Please recommend a 6G RAID card with internal ports for the Mac Pro 2010

[noushy]

Nano

I see you are back in full force. I have been avoiding the whole 6G thing since the performance of most multichannel cards with standard drives is fine. If you are running an array based on SSD drives then I can see the value at this time, but no mechanical drive is going to max out 3G (SATA II) at this time. BTW Nano, running an xserve now, made life so much easier. Have two Sans Digital SAS Chassis, 316X2, dual SAS connectors for 2400MB/S performace, and it has made dealing with raid simple. No more time out errors, no more hard drives dropping out, nothing. Not sure if plunking down $2500 per chassis is worth it but for me with no headaches it was.

Peace,
Noushy

 

[nanofrog]

I see you are back in full force. I have been avoiding the whole 6G thing since the performance of most multichannel cards with standard drives is fine. If you are running an array based on SSD drives then I can see the value at this time, but no mechanical drive is going to max out 3G (SATA II) at this time. BTW Nano, running an xserve now, made life so much easier. Have two Sans Digital SAS Chassis, 316X2, dual SAS connectors for 2400MB/S performance, and it has made dealing with raid simple. No more time out errors, no more hard drives dropping out, nothing. Not sure if plunking down $2500 per chassis is worth it but for me with no headaches it was.

Peace,
Noushy

The 6Gb/s cards are still faster than their previous 3Gb/s counterparts with the same disks (i.e. 1680 series vs. 1880 series running the same firmware revision, v1.49). Moving to 6.0Gb/s has both marketing as well as performance implications though (particularly in the enterprise market as SLC based SSD's fall in price and hopefully become more prevalent). I would expect mechanicals that run 6.0Gb/s controllers will run faster as well, even though they can't saturate the interface (native = no shifting backwards for compatibility). For a new storage solution, it would be best to go ahead and get the 6.0Gb/s compliant gear (allows for future growth by only dealing with drives and enclosures, assuming the port count isn't under-planned).

So if the existing equipment will be sufficient through it's planned lifespan, there's no need to rush out and buy 6Gb/s gear.

As per the equipment you used, the ease of use is why it costs so much (the software was already loaded, configured <save user settings>, and tested with the hardware) . I'd recommend keeping it until it no longer meets your needs (gets the job done and doesn't waste funds = keeps boss happy and your job secure ).

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

As per the diagram, it's correct (hard to follow the wire colors as the bend around, but it looks right in terms of location as well as color).

What you're asking about (backplane cable that splits into two separate connectors with 4 wires for power) do exist (here). It's not as clean IMO, but functional, and at least from this link, is more expensive (would have expected it to be cheaper, as they're used more often in PC's). If you look, I suspect you'll be able to locate it cheaper (just make sure you've more than 2 wires on the power connector - only get it if it has 4 power wires).

As per soldering, it's not hard, particularly soldering 2 wires together (buying a stick soldering iron, heat shrink tubing and solder won't be that expensive; should be able to manage it for under $20USD <example>, and it's handy for other projects). You can get a pack of heatshrink tubing from Walmart for under $5USD, and stay around the $20USD mark (as I assume you don't have any of the equipment or supplies to do it based on your aversion to soldering).

• You don't have to solder, but it is the cleanest way to go about it (solid connections, and stays thin when bundled up together).

If you go with wire nuts or crimp connectors, stagger them if you can (won't get "pregnant snake syndrome" when you bundle the wiring up if you do this).


This actually isn't an issue on any other system (have access to the firmware during the boot process to access settings such as to set the boot location). But is on the MP since Apple doesn't grant this form of access to firmware settings.


I've not gone and taken a look at the OWC forums, but I'm wondering if it was for a 2009 system (where modification of the firmware would be necessary for any B1 stepped part).

It actually has been done with special equipment on a 2009 (involves soldering equipment for SMT parts, the Flash ROM that contains the firmware to be specific, and a Universal Programmer). I described the process some time back, and someone either followed it or already knew the process, and did it themselves. Works, but is a lot of effort to do something any other system can do with a free firmware upgrade mad: at Apple for doing this).

It's not that I have an innate fear of soldering the task indeed sounds fairly straightforward and from a rational perspective very little can go wrong but there is just something about connecting 2x $500 SSD's with a cable that underwent some DIY soldering that does not sit too well with me and I can't really test it with a cheapo PC first too as that does not have any backplane cables that have male SATA DATA/POWER header.

I believe I will instead purchase the kind of cable you posted a link to and stay away from soldering or using nuts and crimp connectors. It probably won't turn out much more expensive either as I won't be needing that SATA Y splitter, but a regular widely available 2xSATA power that connects to molex will do with a cable like in link.

