I meant that Windows tends to receive more security updates and so do Linux distros than Macs. This is mainly what I mean by the security. Apple should support their operating systems for longer, especially if they're going to drop bunch of Macs.
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PCs last longer than Macs
- Thread starter iHorseHead
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i prefer MT Lion over Catalina and even boxed my macbook air m1 Monterey this Thursday
because my experience is more productive, comfortable and reliable.
On the contrary, we got my girlfriend a 2019 16“ MBP as a Windows Laptop because for the price we got it for on eBay, ~700€, new windows laptops we looked at were far from what this thing is.
The build is great, top class trackpad, great screen, really good battery, backlit keyboard(!!!), good speakers, charging on both sides and the ability to run either MacOS or Windows.
The spec we found was with 32GB Ram and 1TB ssd. Find me something close like this in stores here in Germany. You won’t, not for that price.
The build is great, top class trackpad, great screen, really good battery, backlit keyboard(!!!), good speakers, charging on both sides and the ability to run either MacOS or Windows.
The spec we found was with 32GB Ram and 1TB ssd. Find me something close like this in stores here in Germany. You won’t, not for that price.
It won't explode, I'm aware of that. But a lot of third party software won't receive updates because of some missing libraries which can not be installed independently. Also I would not advise using an outdated version of Safari. You need a browser that will receive security patches against know exploits. Firefox has decent support for old MacOS versions for example. If you want to extra cautios I would also use webmail or a third-party Mail client.
I don't really care so much what Microsoft does. Should I ever abandon macOS, I would most likely switch to a Linux desktop distro. Long-term support for most Linux distros is way better than macOS OR Windows.
Apple was selling the 2017 iMac in 2019! And it's not like they aren't supporting Intel Macs anymore. Some of them are even getting the upcoming Squoia upgrade. What can I say. I'm dissappointed by the Intel/ARM transition.
Clickbait post. That’s not a machine from 2008. Your video literally shows people basically rebuilding the entire thing. I mean the video title literally says that it’s been resurrected.
We have one iMac from 2008 at home that still gets used regularly and it’s very snappy if you don’t open too many apps at once. It only has an external ssd. No need to open it and replace the hardware. This is a true 2008 computer, not the thing you posted that had all its internals replaced by a specialist.
My iMac is running El Capitan but you can install newer versions using the open core patch
I love watching Salem Techsperts, because it makes feel so good not being a Windows PC user. Show is so funny. He'll complain and cry about his job fixing PC trash. He tries to disparage Apple, but he can't. *And he owns a 2011 MacBook Pro to this day. Sorry you can't fix my M2 that doesn't break 'greatest technician that ever lived'. 😆 Highly recommend his show to make you feel good you don't own those things. 😃
So I play around with old machines all the time and there was a magical period with Apple from 2008-2012 in where they were building their best MacBooks IMO. Those MacBooks have held up extremely well and are able to keep up with faster gaming laptops from that area in some pretty significant ways if you are looking to load Windows or a lightweight linux distro. You can't use the argument that these MacBooks don't support Windows 10/11 as easily because neither did those old Sony/Toshiba/Compaq notebooks. In many cases you might have a tougher time tracking down drivers where with an older MacBook you could shoehorn the old bootcamp drivers and things will be up and running a few minutes after installation.
Advantages for the old MacBooks:
Capable of booting off of drives larger than 2TB, older laptops usually just had a legacy bios making 2TB the limit
much easier to carry around
much better trackpad than everything else (HUGE)
backlit keyboard standard (except for the white polys and that single late entry model late 08 MacBook)
From Late 2008-2012 you could install 8GB-16GB RAM
Advantages for the old gaming laptops:
Stronger performance, but comes at a cost in weight/noise
Can potentially upgrade CPU and WiFi adapters much easier if OEM did not have a whitelist.
