picture of your car

[dpaanlka]

Could it be that only the Americans would fall for a company changing the badges on a car to bump up its value?

You're right. Sadly, that is the reason.

If YOU don't like any particular car fine, move on but you've said stuff in this thread which is just bollocks and you can't claim to be an authority in the field so why not just let people who like Hyundais etc. drive them without bitching about it?

I'm letting my opinion be known. How can you tell what my attitude is, this is just text! This person just told me BMWs and Saabs and every other expensive make is stupid because Honda has the S2000. I feel obligated to respond fully to that. If you don't like this thread why do you keep responding to it? It cant be for pics, nobody posted their pics in a long time.

 

[japasneezemonk]

Aren't Saabs FWD? FWD and high performance do not go together. I'd take a Honda S2000 over a Saab any day. That is more of a driving enthusiast's car than a saab or half of the BMW lineup.

Hahaha S2000 I am laughing as I type. S2000 are made for aging males trying to get a date with a 15 year old. You might wanna get your hands on a R32! or an R36 in 2007. Honda's have minimal amounts of torque, now remember this, horsepower sell's cars, and torque wins races. I would like for you to explain to me why FWD cars and performance dont go together??? Have you ever driven in a road course in a FWD car???? You get much better handling in a FWD vehicle than with an RWD.

by the way, torque steer and wheel hop can be eliminated with an LSD and a good set of tires.

 

[japasneezemonk]

I'd take a Honda S2000 over a Saab any day. That is more of a driving enthusiast's car than a saab or half of the BMW lineup.

A honda S2000 is a driving enthusiast car????? For who? The Financially challenged. I would buy a BMW M coupe over that piece of plastic on wheels any day.

Now this is a car with Big Huevos.

 

[andym172]

A honda S2000 is a driving enthusiast car????? For who? The Financially challenged. I would buy a BMW M coupe over that piece of plastic on wheels any day.

Now this is a car with Big Huevos.

The Honda S2K is definitely a drivers car. It may be less so than some cars, and more so than others, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is a drivers car

I like the Z4 Coupe, but some of those lines are very very untidy IMO. Notably the crease by the side badge, and on the doors.

 

[dpaanlka]

Now this is a car with Big Huevos.

That is an extremely awesome BMW. I can't believe anybody would pick an S2000 over that. Or this car... hopefully something similar in apperance will roll out for Saab in the near future (even though GM already said theres no way the crazy canopy will make it).

 

[dpaanlka]

by the way, torque steer and wheel hop can be eliminated with an LSD and a good set of tires.

Thankfully found in all Saabs and most other expensive FWD performance cars.

 

[mpw]

...I'm letting my opinion be known. How can you tell what my attitude is, this is just text! This person just told me BMWs and Saabs and every other expensive make is stupid because Honda has the S2000. I feel obligated to respond fully to that. If you don't like this thread why do you keep responding to it? It cant be for pics, nobody posted their pics in a long time.

Maybe you didn't read his post as I did where he stated that he'd choose a Honda S2000 over a Saab, and where he also said that in a straight fight between a Honda Sport Saloon and a BMW M3 he'd go with the BMW, but still choose the S2000 over the Z4.

You then came back slating the Honda range en masse and making out like he was a fan-boy for them, which is clearly not the case from what I've read here.

That someone might choose the a M3 at around twice the price of the Honda isn't really a surprise and doesn't say a lot if BMW's offerings are being considered next to cars half their cost. Likewise he says he'd choose the S2000 over the cheaper Z4 again no great shocker.

He goes as far as to state he doesn't see why people get hung up on the badge that a car is wearing and proves his point while you bash Honda full stop.

...That is an extremely awesome BMW. I can't believe anybody would pick an S2000 over that...

Why not? Maybe they want a car they can drive today, the Z4 shown is a concept car the production version of which is not yet available, there are plenty of concepts and cars that exist only in my head that I'd choose before any Honda/Saab/BMW but is that really relevant?

Why do I post? Just trying to help, you don't appear to be getting what others are talking about and some of my post were just to clarify facts.

I don't like seeing people judge car (or computers) by the badge they wear, unless it's a Peugeot, 'cause they're all ****.

 

[quagmire]

That is an extremely awesome BMW. I can't believe anybody would pick an S2000 over that. Or this car... hopefully something similar in apperance will roll out for Saab in the near future (even though GM already said theres no way the crazy canopy will make it).