Also have found this one, but it's 1m long! No info on how long the one in your link is too.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1m-Hard-Disk-SFF-8482-SAS-Cable-29P-1-SATA-7P-Cable-/130468432498?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e60864a72#ht_645wt_901


And this one, but it has 2x SAS connectors on the main female header so I doubt it will be compatible with the backplane connection cable on the Mac Pro.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hard-Disk-SFF-8482-SAS-29Pin-2-SATA-7Pin-Cable-0-5m-/110654347387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c383587b#ht_1881wt_901

 

[nanofrog]

It's not that I have an innate fear of soldering the task indeed sounds fairly straightforward and from a rational perspective very little can go wrong but there is just something about connecting 2x $500 SSD's with a cable that underwent some DIY soldering that does not sit too well with me and I can't really test it with a cheapo PC first too as that does not have any backplane cables that have male SATA DATA/POWER header.

It's a better connection than using crimp connectors, and is how your expensive electronics are manufactured (all the components are soldered to the PCB).

Soldering wire isn't as common as crimp connectors due to costs (more labor intensive to solder, as well as more expensive materials and equipment is used).

I believe I will instead purchase the kind of cable you posted a link to and stay away from soldering or using nuts and crimp connectors. It probably won't turn out much more expensive either as I won't be needing that SATA Y splitter, but a regular widely available 2xSATA power that connects to molex will do with a cable like in link.

Either way will work, so it's up to you (soldered version isn't quite as messy IMO).

Also have found this one, but it's 1m long! No info on how long the one in your link is too.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/1m-Hard-Disk-SFF-8482-SAS-Cable-29P-1-SATA-7P-Cable-/130468432498?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e60864a72#ht_645wt_901

The one I linked was 0.5 meters. You cannot go over 1.0 meters in total cable length with SATA drives, so please keep that in mind (the signal voltage is weak, and anything longer causes stability problems).

And this one, but it has 2x SAS connectors on the main female header so I doubt it will be compatible with the backplane connection cable on the Mac Pro.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Hard-Disk-SFF-8482-SAS-29Pin-2-SATA-7Pin-Cable-0-5m-/110654347387?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c383587b#ht_1881wt_901

Skip this one.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

It's a better connection than using crimp connectors, and is how your expensive electronics are manufactured (all the components are soldered to the PCB).

Soldering wire isn't as common as crimp connectors due to costs (more labor intensive to solder, as well as more expensive materials and equipment is used).


Either way will work, so it's up to you (soldered version isn't quite as messy IMO).


The one I linked was 0.5 meters. You cannot go over 1.0 meters in total cable length with SATA drives, so please keep that in mind (the signal voltage is weak, and anything longer causes stability problems).



Skip this one.

Thanks for all the invaluable advice. I am now pretty much ready to put the order in for all the parts and upgrade this thing to 2x X5690, 2x SSD, 4x 3TB in RAID5 ,1880 Areca controller and the MaxUpgrades kit. The mac is already here, some company went bust and I picked up a new, boxed 2010 8-core machine for 2.7k with apple care which is sure as heck cheaper and less burdensome than building one from scratch.

It's a damn shame about not being able to boot off more than one volume that is on the 1880 controller as I ultimately wanted to have 2x 240GB 6G mercury drives each with a different OS in pass through mode, now it looks like I will go for a slightly cheaper SATA2 SSD for the Win 7 install since it will be off the onboard controller.

I suppose I could still RAID0 2x 240GB 6G Mercury drives and use bootcamp to install on a 240GB partition dedicated to Windows 7, but this would be a riskier setup since I would loose access to both OS if the RAID0 played up. The Mac would not have trouble booting two OS off a partitioned RAID0 volume would it?
The mercury drives do sound reliable though, do you think a RAID0 with the 2x new 6G Mercury's is viable option? Or should I get those RAID edition Mercury drives, what makes them more suitable for RAID anywhere?

 

[cvelezv]

6G RAID card internal port

If you want to use an internal port with an external enclosure, there's a special cable you'd need to get for this. If you want to use the external port (keep in mind, this typically shares ports with an internal connector in past models, such as the 1680 series), you'd need to buy one. Either way, these do not come with the card, and you'd only need to get them if you're planning on running an external enclosure/s.

Nanofrog, could you please tell me what is the special cable that I need to get to use the 2nd SFF-8087 internal port on the Areca 1880 to connect an external enclosure?

 

[nanofrog]

It's a damn shame about not being able to boot off more than one volume that is on the 1880 controller as I ultimately wanted to have 2x 240GB 6G mercury drives each with a different OS in pass through mode, now it looks like I will go for a slightly cheaper SATA2 SSD for the Win 7 install since it will be off the onboard controller.

There's not that many SSD's out yet that can exceed a 3.0Gb/s controller (most reach sustained sequential throughputs of ~250MB/s or so, and 3.0Gb/s is good for ~270 -275MB/s), so you don't need to panic over this.

