picture of your car

[dpaanlka]

So to recap, the SKY Redline has:

A) More horsepower.
B) Way more torque.
C) Stiffer suspension.
D) Wider rims.
E) Better tires.
F) Similar weight to S2K.
G) Similar size to S2K.
H) $6K cheaper.
I) More modern design.

And you're still not satisfied? What the heck else do you want? Oh yeah, a Honda logo.

Oh yeah, and Saturn was known for making *boring* but reliable cars. Now they're making exciting reliable cars. I don't recall Saturns ever being prone to failure. Not any more so than Civics. Have seen plenty of Saturns with 200k on them. You people refuse to accept the fact that today's GM is making better cars than Honda can cheaply ship to the United States. GM lost it's way, but it's coming back with avengance.

 

[quagmire]

Maybe we have different defintions of long term reliability, but 50-80k is nothing, I have seen numerous Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans with well over 200, sometimes 300. As for the Korean cars, that is laughable, have you even driven one?

Maybe you didn't read my post completely. 80K with NO problems. And 50K SO FAR( meaning anything can still happen). My definition of long term is if a vehicle passed 150K without major problems, that is a reliable vehicle. I have heard from the forums I go to GM's vehicles going to 200K+. Especially the trucks. I never said the Korean cars were the best quality you can get. I was just saying they are getting out of their quality problems. Yeah, the interior needs improving, etc. But, quality is improving.

Have you even driven the G6 yet??? It STILL has the same crappy GM feel, a slightly better interior, but really it is no different. Who is to say I won't give GM a chance? Their quality has NOT improved vastly, nor is it anywhere near Honda, Toyota, or Nissan.

Yes I have driven the G6. While the interior still has relatively cheap plastics, it has a nice and well put together feel. The "POS" Pushrod 3500 and 3900 VVT V6's are smooth as butter. Quiet, no course noise unlike the 3400 in my Equinox( Yes, the motor is a POS and should die within the next 3 years), and the suspension was very nice. Your bias towards Honda is not giving GM a chance. Their quality has vastly improved. Ever take a look at JD Power? Consumer Reports "scientific" research is flawed. One of the flaws is that they only survey the subscribers and GM fans refuse to sign up to CR due to their bias in their reviews. While I agree they are not to Toyota levels of quality, they are getting close.

This is getting off the previous topic, but I hate the Ridgeline also, buy a Titan.

Buy a Titan? While a good truck, bring in reliability and it goes downhill from there. It has a spotty reliability record so far along with Nissan overall. Me? I would rather buy a F-150 or the new 2007 GMT-900 Silverado or Sierra. Or hell, the current Silverado or Sierra.

 

[yg17]

So to recap, the SKY Redline has:

A) More horsepower.
B) Way more torque.
C) Stiffer suspension.
D) Wider rims.
E) Better tires.
F) Similar weight to S2K.
G) Similar size to S2K.
H) $6K cheaper.
I) More modern design.

And you're still not satisfied? What the heck else do you want? Oh yeah, a Honda logo.

Oh yeah, and Saturn was known for making *boring* but reliable cars. Now they're making exciting reliable cars. I don't recall Saturns ever being prone to failure. Not any more so than Civics. Have seen plenty of Saturns with 200k on them. You people refuse to accept the fact that today's GM is making better cars than Honda can cheaply ship to the United States. GM lost it's way, but it's coming back with avengance.

Yes, I'd want a Honda logo. Because I want Honda reliability, which GM will never match.

 

[dpaanlka]

Yes, I'd want a Honda logo. Because I want Honda reliability, which GM will never match.

I think the EcoTec has proven itself an extremely strong engine. But, you're free to have your opinions.

 

[climhazzard85]

Maybe you didn't read my post completely. 80K with NO problems. And 50K SO FAR( meaning anything can still happen). My definition of long term is if a vehicle passed 150K without major problems, that is a reliable vehicle. I have heard from the forums I go to GM's vehicles going to 200K+. Especially the trucks. I never said the Korean cars were the best quality you can get. I was just saying they are getting out of their quality problems. Yeah, the interior needs improving, etc. But, quality is improving.