What I heard is that the Aero-X will make it to production on the RWD Kappa Platform. Of course it will have the typical doors and windshield and not that cool canopy. Of course things can still change and GM can cancel it, but so far it has the green light from what I heard. And I hate those people on the mind set of, " :insert brand here: can do no wrong and every vehicle they make rocks and it is perfect!" But, I don't think the person you're accusing of having it, doesn't have it. I have seen much worse on the GM forum I go to. Those people are Pro-GM, Pro-Ford, or Pro-Import.

 

[dpaanlka]

Well, in conclusion, if you think a Honda S2000 is a "great deal" then you should think the Saturn SKY Redline and Pontiac Solstice GXP are even better deals since they cost less, look better, and are way more powerful.

If that person had said "I would chose the SKY Redline" over the Z4 then I could understand, because the SKY Redline (unlike the S2000) is actually in the same power class as the Z4, and costs even less than the S2000. Theh S2000 is far overpriced and far underpowered for anyone to consider that a real value, whether or not you compare it to a BMW Z4 or a SKY Redline.

He also says he would *choose* the S2000 as if he actually was also considering the BMW Z4 M.

And it's true, I hate all things Honda. Mostly because Honda drivers (and fans) don't make any sense. For every Honda that exists, there is a better option elsewhere. I want everyone to know this before they buy Hondas based on biased magazine reviews or what a bunch of teenagers tell them. I don't know how it is elsewehre in the world, but in the United States this is a huge problem in my opinion. People buy Hondas all the time and act like they're somethinge else, whether it be that horrid minivan-based Ridgeline pickup truck, an S2000 BMW wannabe, or any of the overpriced Acuras that only exist in the United States because of how unintelligent many of my fellow Americans seem to be.

 

[radiantm3]

Hahaha S2000 I am laughing as I type. S2000 are made for aging males trying to get a date with a 15 year old. You might wanna get your hands on a R32! or an R36 in 2007. Honda's have minimal amounts of torque, now remember this, horsepower sell's cars, and torque wins races.

Actually, I was just trying to make a point using honda as an example since people keep bashing honda and praising any german built car. I'm not a honda fanboy. I have never even owned one before. I used the S2000 because it is a roadster and the Z4 is a roadster as well. The R32 is a very heavy AWD sedan. Sure performs well, but I think it's safe to say that you'd have more fun taking an s2000 around a track than the skyline.

The s2000 has been reviewed and compared to the nsx countless times by professional drivers.

Again, nowhere did I state that I thought it was the best car money can buy. I was just trying to make a point.

I would like for you to explain to me why FWD cars and performance dont go together??? Have you ever driven in a road course in a FWD car???? You get much better handling in a FWD vehicle than with an RWD.

by the way, torque steer and wheel hop can be eliminated with an LSD and a good set of tires.

Now you really proved that you don't know what you are talking about. Better handling on a FWD than RWD? Heard about understeer lately? I know there are some really great handling FWD cars, but they are in no way better than a properly balanced RWD car. Just for the record, I recently owned a pretty well modded 2000 celica gts 6speed which was a very lightweight and great handling fwd car. I had a race clutch, aluminum flywheel and torsen type LSD as well (among other things). To say it would out-handle a balanced RWD car is ridiculous. Steering and driving from the same 2 wheels = handicap.

 

[radiantm3]

He also says he would *choose* the S2000 as if he actually was also considering the BMW Z4 M.

Funny, nowhere in my post did I say Z4 M. I don't even believe they are available in the US yet.

 

[radiantm3]

I'm letting my opinion be known. How can you tell what my attitude is, this is just text! This person just told me BMWs and Saabs and every other expensive make is stupid because Honda has the S2000. I feel obligated to respond fully to that. If you don't like this thread why do you keep responding to it? It cant be for pics, nobody posted their pics in a long time.

How old are you? You have completely and utterly misunderstood my post. Please re-read it a few times again and come up with a better conclusion. I could have sworn the only thing I actually said was that the S2000 was a better driver's car than the Z4. Nowhere did I state that one make was better than another. That's what you were doing.

 

[dpaanlka]

How old are you? You have completely and utterly misunderstood my post.