I suppose I could still RAID0 2x 240GB 6G Mercury drives and use bootcamp to install on a 240GB partition dedicated to Windows 7, but this would be a riskier setup since I would loose access to both OS if the RAID0 played up. The Mac would not have trouble booting two OS off a partitioned RAID0 volume would it?

You won't be able to do this.

Boot Camp doesn't work with RAID (hardware or software). So you'll have to use a single disk on the ICH (no need to run the Boot Camp utility, as it's a partition tool). The BC disk does include Windows drivers however (setup.exe), so you may need to run those, particularly for wireless drivers.

You can place the OS X disk either on the ICH or RAID card (flash the firmware, set the disk as the boot location).

The mercury drives do sound reliable though, do you think a RAID0 with the 2x new 6G Mercury's is viable option? Or should I get those RAID edition Mercury drives, what makes them more suitable for RAID anywhere?

The only difference between them is the amount of over-provisioning (additional capacity used for wear leveling; 7% for the Pro series, 28% for the RAID Edition series).

There doesn't seem to be any other differences (same controller and firmware timings from what I can tell). Both have been used successfully in stripe sets on both the ICH and hardware RAID cards. So if you're doing more reads than writes, the Pro series would be fine. If you're going to do a lot of writing (massive amounts of data), then the RE series may be the way to go. Another trick, is not to fill the SSD up all the way.

Nanofrog, could you please tell me what is the special cable that I need to get to use the 2nd SFF-8087 internal port on the Areca 1880 to connect an external enclosure?

1.0 meter SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 cable

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

There's not that many SSD's out yet that can exceed a 3.0Gb/s controller (most reach sustained sequential throughputs of ~250MB/s or so, and 3.0Gb/s is good for ~270 -275MB/s), so you don't need to panic over this.


You won't be able to do this.

Boot Camp doesn't work with RAID (hardware or software). So you'll have to use a single disk on the ICH (no need to run the Boot Camp utility, as it's a partition tool). The BC disk does include Windows drivers however (setup.exe), so you may need to run those, particularly for wireless drivers.

You can place the OS X disk either on the ICH or RAID card (flash the firmware, set the disk as the boot location).


The only difference between them is the amount of over-provisioning (additional capacity used for wear leveling; 7% for the Pro series, 28% for the RAID Edition series).

There doesn't seem to be any other differences (same controller and firmware timings from what I can tell). Both have been used successfully in stripe sets on both the ICH and hardware RAID cards. So if you're doing more reads than writes, the Pro series would be fine. If you're going to do a lot of writing (massive amounts of data), then the RE series may be the way to go. Another trick, is not to fill the SSD up all the way.


1.0 meter SFF-8087 to SFF-8088 cable

Oh well. I suppose the 6G mercury still outperforms it's 3G predecessor even on a SATA2 controller ? You reckon it's worth putting a 6G Mercury on the Areca controller where I assume it should really shine or stick both on the onboard sata2 controller and reduce complexity.

This bootcamp disk, I am suppose to burn it using the bootcamp utility or is it included ? This is really my first mac you see, hence all these trivial questions about bootcamp and dual booting.

So bootcamp is just a partitioning and driver preparation/injection? utility. Where as in my case I am using two different SSD's and not sharing one with OSX. Hence bootcamp is of no real purpose to me other than the drivers it has for Win7. So I can just stick a win7 dvd in and boot off the thing by holding option key and selecting the superdrive to boot from and Windows 7 setup will start ? And once setup finishes I just stick the bootcamp diver cd in and install the drivers or do I have to provide them during Windows 7 setup ?

 

[nanofrog]

Oh well. I suppose the 6G mercury still outperforms it's 3G predecessor even on a SATA2 controller ? You reckon it's worth putting a 6G Mercury on the Areca controller where I assume it should really shine or stick both on the onboard sata2 controller and reduce complexity.

Assuming that disk does what they claim in terms of sustained sequential throughputs (the 3.0Gb/s units didn't, but weren't slouches), it would fare better on the Areca than the ICH.

What you need to pay attention to however, is the random access performance which is what OS and applications rely on (so far, I've not been impressed with that particular bit of performance from 6.0Gb/s SSD's - I've not gone out and looked at all of them, but it's not what I'd have hoped for, which is at least double the previous drives).

This bootcamp disk, I am suppose to burn it using the bootcamp utility or is it included ? This is really my first mac you see, hence all these trivial questions about bootcamp and dual booting.

It's on the system disks, but you can also download it, then burn it to a DVD as well (might be a good idea, just in case there's a newer version).

So bootcamp is just a partitioning and driver preparation/injection? utility.

Yes.

Where as in my case I am using two different SSD's and not sharing one with OSX. Hence bootcamp is of no real purpose to me other than the drivers it has for Win7.

