Apple Discussions is usually trash, across the board. Every question is pounced on by some clueless "expert" who offers only generic troubleshooting advice. One is much better off here, usually, or maybe on AskDifferent or Reddit.
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PCs last longer than Macs
- Thread starter iHorseHead
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This is why I love MacRumors, but if you post a link to MacRumors about how to upgrade your unsupported Mac it’ll get deleted and people tell the average users to buy a new Mac.
my main beef is Apple not providing security updates and the OS becomes obsolete too quickly
Sadly, I know the moment I get my next Mac, the clock for the loss of macOS and features support will start ticking. Probably 7 years for macOS support, and 4 to 5 years to not receive new features.
That’s why I’m putting off the most I can the purchase of my next Mac mini. My 2014 Mac mini (Core i5 @ 2.60GHz + 8GB of RAM + 1TB SSD) is running Monterey pretty well, and for basic, non demanding tasks, it works very well.
However, I’d like to have an Apple Silicon Mac mini (because at this point I no longer believe Apple could launch a 12” MacBook), because some tasks like video compression are way faster on those machines. And because I would like to run Sequoia, have widgets on the Mac, be able to see my iPhone on there, and all the new features.
But at the same time, I know that if I get a cheap M1 Mac mini, it will have a much shorter lifespan than a future M4 or even M5 Mac mini, so… I keep waiting until I feel like it’s the best moment to jump ship from my Intel computer. Which will be soon because I don’t think I’ll keep receiving security patches once Sequoia launches in September.
PS: please don’t bother recommending me the OpenCore Legacy Patcher, because 1) I don’t like to install things on the EFI boot system and tinkering at such a low level granting access to my Apple ID password and data, and 2) once macOS completely ditches X86 computers, likely next year, it will no longer be a viable alternative.
PS2: Once Apple starts shipping Macs with a minimum of 12 or 16GB of RAM, that will eventually become a cutting point for dropping support to previous models.
TL;DR: because Apple limits software support to ~7 years in the Mac platform, I’m delaying the purchase of a new machine in order to have as many software updates as possible. On a Windows machine, that wouldn’t probably be a trouble, because as long as the PC has decent specs, you can keep installing new Windows versions (exception came with W11 with the boot hardware requirements). And even if you have Windows 10, you still get support for a lot of software .
That’s why I’m putting off the most I can the purchase of my next Mac mini. My 2014 Mac mini (Core i5 @ 2.60GHz + 8GB of RAM + 1TB SSD) is running Monterey pretty well, and for basic, non demanding tasks, it works very well.
However, I’d like to have an Apple Silicon Mac mini (because at this point I no longer believe Apple could launch a 12” MacBook), because some tasks like video compression are way faster on those machines. And because I would like to run Sequoia, have widgets on the Mac, be able to see my iPhone on there, and all the new features.
But at the same time, I know that if I get a cheap M1 Mac mini, it will have a much shorter lifespan than a future M4 or even M5 Mac mini, so… I keep waiting until I feel like it’s the best moment to jump ship from my Intel computer. Which will be soon because I don’t think I’ll keep receiving security patches once Sequoia launches in September.
PS: please don’t bother recommending me the OpenCore Legacy Patcher, because 1) I don’t like to install things on the EFI boot system and tinkering at such a low level granting access to my Apple ID password and data, and 2) once macOS completely ditches X86 computers, likely next year, it will no longer be a viable alternative.
PS2: Once Apple starts shipping Macs with a minimum of 12 or 16GB of RAM, that will eventually become a cutting point for dropping support to previous models.
TL;DR: because Apple limits software support to ~7 years in the Mac platform, I’m delaying the purchase of a new machine in order to have as many software updates as possible. On a Windows machine, that wouldn’t probably be a trouble, because as long as the PC has decent specs, you can keep installing new Windows versions (exception came with W11 with the boot hardware requirements). And even if you have Windows 10, you still get support for a lot of software .
