Performance degrading on sustained workload w/ external monitor? MBP 16"

[Rickdeck]

Hi guys. I have a new 16 MacBook Pro with 5500m 8gb. It arrived one month ago. I used it for avid media composer video editing with a 4K lg external monitor. While working on my timeline the MacBook was noisy but very responsive. Today I had to to a long dnxhd to h264 conversion and noticed that the performance were Way worst than my 2011 iMac. On handbrake I used to get 50/60 FPS with the imac, now with an external monitor I got 20 fps. I called the support and they said that is a problem specific to lg monitors. I don’t believe them at all. Now I found this topic and I’m really worried. I spent a fortune on this machine and I use it to get jobs done. Apple said that the return time period is expired (15 days).
I don’t know what to do, can someone give me some advice? I think that the only thing to do is shout the hell out until they give my money back. On the Apple page they claim that this machine works with 4 4K monitors. It’s just a bunch of ********.

 

[Rickdeck]

Last thing , I would be ok with the idea to have a noisy but responsive and fast MacBook. But in my case on the external monitor the performance are 50% worse. It’s unacceptable. This issues is worth Some serious action.

 

[arche3]

Hi guys. I have a new 16 MacBook Pro with 5500m 8gb. It arrived one month ago. I used it for avid media composer video editing with a 4K lg external monitor. While working on my timeline the MacBook was noisy but very responsive. Today I had to to a long dnxhd to h264 conversion and noticed that the performance were Way worst than my 2011 iMac. On handbrake I used to get 50/60 FPS with the imac, now with an external monitor I got 20 fps. I called the support and they said that is a problem specific to lg monitors. I don’t believe them at all. Now I found this topic and I’m really worried. I spent a fortune on this machine and I use it to get jobs done. Apple said that the return time period is expired (15 days).
I don’t know what to do, can someone give me some advice? I think that the only thing to do is shout the hell out until they give my money back. On the Apple page they claim that this machine works with 4 4K monitors. It’s just a bunch of ********.

You should be able to get them to let you return it. Ask nicely but firm. Let them know the issue. And how critical it is for you. Tell them due to covid19 and all that work at home stuff the issues are more dire than normal. Ask for an exception to the normal return period.

 

[cynics]

Hi guys. I have a new 16 MacBook Pro with 5500m 8gb. It arrived one month ago. I used it for avid media composer video editing with a 4K lg external monitor. While working on my timeline the MacBook was noisy but very responsive. Today I had to to a long dnxhd to h264 conversion and noticed that the performance were Way worst than my 2011 iMac. On handbrake I used to get 50/60 FPS with the imac, now with an external monitor I got 20 fps. I called the support and they said that is a problem specific to lg monitors. I don’t believe them at all. Now I found this topic and I’m really worried. I spent a fortune on this machine and I use it to get jobs done. Apple said that the return time period is expired (15 days).
I don’t know what to do, can someone give me some advice? I think that the only thing to do is shout the hell out until they give my money back. On the Apple page they claim that this machine works with 4 4K monitors. It’s just a bunch of ********.

Try to return it. I don't think your expectations will ever be met. You are describing a video editing workstations intended function for a laptop. The fact it was capable of doing the job at all should be impressive to a certain extent.

Handbrake will scale fairly evenly across 6 cores and push them past 100% base clock trying to achieve max turbo if the power and thermal budgets allow it. So on top of the 100+% CPU load from the glorified stress test video encoder handbrake you need to prioritize that 10Gbps bandwidth processing requirements (higher if 10bit) of the 4k monitor in real time since its video. Plus you were noticing slow downs so I assume you were doing something else as well? Bit coin mining? Deep learning equations? Lol jk

If the CPU is running well and maxed out its using ~60watt. The MBP display 10-20 watts depending on brightness. On top of the CPU usage Handbrake is an IO and memory monster so 10-15 watts there too. We are already at 80 - 95 watts and there are still other things using plenty of power like the GPU, network devices like BT, Wifi, etc etc. Now consider the power supply is 97 watts.