Correct. The only thing on that disk that could be useful, are the Windows drivers (installed by running the setup.exe file on the system disks). If you're not running wireless however, Windows 7 should be able to the latest drivers on it's own (only the wireless drivers seemed to be problematic IIRC, so run it if you're using a wireless keyboard and mouse).

So I can just stick a win7 dvd in and boot off the thing by holding option key and selecting the superdrive to boot from and Windows 7 setup will start ? And once setup finishes I just stick the bootcamp diver cd in and install the drivers or do I have to provide them during Windows 7 setup ?

Yes. Install Windows, then the drivers off of the system disk (setup.exe).

Further information can be found here.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

]Assuming that disk does what they claim in terms of sustained sequential throughputs (the 3.0Gb/s units didn't, but weren't slouches), it would fare better on the Areca than the ICH.

What you need to pay attention to however, is the random access performance which is what OS and applications rely on (so far, I've not been impressed with that particular bit of performance from 6.0Gb/s SSD's - I've not gone out and looked at all of them, but it's not what I'd have hoped for, which is at least double the previous drives).
[/B]

It's on the system disks, but you can also download it, then burn it to a DVD as well (might be a good idea, just in case there's a newer version).


Yes.


Correct. The only thing on that disk that could be useful, are the Windows drivers (installed by running the setup.exe file on the system disks). If you're not running wireless however, Windows 7 should be able to the latest drivers on it's own (only the wireless drivers seemed to be problematic IIRC, so run it if you're using a wireless keyboard and mouse).


Yes. Install Windows, then the drivers off of the system disk (setup.exe).

Further information can be found here.

Either way, they seem to be alright value and about as good as any other 240GB 6G drive on the market now. I was going to get an OCz but after reading an OWC article on how OCz supposedly uses off-spec NAND chips it really put me off the idea

I believe I have found a place to source some X5690 for cheap, but they are being pulled from an Dell R710 server. Have you any idea if the chip design for the Dell R710 is the same as retail or altered somehow/specific like the HP DP X5690 with a different IHS etc.. like in the below link?

http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-xeon-dp-x5690-3-46-ghz-processor-upgrade-socket-b-lga-1366-hexa/q/loc/101/220240015.html

 

[nanofrog]

Either way, they seem to be alright value and about as good as any other 240GB 6G drive on the market now. I was going to get an OCz but after reading an OWC article on how OCz supposedly uses off-spec NAND chips it really put me off the idea

I'd skip the OCZ drives from what I've seen as well.

I believe I have found a place to source some X5690 for cheap, but they are being pulled from an Dell R710 server. Have you any idea if the chip design for the Dell R710 is the same as retail or altered somehow/specific like the HP DP X5690 with a different IHS etc.. like in the below link?

http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-xeon-dp-x5690-3-46-ghz-processor-upgrade-socket-b-lga-1366-hexa/q/loc/101/220240015.html

AFIAK, they're standard (come with an IHS). The photo of the HP P/N supports this as well (standard part, as sold as OEM or Retail).

The only one that immediately comes to mind (no IHS), is with the 55xx parts Apple used in 2009 DP systems. They went to standard parts with the 56xx used on the 2010 DP systems (standard OEM parts with the IHS, and added the latch cover to the socket as Intel designed it). I suspect skipping the latch cover and using naked parts was a failed attempt (by Foxconn actually) at cutting costs, but did away with it due to defect rates from bent pins during the assembly process "eating" those savings due to the expense of rework and waste.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

Put the Windows disk on the ICH (system's SATA ports), as the card cannot dual boot like that in a MP (been tried before and has never worked).

Other than the Windows disk, it will work.

Is this something specifically to do with the Areca 1880 series cards and the Mac Pro 2010 or does this ring true for all other 3rd party RAID controllers?

When you previously said this is because one does not have access to firmware/EFI settings and can't change the boot device I am wondering why this is required, wouldn't there be a loader\boot menu that one can bring up? How would I then select between the primary OSX install on SSD1/Areca and Win 7 on SSD2/ICH if there wasn't a boot menu? Or is it simply some kind of limitation that will not allow the Mac Pro to detect and display in the boot menu stage any drives attached to the Areca controller other than the one that was set as boot drive in OSX?

 

[nanofrog]

Is this something specifically to do with the Areca 1880 series cards and the Mac Pro 2010 or does this ring true for all other 3rd party RAID controllers?

It's true for any 3rd party RAID controller. It's also true for software based configurations (SATA or SAS ports + software and system resources).

When you previously said this is because one does not have access to firmware/EFI settings and can't change the boot device I am wondering why this is required, wouldn't there be a loader\boot menu that one can bring up? How would I then select between the primary OSX install on SSD1/Areca and Win 7 on SSD2/ICH if there wasn't a boot menu? Or is it simply some kind of limitation that will not allow the Mac Pro to detect and display in the boot menu stage any drives attached to the Areca controller other than the one that was set as boot drive in OSX?