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I agree. My daily driver is an 11-year old mid-range PC with only an SSD upgrade in between, and with Windows 10 LTSC I could probably continue to use it for another five years or so with security updates, and in any case with Linux. Even Windows 7 still receives Defender updates. A new mid-range PC would be about twice as fast for single-core (which is still the most important measure for many tasks), but not orders of magnitude faster. I use a 3-year-old higher-end PC at work and rarely feel a difference, thanks to Intel’s near-stagnation in the 2010s.
Microsoft’s artificial hardware requirements and shortened release cycle with Windows 11 changes the equation for Windows unfortunately, along with less differentiation between security and functional updates (forcing you to have the latter if you want the former), and it’s bound to become more similar to macOS in terms of support period.
Microsoft’s artificial hardware requirements and shortened release cycle with Windows 11 changes the equation for Windows unfortunately, along with less differentiation between security and functional updates (forcing you to have the latter if you want the former), and it’s bound to become more similar to macOS in terms of support period.
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I think you should do it as soon as possible and never look back.
At my work we have no choice but to dispose of perfectly working Macs when they will no longer receive security updates. These days we do have quite a few Windows machines outliving Macs. Most are 6-8th gen Intel Core powered although some will have to be retired next year once Windows 10 goes out of support. Otherwise, most still run great with an SSD and a reasonable amount of memory for their task.
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My first two laptops were Vaios. First was a 14" running XP and cost over £800, with the lousiest integrated graphics incapable of even processing the then-new Vista transparency options. 1GB RAM and mechanical HD which I upgraded to 2GB and 7200 RPM Seagate ASAP. Easy as pie. Just a few screws with no tricky disassembly/reassembly whatsoever.
The relationships between Sony and Windows drivers certainly presented a learning curve though... and that first Vaio had more system recoveries and fresh installs than I've done on all the machines I've worked on since. The Windows registry was a pig to learn but a bit of a money-spinner for me once I learned how to edit it to fix many of the problems people were bringing their machines to me with.
The Vaio I replaced it with was a lot better, with dedicated GPU, but still had a 5400 RPM HD which I upgraded with a Samsung SSD. Ended up replacing it after a couple of years with an i7/Nvidia-equipped MSI gaming laptop. That was awesome apart from that stupid dual graphics idea that just isn't worth the trouble it creates.
Battery replacement aside, one thing I can say about any of the apple products I've owned is that I've never found myself wanting to upgrade any of the other hardware in them.
The relationships between Sony and Windows drivers certainly presented a learning curve though... and that first Vaio had more system recoveries and fresh installs than I've done on all the machines I've worked on since. The Windows registry was a pig to learn but a bit of a money-spinner for me once I learned how to edit it to fix many of the problems people were bringing their machines to me with.
The Vaio I replaced it with was a lot better, with dedicated GPU, but still had a 5400 RPM HD which I upgraded with a Samsung SSD. Ended up replacing it after a couple of years with an i7/Nvidia-equipped MSI gaming laptop. That was awesome apart from that stupid dual graphics idea that just isn't worth the trouble it creates.
Battery replacement aside, one thing I can say about any of the apple products I've owned is that I've never found myself wanting to upgrade any of the other hardware in them.
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Windows 11 runs on nearly anything with a CPU! It’s amazing; kudos Microsoft. I have it running on 2008 and 2009 iMacs and a 2010 Mac mini with 4 gb RAM, core 2 duo CPUs, and SSDs. Win 11 runs surprisingly well on these machines - way better than any recent Mac OS.
Microsoft has gotten more strict and Apple-like with OS support lately, requiring the third-party patchers to exist. But if you’re okay ditching both MacOS and Windows, then you can keep it going for seemingly forever on Linux like I did with my 2009 Mac mini in use as a server. I hope this will be possible on Apple Silicon someday like it has been on Intel Macs.
I also think, Apple should at least provide security patches and bug fixes for older hardware for longer. Macs from 2015 with SSDs and sufficient RAM still perform very well and are absolutely suited for everyday tasks. The current model where Apple only really fixes bugs in the most recent release is really bad for the consumer. And I'm not asking for new features. Those can be reserved for the latest hardware.