Sure there are some GM trucks going over 200k, I won't argue with that. GM's truck engines (in general their V6's and V8's) are not bad at all. It is EVERYTHING ELSE they suck at.

Yes I have driven the G6. While the interior still has relatively cheap plastics, it has a nice and well put together feel. The "POS" Pushrod 3500 and 3900 VVT V6's are smooth as butter. Quiet, no course noise unlike the 3400 in my Equinox( Yes, the motor is a POS and should die within the next 3 years), and the suspension was very nice. Your bias towards Honda is not giving GM a chance. Their quality has vastly improved. Ever take a look at JD Power? Consumer Reports "scientific" research is flawed. One of the flaws is that they only survey the subscribers and GM fans refuse to sign up to CR due to their bias in their reviews. While I agree they are not to Toyota levels of quality, they are getting close.

They are NOWHERE close to Toyota quality. Vastly improved from what? They are still making cheap underperforming cars, and losing vasts amounts of money while doing so. Additionally, I do not care what JD Power says, I am telling you from personal experience. I have no damn bias towards Honda, I am speaking from experience, haven driven plenty of these cars on a daily basis. I do not even own a Honda at present time.

Buy a Titan? While a good truck, bring in reliability and it goes downhill from there. It has a spotty reliability record so far along with Nissan overall. Me? I would rather buy a F-150 or the new 2007 GMT-900 Silverado or Sierra. Or hell, the current Silverado or Sierra.

Where do you get this nonsense? The VK is one strong motor, and it's performance puts the other manufacturers to shame. The only reliablilty problem the Titan has is the rotor issue, which is taken care of at the dealership free of charge. I really don't think this is a big deal considering it's Nissan's first full size pickup.

 

[climhazzard85]

*Sighs* here we go again.

So to recap, the SKY Redline has:

A) More horsepower.

Out of a forced induction engine, what do you think will end up being more reliable, a Honda N/A engine, or a GM turbocharged engine.

B) Way more torque.

That is true, but once again it is sacrificing reliability.

C) Stiffer suspension.

Yes, because we all know that the sole component in good handling is having a stiff suspension.

D) Wider rims.

Uh...I can't believe this is even part of your arguement, change the rims if you want, most enthusiasts will do so anyway.

E) Better tires.

Same as above

F) Similar weight to S2K.

And?

G) Similar size to S2K.

And?

H) $6K cheaper.

It's a Saturn, what kind of resale value do you think it will have? Honestly man, come on. This is like compairing a Dell to a Mac, does that make sense to you?

I) More modern design.

This is completely subjective.

And you're still not satisfied? What the heck else do you want? Oh yeah, a Honda logo.

A reliable car that doesn't say Saturn on it. You are the type who would buy an SRT-4 aren't you?

Oh yeah, and Saturn was known for making *boring* but reliable cars. Now they're making exciting reliable cars. I don't recall Saturns ever being prone to failure. Not any more so than Civics. Have seen plenty of Saturns with 200k on them. You people refuse to accept the fact that today's GM is making better cars than Honda can cheaply ship to the United States. GM lost it's way, but it's coming back with avengance.

Have you driven a saturn, and then driven a Civic? Please, know what you are talking about before spewing off this BS. GM is doing horrible, as well as they should be. You can't make cheap crap and get away with it forever.

 

[mpw]

...EDIT: I believe that Saturn is going to be sold as an Opel or Vauxhall in Europe.

I hate to continue pointing out the numerous flaws in your arguments but your the one digging your own hole.

While the Saturn will be on sale in Europe under GM's Opel/Vauxhall badging it's design is not able to accommodate right hand drive so it's going to be a none starter for people in the UK, Channel Islands, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Malta etc. where Honda market the S2000.

Remember we came in to this argument based on ergonomics, and I think you'll find having the driver on the wrong side of the car is a pretty flawed design ergonomically.