Setting the boot device has nothing to do with it.

Boot Camp + RAID = DO NOT WORK. Period.

So keep Windows and OS X on a single disk each (or BC a single SSD attached to the ICH), which isn't a problem. Remember, stripe sets don't improve random access at best, and can actually create a performance penalty over a single disk when using SSD's.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

It's true for any 3rd party RAID controller. It's also true for software based configurations (SATA or SAS ports + software and system resources).


Setting the boot device has nothing to do with it.

Boot Camp + RAID = DO NOT WORK. Period.

So keep Windows and OS X on a single disk each (or BC a single SSD attached to the ICH), which isn't a problem. Remember, stripe sets don't improve random access at best, and can actually create a performance penalty over a single disk when using SSD's.

You seem to have misunderstood me. Sorry, should have been more specific. This time I wasn't asking about booting off a RAID0 etc. volume or installing both OS on a RAID volume as I understand boot camp does not work with RAID volumes.

I am just trying to wrap my head around why if I would have 2x SSD's (one with Win7, the other OSX) connected to the Areca controller in pass through mode (not raid) would I not be able to select the drive to boot from upon startup or in the worst case from within OSX through the startup disk utility?

Or say if I have one SSD connected to the backplane SATA2 ports via backplane cable and the other to the Areca controller in pass through mode, what methods will be available to me for switching between the operating system I wish to boot from ? e.g. Can I call up a boot menu holding the option key during startup and select to boot from the SSD with Windows 7 or must I first log into OSX, open startup disk utility and select the SSD with Win 7 as the drive to startup from next time? or is this managed through bootcamp?


As for mounting the two SSD's and connecting power to them what is your opinion on the MaxUpgrade kits like the below, they don't have any pics etc. Do their power cables take power from the backplane cable and splice off into multiple SATA power? if so do you think there is data cable to connect the one SSD to onboard sata2:

MaxConnect for Mac Pro [2009-2010] Models
Disk Drive Mount (CNC Machined Aluminum) for the Four 2.5 inch SATA drives in the Optical Bay
iPass /MiniSAS Cable from the PCIe Controller to the Optical Bay 1 meter - to the Areca
Power Cables for the Four 2.5 inch SATA Drives
Mac Pro's with Third Party RAID Cards (with MiniSAS Connector)


Is the battery backup module T113 worth getting for
the Areca 1880 to protect against power failure or is it not that vital
if one has a good UPS? I suppose an UPS does not protect against
internal PC failures, accidental shut downs etc. But the Mac Pro
seems to be a reliable machine.

 

[nanofrog]

I am just trying to wrap my head around why if I would have 2x SSD's (one with Win7, the other OSX) connected to the Areca controller in pass through mode (not raid) would I not be able to select the drive to boot from upon startup or in the worst case from within OSX through the startup disk utility?

OK.

Well, first off, you cannot have both OS's on the RAID card. OS X would boot from the card, but Windows will not. This is why the Windows disk must be attached to the ICH (it's been tried unsuccessfully with multiple cards from different brands).

But with this configuration, you will be able to use the Boot Loader built into the MP's firmware to select which OS you want to boot (still have to set the OS X boot disk under System Preferences). Windows is done during the installation process (you select the disk location, and that gets set in the Boot Loader).

Take a look at Apple's Boot Camp page for further information (How To Guide).

Or say if I have one SSD connected to the backplane SATA2 ports via backplane cable and the other to the Areca controller in pass through mode, what methods will be available to me for switching between the operating system I wish to boot from ? e.g. Can I call up a boot menu holding the option key during startup and select to boot from the SSD with Windows 7 or must I first log into OSX, open startup disk utility and select the SSD with Win 7 as the drive to startup from next time? or is this managed through bootcamp?

Assuming you mean to use the ICH for the Windows disk (backplane connector that's meant for the empty ODD bay), see above.

To access the Boot Loader Menu, hold down the Option key during startup (brings up the installed OS's), and select which one you want to use.

As for mounting the two SSD's and connecting power to them what is your opinion on the MaxUpgrade kits like the below, they don't have any pics etc. Do their power cables take power from the backplane cable and splice off into multiple SATA power? if so do you think there is data cable to connect the one SSD to onboard sata2:

MaxConnect for Mac Pro [2009-2010] Models
Disk Drive Mount (CNC Machined Aluminum) for the Four 2.5 inch SATA drives in the Optical Bay
iPass /MiniSAS Cable from the PCIe Controller to the Optical Bay 1 meter - to the Areca
Power Cables for the Four 2.5 inch SATA Drives
Mac Pro's with Third Party RAID Cards (with MiniSAS Connector)

The kit includes a means of getting power to the disks (connects to the connector on the backplane board <one with the PCIe slots>, where the drives normally connect to <both power and data to the ICH>). So you get up to 4 of these (part of why you need to pay attention to the part number you order from MaxUpgrades).