If your workload constantly consists of 4k video editing while transcoding with Handbrake specifically, you really need to consider a desktop with desktop/workstation grade parts. Even then Handbrake will be hammering that CPU and any distraction by processing other task will take away from Handbrake and lower your FPS.

Good luck in whatever you.

 

[Yurk]

Try clamshell mode, and use a displayport cable (avoid HDMI). Use iStat, and check the power consumption on the GPU (Radeon High Side). With clamshell mode and a displayport cable, GPU power consumption should be 5 Watts and CPU performance should be better. With open lid or HDMI cable, GPU power consumption jumps to 20 Watts and there is less thermal / power headroom for the CPU, reducing performance. This is a defective product, and these are the only workarounds. The only other solutions are to use an external GPU, or a USB DisplayLink -> HDMI adapter, or upgrade to the macbook with 5600M GPU which is not defective.

 

[Young Su McCann]

I just got my MBP (16" i7 model) and without external monitors, my MBP runs at 93 F and with 2 external monitors, it runs at 140 F (at idle). I would say that this is a problem. My other PC (Huawei) didn't do this. I am not too worried but concerned that this will shorten the life of MBP. Maybe I should just use this without eternal monitors.

 

[ght56]

I just got my MBP (16" i7 model) and without external monitors, my MBP runs at 93 F and with 2 external monitors, it runs at 140 F (at idle). I would say that this is a problem. My other PC (Huawei) didn't do this. I am not too worried but concerned that this will shorten the life of MBP. Maybe I should just use this without eternal monitors.

Are you using two monitors with the computer display open? If so, using it in clamshell mode will likely bring the idle temp down quite a bit.

 

[Young Su McCann]

Are you using two monitors with the computer display open? If so, using it in clamshell mode will likely bring the idle temp down quite a bit.

Yes I am. I shall try it, but i like having 3 monitors. I would have just gotten a desktop if that was the setup i was looking for.

 

[ght56]

Yes I am. I shall try it, but i like having 3 monitors. I would have just gotten a desktop if that was the setup i was looking for.

I understand that completely...3 is a lot nicer than 2 and I am doing the same setup (2 external + MBP), although mine are QHD so it is a lot fewer pixels than you are pushing. Tomorrow or the day after I am going to try clamshell + 3 externals to see what happens.

 

[Young Su McCann]

I understand that completely...3 is a lot nicer than 2 and I am doing the same setup (2 external + MBP), although mine are QHD so it is a lot fewer pixels than you are pushing. Tomorrow or the day after I am going to try clamshell + 3 externals to see what happens.

I have one that is HD and the other one QHD (none are 4k) so I don't understand why my MBP runs hot.

 

[Young Su McCann]

I have one that is HD and the other one QHD (none are 4k) so I don't understand why my MBP runs hot.

I have laptop fan under the MBP and I turned it off to do a short test. Without the fan, MBP runs at 160-170 F with 2 external monitors, runs at 140-145 with 2 monitors with MBP clamshell, runs at 110. I am wondering if this MBP runs at 160-170 continuously, it might shorten the life of MBP.

 

[Skylar Richardson]

Has this issue been resolved? Struggling here

 

[ght56]

Has this issue been resolved? Struggling here

Unfortunately, the current limited options appear to be:

1. Continue onward hoping Apple will produce an update to mitigate the issue (individuals who have spoken to Apple report the 5300M/5500M behavior is considered "normal", and this is not encouraging)
2. Try to use only a single external display in clamshell mode and play around with the refresh rate to attempt to reduce GPU power draw (mixed results, means you still only have one display)
3. Try using a USB DisplayLink adapter (mixed results, more CPU load)
4. Use an eGPU (expensive, complex)
5. Get a 16-inch MacBook Pro with the 5600M GPU or switch to another Mac or another brand computer entirely

I have laptop fan under the MBP and I turned it off to do a short test. Without the fan, MBP runs at 160-170 F with 2 external monitors, runs at 140-145 with 2 monitors with MBP clamshell, runs at 110. I am wondering if this MBP runs at 160-170 continuously, it might shorten the life of MBP.