Well, if that was you're intention, then forgive me, for I really despise Honda and tend to react that way when anybody mentions Honda as beingn *better* than anybody else.

the S2000 was a better driver's car than the Z4

I still take issue with this, however. Honda is not a sports car company. The S2000 cannot be compared to BMW. Especially the S2000. I hate this car, mostly because of how overpriced and underpowered it is, and yet I still see them driving all over the place; people clearly aren't doing their research, but rather impulse-buying based soley on obviously biased reviews and testaments.

A good friend of mine has an S2000, replacing his *souped up* Acura Integra. I am not unfamiliar with these cars, and am not simply attacking them based on what I read. As a current Saab owner, and former BMW, Camaro, and Saturn owner, I really find these cars to be the worst value in the history of sports cars. I fear I may physically attack the next person that trys and tells me to my face what an "awesome car" the S2000 is, especially those that have never even driven one.

EDIT: Same goes for the NSX. Overpriced and underpowered.

 

[edesignuk]

S2000 is 240BHP. Oh yeah, waaaaay under powered.

The car was built to celebrate Hondas 50th birthday, they had their F1 engineers design the 2ltr VTEC engine.

Honda were a massive success in F1, Williams best years were Honda powered. Don't tell me Honda don't know what they're doing.

Jeremy Clarkson would take the S2000 over a Z4 or a Boxster.

PS. I'm selling my Mini Cooper and buying an S2000 as we speak.

 

[andym172]

EDIT: Same goes for the NSX. Overpriced and underpowered.

But possibly one of the best handling cars ever made. Better than any recent-time road going Ferrari for example (barring the 'F's').

It sounds to me that you dislike the culture surrounding the S2000 rather than the car itself. The car is an excellent little car, not one I'd choose myself, but one I appreciate all the same...

 

[dpaanlka]

S2000 is 240BHP. Oh yeah, waaaaay under powered.

Sigh... horsepower is only half the story in the car world. Look at the torque rating for the S2000. Horsepower is great, but it's torque that accelerates a car. Buying a car based soley on horsepower is like buying a computer based soley on megahertz. Similarly horsepower is hyped up in the car industry, just as mhz is in the computer industry.

I'll use my favorite examples to illustrate:

2006 Honda S2000
Price: ~$32,000
Horsepower: 237
Ft/lb Torque: 162 !!!!

2007 Saturn SKY Redline
Price: ~$26,000
Horsepower: 260
Ft/lb Torque: 260

Both cars are roughly the same size and weight. Unfortunately for edesignuk, Saturns are not available in that country. However, the very similar Pontiac Solstice GXP may be (I'm not sure if Pontiac exists in the UK). Moral of the story is, shop around, and get all the facts about a car.

EDIT: I believe that Saturn is going to be sold as an Opel or Vauxhall in Europe.

 

[andym172]

Moral of the story is, shop around, and get all the facts about a car.

How about a taste of your own medicine? What about the handling of the car? Power isn't everything...

 

[dpaanlka]

How about a taste of your own medicine? What about the handling of the car? Power isn't everything...

The handling is comparable to the S2000. The "Redline" is Saturn's performance marque, and gets much refinement and tuning by GM, including an entirely replaced and stiffer suspension system, stiffened body, larger and wider rims with better gripping tires and much testing at Nürenburg. This car is a beast and will surely hand the S2000's ass to itself, whether in a drag race or on a twisting mountain road. All for roughly $6k less.

 

[dpaanlka]

I almost forgot to mention the most fun part about the Saturn SKY Redline: no unsuspecting S2000 owner is going to expect that from a Saturn, mostly due to the over-hyping of Honda.

 

[andym172]

The handling is comparable to the S2000. The "Redline" is Saturn's performance marque, and gets much refinement and tuning by GM, including an entirely replaced and stiffer suspension system, stiffened body, larger and wider rims with better gripping tires and much testing at Nürenburg. This car is a beast and will surely hand the S2000's ass to itself, whether in a drag race or on a twisting mountain road. All for roughly $6k less.

I don't wish to be rude, but American car makers wouldn't know a good handling car if it hit them in the face. Stiffer suspension and wider rims do not necessarily make a good handling car. Also, having a cars set up based largely on having driven it at he Nurburgring is a dangerous game to play as the 'ring does not accurately simulate most peoples road driving.