It's meant to get up to 4x HDD's attached to a 3rd party RAID card (includes all the parts needed to do this, such as cables and custom trays that are shallower in order for the cables to fit).

In short, it will do what you need (has been used successfully many times). Just make sure you order the right part (both system's model year as well as the disk count - it's not hard, but do pay attention or you may get the wrong one).

Is the battery backup module T113 worth getting for
the Areca 1880 to protect against power failure or is it not that vital
if one has a good UPS? I suppose an UPS does not protect against
internal PC failures, accidental shut downs etc. But the Mac Pro
seems to be a reliable machine.

Ideally, run both. So if the budget allows for it, get it.

BTW, make sure the UPS uses a pure sine wave inverter, not a stepped unit (i.e. SmartUPS series from APC). There are another type beginning to ship (PWM based steps = more of them, so it better approximates a sine wave). But for about the same cost, you can get a true sine wave unit in the refurbished market if you look.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

OK.

Well, first off, you cannot have both OS's on the RAID card. OS X would boot from the card, but Windows will not. This is why the Windows disk must be attached to the ICH (it's been tried unsuccessfully with multiple cards from different brands).

But with this configuration, you will be able to use the Boot Loader built into the MP's firmware to select which OS you want to boot (still have to set the OS X boot disk under System Preferences). Windows is done during the installation process (you select the disk location, and that gets set in the Boot Loader).

Take a look at Apple's Boot Camp page for further information (How To Guide).

Assuming you mean to use the ICH for the Windows disk (backplane connector that's meant for the empty ODD bay), see above.

To access the Boot Loader Menu, hold down the Option key during startup (brings up the installed OS's), and select which one you want to use.


The kit includes a means of getting power to the disks (connects to the connector on the backplane board <one with the PCIe slots>, where the drives normally connect to <both power and data to the ICH>). So you get up to 4 of these (part of why you need to pay attention to the part number you order from MaxUpgrades).

It's meant to get up to 4x HDD's attached to a 3rd party RAID card (includes all the parts needed to do this, such as cables and custom trays that are shallower in order for the cables to fit).

In short, it will do what you need (has been used successfully many times). Just make sure you order the right part (both system's model year as well as the disk count - it's not hard, but do pay attention or you may get the wrong one).


Ideally, run both. So if the budget allows for it, get it.

BTW, make sure the UPS uses a pure sine wave inverter, not a stepped unit (i.e. SmartUPS series from APC). There are another type beginning to ship (PWM based steps = more of them, so it better approximates a sine wave). But for about the same cost, you can get a true sine wave unit in the refurbished market if you look.

Thanks.

So I have now upgraded the Mac Pro with 2x X5690 and they work great. Only thing concerning me is the temperature for processor A is like 6 degrees higher when idle (B 28, A 33) and up to 12 degrees celcius higher when stress testing in Prime95 in OSX. Using iStat, it unfortunately shows only the average temp for all cores on any one CPU and not temp for each core. Is these anything available for OSX that will show all core temps?

I doubt it's a case of heatsink having poor contact with CPU due to thermal grease having gaps etc. Because the temperatures are still in the norm, it's just that CPU B is really cool. After about 15 min in Prime95 it sort of averages 63 for CPU B and 72 for CPU A and these 1366 chips can safely do 78/80 as far as I recall.

Not worth remounting you reckon ? I applied even amounts of MX-4 to both chips and covered their surface entirely.

Also I understand bootcamp does not work with RAID volumes but is there a utility available for OSX that would allow me to partition my 4x 3TB RAID5 volume as such: 4TB HFS partition and the other 4TB in NTFS. I want that RAID5 space to not only be available to OSX but also to Windows 7 that will be installed on the other SSD.

 

[nanofrog]

So I have now upgraded the Mac Pro with 2x X5690 and they work great. Only thing concerning me is the temperature for processor A is like 6 degrees higher when idle (B 28, A 33) and up to 12 degrees celcius higher when stress testing in Prime95 in OSX. Using iStat, it unfortunately shows only the average temp for all cores on any one CPU and not temp for each core. Is these anything available for OSX that will show all core temps?

I doubt it's a case of heatsink having poor contact with CPU due to thermal grease having gaps etc. Because the temperatures are still in the norm, it's just that CPU B is really cool. After about 15 min in Prime95 it sort of averages 63 for CPU B and 72 for CPU A and these 1366 chips can safely do 78/80 as far as I recall.

Not worth remounting you reckon ? I applied even amounts of MX-4 to both chips and covered their surface entirely.

What are the temps under stress testing?

A couple of things to note:

1. CPU's differ slightly between one another, so temp differences from one to the next are common.
2. Hot air from the front CPU cooler could be pulled into the intake of the second CPU cooler (one set further back sucking in hot air).
3. Temp software can differ in readings.

