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People Who Complain About the New Mac Pro Misunderstand It

GermanyChris said:
I have??

I've asked what new it brought to the table that makes it a "must have" in many threads. If you cannot answer that then it's a waste of a couple k.

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What does the new MP bring to the table other than TB?
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I've been trying to get affordable SSD performance like this new Mac Pro offers in my 2009 Mac Pro and it just cannot be done without a super expensive RAID card with terribly long boot times. You can either have bootable SSD that's throttled on a x2 card, or you can get a x8 card that's not bootable or you can buy a RAID controller for several hundred dollars to run RAID0. Plus to top it off, there's something throttling the top two x4 slots to 1GB/s which further compounds the problem.

Adding dual high-end GPUs is also so difficult in the current machine it's not worth considering... you need a supplemental power supply for crying out loud! Now there's elegant internal expansion for you. LOL.

Not to mention adding a USB 3 card that can use the native drivers in 10.8... wait... WTF? You mean I have to run a power cable from the optical bay to power this thing? Unbelievable. Yep... great upgrade options here!

The PCIe card support for the current Mac has not endeared me to internal expansion. I welcome TB with open arms.

I'm stunned there are so many people fighting for this. Are you guys upgrading the same Mac Pro I have been?! Upgrading this machine is borderline madness.
 
cupcakes2000 said:
I answered your question what does the new MP bring to the table in relation to other MP's, which is I think what the majority will be looking for, if they already are tied up with OSX.
My post clearly states this. There is no point bringing up what other hardware manufactures do to beat apple in terms of specs. its been that way for a while. Its not really the point. You said, several times, "what does the new MP bring to the table apart from TB". In relation to other apple pro hardware, I answered it.
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Actually it doesn't...

It brings TB, none of us really care much about TB. Why couldn't TB be brought to the old chassis.

You assume that "we" own some other piece of apple tech with TB..

i.e. TB is the new tech that Apple brings to the table, not something of value.
 
beaker7 said:
don't you get it?

This one runs mari good.

Guy on stage at apple's request, giving apple approved presentation said so.
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What sort of conspiracy world do you live in!? The 'guy' wrote a world renowned piece of software and is an ambassador for a big name company in its own right!
 
cupcakes2000 said:
Thats the point though surely? Other hardware makers have been out speccing macs for years. But we still use macs.
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Sort of, but not to such an extent. 2006 through 2010 Mac Pro's were all within a reasonable performance range of competition.

This is the first one that will be less than half as fast in the CPU department as competition, on its day of release.

The two options are to price it as such, at say < 2500, and cede the high end users, or release a pro model.
 
VirtualRain said:
I've been trying to get affordable SSD performance like this new Mac Pro offers in my 2009 Mac Pro and it just cannot be done without a super expensive RAID card with terribly long boot times. You can either have bootable SSD that's throttled on a x2 card, or you can get a x8 card that's not bootable or you can buy a RAID controller for several hundred dollars to run RAID0.

Adding dual high-end GPUs is also so difficult in the current machine it's not worth considering... you need a supplemental power supply for crying out loud! Now there's elegant internal expansion for you. LOL.

The PCIe card support for the current Mac has not endeared me to internal expansion. I welcome TB with open arms.

I'm stunned there are so many people fighting for this. Are you guys upgrading the same Mac Pro I have been?!
Click to expand...

So terribly expensive is $150?? Why do you want "fast" boot times what does that do for you? I reboot semiannually if I can write to my fast drives I'm good..

Yea I know it's complex to add ODD PSU. I mean it's hard to make your breakfast I mean you need to cook oatmeal and cut fruit at the same time..

I welcomer TB to in addition to internal SATA.
 
GermanyChris said:
Actually it doesn't...

It brings TB, none of us really care much about TB. Why couldn't TB be brought to the old chassis.

You assume that "we" own some other piece of apple tech with TB..

i.e. TB is the new tech that Apple brings to the table, not something of value.
Click to expand...

Im just wondering why you always say "us" and "we"? You mean "the pros" don't you?