I understand and shared your concern, and this left me very uneasy. I could deal with the fan noise, and I suppose I could have eventually come to accept the performance loss (even though it was frustrating given it loses way more performance than older MacBook Pro models), but the question as to how such high temperatures may impact the service life is one that left me uneasy and unable to get over.

 

[Shuhao Shang]

I'm getting performance issues on the new MBP 16" (i9 2.3 GHz, 5500M 4GB) when connecting to an external monitor. As I increase the workload (CPU only heavy tasks), the laptop gets slower and slower, to the point that it throttles to as low as 1.9 GHz. The thermals remain constant at around 75 - 80 degrees celsius, and the fans are at full blast. Meanwhile, when the external display isn't connected, I maintain about 2.8 Ghz, with the thermals being slightly warmer, but never above 90 degrees. I understand that there should be some performance degradation due to powering the monitor, but it can't be this bad right?

I uploaded two screenshots of intel power gadget which shows the beginning of the workload. The first one is connected to an external monitor, and the second one isn't.

Just wondering if this is normal, or if there's anything that can be done about it.

Thanks!

1.9 is not bad, mine is much worse, I've seen 1.0GHz and 0.8 GHz. My mbp 16 is neither i9 nor 5500M. It's an i7 with a 5300M basic model.

 

[tijs08]

Hi folks, just wanted to share with you how I fixed this issue for my setup.

I have mbp 16 2019 + 2 LG4k monitors connected directly to the macbook via thunderbolt.

I've tried to clean up vents. As simple as that. And it worked. I'm writing it on my external monitor and fans are barely noticeable, staying around 2.5-3k rpm. Before that I had fans blowing at max speed even if there is one external monitor connected and lid is open.

When I've opened mbp bottom enclosure there was not much dust, but the main issue was inside vents body where it is not visible. I've used air to blow out all that things and it helped.

 

[raulaguilav]

Hi folks, just wanted to share with you how I fixed this issue for my setup.

I have mbp 16 2019 + 2 LG4k monitors connected directly to the macbook via thunderbolt.

I've tried to clean up vents. As simple as that. And it worked. I'm writing it on my external monitor and fans are barely noticeable, staying around 2.5-3k rpm. Before that I had fans blowing at max speed even if there is one external monitor connected and lid is open.

When I've opened mbp bottom enclosure there was not much dust, but the main issue was inside vents body where it is not visible. I've used air to blow out all that things and it helped.

@tijs08, what kind of resolution do you have on the two monitors? I have the same mbp with 32gb ram and the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8GB. I just have two 27 benq PD2700U and the fans started to feel like a jet... this computer is one year old.

 

[tijs08]

@tijs08, what kind of resolution do you have on the two monitors? I have the same mbp with 32gb ram and the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8GB. I just have two 27 benq PD2700U and the fans started to feel like a jet... this computer is one year old.

I'm using both external monitors at 4608 x 2592. My mbp is also 1 year old. To be clear: there is still an issue with 5500 which I have too, it's using about 20W of power with 2 external monitors and open lid and 4 times less with closed lid. But when I've cleaned up vents, overall thermal performance become much better.

 

[tfmf]

I have been having this issue for so long....

something that helped me: https://apple.stackexchange.com/que...pletely-when-connected-to-an-external-monitor

 

[baypharm]

Plugging the power cable to the right-hand side of the MacBook and the monitors to the left-hand side, solved the issue for me immediately.

 

[Kogut]

Plugging the power cable to the right-hand side of the MacBook and the monitors to the left-hand side, solved the issue for me immediately.

Could you show Radeon watt usage with the lid open and closed?