So long as you're not holding over 67C, I wouldn't worry about it (temp Intel states they can run at constantly without any damage).

Also I understand bootcamp does not work with RAID volumes but is there a utility available for OSX that would allow me to partition my 4x 3TB RAID5 volume as such: 4TB HFS partition and the other 4TB in NTFS. I want that RAID5 space to not only be available to OSX but also to Windows 7 that will be installed on the other SSD.

You don't need to do this (such tools will cause significant problems from everything I've heard).

As it's controlled by the card, all you need to do, is partition the array (would need to be done under Windows, as you cannot partition in the RAID Console - what you get when you access the card via the browser). Format one for HFS and the other for NTFS, and install the drivers under Windows (must partition first).

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

What are the temps under stress testing?

A couple of things to note:

1. CPU's differ slightly between one another, so temp differences from one to the next are common.
2. Hot air from the front CPU cooler could be pulled into the intake of the second CPU cooler (one set further back sucking in hot air).
3. Temp software can differ in readings.

So long as you're not holding over 67C, I wouldn't worry about it (temp Intel states they can run at constantly without any damage).


You don't need to do this (such tools will cause significant problems from everything I've heard).

As it's controlled by the card, all you need to do, is partition the array (would need to be done under Windows, as you cannot partition in the RAID Console - what you get when you access the card via the browser). Format one for HFS and the other for NTFS, and install the drivers under Windows (must partition first).

That's what I am thinking, not all CPU's are made equal. Some run hotter, need more VID, some cooler etc.

The temperatures under full load when running prime 95 are 73 for CPU A and 63 for CPU B.

The heatsink of CPU A is a lot hotter when I touch it.

Fan speed readouts are at the same rpm for both heatsinks.


Considering that Prime95 is a stress test tool and the processors will never encounter similar loads in everyday use, even when encoding video for hours I am thinking the temps should be fine.


When I ran prime on the PC using something like the i7-950 and stock intel heatsink the temps were all in 80's, so I figure this ain' too bad.

Still 63 and 73 are a pretty big difference.




So partition the Array in Windows using something like Partition Magic ? As otherwise I believe the default disk management utility in Windows cannot partition in HFS?

 

[nanofrog]

The temperatures under full load when running prime 95 are 73 for CPU A and 63 for CPU B.

Tad higher than I'd like, but can probably be lived with (assuming the reported data is even accurate).

So partition the Array in Windows using something like Partition Magic ? As otherwise I believe the default disk management utility in Windows cannot partition in HFS?

Not sure how Partition Magic would work with an array (never tried it).

I just use the OS's ability to partition, or on occasion, Acronis True Image (use it for backup and cloning under Windows, but it also has a partition tool in it).

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

Tad higher than I'd like, but can probably be lived with (assuming the reported data is even accurate).


Not sure how Partition Magic would work with an array (never tried it).

I just use the OS's ability to partition, or on occasion, Acronis True Image (use it for backup and cloning under Windows, but it also has a partition tool in it).

Oh, ok.

So just partition in Windows, format one partition in NTFS, leave the other one as unallocated space and from OSX format this unallocated free space in HFS.

What is the most accurate temp reading software out for the Mac anywhere? Like RealTemp on the PC gives very accurate reads.
iStat was recommended to me on these forums, though I don't have much confidence in it.

As lazy as I am think I am going to remount. However the way the temperature rises does not feel like it's the CPU making poor contact.
It's like for 3 minutes during prime95 test the CPU temp difference will be in 5-6 degree range, then very slowly the CPU A starts climbing up.

 

[nanofrog]

So just partition in Windows, format one partition in NTFS, leave the other one as unallocated space and from OSX format this unallocated free space in HFS.

You can start with OS X or Windows, either one. Just remember, the first partition will be faster, as it's the outer tracks on the drives. So I'd use that where performance is more critical (there's a performance hit using the inner tracks, so be aware of this as well).

What is the most accurate temp reading software out for the Mac anywhere? Like RealTemp on the PC gives very accurate reads.
iStat was recommended to me on these forums, though I don't have much confidence in it.

I stopped using a Mac back in 2008, but iStat was good back then. Not certain if this is the case, but Apple still uses thermal sensors, and would presume that it's still accurate (under the impression it reads these rather than the CPU diodes).

As lazy as I am think I am going to remount. However the way the temperature rises does not feel like it's the CPU making poor contact.
It's like for 3 minutes during prime95 test the CPU temp difference will be in 5-6 degree range, then very slowly the CPU A starts climbing up.

Might be worth it.