Haha.

Why do you presume so much?
 
cupcakes2000 said:
Im just wondering why you always say "us" and "we"? You mean "the pros" don't you?

Haha.

Why do you presume so much?
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I don't the person I quoted implied it...

I've always said I. Only we when there has been poll's...

I care not at all what "pros" think I care what I can do...
 
I can't justify even giving this MacPro a second look until they add a second CPU option.
 
GermanyChris said:
So terribly expensive is $150?? Why do you want "fast" boot times what does that do for you? I reboot semiannually if I can write to my fast drives I'm good..

Yea I know it's complex to add ODD PSU. I mean it's hard to make your breakfast I mean you need to cook oatmeal and cut fruit at the same time..

I welcomer TB to in addition to internal SATA.
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Well I'm glad you're happy with your upgrade experience. I've found it to be frustrating if not impossible to achieve what I would like in terms of SSD storage, GPUs, and USB 3. I'm sorry, but this new Mac Pro solves all my problems.
 
VirtualRain said:
Well I'm glad you're happy with your upgrade experience. I've found it to be frustrating if not impossible to achieve what I would like in terms of SSD storage, GPUs, and USB 3. I'm sorry, but this new Mac Pro solves all my problems.
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of course because you can't figure it out means all of us can't right?
 
Calm down gentlemen.

Apple have created a new and innovative workstation class object. The fact that it doesn't fit any previous workstation format does not make it any less a new workstation. Some folks will like it because Apple made it. Some folks will like it because it fits their ideal specification for a creative tool. Others will hate it for being not what they wanted.
We all have to make our own objective judgement and deal with a future product that may or not fit our needs.

Personally I have no need for twin FirePro cards, 24 virtual cores, or a plethora of Thunderbolt based peripherals. Others may find that is exactly what they are looking for. If so, lucky them.

My feeling is that Apple are trying to apply the same logic they have used to develop mobile tech which has won them market share and profit to match. Make proprietary unmodifiable equipment that existing PC components will not fit in. By welding RAM to the board in their laptops, removing user serviceable parts and generally controlling the whole hardware experience Apple can charge what they like and profit from every hardware sale completely.
This new Mac Pro fulfills this design metric, no cheap alternative RAM, storage or GPU options are available, the likes of Mac Vid Cards can't flash a PC card to fit into it and by doing so undercut Apple's extortionate mark up. I think it is entirely intentional that nothing which fits in an ATX case will fit in the world's most powerful ashtray. I also suspect no 3rd Party SSD or RAM will be available to replace the Apple kit you buy in the sealed unit you purchase at phenomenal expense.
Want to add a PCIe card, 3 external slots are $1000 right now, maybe Apple will make their own T/B box too, how much will they charge for that?
Apple have learned, from selling the previous Mac Pro design, that their customers are far too savvy to pay through the nose for internal upgrades when they can DIY with PC components for a fraction of the Apple price. They won't make that mistake again in a hurry. The argument is if you can't afford it you don't get it. Guess what, I don't want to afford it if they are going to take the piss with the price.
No wonder the modders and flashers are butt sore over this, I would be too.

So glad I Hackintoshed back in January, I don't want or need the new Mac Pro Mini. How many previous Mac Pro owners do?
 
gpzjock said:
This new Mac Pro fulfills this design metric, no cheap alternative RAM, storage or GPU options are available, the likes of Mac Vid Cards can't flash a PC card to fit into it and by doing so undercut Apple's extortionate mark up. I think it is entirely intentional that nothing which fits in an ATX case will fit in the world's most powerful ashtray. I also suspect no 3rd Party SSD or RAM will be available to replace the Apple kit you buy in the sealed unit you purchase at phenomenal expense.
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You dont really know ANY of that though. You haven't used one. Even looking at the pictures its obvious the ram isn't soldered in and is user replaceable. The entire cover lifts off easily. I would presume it's far more likely that the SSDs are replaceable. They certainly look it. And we don't know yet about the Fire pros.
 
beaker7 said:
don't you get it?