 

[electronino]

Unfortunately, the current limited options appear to be:

1. Continue onward hoping Apple will produce an update to mitigate the issue (individuals who have spoken to Apple report the 5300M/5500M behavior is considered "normal", and this is not encouraging)
2. Try to use only a single external display in clamshell mode and play around with the refresh rate to attempt to reduce GPU power draw (mixed results, means you still only have one display)
3. Try using a USB DisplayLink adapter (mixed results, more CPU load)
4. Use an eGPU (expensive, complex)
5. Get a 16-inch MacBook Pro with the 5600M GPU or switch to another Mac or another brand computer entirely

I understand and shared your concern, and this left me very uneasy. I could deal with the fan noise, and I suppose I could have eventually come to accept the performance loss (even though it was frustrating given it loses way more performance than older MacBook Pro models), but the question as to how such high temperatures may impact the service life is one that left me uneasy and unable to get over.

Great summary! We can't just sit and hope Apple updates the driver. We have to make our voices heard. Call the support (phone, not chat) and demand an official escalation to the engineering team. They will play dumb.

Install iStat to monitor GPU power usage jump from 5W to 20W. Book an appointment at your local Apple Store and plug your laptop in whichever "Apple approved" monitor they have. Leave your laptop for 10 mins. If the fans start blowing at full speed, demand a FREE upgrade to 5600 model. Enough is enough!

It almost feel like mocking watching Apple presentations where they are making better and faster than ever products, caring for the Earth and bringing harmony and unity feeling yet they do not give an f about their existing customers.

My gut feeling is telling me that there is nothing wrong with the hardware. It's just a driver update.

 

[Yurk]

Good news: it looks like Apple quietly fixed the issue in MacOS Monterey. All you have to do is enable Low Power Mode, and ensure that both the internal and external monitor are at 60Hz, and the GPU power draw will drop down to 5 Watts. In High Power Mode, or if the monitor frequencies do not match, power draw will increase again.

I have also found that in MacOS Big Sur temperatures are lower if I plug in the power cable to the right side of the 16" Macbook, and the monitor and peripherals to the left side. The kernel task process consumes a lot less CPU that way. And it even works with an HDMI adapter, not just displayport. But only in clamshell mode. If you open the lid, Radeon High Side again jumps up to 20 Watts. Upgrading to MacOS Monterrey allows you to keep the lid open and stay at 5 Watts, at low power mode.

It's crazy that it took them 2 years to address the issue, and they have not even acknowledged it, previously calling it 'normal behavior' whenever someone brings in their overheating mac for service. But better late than never. I was planning to sell my 16" mac, but now I will keep it, as the Intel CPU support bootcamp, eGPU, and has much better linear algebra performance than the new ARM macs.

Also, there is still no fix in Bootcamp. There is no option for low powered mode there, and the GPU still overheats if you plug in an external monitor, especially if you want to play a game, whence the power draw will make your Macbook exceed 100 Watt and it will discharge even if plugged in. The Radeon 5600m GPU avoids this issue, but the 5300m and 5500m still have defective drivers / firmware.

 

[dahnny012]

I can confirm @Yurk comment. After updating to the latest Mac OS and using low power mode I no longer face thermal throttling when connected to an external monitor. Total system draw is at 20W and the Radeon GPU is idling at 8-9W

 

[06tb06]

I can confirm @Yurk comment. After updating to the latest Mac OS and using low power mode I no longer face thermal throttling when connected to an external monitor. Total system draw is at 20W and the Radeon GPU is idling at 8-9W

Are there any indications this fix will appear in a future Big Sur supplemental release?

 

[jonnyapps]

I am plagued by poor performance whenever I run a connected 4k monitor. My fans are quiet, the chassis isn't boiling to the touch and I open a firefox google maps tab and panning around on google maps is a slideshow.
If I then move the window over to the MBP screen and pan it's smooth.
If I reduce the resolution of the 4k monitor to 1080p it's also smooth on there.

Can this 16inch 2019 Macbook Pro (with an i9) not handle panning around on google maps??