The gaming laptops COULD potentially be better for people looking to use these old machines, but the tradeoffs are massive. In some cases the laptop + external PSU could weigh close to DOUBLE what a 13" MacBook from back then would weigh with a terrible trackpad. I have an Alienware M17 R1 from 2008 with a Q9300 CPU and the thing was a BEAST for its day with Dual Radeon graphics etc, but I would rather use a late 2008 MacBook. The Alienware can finish tasks faster, but it comes at a high cost of dealing with a terrible trackpad and the fans ramp up almost immediately when doing anything significant. Playing games? Your audio from the internal speakers would have to be set to max or play with headphones on.
I don't know what the future holds, but I hope Apple starts opening up the possibility of installing Windows/Linux via something like BootCamp again. Doesn't seem likely, but I would like to see it become a reality.
Advantages for the old MacBooks:
Capable of booting off of drives larger than 2TB, older laptops usually just had a legacy bios making 2TB the limit
much easier to carry around
much better trackpad than everything else (HUGE)
backlit keyboard standard (except for the white polys and that single late entry model late 08 MacBook)
From Late 2008-2012 you could install 8GB-16GB RAM
Advantages for the old gaming laptops:
Stronger performance, but comes at a cost in weight/noise
Can potentially upgrade CPU and WiFi adapters much easier if OEM did not have a whitelist.
The gaming laptops COULD potentially be better for people looking to use these old machines, but the tradeoffs are massive. In some cases the laptop + external PSU could weigh close to DOUBLE what a 13" MacBook from back then would weigh with a terrible trackpad. I have an Alienware M17 R1 from 2008 with a Q9300 CPU and the thing was a BEAST for its day with Dual Radeon graphics etc, but I would rather use a late 2008 MacBook. The Alienware can finish tasks faster, but it comes at a high cost of dealing with a terrible trackpad and the fans ramp up almost immediately when doing anything significant. Playing games? Your audio from the internal speakers would have to be set to max or play with headphones on.
I don't know what the future holds, but I hope Apple starts opening up the possibility of installing Windows/Linux via something like BootCamp again. Doesn't seem likely, but I would like to see it become a reality.
I'll throw in a classic new vs used argument once again.
I am currently refurbishing an old HP AIO from 2010. It was never the highest end machine with an MSRP of $600 or so.
HP MS200 series specs:
AMD 250U (PM 597, 638)
ATI Radeon HD 3200 (integrated)
2GB RAM standard (Upgrading to 4GB)
500GB HDD (Upgrading to SSD)
DVD Burner
18.5" display (1366x768)
integrated webcam
Wireless G installed (Looking for upgrades, will update if anyone cares)
No bluetooth
iMac Mid 2007 specs:
Core2Duo T7300 (PM 680,762)
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT (128MB dedicated)
1GB RAM standard (Can upgrade to 6GB)
250GB HDD (Harder to upgrade drive)
DVD Burner
20" display (1680x1050)
integrated webcam
Wireless N
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
The question ultimately lies in what you want from a machine? Back in 2010 I am willing to bet you would have been able to pick up the mid 2007 iMac for around $600 used if you did some shopping around. Is new/used a fair comparison? Well that ultimately lies within the consumer and if you or someone you know is comfortable tinkering around the 3 year old iMac at the time was the much better buy than the new HP.
Upgrades on these two machines actually favors Apple. The AMD 260U can be installed on the HP while iFixit and other outlets have reported that even the Intel X7900 CPU would work in the iMac. Once you open up inside you can run wild in there and swap out the optical drive and even upgrade WiFi on the iMac to Wireless AC + BT 4.0.
I am currently refurbishing an old HP AIO from 2010. It was never the highest end machine with an MSRP of $600 or so.