I’m a tinkerer, and in my experience the macrumors community has been very supportive of hardware modifications/ upgrades. That said, I told my former office mate how I upgraded my iMac to a SSD using suction cups and a couple of screwdrivers. So he went home and tried it on his iMac, but ended up tearing all the display cables and somehow bricking the machine. He was awfully pissed at me for not warning him how “hard” it was. And on the internet it’s awfully hard to gauge the technical capabilities of others. I think it comes down to most people being cautious to prevent upgrade disasters.
I got Windows 11 run on older hardware with no issues at all, but I can't do a clean installation. It goes by Windows 10 -> Upgrade. If I try to do clean install it says that it's unsupported. I see that people haven't tried W11.
I agree. There's no reason why Monterey shouldn't be able to receive security updates for 2 more years. Just quite recently MacBook Air (the older one from 2017) was still sold everywhere.
Let the person have an opinion. If someone doesn't feel confident with Mac anymore, then so be it. Its just a consumer electronic at the end of the day, not some cult or religion 😅
Oh definitely, and support for longer with apps, at least for the amount of time the security updates are currently provided. Being told your less than two year out-of-date OS can’t run the latest version of a word processor (Pages) is absolutely ridiculous.
I’m only one person with a sole experience however my Mac’s have without doubt lasted longer than any PC’s I’ve owned.
By a considerable margin I should state also.
By a considerable margin I should state also.
Apple's support is ridiculous and the OS becomes outdated pretty fast as developers drop the support as well. I am so certain that MacBook Air M1 16GB will lose support quicker than M3 8GB MacBook Air. It has always been this way.
Quite possibly the dumbest post I’ve seen here.
1. He literally had to take apart the laptop to repair and upgrade it.
2. He also says this in the video description.
3. Repairing and upgrading a laptop that is a pain in the ass is probably something that very few people have the time and energy to do.
4. Laptops with Apple Silicon are more powerful than intel ones which means they are more likely to get updates for longer. Plus way better battery life which is the cherry on top.
5. Windows is notorious for being lax on security. If I had to choose between a Windows 11 laptop and a Mac on older software with security updates? I choose the Mac. Every time.
1. He literally had to take apart the laptop to repair and upgrade it.
2. He also says this in the video description.
3. Repairing and upgrading a laptop that is a pain in the ass is probably something that very few people have the time and energy to do.
4. Laptops with Apple Silicon are more powerful than intel ones which means they are more likely to get updates for longer. Plus way better battery life which is the cherry on top.
5. Windows is notorious for being lax on security. If I had to choose between a Windows 11 laptop and a Mac on older software with security updates? I choose the Mac. Every time.
1. That is the main issue. You can't repair your MacBook nor upgrade it.
2. Yup. Badly designed and difficult to repair.
3. If you can't do it then don't do it
4. New Intel processors are more powerful. https://www.tomsguide.com/news/m3-i...ite-intel-and-amd-have-closed-the-gap-as-well
5. Windows is more secure and supported for longer than macOS. Apple forces obsolescence on its users. macOS is just less targeted, but Apple fides security holes slowly and I mean MacBook Pro mid 2010 is still secure on Windows 10, not so secure on High Sierra etc… Apple's software becomes obsolete incredibly fast. Keep yourself up to date.
You should probably link to an actual review of the new Snapdragon machines rather than an article about alleged leaked benchmarks. From my research the M3 Max is still on top overall.
I still have a B&W Power Mac that I upgraded to a G4 that still runs; eventually going to do something crazy with it, no where near runs the latest OS, but that fact it still works is pretty cool (circa 1999).
The original computer my brother and I learned on still works also (with my brother in Chicago); which was a Ohio Scientific Super Board II.
Typically computers that stop working just were not properly taken care of; or had parts with known design issues.
What makes you think PCs don't run from that era? You can get a Windows 95 PC for $5
My point was Apple should provide macOS security updates for around 5 years or let users upgrade. No idea why this triggers people.
Here's a whole huge thread devoted to exactly this subject: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-14-sonoma-on-unsupported-macs-thread.2391630/