This one runs mari good.

Guy on stage at apple's request, giving apple approved presentation said so.
Click to expand...

subsonix said:
What else do we have to go by at this stage?

Do you have any tests you have performed on the new Mac Pro?
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Please look up "Critical Thought"

Apply some.

If Apple meant for their puppet show to have meant something, they very easily could have.

Instead they showed you a bar graph with one bar, and all you have to say is "Wow, look how long that bar is !!!OMG !!!"
 
MacVidCards said:
Please look up "Critical Thought"

Apply some.

If Apple meant for their puppet show to have meant something, they very easily could have.

Instead they showed you a bar graph with one bar, and all you have to say is "Wow, look how long that bar is !!!OMG !!!"
Click to expand...

Don't you think it's reasonable for you to do the same?

Apart from the WWDC keynote, they showed no bar. What they did was showing Mari in action on the new Mac Pro. That's more than what you or any one else have been showing of the new Mac Pro.
 
Radiating said:
The new Mac Pro is the first high end workstation that has ever been made that you can take with you in carryon luggage. That's a big deal. Everything is a trade off, Apple decided to trade form factor for the upgrade cost of the RAM at the extreme high end (128GB), they weren't being too cheap to add extra RAM slots, they needed the space to acheive other design goals.
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I'm sure all the pro's love to sacrifice performance for aesthetics, lol.

Gotta be a troll or my faith in the human race has just taken a hit.
 
derbothaus said:
This made sense to type out? We should be arguing plausibly. Sales pitches and ghost Mac's not withstanding.
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Well, let's just be quiet until it's released then. Because apart from information directly from Apple we have nothing.
 
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subsonix said:
Eh, I think it's fair to assume that he has been running Mari on comparable systems hardware wise to the current Mac Pro.
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By "out of the box," he's talking about an off the shelf plug and play system. No tweaking, optimizing, etc. Mari didn't even get AMD support until 6 months ago. Since the Mac Pro really isn't offering anything new on the hardware front, it seems obvious to me that the demo was more a feat of great software design.



cupcakes2000 said:
Thats the point though surely? Other hardware makers have been out speccing macs for years. But we still use macs.
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Of course, but the stakes have changed a bit with this release since it's a radically new design. I'd like to stay on OSX, but I'm not as tied to an OS anymore as all of my software now is multi platform. I'm not bothered about taking things outside of the box, though I'd still prefer a dual CPU option and some sort of internal storage expansion. And by restricting my options on GPU, it makes me rely on software developers to optimize for what I'm running rather than the other way around. I've seen so many say, "well the developers will just have to get on board."
 
handsome pete said:
By "out of the box," he's talking about an off the shelf plug and play system. No tweaking, optimizing, etc. Mari didn't even get AMD support until 6 months ago. Since the Mac Pro really isn't offering anything new on the hardware front, it seems obvious to me that the demo was more a feat of great software design.
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Well, that's one interpretation, but I think it's fair to say that it also was a show case of the new Mac Pro, this being the WWDC. The guy demoing it from Pixar seemed pretty stoked about it.
 
derbothaus said:
That is actually what I thought you were alluding to. Sounds like this is not the case?
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Your point was that we should be arguing plausibly, but at the same time not rely on any information directly from Apple?

There is no other information.


Perhaps I missed your point.
 
subsonix said:
Well, let's just be quiet until it's released then. Because apart from information directly from Apple we have nothing.
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Nothing but that...yawn.....GeekBench result that....yawn....was 3% better than my NEARLY top spec 2009 with 5680s in it.

Some 5690s came by and embarrassed us both.

And THAT test is actually the only REAL thing to look at.

I 100% agree with you that the Pixar "Feel Good" fest was not and should not be considered as proof of anything.


subsonix said:
Your point was that we should be arguing plausibly, but at the same time not rely on any information directly from Apple?
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Oh absolutely, let's believe everything Apple says. Can you pass the Kool Aid?
 
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