Unless the "Redline" is very light weight (I'm talking Elise weight), then I can't see it handing the S2K's ass to itself as you so eloquently put it

As it stands, according to the press over here (I've not driven the Z4 so can't comment), the S2K is a better handling car than the Z4 but not the Boxster.
The engine is said to be a peach, despite its lack of torque. I myself prefer an engine with 'lazy power' (lots of torque) rather than rowing the car down the road (constantly having to change gear due to a narrow power band). I found the S2K to be ok in the respect, and a lot better than the Honda Civic Type R.

Horses for courses...

 

[climhazzard85]

Am I the only one who sees an issue with compairing a SATURN (or Pontiac for that matter) with a Honda? One is known for great reliability, the other makes cheap cars that are literally made out of plastic. I of course assume you Honda haters have driven the S2000 before making such comments about it, otherwise your opinions are invalid.


Additionally, I'm not saying the Sky Redline can't outperform the S2K, but Honda has proven reliability and resale value. This is like compairing a Neon SRT-4 to a WRX, sure the SRT-4 is "faster" and cheaper, but it's a damn Dodge Neon.

 

[quagmire]

EDIT: I believe that Saturn is going to be sold as an Opel or Vauxhall in Europe.

Saturn will pretty much= Opel in the U.S. The Aura is a rebadged Vectra, rumors are the Opel Astra will come over to the U.S to replace the Ion, etc. The Opel GT is Europes Kappa roadster.

 

[quagmire]

Am I the only one who sees an issue with compairing a SATURN (or Pontiac for that matter) with a Honda? One is known for great reliability, the other makes cheap cars that are literally made out of plastic. I of course assume you Honda haters have driven the S2000 before making such comments about it, otherwise your opinions are invalid.


Additionally, I'm not saying the Sky Redline can't outperform the S2K, but Honda has proven reliability and resale value. This is like compairing a Neon SRT-4 to a WRX, sure the SRT-4 is "faster" and cheaper, but it's a damn Dodge Neon.

You know in the 60-mid 80's Honda and Toyota had their quality problems? It was just in the mid 80's where they improved their quality. They couldn't have improved it at a better time, because Ford and GM were having their issues. Right now the Koreans are getting over their quality issues. I have had 2 Chevy Suburbans. A '96 and an '02. The '96 was at 81K miles when we traded it in for the '02. It was not because the '96 was breaking down POS. In matter of fact we had no problems with the '96. Not one. We traded it in to take advantage of the incentives that were going on during the Post-9/11 time period where people were afraid to travel. So far at 52K miles, the '02 Suburban has been quite reliable. No problems either so far. I also have a '06 Chevy Equinox. So far only one problem with a bearing that was fixed easily under warranty. Now, I have ridden in an Acura. My aunt and uncle has an Acura. Engine is smooth, extra and I am sure they get good fuel economy and have not had any major problems with it.

GM is turning around Pontiac with the G6, the future G8( RWD replacement for the Grand Prix), and Solstice. As stated above, Saturn will be rebadged Opel's sold in the U.S. So GM is turning around Saturn. I have confidence that they will since they turned around Cadillac. You won't give GM a chance to prove themselves. You won't go see that their quality and reliability have improved vastily. Why? Because just like any other American, they follow the brands. Honda as a brand has the reputation of Quality. So people flock there. Same with Toyota. Even though now, Toyota is having its problems now. A 100% increase of recalls seen in '05. The new 6 speed in the Camry being recalled already for the transmission not shifting into 2nd and 6th gear. Hell, people are falling for the Hybrid hype, even though you only really see a 5-10 MPG improvement over a gasoline only model if you drive the same way you do before you bought the Prius or any other hybrid.

Why Honda is profiting? Because they have only have like 4 platforms. Unlike the dozens Toyota, Ford, GM, and Chrysler has. Unlike Toyota, GM, Ford, and Chrysler where they make platforms for their intended purpose( like BOF for the trucks), Honda uses their unibody platform that underpins the Odyssey on the Ridgeline. Then goes and advertises it as a "Real" truck. A) It has no V8. B) It is unibody. Right, now good trucks that are dependable are Body on Frame. C) It can't do any real off roading. Its struts broke off when tried to see how it stacks up against the Silverado, Tundra, and F-150 off road. I kind of like the Ridgeline. Why? It takes all those Yuppies away who just want a truck to show to others that he is tough and has no intention of using the trucks to its full potiental.