 

[mpw]

...I'll use my favorite examples to illustrate:

2006 Honda S2000
Price: ~$32,000
Horsepower: 237
Ft/lb Torque: 162 !!!!

2007 Saturn SKY Redline
Price: ~$26,000
Horsepower: 260
Ft/lb Torque: 260...

I know you aren't particularly bothered by the practicality of a car but availability should at least be a consideration the CURRENTLY available SKY compares to the Honda like this.

2006 Honda S2000
Price: ~$32,000
Horsepower: 237
Ft/lb Torque: 162

2007 Saturn SKY Redline
Price: ~$24,000
Horsepower: 177
Ft/lb Torque: 166

Ooo that 4lbFt of torque is going to make up for the 60bhp deficit isn't it??

And unless you've driven these as yet unavailable cars your only taking manufactures or press reports word, which is what you were bemoaning people of only a few posts ago.

 

[quagmire]

I hate to continue pointing out the numerous flaws in your arguments but your the one digging your own hole.

While the Saturn will be on sale in Europe under GM's Opel/Vauxhall badging it's design is not able to accommodate right hand drive so it's going to be a none starter for people in the UK, Channel Islands, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Malta etc. where Honda market the S2000.

Remember we came in to this argument based on ergonomics, and I think you'll find having the driver on the wrong side of the car is a pretty flawed design ergonomically.

It is the exact opposite actually. Saturn will be rebadged Opel's. As I said in my posts above, the Saturn Sky is a rebadged Opel GT. The Saturn Aura is a rebadged Vectra, and there is a rumor of the Opel Astra coming here to the U.S as a Saturn. I do believe, which I would need confirmation from a member in the UK, Opels are right hand drive. The only GM car that I know of in Europe that is left hand drive is the Corvette due to the Y-Body would need extensive redoing to make it right hand drive capable.

 

[mark!]

Uhm about this whole saturn thing...

If this Saturn is not made of plastic, &&&& the leather isn't CRAP then maybe it's okay.

 

[quagmire]

Uhm about this whole saturn thing...

If this Saturn is not made of plastic, &&&& the leather isn't CRAP then maybe it's okay.

And Saturn will be using all sheetmetal for their new cars. So when the Vue is redesigned in '08, it will dump the plastic exterior. Same thing with the Ion. The Sky and Aura use sheet metal.

 

[mark!]

Cool....I guess?

I still don't like their leather, they are doing interesting things now but there's no way I would get one.

 

[munkees]

[quotw]

Have you driven a saturn, and then driven a Civic? Please, know what you are talking about before spewing off this BS. GM is doing horrible, as well as they should be. You can't make cheap crap and get away with it forever.[/QUOTE]

I driven a civic, it was a BOS, i could not believe it, after all the hype and seen all the people that own them, i was very dissapointed. I must say the GM cars I have driven are not bad, yes the nissian and toyotas drive alot nicer. In fact the toyota / nissan drive alot nicer than my bmw 535i.

Saturns drive nice, also they hold there value really well, which i was supprised.

 

[munkees]

I do believe, which I would need confirmation from a member in the UK, Opels are right hand drive. The only GM car that I know of in Europe that is left hand drive is the Corvette due to the Y-Body would need extensive redoing to make it right hand drive capable.

My guess you never been outside of the UK, if you go to germany where lots of opels are made, you only see left hand side, in fact the whole of mainland euope, uk/ireland is left handside.

The astra has been released in the usa before as the bellvue it was a BOS.

 

[quagmire]

My guess you never been outside of the UK, if you go to germany where lots of opels are made, you only see left hand side, in fact the whole of mainland euope, uk/ireland is left handside.

The astra has been released in the usa before as the bellvue it was a BOS.

I have never been outside of North America. I am American, so thats why I didn't know where the driver wheel is on Opels.

 

[mpw]

It is the exact opposite actually. Saturn will be rebadged Opel's. As I said in my posts above, the Saturn Sky is a rebadged Opel GT. ...

Wrong again I believe. The Saturn SKY concept appeared in the US in 2005 and was first sold in 2005, the Opel GT was unveiled in 2006 in Europe and will go on sale LHD only in 2007. I'd say that makes the Opel a re-badged Saturn.

