PCs last longer than Macs

[chmania]

Windows 11 support on 2008 machines isn't official and was achieved using community patches, and macOS has similar community patches too.

Well, not really. There are no such "community" patches in MS Windows platform, but Microsoft itself shows how to install Windows 11 on so-called unsupported PCs >> ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e

Sure, there's a GitHub script (few of them), but that's not a "community" patch, the same way OCLP is not an Apple community patch. I installed Windows 11 in my 2018 15" MBP through boot camp using that script. But, I could use what Microsoft shows us how-to, but it was easy with the script. Otherwise, there's no way to install Windows 11 on a MBP.

 

[iHorseHead]

Here's a whole huge thread devoted to exactly this subject: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-14-sonoma-on-unsupported-macs-thread.2391630/

As pointed out when you post it on Apple Discussions it'll get deleted and people tell the users to buy new Macs.

 

[avkills]

What makes you think PCs don't run from that era? You can get a Windows 95 PC for $5
My point was Apple should provide macOS security updates for around 5 years or let users upgrade. No idea why this triggers people.

Every Mac I have owned has at least been able to upgrade to the latest OS within the 5 year mark; and Apple usually releases security updates for 1-2 years on older OS versions; so I don't get what the beef is exactly.

 

[iHorseHead]

Every Mac I have owned has at least been able to upgrade to the latest OS within the 5 year mark; and Apple usually releases security updates for 1-2 years on older OS versions; so I don't get what the beef is exactly.

MacBook 4,1 was supported for 4 years from 2008 - 2011 (didn't get mountain lion) and by 2014 it was unusable and full of security holes that didn't get fixed while Windows was doing a lot better.

 

[avkills]

MacBook 4,1 was supported for 4 years from 2008 - 2011 (didn't get mountain lion) and by 2014 it was unusable and full of security holes that didn't get fixed while Windows was doing a lot better.

Wow, one instance that doesn't fit the norm; I guess it sucked for whoever bought MacBook 4,1 models.

Although you think the purchasers of Mac Book 4,1 are more upset than people like me who bought 2019 Mac Pro's?

Bitching about obsolescent in computers is pretty much like pissing into the wind.

 

[iHorseHead]

Wow, one instance that doesn't fit the norm; I guess it sucked for whoever bought MacBook 4,1 models.

Although you think the purchasers of Mac Book 4,1 are more upset than people like me who bought 2019 Mac Pro's?

Bitching about obsolescent in computers is pretty much like pissing into the wind.

I can bring you many more instances. What's wrong with wanting Apple to release security updates for additional years? If Linux and Microsoft can do it then why can't Apple? It's not like anything changes in macOS. What's the difference between El Capitan and let's say Big Sur? Do they have to program security updates separately? Also, why do I need the latest macOS release to run the latest version of Pages while Microsoft office runs just fine and gets updated? Why is it absurd to want my computer to last and be future proof in every way? Apple claims that they care about the environment but they really don't. You can't even upgrade your Mac…

 

[stiligFox]

I mean, every Apple device I’ve ever had still works - my PowerBook G3 from 2001 still runs just fine and does all things it did back then. I have a 2012 Mac mini that still runs 24/7 doing house server duties. iPods from 2001-2009 that see very regular use. An iPhone from 2018 that saw SO MUCH abuse from me but keeps chugging along despite missing several components.

Software wise sure things get outdated but Apple hardware is overall pretty resilient. I’ve had Dell laptops that started eating their own storage, the PC I built in 2017 ended up having its motherboard go bad for no apparent reason.

Tech is basically a thing that will last as long as it’s maintained properly. Capacitors and fans, and spinning hard drives are about the only things that go bad on these things so any brand should in theory last forever as long as it was designed well. A lot of Windows devices have a knack for overheating themselves and have poor thermals, which leads to an earlier death - but that can often be fixed if a user is willing to tinker.

Just my own experiences though - obviously only anecdotal.

 

[iHorseHead]

I mean, every Apple device I’ve ever had still works - my PowerBook G3 from 2001 still runs just fine and does all things it did back then. I have a 2012 Mac mini that still runs 24/7 doing house server duties. iPods from 2001-2009 that see very regular use. An iPhone from 2018 that saw SO MUCH abuse from me but keeps chugging along despite missing several components.

Software wise sure things get outdated but Apple hardware is overall pretty resilient. I’ve had Dell laptops that started eating their own storage, the PC I built in 2017 ended up having its motherboard go bad for no apparent reason.

Tech is basically a thing that will last as long as it’s maintained properly. Capacitors and fans, and spinning hard drives are about the only things that go bad on these things so any brand should in theory last forever as long as it was designed well. A lot of Windows devices have a knack for overheating themselves and have poor thermals, which leads to an earlier death - but that can often be fixed if a user is willing to tinker.