 

[climhazzard85]

You know in the 60-mid 80's Honda and Toyota had their quality problems? It was just in the mid 80's where they improved their quality. They couldn't have improved it at a better time, because Ford and GM were having their issues. Right now the Koreans are getting over their quality issues. I have had 2 Chevy Suburbans. A '96 and an '02. The '96 was at 81K miles when we traded it in for the '02. It was not because the '96 was breaking down POS. In matter of fact we had no problems with the '96. Not one. We traded it in to take advantage of the incentives that were going on during the Post-9/11 time period where people were afraid to travel. So far at 52K miles, the '02 Suburban has been quite reliable. No problems either so far. I also have a '06 Chevy Equinox. So far only one problem with a bearing that was fixed easily under warranty. Now, I have ridden in an Acura. My aunt and uncle has an Acura. Engine is smooth, extra and I am sure they get good fuel economy and have not had any major problems with it.

Maybe we have different defintions of long term reliability, but 50-80k is nothing, I have seen numerous Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans with well over 200, sometimes 300. As for the Korean cars, that is laughable, have you even driven one?

GM is turning around Pontiac with the G6, the future G8( RWD replacement for the Grand Prix), and Solstice. As stated above, Saturn will be rebadged Opel's sold in the U.S. So GM is turning around Saturn. I have confidence that they will since they turned around Cadillac. You won't give GM a chance to prove themselves. You won't go see that their quality and reliability have improved vastily. Why? Because just like any other American, they follow the brands. Honda as a brand has the reputation of Quality. So people flock there. Same with Toyota. Even though now, Toyota is having its problems now. A 100% increase of recalls seen in '05. The new 6 speed in the Camry being recalled already for the transmission not shifting into 2nd and 6th gear. Hell, people are falling for the Hybrid hype, even though you only really see a 5-10 MPG improvement over a gasoline only model if you drive the same way you do before you bought the Prius or any other hybrid.

Have you even driven the G6 yet??? It STILL has the same crappy GM feel, a slightly better interior, but really it is no different. Who is to say I won't give GM a chance? Their quality has NOT improved vastly, nor is it anywhere near Honda, Toyota, or Nissan.

I do agree, hybrids are extremely overhyped and a complete waste of money at this point, you pay way more for the stupid car to get barely better gas mileage.

Why Honda is profiting? Because they have only have like 4 platforms. Unlike the dozens Toyota, Ford, GM, and Chrysler has. Unlike Toyota, GM, Ford, and Chrysler where they make platforms for their intended purpose( like BOF for the trucks), Honda uses their unibody platform that underpins the Odyssey on the Ridgeline. Then goes and advertises it as a "Real" truck. A) It has no V8. B) It is unibody. Right, now good trucks that are dependable are Body on Frame. C) It can't do any real off roading. Its struts broke off when tried to see how it stacks up against the Silverado, Tundra, and F-150 off road. I kind of like the Ridgeline. Why? It takes all those Yuppies away who just want a truck to show to others that he is tough and has no intention of using the trucks to its full potiental.

This is getting off the previous topic, but I hate the Ridgeline also, buy a Titan.

 

[andypress]

Those Honda interiors look pretty good to me.

One of the coolest cars ever was the 1950 Buick Lesabre concept car. I wish this had been a production vehicle.

As for refinement in interiors, I think it is a matter of personal taste and preference. Everyone has a different idea of what they want on their dashboard and where it should be located. I personally do not like the new style of "cocoon" style dashes (like the second picture in the pro-Honda post just above) where each person in the front has their own little secluded space. I like a more open feel. The dash of my 92 Lesabre is a huge reason why I love my car. I first drove a 92 Lesabre back in 93 when I needed a rental car. I was at first kind of shocked at how different the dash looked and felt. It was offputting. It seemed almost TOO open and roomy near the dash. By the end of my rental I was in love with the car and wanted one from that time onward. The dash of a 92 Lesabre feels very flat and unobtrusive. It is a throwback to the dash designs of cars of the 40s-60s. Frankly they have ruined the dash with the more recent Lesabres, as well as the Lucernes and Lacrosses. The dashboards are not nearly as good to me. Granted, the speedometer is not very pretty and there is no tach or rpm gauge, but that is not my point. The overall shape is what I refer to.

There is certainly a cool factor in a snug dash (like the Saab interior above) and an ergonomic factor, but it is not for me.

Sorry to tell you, but this is probably the most unergonomic and ulgy dash that has ever existed(and look at those seats!):