HP MS200 series specs:
AMD 250U (PM 597, 638)
ATI Radeon HD 3200 (integrated)
2GB RAM standard (Upgrading to 4GB)
500GB HDD (Upgrading to SSD)
DVD Burner
18.5" display (1366x768)
integrated webcam
Wireless G installed (Looking for upgrades, will update if anyone cares)
No bluetooth
iMac Mid 2007 specs:
Core2Duo T7300 (PM 680,762)
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT (128MB dedicated)
1GB RAM standard (Can upgrade to 6GB)
250GB HDD (Harder to upgrade drive)
DVD Burner
20" display (1680x1050)
integrated webcam
Wireless N
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
The question ultimately lies in what you want from a machine? Back in 2010 I am willing to bet you would have been able to pick up the mid 2007 iMac for around $600 used if you did some shopping around. Is new/used a fair comparison? Well that ultimately lies within the consumer and if you or someone you know is comfortable tinkering around the 3 year old iMac at the time was the much better buy than the new HP.
Upgrades on these two machines actually favors Apple. The AMD 260U can be installed on the HP while iFixit and other outlets have reported that even the Intel X7900 CPU would work in the iMac. Once you open up inside you can run wild in there and swap out the optical drive and even upgrade WiFi on the iMac to Wireless AC + BT 4.0.
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Not on my part.
It was intended merely as a consciousness-raising (and, hopefully, thought-provoking) example of the perspective highlighting the fallacy in such hyperbole.
Imagine this thesis:
"Brussel Sprouts are nowhere near as nutritious as Cabbage!"
No, it never overheated, but the cooling system of the old towers was great. I did have to change the power supply, though.
Lies and misinformation and I work as a IT administrator in a Windows environment.
?????????
so do I. What is your point? Really, what is your point? You said nothing at all.
1. First of all, not many companies use Macs. Very rarely they do. Especially in Northern and Central Europe.
2. Almost all of the servers we have (over 10,000) run on Windows
3. Apple doesn't have any enterprise software. What is something that's equivalent to Azure? Nothing.
4. Despite very small percentage of users using a Mac we have so many tickets opened about Macs. Today 15 tickets were open, the last one being "Microphone doesn't work on a Mac" + Addigy is extremely uncomfortable to use.
5. If Windows was bad it wouldn't be so mainstream. macOS is only used by 5% of the world (15% if we count desktop only operating systems)
6. Doesn't change the fact that older PCs are more usable and receiving security updates for far longer than Apple's macOS. Compare macOS how usable is OS X El Capitan (which dropped many Macs) to Windows 10 these days and which OS is more secure.
7. Nothing they said makes sense. They didn't give a reason to anything.
Don't see why it's such a bad thing if I say Apple should support Macs more. It's not normal that iPhone XR will receive iOS 18, yet MacBook Air from 2018 won't receive anything. I'm surprised that MacBook Pro at least is supported. That means in two years those MacBook Airs from 2018 will not receive any security updates, yet Apple just sold MacBook Air's (at least the resellers did) from 2017 just couple of years ago and in autumn those Macs will be unsupported as well. The fact that OpenCoreLegacy works on those things and they can run newer operating systems proves to me that Apple is forcing people to buy new Macs, which is probably why not many companies want to use Macs, even though the OS itself is wonderful. Especially for laptops. On desktops I prefer Windows if I have multiple displays. Apple should support Macs for longer period of time + announce officially when they drop the support, so the users could keep their Macs up to date. Far too many times I've seen other Mac users using for example High Sierra on their Macs and then complain and yet they didn't even know they could upgrade.
There really aren't much software for available for Macs to manage other computers. Tell me how can I start a monitoring agent / services on Linux using some software on my Mac? IBM monitoring software etc are not supported on a Mac.
Not much of IT management software is even available for Macs. Not even PowerCenter. I, for one wouldn't be able to do most of my job tasks on a Mac.
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You can also install latest macOS on “unsupported” Macs, so I don’t get your point.
I've never used a PC that lasted longer than a Mac, ever. Speaking strictly about the hardware, Macs tend to last much longer than PCs in my experience.