 

[KC9AIC]

I know you aren't particularly bothered by the practicality of a car but availability should at least be a consideration the CURRENTLY available SKY compares to the Honda like this.

2006 Honda S2000
Price: ~$32,000
Horsepower: 237
Ft/lb Torque: 162

2007 Saturn SKY Redline
Price: ~$24,000
Horsepower: 177
Ft/lb Torque: 166

Ooo that 4lbFt of torque is going to make up for the 60bhp deficit isn't it??

And unless you've driven these as yet unavailable cars your only taking manufactures or press reports word, which is what you were bemoaning people of only a few posts ago.

You're quoting figures for the plain-vanilla, naturally aspirated Saturn Sky. Which is not the car being discussed.

Yes, not many people have driven the Sky Redline, which will have the same engine as the 2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP. The figures quoted above are, indeed only "the manufacturer's word", but GM has not been known for exaggerating horsepower (it underrated the last-generation Camaro), and has shown that the Ecotec is capable of producing 1000 hp.

 

[mpw]

You're quoting figures for the plain-vanilla, naturally aspirated Saturn Sky. Which is not the car being discussed.

Yes, not many people have driven the Sky Redline, which will have the same engine as the 2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP. The figures quoted above are, indeed only "the manufacturer's word", but GM has not been known for exaggerating horsepower (it underrated the last-generation Camaro), and has shown that the Ecotec is capable of producing 1000 hp.

Read the thread fully and you'll see that this started because of some Honda hater saying that Hondas weren't worthy cars and that people who bought them based on magazine articles were idiots, although I might be paraphrasing. The same poster has used two examples to compare to the Honda S2000 to prove his point, trouble is neither of the cars he's used are in production so his point isn't really valid or at least only as valid as a comparison of next years Honda saloon against 5year old BMW's.

All I've tried to do is point out the flaws in what some posters have pointed out, I don't have a problem with anybody not liking or liking any car they want but I don't like someone saying someone is an idiot for liking a car without backing up their argument, which 99% of the time they can't.

I don't think anyone has been mindlessly bashing any manufacturer other than Honda and I don't see why?

 

[quagmire]

Wrong again I believe. The Saturn SKY concept appeared in the US in 2005 and was first sold in 2005, the Opel GT was unveiled in 2006 in Europe and will go on sale LHD only in 2007. I'd say that makes the Opel a re-badged Saturn.

This is my weakness really. Talking about GM Europe. Since I am in the U.S. But, besides the GT, Saturns will be rebadged Opels.

 

[ITASOR]

I remember this thread being called post a "picture of your car" not "argument about your car".

 

[spinne1]

Sorry to tell you, but this is probably the most unergonomic and ulgy dash that has ever existed(and look at those seats!):

Indeed it is unergonomic. As for ugly I thought the same thing when I first rented one in 1992. I was a bit shaken. A few days later it had grown on me to where I REALLY liked it. It just feels open. You can put a person in the middle of the front seat and they can have a reasonable ride (it's not GREAT, but doable. If they are overweight--forget it.). As for those seats, yes they are hideous but my and my wife's LeSabres are both cloth and not like that (I much prefer cloth). That steering wheel in the pic is also wrapped in some after market thing, which I think is very ugly. Anyhow, I LIKE this dash alot.

 

[jaysmith]

My 1987 Buick Grand National.

Click

easily my favourite car. i plan for it to be my first as well. specs?

 

[CompUser]

Interior Pics of my mom's car.

Some people don't like the brown leather but my mom does and I think its not too bad. There are very few cars with that color of seats.

 

[FadeToBlack]

Interior Pics of my mom's car.

Some people don't like the brown leather but my mom does and I think its not too bad. There are very few cars with that color of seats.

I LOVE brown leather! NICE!

 

[cplusON3R]

Interior Pics of my mom's car.

Some people don't like the brown leather but my mom does and I think its not too bad. There are very few cars with that color of seats.

mmm... Touareg.. good times indeed. did she get it with the air suspension?