I will take a silent mac over anything. My spouse has the M1 Air and it was magical. Snappy and yet no noise.
I can't wait for the updated MBP.
I can't wait for the updated MBP.
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Pool: How many customers will loose Apple because M1 migration
- Thread starter victor.espina
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Just because some annoying sites/services don’t support Safari or specifically require Chrome. State government sites and testing services like the Praxis/ETS in the US are especially guilty of this, it’s becoming the new Internet Explorer.
The overwhelming majority of devs on Mac are web developers. Macs are also great for doing all kind of server, HPC, academic and open-source development. There is a good reason why a lot of engineers working for giants like Google or Facebook use a Mac as their primary machine.
The reason I originally switched was the idea that I could run Windows if I wanted to. The situation has changed the last 10 years though in ways that Windows is at least for me irrelevant. I can run anything I want on a Mac and if I ever have the need to run an app that is available only on Windows, I can use my Azure VMs. Of course there are people out there that still have the need to run Windows on their Mac and for those people Apple Silicon is currently a no go. When Microsoft gets its act together and makes an ARM version of Windows publicly available, then things might change, but we are talking here about many years. I wouldn't hold my breath that Microsoft will do what is necessary in the next months..They have other priorities and they don't really care about Windows..
Yes, you are correct that people who have the requirements you do are probably not going to be able to use M1 Macs going forward if they can't find workarounds. But this doesn't jive with your original premise that "all of those" Mac users are going to have the same difficulties you face. Your requirements are very specific and the technologies you use on a "daily" basis are a bit all over the place. It has been a long time since Mac moved to x86. The popularity of Mac has grown, as you've mentioned, and the fact of the matter is Mac now has more native apps than it used to and so the dependency on virtualization for Windows has decreased for many. Like I said before, I could all my .Net Core work on Mac now. That wasn't possible a few years ago.
Experiences vary. There are Windows machines with great build quality, durability, and will work fine for years. There are Mac machines that have poor reliability. And you haven't used a PC in over 6 years now. There has been a lot of changes on both sides of the fence, good and bad, while you've been using your Mac Mini.
But what he said was if you "just do Windows programming" then it really doesn't make sense to use Mac. That's is hardly a "not true" statement. That means you are doing all your work in a VM. I don't think that makes sense either, frankly.
I bought an M1 Mac to use at home and I love it.
But for work, that’s tricky, as I work for a company who’s software is 100% Windows based. We have lots of legacy software still in use.
I’m hoping to eventually be able to run some of it in a VM on my M1. So far we have Parallels but only an ‘insider’ beta version of ARM based Windows, and even that virtualizes x86 (32/64) poorly. The apps I need require quite a bit of GPU power, so I’m not really holding my breath.
But for work, that’s tricky, as I work for a company who’s software is 100% Windows based. We have lots of legacy software still in use.
I’m hoping to eventually be able to run some of it in a VM on my M1. So far we have Parallels but only an ‘insider’ beta version of ARM based Windows, and even that virtualizes x86 (32/64) poorly. The apps I need require quite a bit of GPU power, so I’m not really holding my breath.
I bought an M1 MBA strictly for personal use. I don't like doing personal stuff on my work Mac, which is a 2019 15" MBP that more or less stays docked to my desk work station most of the time. But on the rare occasions where I do get the work Mac out and use it somewhere else, I notice the difference immediately. Especially when it comes to battery drain, keyboard feel, and heat/fan noise. It's still a nice Mac for sure, but my M1 Air blows it out of the water.
I used to use my work Mac as my only Mac and then had a 12.9" iPad Pro as my personal computer. I never saw a reason to have 2 Macs if work already gave me one and REALLY loved using the iPad Pro. But the M1 machines were that much better where I felt like it was time to switch back. I was sure I would regret the change, but I haven't looked back yet. The M1 MBA has been a dream to use so far.
Zero. Running Windows on the Mac was a nice bonus 15 years ago. It also mattered more back then. It also has been nothing but a hassle ever since.
If your main reason for buying a Mac or using a Mac has anything to do with Windows, you're doing it wrong.
I LONG since abandoned the nightmare headache of boot camp, and just get cheap windows PCs for when I need to do something with Windows.
If your main reason for buying a Mac or using a Mac has anything to do with Windows, you're doing it wrong.
I LONG since abandoned the nightmare headache of boot camp, and just get cheap windows PCs for when I need to do something with Windows.
My TV fell on my Intel MacBook, destroying them both. I’ve been on the fence about the M1 migration, so I thought I would try switching to Windows.
I ordered a new M1 Mac within about two days.
I ordered a new M1 Mac within about two days.
Apple will gain far users more than it looses with Apple Silicon. For some with specific workflows it will be problematic, for those who can live & work within the new OS environment there's everything to gain with little to loose.
Apple appears to be listening to it's users, now offering very performant cool running systems and even the potential see the return of relevant ports on the next revision of the MBP. The 2016 design MBP simply turned off a lot pro users as the negatives simply far outweighed the positives, only to be reinforced by poor reliability.
Pretty confident that Apple want's the launch of it's own silicon to be as seamless as possible hence the initial conservative release. Nor is Apple wanting to revert to a time when every portable Mac was under an extended warranty scheme due to poor design. Over all I think the future for the Mac is bright and for the first time since 2015 the value proposition makes sense as does the Mac being better than it's counterparts...
Q-6
Apple appears to be listening to it's users, now offering very performant cool running systems and even the potential see the return of relevant ports on the next revision of the MBP. The 2016 design MBP simply turned off a lot pro users as the negatives simply far outweighed the positives, only to be reinforced by poor reliability.