In that experience, the PCs were enterprise and not personal. So it may be that a business Dell with its OS being managed by an IT department, for example, is just junk as compared to a Mac that I have at home, where I am responsible for its care and feeding. Likewise, someone who builds their own PC and uses better components, and maintains the software by themselves, can get their PC to last much longer than a Mac that hasn't been cared for as well.
The point is, a blanket statement like "PCs last longer than Macs" is a joke. It depends more on the hardware you start out with, and how wisely it's maintained. The platform has little to do with it.
Also, a PC that lasts a long time sounds like a nightmare. Like going to a restaurant with terrible food AND the portions are big. 🤮
In that experience, the PCs were enterprise and not personal. So it may be that a business Dell with its OS being managed by an IT department, for example, is just junk as compared to a Mac that I have at home, where I am responsible for its care and feeding. Likewise, someone who builds their own PC and uses better components, and maintains the software by themselves, can get their PC to last much longer than a Mac that hasn't been cared for as well.
The point is, a blanket statement like "PCs last longer than Macs" is a joke. It depends more on the hardware you start out with, and how wisely it's maintained. The platform has little to do with it.
Also, a PC that lasts a long time sounds like a nightmare. Like going to a restaurant with terrible food AND the portions are big. 🤮
In my experience, since the time I bought my first computer (a used PowerMac G4 Digital Audio in 2003 with a GeForce 3!) to now, for the most part, Macs will always hold up better in the long run, even the Intel Macs, and this goes for quality of hardware, resale value, etc. My G4 in particular was a beast of a machine and last me all the way until 2010 (I also used a PC I built for some tasks) and my 24' intel iMac was amazing, my first MBP not so much...but my M1 is 100% amazing. I feel like though, you are just doing a troll/ unpopular opinion post for attention.
Except the fragile screen on M2/M1 (not sure about M3) and the appalling lack of any spill protection make sure that a good part of that residual value is eaten up by AppleCare payments.
I used to have an Acer Spin 2. It was definitely not as nice as my M2 MBA - the screen was not as sharp or color-rich, the keyboard was just OK, the touchpad was a lot smaller. OTOH, the battery life was surprisingly good.
I abused it pretty hard - it was covered in dings and scratches, subjected to multiple coffee spills, I dropped it on its side while charging and broke the charger port (I could still charge it via USB-C), closed a lid on a pen and scratched the screen, yet it lasted five years and was still reasonably fast when I finally broke it. I'd replace it with another Windows laptop, but I couldn't find a higher end one (nicer screen, better keyboard, better trackpad, lighter and more portable) that had a proven decent real-world battery life. So I decided to go with a Mac.
I like a lot of things about it, and I dislike a lot of things about it. Whether this will be my first Mac or my only Mac will depend on its long term reliability and ruggedness.
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So what exactly is the point of starting this post, outside of just wanting to vent or start an argument? It doesn’t sound like there’s anything in OP’s work or personal use that requires Apple ecosystem, so there’s nothing stopping you from switching over to other platforms. This energy seems to be better used for making that transition.
I mean, as a long time PC user I can tell you that in terms of Apple hardware price or long term support this is probably the best it has ever been. I still remember when a typical PowerBook cost twice as much as a much nicer specced Windows laptop and support was non-existent. If you feel things are better on the Wintel and/or Android side now you should switch already. You will have plenty of hardware and OS to choose from.
I mean, as a long time PC user I can tell you that in terms of Apple hardware price or long term support this is probably the best it has ever been. I still remember when a typical PowerBook cost twice as much as a much nicer specced Windows laptop and support was non-existent. If you feel things are better on the Wintel and/or Android side now you should switch already. You will have plenty of hardware and OS to choose from.
I had planned on installing ChromeOS Flex on my final-gen Intel MacBook Air once it no longer receives MacOS security updates, but it seems like Google may be abandoning that project.
But Apple deletes the OpenLegacyCore posts from their Discussion boards when you try to mention that to the users that tell people to buy new Macs because their old Macs are out of date and vulnerable.