).

If you need consistent speeds above 2500MB/s the Samsung 970 Pro is a much better choice.

Edit: I kinda regret that I didn't buy the Highpoint cards because with these I could double the amount of storage, but at the time of my purchase the Highpoints were also nearly double the price of the Syba cards.

 

[SteveZee]

I dont see Sabrent on the approved list.
Scouting for MacPro 7,1 nvme.

 

[tsialex]

I dont see Sabrent on the approved list.
Scouting for MacPro 7,1 nvme.

Several users posted about different Sabrent models here in the past, use the search. It's a low cost brand that uses Phison E12 controllers and 3D TLC NAND, so be warned.

 

[bsbeamer]

The Sonnet NVMe blade list was just updated. Adds some additional relevant info including read/write speeds and now tracking 4TB models. They've added notes for using double-sided SSDs with modification. Might be helpful for some to know about. This is NOT an officially supported modification and perform at your own risk.

https://sonnettech.com/support/downloads/manuals/M2_compatibility.pdf

-----

FROM FAQ:
I would like to use double-sided SSDs. How can I do this?

Here is an guideline for users with some technical skills. Sonnet does not support or warranty this modification, but if you are up for it, here you go. Read the complete instructions before starting.

The thermal pad on the M.2 4x4 is pre-installed for single-sided SSDs. If you would like to use double-sided SSDs, you need to make a modification to the cooling system.

1. Remove the thermal pad pre-attached to the PCIe card. (Do not remove the thermal pad pre-attached to the heat sink!)
2. Get some thermal tape that is 20mm wide x 0.25mm thick. This is available on Amazon.
3. Cut four 70mm strips of tape, peel off the bottom covers from the tape, and stick a strip of tape under each M.2 position. This is the correct thickness for the two FLASH memory chips on the back end of the M.2 stick.
4. Peel off the top covers from the tape.
5. Cut four 30mm strips of tape, peel of the bottom covers from the tape, and stick a strip of tape under each M.2 position near the connector end. Two strips stacked is the correct thickness for the SRAM memory chip on the front end the M.2 stick.
6. Peel off the top covers from the tape.
7. Install the SSDs in their sockets and screw them down.

***Warning, the SSDs will be difficult to remove once stuck to the tape.***
If you need to remove and replace the SSDs, proceed carefully.

 

[Barklay]

Hello everyone! I bought kryom.2 on amazon and wd blue 550 1tb. And my 4.1/5.1 with mohave and 144.0.0.0. Doesn’t see the card neither in 1,2 or 4 pci-e slots. What i’m doing wrong?

UPD - solved, after 3 chimes-NVRAM reset it's working fine. Also. seems that SN550 series is x4, not x2. speeds are 1400/1400

 

[on the range...]

Following up on my Ableconn PEXM2-130 issues...my other HP NVMe drive arrived, and with two drives installed and the card in slot 2 (the (only) slot that caused insta-freezes previously) I have yet to have a crash or freeze. I don't know how hard you could say I've tested, but aside from running Speed Disc multiple times, i did also clone my Mojave startup to one of them (FAST ?) run Innie, and still so far so good (boot actually seems slower, but I don't care about that). Tonight I hope to leave something in a loop playback and see how it does overnight.

 

[Barklay]

Hello, again. After installing clean mojave yesterday to WD SN550, i turned down my mac. and today it didn't loaded anything, writing on black screen "Missing operating system". Once or twice i reset NVRAM again, than it's booting. but after another restart - don't. and now even the NVRAM reset doesn't help at all. What' wrong with me or my mac?

System is MP4.1/5.1, Bootrom 144, Clean installed Mojave from MAS.
p.s. i installed it from my old sata ssd with Mojave too. and then removed old ssd.
pps. sorry for my bad english.

 

[tsialex]

Hello, again. After installing clean mojave yesterday to WD SN550, i turned down my mac. and today it didn't loaded anything, writing on black screen "Missing operating system". Once or twice i reset NVRAM again, than it's booting. but after another restart - don't. and now even the NVRAM reset doesn't help at all. What' wrong with me or my mac?

System is MP4.1/5.1, Bootrom 144, Clean installed Mojave from MAS.
p.s. i installed it from my old sata ssd with Mojave too. and then removed old ssd.
pps. sorry for my bad english.

This black screen is not a macOS error message, but a DOS/Windows one. Did you correctly erased your disk before?

Something like this for showing the diskID:

diskutil list

See what is real diskID for the disk you want to erase, change diskXX to the real one, then:

sudo gpt destroy diskXX

Btw, remove any Windows or BootCamp disks while you diagnose this matter.

 

[Barklay]

This black screen is not a macOS error message, but a DOS/Windows one. Did you correctly erased your disk before?

Something like this for showing the diskID:

diskutil list

See what is real diskID for the disk you want to erase, change diskXX to the real one, then:

sudo gpt destroy diskXX

Btw, remove any Windows or BootCamp disks while you diagnose this matter.

I do not have any windows disks.
All i have when installed, is old sata ssd with mojave, from which i installed new mojave to nvme. First time i have to clear nvram, after that adapter recognized, i formatted it to apfs, then install mojave to it. it loaded, i moved my files from old ssd. it's just worked fine until shutdown.
Then i removed old ssd and see the black screen.
Maybe the loader is on the old ssd and i must do clean install from usb? can i put old GT120 to see boot screen?
i did't understood about diskID, i must do it under mac os from my old ssd?
I have RX560, and can't see bootscreen.

 

[tsialex]

I do not have any windows disks.
All i have when installed, is old sata ssd with mojave, from which i installed new mojave to nvme. First time i have to clear nvram, after that adapter recognized, i formatted it to apfs, then install mojave to it. it loaded, i moved my files from old ssd. ot just worked fine until shutdown.
Then i removed old ssd and see the black screen.
Maybe the loader is on the old ssd and i must do clean install from usb? can i put old GT120 to see boot screen?
i did't understood about diskID, i must do it under mac os from my old ssd?
I have RX560, and can't see bootscreen.

From macOS terminal, no need for pre-boot configuration support here.

 

[Barklay]

From macOS terminal, no need for pre-boot configuration support here.

Thank You, tsialex!
"sudo gpt destroy diskXX" will erase data on ssd or not?

 

[tsialex]

Thank You, tsialex!
"sudo gpt destroy diskXX" will erase data on ssd or not?

Totally erase.

 

[Barklay]

Totally erase.

And no other way i can go?

 

[tsialex]

And no other way i can go?

The first step to diagnose a M.2 blade that we don't know about it's compatibility is from a totally clean start.

You can always try to repair it, but this is the prime example of the situation that you have to much unknowns.