Pretty confident that Apple want's the launch of it's own silicon to be as seamless as possible hence the initial conservative release. Nor is Apple wanting to revert to a time when every portable Mac was under an extended warranty scheme due to poor design. Over all I think the future for the Mac is bright and for the first time since 2015 the value proposition makes sense as does the Mac being better than it's counterparts...
Q-6
I don't want to start an OS discussion, but Windows is clumsy, Microsoft doesn't seem to have a strategy what to do with it and there is simply no ecosystem like the one Apple is offering. Unless you have specific needs that make you go to Windows, I would suggest thinking a lot about it...
Your workload looks better suited in a Windows setting and thus I'd suggest that or stay on Intel. Windows ARM may work, but your not a majority Mac user and such I assume you use for enjoyment of the desktop and hardware?
I agree. For such a workload a Mac is not suited. At least not an Apple Silicon Mac.
You picked the wrong computer. Hey, I get it. I'm a developer myself and much prefer to use a Mac but you have to use the right tool for the job and a Mac is the wrong tool for your job. Get a Windows computer.
I actually switched to Apple because of M1. And you can run Windows apps in Parallels, works great.
With "you can run windows apps in Parallels" do you mean to run Windows ARM on Parallels?
Well, I've been more than happy and productive during the last 14 years using these "wrong computers"... And I went thru the Windows computers road for many years and let me tell you: I will NEVER get back to that road again if I can help it.
I use Mac because the stability, the built quality, the long life span of their computers, the protection MacOS gives me against virus/malwares and the way MacOS integrates with my other Apple gagdets. My virtualized Windows Server has always run better running in a VM on MacOS than it does as host OS in real PC computers... WAAAAY better.
I know absolutely nothing about what type of work you do so maybe this doesn’t apply, but what I do know about audio and UX design is that you have to adapt to new tech - and if your systems or methods are dated and you’re using Apple products, chances are they’re going to leave you in the dust at some point. Apple will deprecate old methods, software and hardware when something better can replace it.
I think that’s why a lot of windows people hate Apple. On windows machines there’s a good chance your way of doing things will work for a long time so you don’t need to constantly adapt. With Apple, if you’re not on their iteration train, you run the risk of being left behind.
If anything I think Apple has gained quite a bit of new customers since the introduction of the M series chips.
Yes the move to ARM is going to eventually put an end to running intel Windows VMs on a mac, yes its a no-brainer move for Apple and vast majority of the customer base given the performance gains it brings overall, yes I get that and I'm sure the OP gets it too
what I don't get is folks being so dismissive of a workflow that they don't need (or in some cases don't actually grasp the concept of) that they can glibly pronounce to the OP that he's picked the wrong platform, the wrong workflow or for years has somehow been doing it wrong
The only practical means of doing a large part of my job is thru Windows VMs - loads of them - that I can treat as entirely disposable installations
..yet I host them on an intel mac with Parallels as I have done for the best part of the past 10 years, rather than an actual Windows box with VMWare
Why? Cos I not only find it the better experience of those two options in and of itself, but it also means that at a practical level I have access to all my usual MacOS based tools to produce and edit any supporting docs that I might need to hand over to the client to finish the job All on the same single machine I've taken to site
what I don't get is folks being so dismissive of a workflow that they don't need (or in some cases don't actually grasp the concept of) that they can glibly pronounce to the OP that he's picked the wrong platform, the wrong workflow or for years has somehow been doing it wrong
The only practical means of doing a large part of my job is thru Windows VMs - loads of them - that I can treat as entirely disposable installations
..yet I host them on an intel mac with Parallels as I have done for the best part of the past 10 years, rather than an actual Windows box with VMWare
Why? Cos I not only find it the better experience of those two options in and of itself, but it also means that at a practical level I have access to all my usual MacOS based tools to produce and edit any supporting docs that I might need to hand over to the client to finish the job All on the same single machine I've taken to site
The original post starts from the false premise, that "A LOT" of people switched to Intel Macs to run Windows. Many people switched from Windows, but I've seen nothing but anecdotal evidence that they switched to run Windows. Until I'm shown otherwise, I suspect most people gave very little thought to Windows when purchasing a Mac.
The switch to ASi will impact the small, but vocal on forums, group of Mac users who require Windows in their workflow. There is no disputing that.
Had the original post said something along the lines, "For the people who require Windows in their workflow, and use Intel Macs, what percentage will abandon macOS because of the move to ASi?" it is possible the thread may have evolved differently. Who knows.
Right now I have a 2018 Mac Mini, with Windows 10/Parallels, along with a Dell Laptop running Windows 10, on my desk (my work laptop, as I've been 100% working from home for the past year +). I would have no problem having separate Mac and Windows machines on my desk should my workflow call for it. I might even keep the Mini around as a straight up Windows box once I switch to an ASi Mac. For me, there would be a slight inconvenience with such a set up. For others, I can't say.
But the number of Mac users who will abandon the platform because they cannot run Intel Windows on their ASi Macs will be vanishingly small compared to the overall macOS user base.
Cheers.
Bad analogy there. A lot of "more experienced" users have no need to run Windows/Linux at all on their machines, myself included. Futhermore, calling the M1 Macs "a better iPad with MacOS" is disingenuous at best and using Facebook Marketplace ads as an indication of the overall state of the market is like using Dollar General as an example of the retail market as a whole.
I agree with your reply 100%. Also, I don't understand why people are so dismissive about how many windows programmers exists out there doing EXACTLY what we are doing... maybe most of them migrated to Mac just because the cool hardware or the "social status" that owning a Mac gives you in many countries, and it doesn't matter. The fact is I believe there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of us out there around the world, even if Apple doesn't care at all about that reality.
At the end, I believe its true that Apple will gain more users than the ones they would loose because of the transition, but I also believe the real numbers of those walkaways would be higher than most people (including Apple) think.
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