Thinking at bit more, you could have a couple of issues:

1. The copper surface on the cooler isn't laying flat for whatever reason (could be that it's not tightened down evenly, or there's an uneven surface in the IHS on the CPU). You could lap both the cooler and even the CPU, but I wouldn't go this far (cooler maybe, but skip the CPU unless it's obvious). Making sure one side isn't turned more than any of the others will make sure it tightens down evenly when you re-install the cooler. I realize you're not thinking any of this is the case, but it's actually possible (enough contact it's moving sufficient heat to prevent a quick death, but not as good as it should be).
2. Thermal sensor that goes into the cooler isn't quite installed properly (causing an innacurate reading).

Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

 

[solaris8x86]

As per the diagram, it's correct (hard to follow the wire colors as the bend around, but it looks right in terms of location as well as color).


It actually has been done with special equipment on a 2009 (involves soldering equipment for SMT parts, the Flash ROM that contains the firmware to be specific, and a Universal Programmer). I described the process some time back, and someone either followed it or already knew the process, and did it themselves. Works, but is a lot of effort to do something any other system can do with a free firmware upgrade mad: at Apple for doing this).

nanofrog,

Thanks for your advise. But I got one more question for Areca ARC-1880LP 6G RAID card. My Mac Pro is a 2010 Mid "12 cores Westmere" model. I checked on OWC Sales website (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Areca/ARC1880LP/) and it is mentioned that either only Mac Pro 2010 Mid "8 cores or 4 cores" is supported. Can you help to advise whether my 12 Cores Mac Pro machine will do with it?

 

[nanofrog]

nanofrog,

Thanks for your advise. But I got one more question for Areca ARC-1880LP 6G RAID card. My Mac Pro is a 2010 Mid "12 cores Westmere" model. I checked on OWC Sales website (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Areca/ARC1880LP/) and it is mentioned that either only Mac Pro 2010 Mid "8 cores or 4 cores" is supported. Can you help to advise whether my 12 Cores Mac Pro machine will do with it?

It'll work.

 

[solaris8x86]

It'll work.

Hi Nanafrong,

I got the ARC-1880LP on yesterday. I noticed that its performance (RAID-0) is not very well comparing to built-in software RAID of Snow Leopard (10.6). Would you advise what is the best stripe-size (8, 16, 32, 64, 128k) for hosting massive small 30MB files (digitals camera photo (RAW))? I've got around 500GB of these kind of small 30MB files. And they are not performing good under 64K stripe size (which is the default setting). Please kindly advise. (Notes: I tested the performance by AJA System Testing software)

Here is my RAID-0 Volume configuration:

- 1.5TB HDDs x 2
- formed a RAID-0 3.0TB setting (LBA-64k, 64KBtyes, Write Back)


And I have some single Pass-Through Disks having problem. Each time after a long period restart (for example, the Mac Pro shutdown for half day and restart up). The Pass-Through Disks are lost in the configuration and they would not be mounted again. I checked the configuration setting and found that they are reset to NOT as a Pass-Through Disk. What's wrong with the setting??

 

[nanofrog]

I got the ARC-1880LP on yesterday. I noticed that its performance (RAID-0) is not very well comparing to built-in software RAID of Snow Leopard (10.6). Would you advise what is the best stripe-size (8, 16, 32, 64, 128k) for hosting massive small 30MB files (digitals camera photo (RAW))? I've got around 500GB of these kind of small 30MB files. And they are not performing good under 64K stripe size (which is the default setting). Please kindly advise. (Notes: I tested the performance by AJA System Testing software)

Here is my RAID-0 Volume configuration:

- 1.5TB HDDs x 2
- formed a RAID-0 3.0TB setting (LBA-64k, 64KBtyes, Write Back)

Well, at 30MB on avg. for each file, and only n = 2 disks in the set, use 128k for the stripe size (make sure you backup any important information first). Just delete the existing set, then make a new one to do this (fastest way vs. online expansion/migration).

Once done, re-test the performance (also, what settings did you use under AJA)?

You could play around with the AJA settings, and see what effect the file sizes of the test data have, and disabling the cache under a write test (do any write tests before you restore any data).

And I have some single Pass-Through Disks having problem. Each time after a long period restart (for example, the Mac Pro shutdown for half day and restart up). The Pass-Through Disks are lost in the configuration and they would not be mounted again. I checked the configuration setting and found that they are reset to NOT as a Pass-Through Disk. What's wrong with the setting??

If what you're doing what I think you're doing with the power management settings, you cannot do a restart with a RAID card. The card's firmware is lost in this situation (the card's firmware isn't stored in the system memory, and there for gets "lost" when the power cycles off and back on for the PCIe slots).

The simple answer, is don't do the above. You have to do a proper shut down, wait say 20 seconds (I'd recommend going over 10 to make sure any memory is clear), then do a Restart.

Also, turn off any power management settings for system sleep (same problem as above). Fine to allow the monitor to shut off, or even allow SATA disks on the ICH (system's SATA ports) to spin down if you wish (HDD power saving features).

Hope this helps.