Just my own experiences though - obviously only anecdotal.

Lois Rossman disagrees with you. It's as stupid as people not liking Macs because their Mac broke. Every PC I have still works and so does every Mac. Never had an issue with anything, except with my Raspberry. It's painfully slow.

 

[MBAir2010]

1. That is the main issue. You can't repair your MacBook nor upgrade it.

i upgraded mine several times, even last week,
but that MBP was made during the Steve Jobs regime.

Dell now is making Macooks®, notebooks that can't be upgraded.

 

[MBAir2010]

I have a 2012 Mac mini that still runs 24/7 doing house server duties. iPods from 2001-2009 that see very regular use.

My mac mini m1 running safari had problems streaming euro sports yesterday,
every 5 minutes i need to refresh the page, which was annoying and surprising.

Yesterday, i received a mac mini from 2012 that is now
streaming the England Swiss match without a stop so far.

i know football/soccer is boring, but not that boring were the mini stops and sleeps.....

 

[WarmWinterHat]

i upgraded mine several times, even last week,
but that MBP was made during the Steve Jobs regime.

Dell now is making Macooks®, notebooks that can't be upgraded.

That they (Dell) are. My work laptop has a soldered processor and soldered ram.

 

[rm5]

I don't know if that's entirely true. If this laptop is from 2008, and is running Windows 11, a MacBook from 2008 can ALSO run Sonoma.

I don't know. Lately I feel like Apple products are not worth it anymore. Especially since new iPhones are one year behind of Pro models. Apple is behaving like Samsung lately. The same goes for Macs. I've just lost it. I remember back in 2007-18 I used to love Apple so much and the Keynotes etc, but now I've looked around and realised that PCs are better than Macs and more secure. The pricing is better as well.Nothing still beats the iPad though.

I agree with you here. I sold my M1 MacBook Air for a Lenovo Legion, because I wanted not only a faster computer (the CPU in the Legion is at least three times faster than the M1 in Cinebench, and the GPU is so much faster you almost can't even compare it). But I also wanted a laptop where you can upgrade the RAM and storage. A MacBook gave me none of these things.

Sure, there are things that I miss from my MacBook, like iMessage, or even just the fact that the M1 had much longer battery life--but I've figured out solutions to those problems. And I still have a 2019 iMac, too.

Your point about PCs being more secure--I don't really know. I sure don't get the Secure Enclave, or hardware-based encryption or any of that on this Lenovo...

 

[Biro]

To the OP: You wrote “I don’t know” at least twice in your original post. But it sounds like you have answered your own question. You now prefer Windows. I don’t know (pun intended) if you simply came here for an argument. But I say go forth, buy a new Windows machine and be happy.

I’m essentially all-Apple in my house but I usually keep a single Windows laptop around just in case - and picked up a new one on sale a month or so ago. I had to spend most of a day searching for and turning off all of the paths Microsoft had to market to me in Windows 11. It’s gotten really bad. And we haven’t even started on Co-Pilot.

 

[MBAir2010]

That they (Dell) are. My work laptop has a soldered processor and soldered ram.

My brand spanking new dell xps 13" 2019 8360 had a swap-able ssd drive,
sadly that stopped charging the "un-replaceble battery" according to their sales support-less staff.
in 2022 the usb ports stopped working.
i think that is in a gigantic heap of recycling dell xps overlooking some comfy homes in Manaju, Sulawesi!

 

[MilaM]

Every Mac I have owned has at least been able to upgrade to the latest OS within the 5 year mark; and Apple usually releases security updates for 1-2 years on older OS versions; so I don't get what the beef is exactly.

I'm writing this on a 2017 iMac which was superseded by a new model in March 2019. I'm stuck on Ventura released in 2022, which means it only received upgrades to four major releases after the last sale. I have a little bit more than one year of security patches left until 2025. Not great.

 

[aevan]

First of all, no they don’t.

Second - even if they do, the trade-off is that Macs are better while they do last.

 

[iHorseHead]

To the OP: You wrote “I don’t know” at least twice in your original post. But it sounds like you have answered your own question. You now prefer Windows. I don’t know (pun intended) if you simply came here for an argument. But I say go forth, buy a new Windows machine and be happy.

I don't really prefer Windows. There are many positive things about a Mac, but the fact that they drop the support so fast (and always have) is just insane to me and I don't know…Lately I've lost my ''obsession'' with Apple and have somehow realised that they're not really worth defending anymore. The same goes for iOS. I think Apple should provide additional security updates for each OS for at least 5 years and I believe it's not difficult to do so.
It breaks my heart that Monterey won't be supported for much longer and so many retailers were selling MacBook Air 2017 just quite recently.

I mean this one and over here it was nearly a $1000. And now Intel's MBA is losing support as well and soon the M1, while PCs just keep working on and receiving updates.

You do know that Windows Enterprise edition is bloat free from everything, right? Has no ads, no junk and works well. You don't have to use home edition and bloat is easy to get rid of. Also, I think the situation might be different depending on the country. I don't get many Apple's apps over here either, for example there's no Apple News etc and the same goes for Microsoft.
I haven't noticed Microsoft pushing Windows 11 on me. Just on the update menu when I check for updates but I can easily ignore that.

Also, what's wrong with wanting Apple to provide at least 4-5 years of security updates instead of 2? I don't see it as a bad thing. What makes it even worse is that for example Mountain Lion (unsupported) worked a lot better on MacBook 4,1 than Lion ever did. There was no reason for Apple to drop the support that fast and now they're doing the same with Intel Macs and leaving them without security updates.

 

[aevan]

I'm writing this on a 2017 iMac which was superseded by a new model in March 2019. I'm stuck on Ventura released in 2022, which means it only received upgrades to four major releases after the last sale. I have a little bit more than one year of security patches left until 2025. Not great.

I have a Macbook Pro from 2016 in my house that stopped receiving updates. It is fine. Works fine. What exactly are you expecting - that your computer explodes without security patches?

Windows 10 support will end next year. All those Windows 10 computers will stop receiving patches. I have a relatively modern 12-core Ryzen PC and I can’t install Win 11 officially because of that TPM or whatever. The CPU supports it, but I guess the motherboard doesn’t.

 

[aevan]

The same goes for iOS. I think Apple should provide additional security updates for each OS for at least 5 years and I believe it's not difficult to do so.

Name a phone that has longer OS and security support that iPhones. I’ll wait.

 

[MBAir2010]

I'm writing this on a 2017 iMac which was superseded by a new model in March 2019. I'm stuck on Ventura released in 2022, which means it only received upgrades to four major releases after the last sale. I have a little bit more than one year of security patches left until 2025. Not great.

I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro 2012 running Mountain Lion OSX and feel safe as a bank vault!

 

[iHorseHead]

I'm writing this on a 2017 iMac which was superseded by a new model in March 2019. I'm stuck on Ventura released in 2022, which means it only received upgrades to four major releases after the last sale. I have a little bit more than one year of security patches left until 2025. Not great.

This is pretty much what I'm complaining about on here. Apple shouldn't drop the support that fast. The fact that you can run newer operating systems on iMac 2017 via OpenLegacy Patcher means that Apple could also support your machine. If someone told you about OpenCoreLegacyPatcher on Apple Discussions then it'd get deleted and people would tell you to buy a new Mac. MacRumors is pretty much the only place where people can discuss and teach people on how to install newer operating systems. Microsoft is very very far from perfect, but at least they provide security updates for longer and even free Linux distros provide security patches to their older distros. Why should people throw away perfectly working Macs that soon because the software comes obsolete? Are we honestly saying that Sonoma is that advanced that Apple wasn't able to support iMac 2017? If it's true then how come OpenCoreLegacyPatcher supports it? Are we also saying that Apple can't provide security updates for longer time? They could, but they just want you to buy a new Mac. PCs are cheaper and often longer supported thus making them more secure.

 

[iHorseHead]

Name a phone that has longer OS and security support that iPhones. I’ll wait.

We're talking about mainly Macs here, which is a computer, but nowadays Pixels and Samsungs. Also Google releases security updates via Google Play.
They just stopped supporting Android 12 and with many phone manufactures you can install custom OS on them LineageOS is one of the great alternatives and it can run on Google Pixel 3 released in 2018, but then again iPhone XR from 2018 is officially supported. I don't really have complaints about iPhones security updates. Mainly about Mac's updates because Mac is a computer.
Isn't it weird that a MacBook Air from 2018 won't receive the newest OS yet XR will? Am I the only one that thinks that a computer should be supported for longer than a phone?

 

[iHorseHead]

I'm typing this on a Macbook Pro 2012 running Mountain Lion OSX and feel safe as a bank vault!

Not even Google Chrome is supported on that thing though, but you can upgrade.

 

[iHorseHead]

My brand spanking new dell xps 13" 2019 8360 had a swap-able ssd drive,
sadly that stopped charging the "un-replaceble battery" according to their sales support-less staff.
in 2022 the usb ports stopped working.
i think that is in a gigantic heap of recycling dell xps overlooking some comfy homes in Manaju, Sulawesi!

Isn't Dell XPS one of the worst brands out there these days? They're as bad as HP nowadays when it comes to durability. Not sure if it applies to all of the models.

 

[ignatius345]

As pointed out when you post it on Apple Discussions it'll get deleted and people tell the users to buy new Macs.

Oh, I see now. You were saying you can't post a link to these forums on the Apple Forums.

Yep, Apple Discussions is generally a waste of time.